Why can fire types protect themselve from the rain?

[Joshawott]

I had an odd thought while on the trampoline earlier. How come Rain Dance doesn't damage fire types? Think about it; if for example, a Charmander is out in the rain, rain hits tail, oh noez, tail flame goes out...Charmander dies.

So I've been thinking...In Generation V, what if they re-do some of the weather effects a bit? Like have Intense Sunlight deal 1/16th of a Water-type's HP to it (Evaporation dawg), and have Heavy Rain inflict 1/16th of a Fire-type's HP to it.

Of course, to counter-act this, they would make Pokémon with Dry Skin immune to the Sun's normal damaging effect, so it would still reduce the Pokémon's HP by the standard 1/8th.

 

[jhawley]

This always bugged me. I agree entirely.

 

[Miju]

This always bugged me. I agree entirely.

Same here.
That would work nicely into competitive play too.

 

[cowboy dan]

What about rock? Since water erodes rock, I think it should effect those guys too...and ground...

 

[bluehour589]

So in rain would grass and water types gain health

 

[Dopey]

Rain already halves Fire moves..... I don't see any reason why it should hurt Fire types.

That way, Fire types should be immune to Hail.
Although I agree about the Rain-damaging-rock-and-ground part.

 

[Ron ~ デリバード]

Ooh these are some nice ideas! I'd love to see an expansion of weather effects. I mean, it's a pretty big deal in the real world so why not in the Pokémon world? I always thought of Sunny Day as much more of a grass type move, and expanding to Rain aiding Water and Grass types and damaging fire types and Intense Sun damaging Water types etc would be great.

Fair enough it might need the addition of a couple of weather effect-cancelling moves so as not to alter the metagame too much (not that i'd have an issue with that but a lot of people would.) ie 'clear skies' or something to that effect which removes weather effects

 

[Miju]

Rain already halves Fire moves..... I don't see any reason why it should hurt Fire types.

That way, Fire types should be immune to Hail.
Although I agree about the Rain-damaging-rock-and-ground part.

I forgot about rain halving fire type attacks...

 

[Joshawott]

So in rain would grass and water types gain health

That makes sense. Also, for Rock and Ground being damaged. But then Rain Dance would be over-powered...also, Grass could gain health in sun too, and Sunny Day is more associated with plants. I doubt they'd have any health gain though, because for example, Rain Dish Ludicolo with Leftovers...that'd be very scary.

Rain already halves Fire moves..... I don't see any reason why it should hurt Fire types.

That way, Fire types should be immune to Hail.
Although I agree about the Rain-damaging-rock-and-ground part.

Because Fire = Evil.
Good idea about the hail...forgot about that.

So what we have here is:

Rain Dance:
- Inflicts 1/16th damage to fire-types, rock-types and ground-types.

Sunny Day:
- Inflicts 1/16th damage to water-types

Hail:
- Fire-types have immunity.

 

[jhawley]

Rain already halves Fire moves..... I don't see any reason why it should hurt Fire types.

That way, Fire types should be immune to Hail.
Although I agree about the Rain-damaging-rock-and-ground part.

I don't think fire type should be immune to hail in that I think hail is a bit more physicaly forceful sort of like sandstorm if you get where I'm coming from. but I don't think hail should do as much fire as other types I think linking all the weather conditions to currant type effectiveness might be effective.

 

[Dopey]

If weather conditions are linked to type-effectiveness, then Steel and Rock are damaged in Sandstorm, Grass types, Bug and Steel types are damaged in Sunny weather. Awesome idea.

 

[Anthony Von Hertzon]

Rain is already quite powerful, does it really need more?

Rain effects:
* The power of Water-type moves is boosted by 50%.
* The power of Fire-type moves is reduced by 50%.
* The move Thunder has 100% accuracy and can hit through Protect and Detect 30% of the time. Note that this only occurs in Diamond and Pearl versions - Protect always blocks Thunder even in the rain in Pokémon Platinum and Pokémon Battle Revolution.
* The move SolarBeam has a base power of 60.
* The move Weather Ball becomes the Water-type and has a base power of 100.
* The moves Moonlight, Morning Sun, and Synthesis heal only 25% of the users full health.
* Pokémon with the ability Dry Skin heal 12.5% of their max HP every turn.
* Pokémon with the Forecast ability change their type to Water.
* Pokémon with the Hydration ability heal themselves of status effects at the end of every turn.
* Pokémon with the Rain Dish ability heal 6.25% of their max HP every turn.
* Pokémon with the Swift Swim ability double their Speed.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Water moves get a huge boost in the rain and fire moves are cut in half. Fire types already have a huge handicap in the rain that makes them practically useless, why do they need to be MORE handicapped?

Solarbeam also looses power which is an option that some fire types might utilize to hit water types with a super effective, however, in the rain solar beam stands no chance.

Common healing abilities for fire and grass types have also taken a hit in the rain.

4 abilities that benefit directly from the rain, half of them involve healing, so why should grass and water types heal automatically, wouldn't that make those abilities useless? Also, hydration may be a unique ability, but still, it makes rest + rain on manaphy so amazing. Swift swim is just...amazing...and its incredibly hard to stop a Swift Swimming Kingdra, in the rain, who has dragon danced. The thing is a beast, and its not the only one to get Swift Swim. Floatzel can definitely pull off a good sweep with swift swim bonus because it doesn't need all 252 speed EVs to outspeed the fastest of the fast. These EVs can then be put to good use somewhere else.

Plus Rain dish is a good option on Ludicolo because Rain dish + leech seed + left overs= a heck of a lot of health, not to mention Ludicolo's impressive special defense and good typing. It can set up a nice stall, despite the fact that rain teams shouldn't try to stall...

Anyways, your saying that rain should be more powerful by healing water types automatically and damaging fire types? I dont think rain needs any extra love.
--
Although, I've always thought water absorb should absorb some health from the rain.
--
The sun needs some love with more pokes that can gain some speed from the sun, or heal from it or something. Basically we have a handful of grass types that get such advantages which to me seems slightly silly because there isn't a fire type that gets the same advantages.

Pokemon that gain some decent speed in sun:

* Jumpluff - base 110
* Shiftry - base 80
* Victreebel - base 70
* Exeggutor - base 55
* Tropius - base 51
* Bellossom - base 50
* Tangrowth - base 50
* Vileplume - base 50
* Sunflora - base 30

Yea, all grass types, how wonderful.
---
I'm a lover of water types but honestly, rain doesn't need more power.

 

[Every Breaking Wave]

^At the very least, Water Absorb should recoup some health under Rain Dance as well.

 

[Dopey]

Rain is already quite powerful, does it really need more?

Rain effects:
* The power of Water-type moves is boosted by 50%.
* The power of Fire-type moves is reduced by 50%.
* The move Thunder has 100% accuracy and can hit through Protect and Detect 30% of the time. Note that this only occurs in Diamond and Pearl versions - Protect always blocks Thunder even in the rain in Pokémon Platinum and Pokémon Battle Revolution.
* The move SolarBeam has a base power of 60.
* The move Weather Ball becomes the Water-type and has a base power of 100.
* The moves Moonlight, Morning Sun, and Synthesis heal only 25% of the users full health.
* Pokémon with the ability Dry Skin heal 12.5% of their max HP every turn.
* Pokémon with the Forecast ability change their type to Water.
* Pokémon with the Hydration ability heal themselves of status effects at the end of every turn.
* Pokémon with the Rain Dish ability heal 6.25% of their max HP every turn.
* Pokémon with the Swift Swim ability double their Speed.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Water moves get a huge boost in the rain and fire moves are cut in half. Fire types already have a huge handicap in the rain that makes them practically useless, why do they need to be MORE handicapped?

Solarbeam also looses power which is an option that some fire types might utilize to hit water types with a super effective, however, in the rain solar beam stands no chance.

Common healing abilities for fire and grass types have also taken a hit in the rain.

4 abilities that benefit directly from the rain, half of them involve healing, so why should grass and water types heal automatically, wouldn't that make those abilities useless? Also, hydration may be a unique ability, but still, it makes rest + rain on manaphy so amazing. Swift swim is just...amazing...and its incredibly hard to stop a Swift Swimming Kingdra, in the rain, who has dragon danced. The thing is a beast, and its not the only one to get Swift Swim. Floatzel can definitely pull off a good sweep with swift swim bonus because it doesn't need all 252 speed EVs to outspeed the fastest of the fast. These EVs can then be put to good use somewhere else.

Plus Rain dish is a good option on Ludicolo because Rain dish + leech seed + left overs= a heck of a lot of health, not to mention Ludicolo's impressive special defense and good typing. It can set up a nice stall, despite the fact that rain teams shouldn't try to stall...

Anyways, your saying that rain should be more powerful by healing water types automatically and damaging fire types? I dont think rain needs any extra love.
--
Although, I've always thought water absorb should absorb some health from the rain.
--
The sun needs some love with more pokes that can gain some speed from the sun, or heal from it or something. Basically we have a handful of grass types that get such advantages which to me seems slightly silly because there isn't a fire type that gets the same advantages.

Pokemon that gain some decent speed in sun:

* Jumpluff - base 110
* Shiftry - base 80
* Victreebel - base 70
* Exeggutor - base 55
* Tropius - base 51
* Bellossom - base 50
* Tangrowth - base 50
* Vileplume - base 50
* Sunflora - base 30

Yea, all grass types, how wonderful.
---
I'm a lover of water types but honestly, rain doesn't need more power.

Sums up everything that can be said. Rain Dance teams in competitive play are still a pain to counter.

 

[Ron ~ デリバード]

Basically, Sunny Day should always have been a grass move. Not only does it actually make sense (hello photosynthesis) but also the only Pokémon that gain a speed advantage are grass types. So some jiggery pokery could switch that over to a grass move with little fuss, then I'd like to see the addition of another effect move for fire types based on them actually setting the battle area on fire (a la Ash's Charizard vs. Blastoise you know the one)

 

[KedaseDerragar]

Simple explanation: rain is in small enough droplets that it evaporates before it injures the Fire-types (as opposed to a relatively low surface-area, high-volume attack like Water Gun).

 

[Keegman]

I had an odd thought while on the trampoline earlier.

AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO NOTICED THIS?!

 

[Joshawott]

AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO NOTICED THIS?!

My five year old brother wouldn't stop bugging me to go on the trampoline, and Pokémon's on his mind all the time, so we were talking about it, I mentioned Rain Dance...and bam, it hit me. Then my brother did.

 

[Ron ~ デリバード]

trampolines are cool bro

 

[Anthony Von Hertzon]

Basically, Sunny Day should always have been a grass move. Not only does it actually make sense (hello photosynthesis) but also the only Pokémon that gain a speed advantage are grass types. So some jiggery pokery could switch that over to a grass move with little fuss, then I'd like to see the addition of another effect move for fire types based on them actually setting the battle area on fire (a la Ash's Charizard vs. Blastoise you know the one)

Yes, it appears that the plant types have gotten all the ability love from the Sun but very little when it comes to boosts in moves because fire types get it. That, to me, begs for a fire grass type that gets bonus speed in sun. Of course, lets give it good stats too.

I dont think we should go into a totally new fire effect though. It could be done with water types too, make the arena one big pond. But what would it do differently? Would it do the same thing as other effects? Would there be a way to auto induce it? Why would it not become obsolete when compared to rain dance? All kinda important questions.

Sums up everything that can be said. Rain Dance teams in competitive play are still a pain to counter.

Thanks

That makes sense. Also, for Rock and Ground being damaged. But then Rain Dance would be over-powered...also, Grass could gain health in sun too, and Sunny Day is more associated with plants. I doubt they'd have any health gain though, because for example, Rain Dish Ludicolo with Leftovers...that'd be very scary.

Ludicolo already gets a lot of health when you combine rain dish, left overs, and leech seed help.

If Rain hurt fire, rock/ground, and auto healed grass and water rain would be far to over powered and there would then be no hope for a non-legendary auto rain poke, which personally, I'm crossing my fingers for.

Because Fire = Evil.
Good idea about the hail...forgot about that.

So what we have here is:

Rain Dance:
- Inflicts 1/16th damage to fire-types, rock-types and ground-types.

O_O

Sunny Day:
- Inflicts 1/16th damage to water-types

Maybe, but then it kinda makes rain seem like the lesser weather because its the only one that cant inflict damage.

Hail:

- Fire-types have immunity.

?_? I dont think so, hail is like a blizzard, I just cant see a fire type being immune to a blizzard.

I mentioned Rain Dance...and bam, it hit me. Then my brother did.

ROFL