Why do Europeans kill over soccer?

[Girafarig_Magcargo]

http://voanews.com/english/2007-02-03-voa17.cfm

I've always found it extremely strange that Europeans have such a propensity for sports violence. It always seems that Europeans top anything Americans when it comes to rioting. I find it a little hypocritical when Europeans call Americans racist or violent when their soccer fans are far worse than us.

 

[Dj Travis]

http://voanews.com/english/2007-02-03-voa17.cfm

I've always found it extremely strange that Europeans have such a propensity for sports violence. It always seems that Europeans top anything Americans when it comes to rioting. I find it a little hypocritical when Europeans call Americans racist or violent when their soccer fans are far worse than us.

They seems to like it, Were I live, we have a team that is famous for making havoc at other stadions. The team is called "F.C. Antwerp". I believe they banned 56 supporters last from entering the stadion.

The big problem in this is actually the UK, most of the problems come from there, I watched a program on a channel called "Canvas". The program was about WK 2006. An undercover TV team from the BBC went there to film everything...

And they're...just not normal, I mean come on, they stole a flag from a brazilian supporter an wanted to put it on fire. And they beat up the German Police and the portugees people after England got defeated by Portugal.

 

[Doctor Oak]

This is the stupidest topic ever.

WAAH,WAAH, A FEW DOZEN PEOPLE BEAT PEOPLE UP WHO ARE FANS OF A SPORT WITH MILLIONS OF FANS, WAAH, WAAH, EVERYONE IN EUROPE'S A RACIST/BIGGOT/THUG, WAAH, WAAH.

 

[the gadfly]

It all boils down to drunkenness and nationalism. We Americans have to deal with drunkenness, but since the perpetrators of violence are too drunk to do real harm, they're easily dealt with. Nationalism isn't a problem because none of the sports we're interested in are international as of yet. The only major U.S. sport that comes close to being international is basketball. And we beat up our team when they don't come back home with a gold medal.

 

[Girafarig_Magcargo]

This is the stupidest topic ever.

WAAH,WAAH, A FEW DOZEN PEOPLE BEAT PEOPLE UP WHO ARE FANS OF A SPORT WITH MILLIONS OF FANS, WAAH, WAAH, EVERYONE IN EUROPE'S A RACIST/BIGGOT/THUG, WAAH, WAAH.

My real issue is that Europeans love to stereotype Americans as violent cowboys shooting people up, yet Europeans have numerous instances of crowd crushing, fighting, and racial attacks over a game. Europeans lose the privilege to call Americans narrow-minded or bigoted when soccer fans make monkey noises and other racial epithets towards black players.

 

[GrnMarvl14]

My real issue is that Europeans love to stereotype Americans as violent cowboys shooting people up, yet Europeans have numerous instances of crowd crushing, fighting, and racial attacks over a game. Europeans lose the privilege to call Americans narrow-minded or bigoted when soccer fans make monkey noises and other racial epithets towards black players.

Do we REALLY need to debate racial riots? Because, just off the top of my head, we've got entire 60s, the 20s, and the 90s as examples of racial riots in the US. Those entire decades were marked by racial riots.

As for SPORTS riots? Look at ANY big game's ending in any northern town. ESPECIALLY in the 90s. There, they rioted BECAUSE THEY WON. That's just stupid.

Europeans aren't any better than Americans. Americans aren't any better than Europeans. End of story.

 

[the gadfly]

As for SPORTS riots? Look at ANY big game's ending in any northern town. ESPECIALLY in the 90s. There, they rioted BECAUSE THEY WON. That's just stupid.

It's not a phenomenon confined to northern towns. I remember a riot here in L.A. after the Lakers won the NBA championship. Shaq bought the LAPD a new patrol car to replace the one burned in the riot.

 

[Girafarig_Magcargo]

Do we REALLY need to debate racial riots? Because, just off the top of my head, we've got entire 60s, the 20s, and the 90s as examples of racial riots in the US. Those entire decades were marked by racial riots.

As for SPORTS riots? Look at ANY big game's ending in any northern town. ESPECIALLY in the 90s. There, they rioted BECAUSE THEY WON. That's just stupid.

Europeans aren't any better than Americans. Americans aren't any better than Europeans. End of story.

We haven't any major racial riots since the LA riots of the 90s. What I was really referring to, though, was the rampant racism exhibited towards minority players in Europe. We may have discussions about whether there are enough black coaches, mangers, etc. but we don't have fans throwing bananas and making monkey noises at black people. Now we do have some crap after championships, etc, but I can't remember a time when we had crushes at stadiums or massive brawls between fans (players are another thing entirely).

 

[Doctor Oak]

You are saying this like it is a daily occurance and something every single fan is a part of.

They're just as rare a case as some nutter going into a school in America with their legally bought fuck-off shotgun and blasting away a few kids.

 

[Girafarig_Magcargo]

You are saying this like it is a daily occurance and something every single fan is a part of.

They're just as rare a case as some nutter going into a school in America with their legally bought fuck-off shotgun and blasting away a few kids.

It's more common than that. The World Cup had numerous problems with rowdy fans, especially between national matches between European nations and African or Asian nations.

 

[GrnMarvl14]

We haven't any major racial riots since the LA riots of the 90s. What I was really referring to, though, was the rampant racism exhibited towards minority players in Europe. We may have discussions about whether there are enough black coaches, mangers, etc. but we don't have fans throwing bananas and making monkey noises at black people. Now we do have some crap after championships, etc, but I can't remember a time when we had crushes at stadiums or massive brawls between fans (players are another thing entirely).

On the subject of recent race riots:

2001: Cincinnati riots: In a reaction to the acquittal of Steven Roach after the fatal shooting of an unarmed young Black male, Timothy Thomas, during a foot pursuit, riots broke out over the span of a few days.

We DO have fans making various comments towards black players. It's just not heavily publicized. It's called "old news".

Massive brawls between fans? That NEVER happens in America.

 

[RC Right Back At Ya]

Because its worth it.

 

[Girafarig_Magcargo]

On the subject of recent race riots:

That was nothing compared to the riots France has seen, but we're getting off topic. I'm talking about racism among sports fans, not race riots.

We DO have fans making various comments towards black players. It's just not heavily publicized. It's called "old news".

Massive brawls between fans? That NEVER happens in America.

Me previously:

massive brawls between fans (players are another thing entirely). Yesterday 06:45 PM

Your quote:

and a massive 10-minute scrum during the fourth quarter in which state troopers had to get involved, but no fans entered the field

Oh, what a useful tool reading is.

 

[GrnMarvl14]

Oh, what a useful tool reading is.

Reading's for fools and you know it.

However, if you'll recall, there was a big NBA brawl a few years ago that involved both fans and players (originally started between a fan and a player, and expanded from there).

Some notorious moments include: a number of highly visible, large-scale fan brawls on national television during the San Francisco 49ers game in November of 1997; the throwing of snowballs and ice balls at the Dallas Cowboys and NFL officials in a December game in 1989

But the reason you see "so many" European brawls (in reality, I can only think of one in the past few years) has more to do with what gets on the air in America. And, usually, it's just people being a little too passionate about their sports (which seems to be more of a bar thing in America).

 

[inkysquid12]

Actually, a lot of it's not about passion for the sport at all. The whole thing is based around 'getting a rep' or 'defending your patch'. So, as well as brawls at internationals, there are also brawls when two teams from the same country play. It's just a lot of angry and insecure young men justifying themselves through violence. The thing is it is now such a smooth operation. 'Firms' arrange to meet at certain points at certain times to fight. It's only such a big issue because it snowballs. One man looking for a fight, you see all the time. It's just they all find each other because they know that they are guaranteed a fight every week when their team plays.

 

[the gadfly]

Actually, a lot of it's not about passion for the sport at all. The whole thing is based around 'getting a rep' or 'defending your patch'. So, as well as brawls at internationals, there are also brawls when two teams from the same country play. It's just a lot of angry and insecure young men justifying themselves through violence. The thing is it is now such a smooth operation. 'Firms' arrange to meet at certain points at certain times to fight. It's only such a big issue because it snowballs. One man looking for a fight, you see all the time. It's just they all find each other because they know that they are guaranteed a fight every week when their team plays.

It's actually a pleasure to get someone here who can make an intelligent post. Inkysquid12, if you made an introduction in the Garden Grotto, I'm sorry I missed it.

What you've described sounds an awful lot like the gangs here in L.A. and elsewhere in the U.S. establishing their turf, defending it against outsiders and demanding respect. The difference here is that gangs are usually based on drug trafficking and not the local football team.

Looking at it that way, Europe's football hooliganism and our gangs are mostly about young people establishing an identity and gaining whatever respect that brings. As well as forming a community of sorts. Unfortunately, they've chosen the easiest route to respect, namely fear.

 

[inkysquid12]

You're right, and unfortunately we get the drug gangs AND the hooligans over here (albiet without the guns, thankfully).

I think it's also fair enough to say that most people in gangs call them 'brotherhoods' or something similar, while most people not in gangs would call them 'surrogate families'. I think most REAL gang members are looking for people to care for and protect like they would their own family, and on that level i can almost sympathise with them. But join a bowling team!