Why do people claim Haunter and Larvitar were Ash's Pokemon?

[Cybersai]

Is it just me, or is there some confusion about whether Ash "owned" Haunter or Larvitar?

In Haunter's case, Ash never used a Pokeball to capture it, and Haunter just followed Ash. By that logic, Haunter was the same as Jigglypuff or Spoink, a Pokemon that followed the main character. While Ash did intend to use Haunter for battle, there was no indication it belonged to him and Ash had no Pokeball for it.

In Larvitar's case, Ash had a full team of 6 when he had its egg. Larvitar was a 7th Pokemon but didn't go to Oak's because Ash never captured it. Again, its basically the same thing as Ash taking care of a filler Pokemon, only difference is Larvitar lasted for about 7 episodes instead of just 1.

So why do people keep bringing these two up? Ash has only ever released 4 Pokemon:

Butterfree, Primeape, Pidgeot and Lapras.

Haunter and Larvitar were never captured or owned by Ash. What are your thoughts on this?

 

[Snake Bandage]

He didn't own them, but they were Ash's close companions for however long they stayed with him so I guess that's why people are confused.

 

[Weedle Mchairybug]

In Haunter's case, Ash never used a Pokeball to capture it, and Haunter just followed Ash. By that logic, Haunter was the same as Jigglypuff or Spoink, a Pokemon that followed the main character. While Ash did intend to use Haunter for battle, there was no indication it belonged to him and Ash had no Pokeball for it.

Well, that, as well as the fact that it never appeared on "Spurt!"

Also, if you really want to get technical, Misty never used a pokeball to capture Togepi, and yet, despite the fact that it was never put in a pokeball, people (even you, Cybercubed) considered it to be Her Pokemon.

Plus, sometimes placing a pokemon in your pokeball doesn't even make it your own pokemon. I mean, Vulpix, for example, was placed in a pokeball by Brock, and yet... Brock stated in it's release episode that it never was his to begin with, despite the fact that he used a pokeball to capture it.

I'm not saying Haunter WAS owned by Ash (they kinda made it clear it wasn't owned, since he always ducks out easily at the last possible second.), however, the "not being contained in a pokeball" excuse shouldn't really be a valid reason as Togepi was also that, and was still considered Misty's pokemon despite that, among other things.

In Larvitar's case, Ash had a full team of 6 when he had its egg. Larvitar was a 7th Pokemon but didn't go to Oak's because Ash never captured it. Again, its basically the same thing as Ash taking care of a filler Pokemon, only difference is Larvitar lasted for about 7 episodes instead of just 1.

Damian had... what? over a hundred pokemon in one party, none of which were sent to the donator of the pokedex (be it Oak or one of the Nurse Joys), all of which he owned?

Also, I don't think they would have had Larvitar appear on Spurt if it truly wasn't Ash's pokemon (They didn't allow Haunter in), as it was a memorial opening dedicated to all of the pokemon he owned.

Anyways, Lapras was a similar case (captured only for Ash to try and return it to it's pod.). So, since he was clearly intending to return Lapras to it's pod, that means that it was never his to begin with, whether he caught it with a pokeball or not (if people used that rationale for Larvitar to state it's not his pokemon, the same can be said for Lapras.)

So why do people keep bringing these two up? Ash has only ever released 4 Pokemon:

Butterfree, Primeape, Pidgeot and Lapras.

Haunter and Larvitar were never captured or owned by Ash. What are your thoughts on this?

Well, Haunter I can agree with (though only because of Spurt never having it appear.), but Larvitar, he definitely battled with it, and besides which, it even appeared in Spurt, which is dedicated to pokemon that Ash and Co. Owned or had owned.

 

[Geodude]

Damian had... what? over a hundred pokemon in one party, none of which were sent to the donator of the pokedex (be it Oak or one of the Nurse Joys), all of which he owned?

Either a sight gag or another one of those First Season Rookie Mistakes by the Powers That Be.

 

[Piplup]

Larvitar isn't Ash's
Why did it appear in "Ready Go" and "Spurt"? because it was a very close friend to Ash and kind of traveled together with the group for a short amount of time (about 7 episodes)
Ash had 6 so he couldn't officially have it even if he and Larvi wanted
Ash took an egg to move it somewhere - the egg wasn't given to him but he simply took it to bring it somewhere... but the egg hatched and the mother was found so instead bring Larvi where he was supposed to - he simply let it return to its mother

Also "Glory Day" showed all of Ash's Poké too just like "Spurt" - Larvi didn't appear there

Haunter is even more stupid to think Ash "caught" than Larvi
For Misty and Togi- you can't compare 200+ constantly out of ball like Pika Pokémon to less than 10 episodes Poké... it's just stupid to say Misty didn't own Togepi (and while we can't just assume things... I like to imagine she let it in a ball but it decided to stay outside like Pika)

And Brock did own Vulpix - it was officially given to him
If Brock did say that (I can't remember) all he meant was that despite how Vulpix was officially his Poké now- personally he still saw it as Susie's and took care of it for her with the intention to return it to her eventually

 

[Weedle Mchairybug]

Larvitar isn't Ash's
Why did it appear in "Ready Go" and "Spurt"? because it was a very close friend to Ash and kind of traveled together with the group for a short amount of time (about 7 episodes)

That doesn't make any sense considering how the description of the opening was that it was dedicated to all the Pokemon Ash and the cast at that time have ever owned. Not befriended, not merely encountered, but actually OWNED. Besides, Jigglypuff was a close companion of Ash (and Snubbull was a close companion of Team Rocket), and the last time I checked, they were never in the opening.

Ash had 6 so he couldn't officially have it even if he and Larvi wanted

Ash took an egg to move it somewhere - the egg wasn't given to him but he simply took it to bring it somewhere... but the egg hatched and the mother was found so instead bring Larvi where he was supposed to - he simply let it return to its mother

He did a similar thing with Lapras as well. He said he was going to return it to his pod. Heck, he even fulfilled his promise with it by the end of the OI saga. How he got Lapras was barely any different than how he got Larvitar.

Also "Glory Day" showed all of Ash's Poké too just like "Spurt" - Larvi didn't appear there

I won't comment, as I think it's a writers oversight (similar to Ash not remembering the "P1 Grand prix" back in the Tyrogue episode, despite having won that competition and loaning his Primeape to Anthony for training, which implied that he also never owned Primeape in his life, or that he still had Primeape.).

Haunter is even more stupid to think Ash "caught" than Larvi

Actually, I said that Haunter WASN'T caught by Ash. I suggest you re-read my previous post.

For Misty and Togi- you can't compare 200+ constantly out of ball like Pika Pokémon to less than 10 episodes Poké... it's just stupid to say Misty didn't own Togepi (and while we can't just assume things... I like to imagine she let it in a ball but it decided to stay outside like Pika)

Watch me. And besides, even IF she had caught it off screen, I'm pretty sure they would have implied that she had a pokeball for it (you know, similar to the whole "Meowth's pokeball" hint in Dues and Don'ts.). Heck, have Misty say "oh, I have togepi's pokeball right here" when searching her purse. As far as I know, they never stated or even implied that she placed Togepi in a pokeball.

And Brock did own Vulpix - it was officially given to him
If Brock did say that (I can't remember) all he meant was that despite how Vulpix was officially his Poké now- personally he still saw it as Susie's and took care of it for her with the intention to return it to her eventually

You know, some fans actually took it to mean that he actually NEVER owned Vulpix to begin with. Heck, on TV.com, someone said that "the only fire pokemon he ever had was Vulpix, and that was never even his pokemon."

Heck, there was a debate a while back in Bulbapedia saying that Brock's Vulpix should be changed to "Suzie's Vulpix" due to a. it being her original owner, and b. Brock's statement about it never being his pokemon.

 

[Piplup]

I don't care what stupid fans say on fan sites... you can't prove anything with sites like Bulbapedia or TVcom

With your logic Ash probably also owned Larvi's mother and the pink Butter
And seriously Jiggly/Snubbull weren't close to anyone of the main characters... you can't compare that to Ash/Larvi

Lapras was caught officially - simply with the intention to bring it back when/if they find its group
But for the whole time Lapras was officiailly his Poké
Larvi wasn't like that at all - Ash just agreed to move its egg (and than the Poké itself after it hatched) from one place to another... on the way he found the mother so he just let it go with her instead to that place
Larvi was never caught and wasn't officially his by any way
Just a VERY close friend and part of the group for a limited time

 

[PDL]

There hasn't been much a definition to what makes a Pokémon owned by anyone.

In the case of Haunter, it just followed the group and did it's own thing. Ash assumed that he had control over it, but Haunter joined him on it's own accord and it's own agenda. It didn't want to have any part in battling on Ash's team. It just wanted to have fun and to make people laugh with it's practical jokes.

In the case of Togepi and Larvitar, they both hatched under the care of Misty/Ash and they viewed their "trainers" as parental figures rather then as trainers. It isn't really the same sort of relationship of "Pokémon and Trainer" that is usually forged. It's more similar to "Pokémon and Guardian". When they realized that they didn't need to be with their "Trainers" (either they found their real parent, like Larvitar, or found a higher calling, as with Togepi/Togetic), they left them.

With Vulpix, Suzie willingly gave Vulpix to Brock because that's what she thought would make Vulpix happy. It is a part of the goal of a Breeder to look out for the well-being and happiness of the Pokémon in question. Suzie thought that Vulpix would be happy under Brock's care. After a time, Brock returned Vulpix to Suzie. Both exchanges were made so it was for the well-being of Vulpix.

While we are on the subject of pseudo-relationships, what about the Pokémon that Team Rocket (Jessie, James and Meowth) have used? These would include:

Rental Pokémon (Charizard, Blastoise, Venusaur)
Pokémon that were captured/bought only to be released in the same episode (Magikarp, Hoppip)
Pokémon that were borrowed from Team Rocket (The orgainization)'s personal stash (Charizard, Aggron, Machamp, Kingler, Rhydon, Delibird)

Do they count themselves among Team Rocket's roster?

 

[Piplup]

Rental Pokémon (Charizard, Blastoise, Venusaur)
Pokémon that were borrowed from Team Rocket (The orgainization)'s personal stash (Charizard, Aggron, Machamp, Kingler, Rhydon, Delibird)

I'd mention such Poké as "Poké they used but weren't really their's" (like any other case of rental Poké like that "ultimate test" and the summer school)

Pokémon that were captured/bought only to be released in the same episode (Magikarp, Hoppip)

Kinda like Ash's Beedrill and Raticate
I think such Poké technically count - they were officialy their's
But it's simply that no one care about them since they were for a few seconds and left... and didn't even interact much with their trainer... not to mention form a bond with them

 

[Weedle Mchairybug]

I don't care what stupid fans say on fan sites... you can't prove anything with sites like Bulbapedia or TVcom

Bulbapedia is a wiki, not a fansite. Also, if you don't care about what fans say on fansites, why are you even on here? I mean, you shouldn't even be on here, since the fans beliefs will only bring you to insanity. If you don't like what the fans say, don't even join forums.

With your logic Ash probably also owned Larvi's mother and the pink Butter
And seriously Jiggly/Snubbull weren't close to anyone of the main characters... you can't compare that to Ash/Larvi

Ash wasn't even close to the Pink butterfree or Tyrannitar. I mean, the only thing he did for them was give Butterfree to her, and Larvitar to her.

And Jiggly/Snubbull were definitly close to the characters (if they weren't, why did they even follow them? I mean, it was thanks to Ash and co. that Jigglypuff was able to even SING. it followed them aroud, especially since they helped it, and plus, it even helped them on several occasions [heck, it's the one who saved Ash from Aerodactyl, and the reason why Ash caught Snorlax.].)

Since you feel that Larvitar only got in due to it being close to Ash, Jigglypuff should have gotten in also, by that same logic.

Lapras was caught officially - simply with the intention to bring it back when/if they find its group
But for the whole time Lapras was officiailly his Poké
Larvi wasn't like that at all - Ash just agreed to move its egg (and than the Poké itself after it hatched) from one place to another... on the way he found the mother so he just let it go with her instead to that place
Larvi was never caught and wasn't officially his by any way
Just a VERY close friend and part of the group for a limited time

Since people used that rationale to say how Larvitar isn't Ash's pokemon, then, Poke ball or not, it's NOT Ash's Pokemon.

And anyways, there was the off-chance that Larvitar's location had changed (remember, sometimes reserves relocate animals, or in this case, pokemon, to different places for reasons like illness, needs of transfer, and other things.), for all we knew, it also could have died. Heck, the location of Tyrannitar is known as it's known location (meaning, it's possible to have been relocated to another preserve, if it's still alive, that is.).

Stop acting like Poke-ball=officially a trainers. Heck, Beedril was caught by Ash, and yet it's officially Casey's despite throwing HIS Park ball at it and capturing it. A similar case with brock capturing one of Ash's Tauros and it still was considered Ash's Tauros nonetheless.

 

[MetaRobo]

Bulbapedia is a wiki, not a fansite. Also, if you don't care about what fans say on fansites, why are you even on here? I mean, you shouldn't even be on here, since the fans beliefs will only bring you to insanity. If you don't like what the fans say, don't even join forums.

Dramatic irony, much? But to the point, fansites and even wikis are not absolute truth, but the opinions of one or a collaborative group of people who attempt to work these things out. Thus, they should be taken with a grain of salt. Do I even have to bring up the overused "flat earth" analogy?

And Jiggly/Snubbull were definitly close to the characters (if they weren't, why did they even follow them? I mean, it was thanks to Ash and co. that Jigglypuff was able to even SING. it followed them aroud, especially since they helped it, and plus, it even helped them on several occasions [heck, it's the one who saved Ash from Aerodactyl, and the reason why Ash caught Snorlax.].)

Since you feel that Larvitar only got in due to it being close to Ash, Jigglypuff should have gotten in also, by that same logic.

Why should Jigglypuff appear in Spurt? Ash never actually cared for it to the same level as the other Pokemon.

Stop acting like Poke-ball=officially a trainers. Heck, Beedril was caught by Ash, and yet it's officially Casey's despite throwing HIS Park ball at it and capturing it. A similar case with brock capturing one of Ash's Tauros and it still was considered Ash's Tauros nonetheless.

So you're suggesting that Pokemon ownership cannot be given away to someone? If that was the case, the trading mechanism would fail completely.

Anyways, the issue of Larvitar is semantic nonsense in my opinion. Why does it matter so much?

 

[Weedle Mchairybug]

Dramatic irony, much? But to the point, fansites and even wikis are not absolute truth, but the opinions of one or a collaborative group of people who attempt to work these things out. Thus, they should be taken with a grain of salt. Do I even have to bring up the overused "flat earth" analogy?

Hate to break it to you, but the anime series (nevermind the entire franchise), should ALSO be taken with a grain of salt (I mean, they contradict themselves entirely, in both the Games AND the Anime, so we shouldn't take them seriously.)

Why should Jigglypuff appear in Spurt? Ash never actually cared for it to the same level as the other Pokemon.

It obviously was cared enough to be allowed to follow them, and in certain cases, even request for its help.

So you're suggesting that Pokemon ownership cannot be given away to someone? If that was the case, the trading mechanism would fail completely.

One, Ash just HANDED the ball to Casey, he never actually gave full ownership to it (Pikachu of TV.com said that the trading machines are most likely the only way for a pokemon to have full ownership transferred to another, as it's likely firewalled.). TWO. even if he did, I am in no way suggesting that Trading mechanisms fail completely.

Anyways, the issue of Larvitar is semantic nonsense in my opinion. Why does it matter so much?

Why does the entire franchise matter so much to everyone? because it matters. people have to fight for what they believe in. people want answers. they want a lot of things to be understood.

 

[Pokemaster Justin]

They were his Pokemon for a time, granted they weren't "captured" into being his Pokemon.

However, once they met the destinatino/conclusion of their storyline they mutually parted ways. How can you contest that Haunter was not Ash's Pokemon? Just because he didn't capture it in the Pokeball? In Indigo he befriended most of his Pokemon such as the cast with Haunter.

So Scott while they were only his Pokemon for a very short time peroid, they were his "friends" they weren't captured.

 

[FabuVinny]

For the record, Bulbapedia classifies Larvitar and Haunter as "unofficial" in Ash's Pokémon listing. Mainly because "befriended" resulted in repeated attempts to put the movie legends on his article.

He definately took responsibility of Larvitar and Haunter followed him for a Gym Battle but he never actually owned them. It honestly isn't that big of a deal unless you really have to get technical for a collaborative Pokémon resource.

 

[MetaRobo]

Hate to break it to you, but the anime series (nevermind the entire franchise), should ALSO be taken with a grain of salt (I mean, they contradict themselves entirely, in both the Games AND the Anime, so we shouldn't take them seriously.)

Exactly! Everything should be taken with a grain of salt! That's the essence of science! In fact, so should your U.S. American Global Boycott.

It obviously was cared enough to be allowed to follow them, and in certain cases, even request for its help.

It wasn't following them out of close bonds. It was a freelance artist that happened to show up at convenient times.

One, Ash just HANDED the ball to Casey, he never actually gave full ownership to it (Pikachu of TV.com said that the trading machines are most likely the only way for a pokemon to have full ownership transferred to another, as it's likely firewalled.). TWO. even if he did, I am in no way suggesting that Trading mechanisms fail completely.

Why do you rely so much on other people think? Anyways, Ash was the original trainer of the Beedrill. That is not the same as the current trainer. If the Beedrill still belonged to Ash, Casey would be guilty of theft. Is she?

Why does the entire franchise matter so much to everyone? because it matters. people have to fight for what they believe in. people want answers. they want a lot of things to be understood.

As long as it doesn't escalate into Serious Business, I'm fine with that, I guess.

 

[Cybersai]

He definately took responsibility of Larvitar and Haunter followed him for a Gym Battle but he never actually owned them. It honestly isn't that big of a deal unless you really have to get technical for a collaborative Pokémon resource.

I know, it just bugs me when people say, "Ash released Haunter/Larvitar" when he never really owned them to begin with.

Yeah, I understand. Technically its the same as Max owning Jirachi or May owning Manaphy in the movies, that's kinda like what Larvitar was to Ash.

 

[Geodude]

Hate to break it to you, but the anime series (nevermind the entire franchise), should ALSO be taken with a grain of salt (I mean, they contradict themselves entirely, in both the Games AND the Anime, so we shouldn't take them seriously.)

"Hi kettle, anyone ever tell you you're black?" asked the pot.

 

[Shift]

One, Ash just HANDED the ball to Casey, he never actually gave full ownership to it (Pikachu of TV.com said that the trading machines are most likely the only way for a pokemon to have full ownership transferred to another, as it's likely firewalled.). TWO. even if he did, I am in no way suggesting that Trading mechanisms fail completely.

What about all the Pokemon people give to you in the games? (Yes, the games, okay?) When a Pokemon is given to the trainer, the OT becomes the reciever, with no indication of the giver having once owned it. Who can say that wasn't the case for Beedrill? Besides, a firewall? Really?

 

[Cybersai]

Why do you people keep replying to Weedle? All it does is cause walls of text that make absolutely no sense.

 

[Piplup]

Why do you people keep replying to Weedle? All it does is cause walls of text that make absolutely no sense.

Yeah but you're the one keep making these threads... did we really need this thread? I doubt whatever will be said here would change the opinion of these who insist to invent Ash owned them