Why does the dub bother keeping any music from the Japanese version at all?

[matt0044]

It's just that it's usually all or nothing with the soundtrack of these kinds of made-for-TV dubs yet they actually bother to retain certain pieces by Shinji Miyazaki. Why? Do they like the Japanese music? Why make dub exclusive music in this case?

I'm just legitimately confused by this. I'm not trying to stir up and hostility, just looking for a clear answer.

 

[MarshiyanMisutaa]

Better question would be "Why does the dub bother changing any music from the Japanese version at all?"

 

[kantoskies]

4Kids liked their own music better than the original, but I guess they didn't want to bother scoring entire episodes? Which doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but then again neither did a lot of the stuff 4Kids did.

And I'm guessing that TPCi had to keep contracts or something when they took over, or felt they didn't want to make the dub too different than the 4Kids one (which explains why they used a lot of the 4Kids stock early on) or something like that. As to why they're still replacing music is anyone's guess. It seems like they know most fans (who care about the music) prefer all of the originals with no dub stuff, which explains why the first five Best Wishes and the first two (hopefully more!) XY episodes had no dub music, and maybe there's some sort of contract still lingering around that requires a certain amount of dub music to be used in a season?

There hasn't been much of a set pattern and the dub likes to go back and forth with many things, so it's no wonder that they haven't been consistent with the background music.

 

[matt0044]

Better question would be "Why does the dub bother changing any music from the Japanese version at all?"

Yes, that'd be preferable but I'm asking why they use some and not all so inconsistently. That question's for another thread.

 

[Pikafanboy]

Openings have to be different because the networks demand more time for commercials here, hence 30 second openings and no unique ending theme. Any vocal song is changed to a dub only song or instrumental music just so everything is in the same language. As for background music that's just instrumental in the original I don't know, maybe they think their own music is more fitting than the original in some places, and in others they think the original really is the best. I didn't mind it when 4Kids did it because I loved their music, but I'm not a fan of the new company's music, so I wish they would leave the music alone.

 

[Sweenix]

Better question would be "Why does the dub bother changing any music from the Japanese version at all?"

That's a little excessive, no?

It's one thing to keep the original bgm, but do you honestly think TPCI will keep the Japanese opening?

 

[matt0044]

Better question would be "Why does the dub bother changing any music from the Japanese version at all?"

That's a little excessive, no?

It's one thing to keep the original bgm, but do you honestly think TPCI will keep the Japanese opening?

They could edit them down to size. Nicktoons had that done with Dragon Ball Z Kai's opening.

 

[Meowstic]

Better question would be "Why does the dub bother changing any music from the Japanese version at all?"

That's a little excessive, no?

It's one thing to keep the original bgm, but do you honestly think TPCI will keep the Japanese opening?

They could edit them down to size. Nicktoons had that done with Dragon Ball Z Kai's opening.

But that's FUNimation we're talking about, a completely different studio than TPCi, since FUNimation almost always retains the original openings (unless it's on television, which is condensed to 30 seconds) and keeps the original BGM.

 

[matt0044]

But that's FUNimation we're talking about, a completely different studio than TPCi, since FUNimation almost always retains the original openings (unless it's on television, which is condensed to 30 seconds) and keeps the original BGM.

And why does TPCi have to discard some music tracks from the JPN version?

If by chance it's a matter of cash, they're THE POKEMON COMPANY INTERNATIONAL! They should have money to burn. FUNimation mostly does direct-to-DVD releases and aside from DBZ, it's hardly seems to be an issue.

 

[Nymphia]

But that's FUNimation we're talking about, a completely different studio than TPCi, since FUNimation almost always retains the original openings (unless it's on television, which is condensed to 30 seconds) and keeps the original BGM.

And why does TPCi have to discard some music tracks from the JPN version?

If by chance it's a matter of cash, they're THE POKEMON COMPANY INTERNATIONAL! They should have money to burn. FUNimation mostly does direct-to-DVD releases and aside from DBZ, it's hardly seems to be an issue.

Sorry, but this statement TPCi has money to burn is a little excessive. One thing is that TPCi is a multi-million dollar franchise, another thing is that they can afford it.

Funimation is a company who mainly does dub anime that are only aired on DVD or online. TPCiis acompany that distributes a dub that has to distribute to many parts of the world to air in a TV.

If TPCi (4kids is a different story) don't use the japanese music is for a reason. Funimation, a company who airs what the US call "anime" is not comparable to a series like pokemon who is advertised as a "cartoon".

And the series is not that profitable. Forexample, Origins aired online and not on TV.

 

[matt0044]

If TPCi (4kids is a different story) don't use the japanese music is for a reason. Funimation, a company who airs what the US call "anime" is not comparable to a series like pokemon who is advertised as a "cartoon".

What difference does that make?

 

[FANG-TAN]

Yeah, certain types of music aren't limited to what westerners coin Japanese animation as "anime" or a "cartoon". Seriously, what difference does it make? A proper localization would do an English take on the Japanese openings and endings, for example, and it's just as valid as simply keeping the Japanese song as-is. Could you tell that song was made for an "anime" in that case? Would people really care that it came from another country if they were able to figure that out? How on Earth does one discern certain pieces of background music and theme songs as "oh, this belongs in an anime and this belongs in a cartoon" to begin with?

If you're going with the minority "4Kids and Saban" practice of "dubbing" anime (which is pretty much archaic), then re-score the entire thing. If you're going for the modern conventional method of dubbing an anime that companies such as FUNimation and Media Blasters employ (which works, would would have thought?), keep the soundtrack as-is. International marketing is really not a valid excuse not to go with the latter either - the English dub of Digimon, for example, is the only dub of Digimon that uses its own music, while every other version retained the original Japanese music and proved to be just as popular as the English counterpart in their respective countries.

Being willing to keep certain pieces of Japanese music yet still re-scoring half of the soundtrack is half-assed and nonsensical, and has no real good reasoning behind it that I can think of, especially from a really well-off company like TPCi. The niche company of the anime and video game industry, Nippon Ichi Software America, cannot afford to dub the anime they bring over in English because they focus on niche titles for a niche market, so simply subbing it is affordable enough. In fact, many anime companies that aren't FUNi are now employing the use of "sub-only" releases because it's financially viable for them, since dubbing is an expensive process. Seeing a company that thrives on pretty much a multi-million dollar franchise - and can afford an English dub - acting half-assed about the music with no good excuse really makes me steam.

 

[Lord_Mewtwo]

the English dub of Digimon, for example, is the only dub of Digimon that uses its own music, while every other version retained the original Japanese music and proved to be just as popular as its English counterpart in their respective countries.

Actually the French, Dutch, Czech (only the first season), Polish, Danish, Norwegian, Swedish & Hebrew dubs based their dubs off of the English, and thus have the dub music. The Brazilian Portuguese dub dubbed the US opening, but kept the Japanese BGM.

 

[FANG-TAN]

the English dub of Digimon, for example, is the only dub of Digimon that uses its own music, while every other version retained the original Japanese music and proved to be just as popular as its English counterpart in their respective countries.

Actually the French, Dutch, Czech (only the first season), Polish, Danish, Norwegian, Swedish & Hebrew dubs based their dubs off of the English, and thus have the dub music. The Brazilian Portuguese dub dubbed the US opening, but kept the Japanese BGM.

Thanks for that correction, I've only seen clips of the other versions which retain the Japanese music.

Still, my point stands that the dubs of Digimon that kept the Japanese BGM didn't fare any worse proportionally to the English counterpart.

 

[Yoshi1001]

If by chance it's a matter of cash, they're THE POKEMON COMPANY INTERNATIONAL! They should have money to burn. FUNimation mostly does direct-to-DVD releases and aside from DBZ, it's hardly seems to be an issue.

Based on my knowledge and experience, TPCi's generally a pretty frugal company. You can argue they don't always make the right decision in that area, but saying they have "money to burn" is really stretching it.

 

[FANG-TAN]

If by chance it's a matter of cash, they're THE POKEMON COMPANY INTERNATIONAL! They should have money to burn. FUNimation mostly does direct-to-DVD releases and aside from DBZ, it's hardly seems to be an issue.

Based on my knowledge and experience, TPCi's generally a pretty frugal company. You can argue they don't always make the right decision in that area, but saying they have "money to burn" is really stretching it.

Frugal as they may be, it's still reasonable to assume that they're quite financially stable enough to provide us with an English localization that isn't haphazard, at least in terms of music.

(Frugality does explain why we never got this... or this... or this...)

 

[Almonds]

If by chance it's a matter of cash, they're THE POKEMON COMPANY INTERNATIONAL! They should have money to burn. FUNimation mostly does direct-to-DVD releases and aside from DBZ, it's hardly seems to be an issue.

Based on my knowledge and experience, TPCi's generally a pretty frugal company. You can argue they don't always make the right decision in that area, but saying they have "money to burn" is really stretching it.

Frugal as they may be, it's still reasonable to assume that they're quite financially stable enough to provide us with an English localization that isn't haphazard, at least in terms of music.

(Frugality does explain why we never got this... or this... or this...)

Wait wait wait - I think I'm misunderstanding some points. They're replacing music to save money? Wouldn't it be so much less work (and less money spent) if they just left all the background music as it is and just simply dubbed the voices of the characters?

 

[FANG-TAN]

Wait wait wait - I think I'm misunderstanding some points. They're replacing music to save money? Wouldn't it be so much less work (and less money spent) if they just left all the background music as it is and just simply dubbed the voices of the characters?

Well, they have to pay money to license the music, but I'm not sure if that's more expensive than producing their own (I'm leaning towards inexpensive, if the point about original voices > dubbed voices in terms of affordability is viable as a comparison). Either way, both scenarios make no sense.

Japanese music is more expensive - Why not replace the whole score?

Japanese music is cheaper - Why not use the original track in its entirety?

With either scenario, they're just changing the original work for the sake of changing it.

Plus, I haven't touched much of the Pocket Monsters dubs since the early 4Kids ones, but in terms of those, I remember that they sometimes replaced pieces of music only to use the very music they replaced in a different scene - meaning they already owned the rights to them but chose to compose their own music for the hell of it. Huh.

Certain dubbing practices make no sense to me sometimes. As Lord_Mewtwo kindly pointed out, the Brazilian Portuguese dub of Digimon apparently had rights to the Japanese BGM and the English dub opening theme... why not one or the other? Man, I'm glad most anime localization companies (at least in the US) have a more sensible rationale and integrity towards the original product nowadays. It hurts my head simply trying to rationalize those types of decisions.

 

[Nymphia]

Wait wait wait - I think I'm misunderstanding some points. They're replacing music to save money? Wouldn't it be so much less work (and less money spent) if they just left all the background music as it is and just simply dubbed the voices of the characters?

Well, they have to pay money to license the music, but I'm not sure if that's more expensive than producing their own (I'm leaning towards inexpensive, if the point about original voices > dubbed voices in terms of affordability is viable as a comparison). Either way, both scenarios make no sense.

Japanese music is more expensive - Why not replaced the whole score?

Japanese music is cheaper - Why not use the whole track?

Either scenario, they're just changing the original work for the sake of changing it.

Plus, I haven't touched much of the Pocket Monsters dubs since the early 4Kids ones, but in terms of those, I remember that they sometimes replaced pieces of music only to use the very music they replaced in a different scene - meaning they already owned the rights to them but choose to compose their own music for the hell of it. Huh.

Certain dubbing companies make no sense to me sometimes. As Lord_Mewtwo kindly pointed out, the Brazilian Portuguese dub of Digimon apparently had rights to the Japanese music and the English dub opening theme... why not one or the other? Man, I'm glad most English localization companies have a more sensible rationale nowadays.

I hear somewhere that costs of music of a single episode can cost around 10000$ per episode and that the cost are not included on the anime license, which means 5000004 a season.
TPCi has to finance all their dubs outside of Japan (excep Korea and China) because TPCi has their rights for them unlike many other dubbing companies.

What is known is that for TPCi is cheaper to dub his own music than pay all the original music. They pay for part of the music mainly because the anime represents the games and some of the anime tracks are based on the games.

 

[Almonds]

Wait wait wait - I think I'm misunderstanding some points. They're replacing music to save money? Wouldn't it be so much less work (and less money spent) if they just left all the background music as it is and just simply dubbed the voices of the characters?

Well, they have to pay money to license the music, but I'm not sure if that's more expensive than producing their own (I'm leaning towards inexpensive, if the point about original voices > dubbed voices in terms of affordability is viable as a comparison). Either way, both scenarios make no sense.

Japanese music is more expensive - Why not replaced the whole score?

Japanese music is cheaper - Why not use the whole track?

Either scenario, they're just changing the original work for the sake of changing it.

Plus, I haven't touched much of the Pocket Monsters dubs since the early 4Kids ones, but in terms of those, I remember that they sometimes replaced pieces of music only to use the very music they replaced in a different scene - meaning they already owned the rights to them but choose to compose their own music for the hell of it. Huh.

Certain dubbing companies make no sense to me sometimes. As Lord_Mewtwo kindly pointed out, the Brazilian Portuguese dub of Digimon apparently had rights to the Japanese music and the English dub opening theme... why not one or the other? Man, I'm glad most English localization companies have a more sensible rationale nowadays.

I hear somewhere that costs of music of a single episode can cost around 10000$ per episode and that the cost are not included on the anime license, which means 5000004 a season.
TPCi has to finance all their dubs outside of Japan (excep Korea and China) because TPCi has their rights for them unlike many other dubbing companies.

What is known is that for TPCi is cheaper to dub his own music than pay all the original music. They pay for part of the music mainly because the anime represents the games and some of the anime tracks are based on the games.

Oh... I used to watch the Korean dubs as well, and they kept almost every soundtrack in the episodes, so I assumed it was cheaper to simply dub over the voices while leaving the background music as it is. So there are licensing issues that I wasn't aware of, I guess.