Why is Dragon Quest so popular?

[Dogasu]

As lot of you guys know, Dragon Quest is friggin' HUGE in Japan. Every time a new game comes out over there, people come out from all over the country to get their hands on it. After Dragon Quest III, a law was passed making it illegal to release a new Dragon Quest game on a weekday because too many kids were skipping school (and too many salarymen were calling in sick) to buy the game. Dragon Quest VII went on to become the best-selling console RPG of all time, and Dragon Quest VIII was the fastest-selling Playstation 2 game of all time.

I've played Dragon Quest games before (I'm currently making my way through the PSOne remake of DQIV), and while they are fun, I just don't see why the Japanese go so crazy for them. The plots are often incredibly simple, the battle system hasn't been updated in 20 years, the graphics (except in DQ8) just outright suck, the pacing is sluggish at best, and the characters really aren't that interesting at all. I understand that the games are going for that nostalgic feeling, but sometimes I feel like that's just an excuse that's used to justify Enix's lack of effort in bringing anything new to the series.

I realize that Toriyama Akira, who was incredibly popular in Japan during the mid-80's, has a hand in the series' success, but can his name alone keep a series thriving 20 years later? I doubt it.

So what do you guys think? Is there some hidden charm that I'm missing? Some magic spell being cast over Japanese gamers that is, for some reason, just not affecting me? Or is Dragon Quest just a mediocre RPG series that's been overhyped more than any series should? While I am a fan of the games, I can't help but wonder what the big deal is.

 

[Mozz]

Fantastic music + anime style characters = Winn4r.

DQ8 was one of the top 5 games I've ever played.

 

[Misty]

Well, let's start with some hard data.

http://www.vgcharts.org/worldtotals.php?name=dragon+quest&console=&publisher=&sort=japan

From this we can glean that (from a Japanese perspective):

DQ7 > DQ3 > DQ8 > DQ6 > DQ4 > DQ5 > DQ2 > DQ1

The immediately obvious trend is that, aside from the outlier DQ3, the series has gained in popularity over time. There are a few variables to consider, like month of release (considering distance from the holiday season), but overall I think this is useful enough.

The best reason I can come up with is the growth of the JRPG industry - obviously, this was a little-known genre on the NES (FF and DQ were the main players), that expanded on the SNES (improvement of FF and DQ, Tales, etc.), then exploded on the PS1 (FF7, growth in the Western sector encouraging business, new third party opportunities on the PS1), and levelled off in the PS2 era. That gives us a good image of the trend in the series.

Now taking DQ itself into the equation, perhaps we should consider lack of change a strength - essentially, if all you do is take a successful core model and just add improvements, you're going to make a better product. Contrast this with FF, which makes complete overhauls with each game, which can result in the game being much better or much worse (contrast the haphazard placement of the various games in this list: http://www.vgcharts.org/worldtotals.php?name=final+fantasy&console=&publisher=&sort=Japan)
With the popular designs of Toriyama, the nostalgia factor, and good marketing, it makes sense to me why Dragon Quest continues to do well.

 

[Dogasu]

Fantastic music

Final Fantasy's music is much better. And they don't reuse the same four tracks over and over and over and over.

anime style characters

What the hell is an "anime style character?"

Now taking DQ itself into the equation, perhaps we should consider lack of change a strength - essentially, if all you do is take a successful core model and just add improvements, you're going to make a better product.

While the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality can apply, it's also true that by being too afraid of adding new elements or shaking things up a bit, you create a bland, stale product.

It was the first RPG game to be developed on a console when it hit the Famicom on May 27, 1986.

I realize that. But what has the game series done lately?

While many nostalgia-philes love the fact that DQ7 essentially plays the same way that DQ1 did, I find the lack of effort in updating the games to be quite lazy.

 

[Dogasu]

Most every other video game franchise is able to remain fun while introducing new, innovative gameplay elements. Dragon Quest is the only series I can think of off the top of my head that refuses to get out of the 1980's.

 

[Mozz]

Do some research on the music, Dogasu. Check how many concerts they've had for DQ music... Download the symphonic box set, which features tracks from all of the games. The music from the early games is certainly close to the FF music.

And anime-style characters is just that, lots of exaggeration, fun styles, Toriyama goodness.

 

[Dogasu]

Whether or not the music's been performed by the London Symphony Orchestra or has had a zillion CD releases doesn't change the fact that when I play Dragon Quest games, I hear the same four or five pieces of music over and over again. And while those four or five pieces are alright, the range in music styles is nowhere near as wide as the range you'll hear in other video games.

 

[Mozz]

Agreed that the range isn't Uematsu or Kanno-esque... Still very good music.

 

[Habunake]

Dragon Quest is....

You take Dragon Ball, remove all the long drawn out fights, aliens, robots, and stuff like that.

Add swords.

Their okay imo, they just take FOREVER to level up.

Now, Dragon Warrior Monsters, that game was FUN!

 

[Misty]

<i>While the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality can apply, it's also true that by being too afraid of adding new elements or shaking things up a bit, you create a bland, stale product. </i>

I think this statement shows a difference in the American and Japanese mentalities. It seems to me that the Japanese don't have the American problem, specifically where they tend to get "bored" of things. An example might help.

Take MASH. MASH had its season finale a couple years ago, and was hailed as an incredibly long-running show (11 seasons). MASH was consistent quality and was enjoyed up until its final end.

On the other side of the Pacific, Pokemon will surpass MASH, assuming that DP plays out its full 3+ seasons. And it gets zero recognition - other shows have easily lasted for 20+ years.

My inference is that the Japanese are more able to stick with a franchise and see it to the end; while Americans constantly require refreshing, or they just get bored of the whole deal. Consider that Final Fantasy constantly overhauls its formula as I said earlier; I would suspect that is the reason for its continued success as the unrivalled head of American JRPGs (not counting Pokemon, which, btw, drops constantly in popularity due to its lack of change.)

 

[Habunake]

Then again, America, imo, seems to be FAD CRAZY!

 

[Dogasu]

NOWHERE is as fad-crazy as Japan.

 

[Zeta]

The plots are often incredibly simple,

Bingo. You've hit it. The games are simple. Both in terms of plot and gameplay.

Overcomplexity is a problem prevalent in most big-name RPGs these days. Both in terms of plot and gameplay. Final Fantasy is the chief example. The fact of the matter is that these days, most RPGs follow a pretty simple pattern that's overcomplex in some ways:

* Unassuming hero goes on a small quest

* Plot Twist 1: Small quest is revealed to be a larger part of saving the world.

* Plot Twist 2: Heroes learn they were working for the bad guys all along and have to switch sides (Very popular lately - see Tales of Symphonia and Final Fantasy X)

Then the game usually has 3 or 4 more plot twists specific to each game.

Dragon Quest pretty much eschews the huge plot twists in favor of a more simple story. There's only so many times you can have a character pop out behind a bush and go "Hah! You were working for teh wrong side all along! WTF OMG!" before one begins to get sick of it.

Secondly, the simplified battle system. Take a look at where FF is headed lately. The Job system is always fun, and adds a lot of depth. But lately leveling up has become too damn complex. Final Fantasy X and XII are the worst offenders of this. They actually make you play strategy-type mini games just to get stats. That's nice, but I don't want to have to collect goddamned orbs or play a game of checkers to get 2 points added to my strength. The crappy orb system was the chief reason I never finished FFX in the first place. And the new Checkerboard system is why I won't be getting FFXII.

Then you have to remember that DQ's series is one of the few RPGs left that try to appeal to male gamers. Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, etc are obviously now oriented entirely towards teenage fangirls with their never-ending torrent of effeminate bishounen metrosexuals. Final Fantasy XII basically looks like Queer as Folk with magic spells.

I'm gay, but cripes - I don't play these games to draw crappy fan-art of the characters and scream out "Sephiroth is my Bishie!" which seems to be the target audience most RPGs are made for nowadays.

Look at Organization XIII in KH2. It's like an evil organization made from recruits that were picked up at a gay bar. I'm sorry, but I'm getting sick of the weird Japanese idea that magical warriors wielding swords and fighting in a fantasy universe would look like 20-something homosexuals with perfect skin who are just ready to go out for a night of clubbing.

So yeah, DQ has remained simplified and aimed at guys while it's chief competitors are mostly aimed at girls and over-complicating crap. Sorry about that. I used to like FF, but lately it's just gotten on my nerves.

 

[Dogasu]

Dragon Quest pretty much eschews the huge plot twists in favor of a more simple story. There's only so many times you can have a character pop out behind a bush and go "Hah! You were working for teh wrong side all along! WTF OMG!" before one begins to get sick of it.

There's also only so many times you can save town after town from some terrible curse that usually has nothing to do with the main plot. I mean, I got frustrated when I was playing DQ7 because I felt like every little quest I was forced to go through had nothing to do with the main plot at all. If I want to dick around some tiny little island, let me do it on my own time; don't force me to sit through cursed village after cursed village before I get to the point of it all.

Secondly, the simplified battle system. Take a look at where FF is headed lately. The Job system is always fun, and adds a lot of depth. But lately leveling up has become too damn complex.

I prefer things like FFX's orb system to the damn tediousness of Dragon Quest's leveling up system, which hasn't been upgraded in 20 years. I mean, all you have to do in Dragon Quest battles is keep hitting the accept button over and over until you win. Every now and then you may have to do something exciting like cast Hoimi, but for the most part, you can breeze through DQ battles with your eyes closed.

Battles take up a good portion of any RPG, and when you can win 90% of the battles by closing your eyes and blindly hitting the accept button, you're going to get real sick of them real quick.

Then you have to remember that DQ's series is one of the few RPGs left that try to appeal to male gamers. Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, etc are obviously now oriented entirely towards teenage fangirls with their never-ending torrent of effeminate bishounen metrosexuals.

Which is why males are still the ones who primarily buy the games?

I'm gay, but cripes - I don't play these games to draw crappy fan-art of the characters and scream out "Sephiroth is my Bishie!" which seems to be the target audience most RPGs are made for nowadays.

On the other side of the coin...Dragon Quest characters are just bootleg versions of Dragon Ball characters due to Toriyama Akira's extremely limited art style. Take a look at DQ8. The hero is Gohan, Yangus is Dodoria, Angelo is Trunks, Dhoulmagus is Kibito Kai, etc.

Look at Organization XIII in KH2. It's like an evil organization made from recruits that were picked up at a gay bar. I'm sorry, but I'm getting sick of the weird Japanese idea that magical warriors wielding swords and fighting in a fantasy universe would look like 20-something homosexuals with perfect skin who are just ready to go out for a night of clubbing.

What about Dragon Quest's world where half the characters are fat, middle-aged old men?

 

[Habunake]

On the other side of the coin...Dragon Quest characters are just bootleg versions of Dragon Ball characters due to Toriyama Akira's extremely limited art style. Take a look at DQ8. The hero is Gohan, Yangus is Dodoria, Angelo is Trunks, Dhoulmagus is Kibito Kai, etc.

Hell, the hero even goes Super Saiyan!