Why Is Gen II Supposedly The Best Gen?

[Pidgeot]

Everyone has heard of people who adore the first two generations but hate the most recent three. So, why do you think the best generation is Gen II according to those people?

 

[Still Probably Modio]

Yeah. Riiight.
Of the five gens, Johto hardly shone at all.
Kanto was the first ever game, Hoenn was rebooting the story, Sinnoh was a pioneer to DS and Unova was totally new.
If we are going by originals alone, Gen II did very little, in my opinion.

 

[chimera]

Actually, I've heard a lot of hate about Gen II.

 

[Arc Blader]

As I said in a similar thread:

Simple: it expanded on the original concept just enough so that it appealed greatly to people who enjoyed the original games. And most people who enjoyed the original games weren't yet cynical enough to pay that much attention to its faults (that cynicism unfortunately arrived in time to catch Gen III in the crossfire). Throw in the nostalgia factor, and it's suddenly the default answer for "Best Generation" in most peoples' minds.
Amusingly enough, Digimon Adventure 02 works on the exact same principle. Original Content+Shiny New Stuff+Non-jaded fansXNostalgia=Perceived Greatness, every time.

 

[Caitlin]

A lot of people hold Generation II in high regard because that was the first generation they started on, therefore nostalgia kicks in pretty hardcore for them. Not to mention, Gen II received tons of polishing that the original games didn't have, either graphically, musically or just general game engine tweaks that made the experience a lot better.

As for me? Gen II is pretty good, I guess. But I feel as if Gen I with Gen II's engine/graphical polishing would have vastly outclassed it.

 

[βƹβƹ ɱɪɢηѻη]

Everyone has heard of people who adore the first two generations but hate the most recent three. So, why do you think the best generation is Gen II according to those people?

Well, because it expanded beyond Generation I. It was the first generation to introduce a whole new region, new Pokemon, new gym leaders, etc. That was a pretty exciting time because back then, no one knew Pokemon would get a second generation.

 

[Sushi-X]

Because it simply is.

Nostalgia, Awesomeness, Designs, all perfected.

 

[Laterose]

I personally have a fondness for it because it refined several of the lumps in first gen, and added a whole new world onto something I was already in love with. The concept of a new generation of Pokemon was still, quite literally, new. And I was 11, which was the perfect age.

 

[Miar]

Admittedly, G2 as good for its time. Compared to now, however...

Most of the nostalgic praise, I want to think, is solely because they couldn't trade with Ruby/Sapphire. They wanted to keep their old stuff.

 

[Proxima Centauri B]

It was my first generation. It expanded on the original games and added features that werent present such as NIght/Day and shinies and Berries. It also introduced alot of interesting new Pokemon and the ability to breed Pokemon. Also Crystal was the first full color Pokemon game. It was just a great generation that alot of people loved.

 

[Purim]

As soon as I finished Gold, I went back and replayed Yellow, back in the day.

Gold and Silver introduced a lot of concepts, like Genders, Breeding, the Day/Night Cycle and some of the most popular Pokémon in the franchise.

However, when I played GS, I also noted that Johto was a mess, the difficulty was either too hard (Whitney's Miltank, Clair) or too easy(Team Rocket, the Elite Four), I couldn't find any new Pokémon, and the ones I could find were stuff like Aipom and Stantler.

It's probably like Arc Blader said: they saw the good points and glossed over the bad ones.

 

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

I question why it's the best installment of all time considering that the game suffered from the worst level grinding in the series so far, and had more Kanto Pokemon and less Johto Pokemon available in the wild for the new region, which is kinda sad. To make matters worse, Umbreon's the only dark type available until after you beat the Elite 4. Some of the gym leader rosters were questionable since a few of them used Kanto Pokemon as their signature Pokemon rather than Johto Pokemon. HG/SS failed to fix these problems, making it the weakest entry to the 4th gen set.

 

[Laterose]

I question why it's the best installment of all time considering that the game suffered from the worst level grinding in the series so far, and had more Kanto Pokemon and less Johto Pokemon available in the wild for the new region, which is kinda sad. To make matters worse, Umbreon's the only dark type available until after you beat the Elite 4. Some of the gym leader rosters were questionable since a few of them used Kanto Pokemon as their signature Pokemon rather than Johto Pokemon. HG/SS failed to fix these problems, making it the weakest entry to the 4th gen set.

There were only about five Dark-types to start with, and Umbreon was the only pure one. Steel-types were also difficult to get until later in the Johto region, and there were only five also (and all were dual-types).

 

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

There were only about five Dark-types to start with, and Umbreon was the only pure one. Steel-types were also difficult to get until later in the Johto region, and there were only five also (and all were dual-types).

And like Dark, only one was available (if you're playing Gold version), but neither Umbreon nor Magneton were good choices to use on your playthrough due to low offensive stats (on Umbreon's case) and limited movepools (like every other Pokemon). Another notice is the severe lack of sidequests for Kanto as it felt more like a chore.

 

[Pidgeot]

I don't know why Gen II is held in such high regard, due to the terribleness of it. The level curve, the designs, the cramped regions... it all makes Gen II horrible.

 

[The Outrage]

Does anyone actually say this anymore, like a substantial group of the fandom? All I see are people complaining about a population of the fandom that either no longer exists, or are more moderate in their views so taking issue with their personal opinion on Gen II is like taking issue with people's personal opinions of Gen V.

Of course, if anything can be said about newer fans, its unfairly comparing old games with new ones in dimensions such as graphics, or slamming them for having more primitive interfaces that the newer generations simply revised over time. If you want to compare graphics and whatnot, compare it with the game's contemporaries. If you want to compare them to new games, make sure its on a dimension that they all share. Level curves? Yeah, sure, call that out. Pre-Kanto levels were low. Of course, people's complaints of post-Kanto levels and gyms being too easy when you're the damn Champion is a bit ridiculous. Want to complain that Gen II relied too heavily on past generations or how different the experience is from the past generation? Valid, reliance on past generations is something everything past Gen I has to deal with. Want to complain about its bad graphics compared to new games? There is no response to that. Want to complain about how crappy the graphics are compared to other games of the age? Valid.

 

[Blue1225]

As I said in a similar thread:

Couldn't agree more and that's what it really comes down to. Gen 2 improved on everything from Gen 1 and then some. Whereas now people are always complaining about some bonus aspect that was in the previous Gen being left out.

Nostalgia and an entirely seperate region full of bonus content after the Elite 4.

The sequel let down a lot of people. Wether it was because of the fact that your old pokemon were forever lost to you, the massive amount of surfing, or the lack of post game content a lot of people left Hoenn with bad feelings. You'll always compare the new game to what came before while I like to see Gen 3 as The Pokemon Renaissance, the lack of post game content to Gen 2 just killed it for me at the time.

I question why it's the best installment of all time considering that the game suffered from the worst level grinding in the series so far, and had more Kanto Pokemon and less Johto Pokemon available in the wild for the new region, which is kinda sad. To make matters worse, Umbreon's the only dark type available until after you beat the Elite 4. Some of the gym leader rosters were questionable since a few of them used Kanto Pokemon as their signature Pokemon rather than Johto Pokemon. HG/SS failed to fix these problems, making it the weakest entry to the 4th gen set.

I agree with all of your points, however for every flaw the games had a good point to it. Really the only true place where Gen 2 failed in my opinion is not giving the newer pokemon the attention they deserved in the games.

Does anyone actually say this anymore, like a substantial group of the fandom? All I see are people complaining about a population of the fandom that either no longer exists, or are more moderate in their views so taking issue with their personal opinion on Gen II is like taking issue with people's personal opinions of Gen V.

Of course, if anything can be said about newer fans, its unfairly comparing old games with new ones in dimensions such as graphics, or slamming them for having more primitive interfaces that the newer generations simply revised over time. If you want to compare graphics and whatnot, compare it with the game's contemporaries. If you want to compare them to new games, make sure its on a dimension that they all share. Level curves? Yeah, sure, call that out. Pre-Kanto levels were low. Of course, people's complaints of post-Kanto levels and gyms being too easy when you're the damn Champion is a bit ridiculous. Want to complain that Gen II relied too heavily on past generations or how different the experience is from the past generation? Valid, reliance on past generations is something everything past Gen I has to deal with. Want to complain about its bad graphics compared to new games? There is no response to that. Want to complain about how crappy the graphics are compared to other games of the age? Valid.

Once again, I could not agree more. How many people are out there that can still be defined as fanatics about Gen 2. Fans of Gen 2 are much more moderate than they used to be and Personally I think the Gen 3 fans were far worse then Gen 2 OR Gen 1 fans ever were. Most of them really only ever seemed to think it was the best because it was the region they started playing the games in. (Which is perfectly fine as long as you let others like a different Gen for the same reason with no complaint).

The big problem is that people are constantly saying Gens 1, 2 and now 3 sucked because they're comparing them unfairly to the newer games.

 

[Rex Kamex]

Well, because it expanded beyond Generation I. It was the first generation to introduce a whole new region, new Pokemon, new gym leaders, etc. That was a pretty exciting time because back then, no one knew Pokemon would get a second generation.

Yeah. The 2nd gen was the first time we got to experience a new batch of Pokemon. (Well, technically the 1st gen was, but that's 'cause everything was new then. You know what I mean.) During the 1st gen, we saw hints of the 2nd gen, like Togepi and Marill and the like. We got little teasers like that. And Lugia of course. And then we got new games with new Pokemon and stuff. (Including games with names intended to sound cooler, like Gold instead of Red, and with legendary mascots rather than just starters)- They had new features like genders of a lot of Pokemon and also eggs. And also the experience points bar. They had new stuff but didn't change appearances in the game to make it look uncomfortable. This was also the last generation of Pokemon as a fad (in the US, anyway).

I still think later gens are better in terms of features and storylines (I don't dislike the older games graphics, except plenty of the sprites from the original Red and Green), but for nostalgic feeling especially, the 2nd gen has a special place in my heart. As for the 3rd gen, I was excited to play Ruby, and while I missed the (temporary) lack of certain older Pokemon when I found out they were all programmed into the game, I figured- you know, one day they'll release all the older Pokemon some day).

For me, the concept of new Pokemon has been welcome to me Gens III through V. I'm curious to how VI is gonna go.

 

[H-con]

Things like this make me laugh. There's no real evidence for this whatsoever. It would be like me saying how gen III fans are complaining how "everyone" hates gen III, but it's still not correct (both sayings are somewhat based on the truth. I've seen quite a few of my examples, but that does not indicate a majority of gen III fans saying this nor does it mean that people hate gen III. In fact, it's one of the most popular generations... This mostly applies to gen II fans vs gen III fans though). But allow me to make it clear, the notion that gen II is considered the best gen is simply not true. If that was true, then surely you'd think gen II would get the most votes in the "Best generation"-poll just recently. It came third, and no matter how few that voted, if it was true, then I'd expect at the very least a plurality choosing gen II. So much for that.

People like different games, and I felt and still feel that Gold was the best pokémon game to date, seen in perspective. By the looks of how the games are developing, I'd say that's likely to stay the same for a few years, unless Gamefreak really surprises me. I can go into a boring tale of why I prefer Gold, though that would hardly be of any use, as it wouldn't make any difference whatsoever.


Also, I've had it with thee motherfucking 502's on this motherfucking BMGf!

 

[βƹβƹ ɱɪɢηѻη]

Things like this make me laugh. There's no real evidence for this whatsoever. It would be like me saying how gen III fans are complaining how "everyone" hates gen III, but it's still not correct (both sayings are somewhat based on the truth. I've seen quite a few of my examples, but that does not indicate a majority of gen III fans saying this nor does it mean that people hate gen III. In fact, it's one of the most popular generations... This mostly applies to gen II fans vs gen III fans though). But allow me to make it clear, the notion that gen II is considered the best gen is simply not true. If that was true, then surely you'd think gen II would get the most votes in the "Best generation"-poll just recently. It came third, and no matter how few that voted, if it was true, then I'd expect at the very least a plurality choosing gen II. So much for that.

People like different games, and I felt and still feel that Gold was the best pokémon game to date, seen in perspective. By the looks of how the games are developing, I'd say that's likely to stay the same for a few years, unless Gamefreak really surprises me. I can go into a boring tale of why I prefer Gold, though that would hardly be of any use, as it wouldn't make any difference whatsoever.


Also, I've had it with thee motherfucking 502's on this motherfucking BMGf!

I don't think you understood what the debate is actually about.

The thread is not about why Generation II IS the best. It's asking you why some people regard Generation II as the best generation.

andiagreewithyou