Why is that made-up language "better" than Japanese?

[Dogasu]

We've all seen it: that made-up language created for the TV series to replace what would have been written Japanese if this was an episode from the first series. Written Japanese in a Pokemon episode has been taboo for over a decade and a half now (with exceptions few and far between) and so this new made-up language was concocted so that the animators wouldn't have to keep using pictograms on books and signs.

Let's just think about how effed up that is for a moment:

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Now this episode hasn't been dubbed yet but I'm 100% certain that all of those scenes will be left untouched. And yet if any of that text was in Japanese - any of it at all! - then TPCI would have their digital artists rush to "fix" it without a second thought.

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Native Japanese speakers cannot read this made-up language. Native English speakers cannot read this made-up language. I honestly doubt there's anyone out there who doesn't work on the TV show who can read this language without looking it up (a lot of which actually is decipherable). Everybody is equally in the dark here. And maybe that's the point? That if we can't understand what's being written then nobody gets to understand what's being written? That making the show less accessible to everyone somehow makes it more accessible to those same people?

At the same time, though, the mere fact that this made-up language even exists in the first place sends this really nasty message that confusing pictograms are somehow preferable to being exposed to a language that real human beings actually use. The message being sent is that written Japanese = bad. Let's replace one language that people can't read with a different language that people can't read because at least this new language isn't *shudder* Japanese.

People get all defensive whenever I call this sort of thing xenophobic but I honestly can't think of what else to call it.

Is there something I'm missing? Is there some hidden merit to this made-up language that I'm overlooking? Some reason why written Japanese is the devil's writin' that needs to be expunged from this Earth ASAP? Why is that made-up language "better" than Japanese?

 

[kantoskies]

It's probably better, at least in the eyes of TPCi, in the same way that characters who already have English names in the Japenese version get entirely new ones in the dub. Or how the title card of XY056 was changed from Dedenne to Bonnie (and pretty much every other one is changed to Ash). Or how 3 seconds have been added on to the end of pretty much every episode since season 9. Or how the first two, 100% dubbed XY episodes were re-scored after being aired as a preview:

"Because why the hell not?"

But I agree, it's very much xenophobic (and arguably racist as they'll throw in random French where there wasn't any in the original) how made-up shit is somehow better than Japanese. It's a shame whoever was in charge of this over in Japan decided to go this route, no doubt pressured from 4Kids back in the early days of their dub (honestly if I were in that situation, unless it was in some sort of contract, I would have told them to fuck off seeing as how their tampering of my work would be completely unnecessary). Why should the staff in Japan have to go to the trouble of creating and then using a whole new made-up language just because some Americans think it will hurt the dub?

 

[Moe]

I'd think part of the problem is how much attention the made up language now gets - having it full screen for long periods of time while a computer is being used makes its use worse than if it was just used on background signs. Just stopping doing that by only using wide shots and using generic symbols where possible would make it less noticeable that it isn't a language.

They also don't really achieve giving viewers meaning, in cases where it would make a lot of sense to do a paint edit they don't. Take this for example:

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Using a circle for correct isn't something that translates (Sony still swap the Playstation controller buttons around for the west), yet it gets ignored because it isn't Japanese text. That's the sort of thing that would be the most obvious place for localisation, where a symbol doesn't convey the intended meaning.

I'd make a slight argument that we don't know for sure the attitude of the dub to Japanese text, it seems to be totally arbitrary rather than a policy one way or the other. On one hand they did leave the title sequence of the Pokemon Live Caster segment fully in tact in the dub of To Catch a Rotom, but then they remove it from Korrina's Gym intro sequence.

It's especially odd as the games now open themselves up to being more global. At the same time as the BW anime was going overboard with using the made up language, the games had NPCs and the TV teaching you Japanese and encouraging you to trade internationally.

 

[JacobYBM]

Yeah, it really makes no sense. It just goes to show that the US--which is pretty much the only country out there that is going to give a shit--is ass-backwards.

 

[Almonds]

Wait, is this really because the US pressured the creators in Japan? Really? I thought the made up language was just something the pokemon creators came up with to be creative - to show that the Pokemon world exists with its own unique language system.

Personally, the made up language is more a relief where I live. Even though there are Japanese animes airing on cable tv with subtitles in the recent years, and the restrictions on showing Japanese culture having loosened up a lot (compared to all the massive - and I mean MASSIVE - edits that happened when airing the Digimon/Sailor Moon/etc series 10 years ago), some of the kids' shows still censor and edit/fix "too much" Japanese showing in episodes recently. Sometimes, they edit the Japanese language to Korean with rather bad graphics that go out of sync with the frames, or create huge subtitles that flatly cover the language showing on the screen (and sometimes other stuff on the scene as well) - which is eye-cringe-worthy. I'm not opposed to Japanese langauge showing up in the pokemon anime, but if the localizing team is going to make horrible dub edits and enormous subtitles that block scenes, then I'd rather appreciate the made-up language the Japanese staff created and prefer nobody touches/edits anything. Imagine the horror of having to watch Officer Jenny hold up that arrest warrant, which would have been fine if it were just written in Japanese by the original creators, with horrible localizing edits which makes the dubbed letters float in air and not stuck on the paper, or either clean-wiped, or having scribbles of subtitles beneath every single line...

 

[PockyAddict]

I don't and have'nt gotten it either. Pokelanguage is something useless that nobody understands but the characters in the anime. Truth be told i don't mind the Japanese language in the original version of the jp anime and i hated the fact they had to make up this language because the dumb dub companies are afraid of actual Japanese.

 

[Muur]

I'm more amazed it can actually be translated.

and if it saves money cuz dubbers are too stubborn then fair play to them for doing it. It's minor and doesn't really matter much in the long run. Since most wont be able to read it anyway I don't see the need for them to keep changing it, though. Could help people learn a new language!

 

[CrashBash]

I honestly couldn't care less. At least they're not just completely blanking it out like I know some dubbed anime did.

 

[henrymidfields]

But I agree, it's very much xenophobic (and arguably racist as they'll throw in random French where there wasn't any in the original) how made-up shit is somehow better than Japanese.

I'm originally from japan, and I fail to see how that is xenophobic/racist. Random French? Of course they would throw some French terms for XY! The region is modelled after Kalos after all! There were some French terms in the XY games, so why shouldn't there be so in the anime?

 

[Saucedo]

I think its about equality.
People in the west cant understand Japanese, but Japanese people can, so its much more equal to just have one that no one understands.
Also it makes the Pokemon world seem different, like it has its own language, although we obviously hear it in English, the language they speak in the anime might be called something else entirely. Remember it can be understood in PokeJapan, PokeUSA and PokeFrance so its clearly not a language we have in this world.

 

[Dogasu]

I'd think part of the problem is how much attention the made up language now gets - having it full screen for long periods of time while a computer is being used makes its use worse than if it was just used on background signs. Just stopping doing that by only using wide shots and using generic symbols where possible would make it less noticeable that it isn't a language.

That suggestion shows just how insane this whole thing is. Can you think of any other TV show out there where "be careful not to show text filling up a screen because it'll draw attention to the made-up language you created to avoid showing foreigners what the language you read and write on a daily basis looks like" is a thing that people would seriously suggest? And how such a thing would be incredibly stifling for a director to have to deal with?

I'd make a slight argument that we don't know for sure the attitude of the dub to Japanese text, it seems to be totally arbitrary rather than a policy one way or the other. On one hand they did leave the title sequence of the Pokemon Live Caster segment fully in tact in the dub of To Catch a Rotom, but then they remove it from Korrina's Gym intro sequence.

Well we couldn't really get a feel how TPCI felt one way or the other because, up untl last year, there honestly hadn't been any Japanese text in the show for them to react to. The Japanese animators had been avoiding it for so long that TPCI was able to go nearly a decade without it ever coming up.

But wasn't there some shake-up in the upper management of TPCI right around the time XY started that could be to blame for the dub reverting back to its Clinton-era policies of no Japanese text ever? Which would also explain some of the other weird things that have been going on with the dub lately like the whole Diancie movie fiasco?

Wait, is this really because the US pressured the creators in Japan? Really? I thought the made up language was just something the pokemon creators came up with to be creative - to show that the Pokemon world exists with its own unique language system.

Well we don't know for sure because nobody's ever come out and said as much (and really, why would they?) but it's pretty obvious that this is what happened. Japanese text just happened to stop being used in the TV series right around the time the English dub started getting popular just like references to Japanese-only holidays and customs started showing up less and less, characters went from eating ramen to eating hamburgers and hot dogs, and the violence got toned down a lot. Once Pokemon became an international sensation the show started downplaying its Japanese roots big time.

I'm sure 4Kids presented their side of things in a very nice way which is why they got what they wanted. "Look, guys, we love your show and all but the cost of localizing it is getting crazy expensive. Would you mind toning things down a bit so we can get your show out there faster and make you more money?"

At least they're not just completely blanking it out like I know some dubbed anime did.

Well that's exactly what this dub was doing back when Japanese text was still being used in the show. Now that it's not, however, the dubbers have nothing *to* blank out.

I'm originally from japan, and I fail to see how that is xenophobic/racist. Random French? Of course they would throw some French terms for XY! The region is modelled after Kalos after all! There were some French terms in the XY games, so why shouldn't there be so in the anime?

No one mentioned Kalos.

But there have been cases, for example, where Japanese text was replaced with French text in this show:

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And then there was the episode where they made a guy Italian, thick accent and random Italian phrases and everything, just because:

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The dub consistently does shit like this. It leaves French things alone. It leaves Italian things alone. It leaves Spanish things alone. And yet if Fiorella Cappuccino is speaking Italian with his cartoonishly awful accent and there's a sign in the background with Japanese writing on it then guess what gets localized?

I think xenophobic is the perfect word for it.

 

[SammyW27]

Because the kids the show is made for most likely don't particularly notice or care.

Heck, it's a fantasy/sci-fi/adventure show that makes up (and breaks) its own the rules as it goes along in a world where ANYTHING can happen. I fail to see how the type of text shown has very much significance.

 

[Galactic_V]

Funny Pocket Monsters's like one of (if not the only) only show where they did create this Simlish language... Other anime who popularized in the West stood as-is in Japan (Digimon, Sailor Moon, Yu-Gi-Oh!, BeyBlade, etc...), still using Japanese language for signs\boards and no stupid Simlish-style made-up language. I go as far to say some of those franchises were\are as popular as Pocket Monsters in the West (Yu-Gi-Oh! was as popular as PM at least here where I live).

If the producers want to go this far into erasing their own roots from the show I wonder why didn't they change the style to a Western cartoon one, make a minute (or less) bland openings, cut the ending animation and replace its music to a background one, cut the Jikai, etc... It'll look more like a Western cartoon if all of this's done.

 

[Treacle]

Maybe it's a way of 'retconning' the Pokémon world out of the real world (the one with non-pokémon fish, dogs and mongooses).

 

[Beth Pavell]

But I agree, it's very much xenophobic (and arguably racist as they'll throw in random French where there wasn't any in the original) how made-up shit is somehow better than Japanese.

I'm originally from japan, and I fail to see how that is xenophobic/racist. Random French? Of course they would throw some French terms for XY! The region is modelled after Kalos after all! There were some French terms in the XY games, so why shouldn't there be so in the anime?

I'm generally of that opinion. In this case I think it's a harmless, but rather pointless change, since I can't really see any benefit for it - as opposed to toning down the Japanese cultural references that would otherwise be untranslatable for a foreign audience (It's easy to forget that there once was a time when anime wasn't commonly watched by Western audiences at all. No surprises that Pokémon became less obviously Japanese once the franchise took off).

As to why it's done at all ... I reckon it's a case of dubbers assuming that foreign audiences will be put off by the Japanese text, for some reason. It wouldn't be the first time a silly assumption like that has been made. Brock becoming Tracy is the best one I can think of. Xenophobic, no, silly, yes

 

[Moe]

As to why it's done at all ... I reckon it's a case of dubbers assuming that foreign audiences will be put off by the Japanese text, for some reason. It wouldn't be the first time a silly assumption like that has been made. Brock becoming Tracy is the best one I can think of. Xenophobic, no, silly, yes

The thing is that if the goal was to make it not be 'foreign', the font they use doesn't even vaguely look like English or a related language. If anything to someone not familiar with what Japanese actually looks like, people might think it was Japanese.

The amount of French in the English dub annoys me simply because they go beyond the amount of French I know - which is pretty much none. Meowth's phrasing also often goes beyond familiarity for me frequently.

That suggestion shows just how insane this whole thing is. Can you think of any other TV show out there where "be careful not to show text filling up a screen because it'll draw attention to the made-up language you created to avoid showing foreigners what the language you read and write on a daily basis looks like" is a thing that people would seriously suggest? And how such a thing would be incredibly stifling for a director to have to deal with?

Well I suppose they could take the Tamagotchi anime's route and just use English everywhere?

It's a rather weird dub for a lot of reasons, including having a full length opening/closing that even has lyrics for the theme song that seems to be a fairly direct translation of the Japanese. It's worth having a look at, especially comparing the Japanese to the English episodes.

 

[Beth Pavell]

The thing is that if the goal was to make it not be 'foreign', the font they use doesn't even vaguely look like English or a related language. If anything to someone not familiar with what Japanese actually looks like, people might think it was Japanese.

The amount of French in the English dub annoys me simply because they go beyond the amount of French I know - which is pretty much none. Meowth's phrasing also often goes beyond familiarity for me frequently.

Yeah, it's a good point. And the French I find slightly annoying, though at least the pronunciation and accent is correct enough ... as opposed to the idiot accent of Prof. Eve, or the grating Mary Poppins rubbish they come up with in the dub sometimes.

 

[Osprey]

None of the reasons I've seen or thought of make much sense, and the entire "no Japanese text" thing is starting to remind me of old 4Kids shenanigans, like where rice balls become... jelly doughnuts? I'm thinking both the quirky alterations and this made-up language were probably put in place to avoid confusing a younger, less culturally aware audience with foreign symbols and objects.

Does this really excuse either? Heck no. Even more than things like rice balls, the idea that Japanese text would be too much culture shock for 11-year-olds to handle is pretty silly. It's going to sound ridiculous because this whole issue is a ridiculous one.

I guess it's only natural that there would be a double standard for this sort of thing regarding the French details, though. I think they reeeally want to convey the message "THIS IS FRANCE", but try to sweep the out-of-place Japanese stuff out of sight because... reasons.

 

[Beth Pavell]

Does this really excuse either? Heck no. Even more than things like rice balls, the idea that Japanese text would be too much culture shock for 11-year-olds to handle is pretty silly. It's going to sound ridiculous because this whole issue is a ridiculous one.

Back then it wasn't about culture shock. I was ten back when Pokémon first aired - I can tell you that some of the Japanese references played straight would have baffled me. This was before everyone was online all the time, before anime was commonplace among nerds. As far as me and my friends were concerned, we knew basically nothing about Japan. In the case of the rice balls, calling them rice balls would have been fine (I remember wondering why they were calling them doughnuts when they obviously weren't) ... but stuff like the o-fuda from The Ghost of Maiden's Peak just wouldn't have translated

 

[kantoskies]

But I agree, it's very much xenophobic (and arguably racist as they'll throw in random French where there wasn't any in the original) how made-up shit is somehow better than Japanese.

I'm originally from japan, and I fail to see how that is xenophobic/racist. Random French? Of course they would throw some French terms for XY! The region is modelled after Kalos after all! There were some French terms in the XY games, so why shouldn't there be so in the anime?

I'm not really talking about adding in French stuff in the XY series to fit Kalos' motif but rather how, in previous series' (series's? serieses? um) they would give characters more French stuff than in the Japanese version (like Burgundy in Best Wishes). And, as Dogasu said, they'll leave alone French/Italian stuff but god forbid the Japanese stuff! It's stuff like this that makes me think it's less xenophobic (because France and Italy have different cultures than the United States) but rather racist (I know calling stuff racist can open a big ol' can of controversy worms so I'll leave it at how it's similar to how people with thick European accents are considered more intelligent/acceptable than people with thick Japanese/Hispanic/etc accents)