Why is the dub so fickle on death?

[technickal]

Has anyone else noticed that the dub seems to jump back and forth on emphasizing and then trying to veil death?
It's not just the 4Kids dub, either. TPCi has been doing it too recently.

So we have death emphasized in episodes like Charmander – The Stray Pokémon where they don't even hesitate in saying what happens if Charmander or its evolutions' tail extinguishes. Most infamously we have Showdown in Pewter City, where Brock's mom is killed off in the dub (which turns out to be a big mistake on 4Kids' part, which they don't even try to fix in Chronicles). More recently, in the TPCi dub, we had Espurr and Lacy in Seeking Shelter From the Storm!, which was actually a big tearjerker. And, of course, we have movies like Mewtwo Strikes Back (where death is made more prominent in the dub along with the "violent fightning = wrong" message), The Power of One, Celebi: Voice of the Forest, LUCARIO AND THE MYSTERY OF MEW, Zoroark: Master of Illusions (the dub-added "I guess there's not much time left for me..."), and Diancie and the Cocoon of Destruction.

Now, we have the censorship side. There's Here Comes The Squirtle Squad, one episode after the Charmander one dodge two death references (the way they censored the Squirtle Squad killing Misty with dying her hair purple is hilarious, by the way). Mewtwo Strikes Back had The Uncut Story of Mewtwo's Origin removed from the prologue due to death being prominent in it, yet the dub decides emphasize the end result of death when the original and clone Pokémon are fighting in the same movie. Later, even Pokémon Origins got death censorship in the Lavender Town subplot, even though its base games explicitly stated it. Coming Back into the Cold! and Bonnie for the Defense! also try to hide their star Pokémon's possible death, even though a movie and the Espurr episode in the same series blatantly state it.

So why is the dub so wishy-washy on this subject!?

 

[garrison-san]

Most infamously we have Showdown in Pewter City, where Brock's mom is killed off in the dub (which turns out to be a big mistake on 4Kids' part, which they don't even try to fix in Chronicles).

I suspect that from 4Kids' perspective, a deadbeat mother would be considered more taboo than a dead one.

I couldn't speak for Japanese culture, but certainly in western culture it's typically considered more shocking for a mother to mistreat/abandon her children than it is a father. In early versions of Hansel and Gretel, the children were abandoned by their biological mother (in medieval Europe, such things were often a reality during times of hardship), but in later versions she became their evil stepmother, presumably to make the story less upsetting to sensibilities that didn't like the suggestion that a real mother could be so callous.

 

[Osprey]

It's characteristic for Western kids' shows to do everything in their power to avoid saying "death," "kill, or "die," and even if these things do happen, the death is rarely permanent. It's more unusual when you find a kids' show that DOES use these words without euphemisms, or even keeps anything that dies DEAD. I guess the whole concept has to be toned down in case some extremely sensitive mothers happen to see what their kids are watching.

 

[technickal]

It's characteristic for Western kids' shows to do everything in their power to avoid saying "death," "kill, or "die," and even if these things do happen, the death is rarely permanent. It's more unusual when you find a kids' show that DOES use these words without euphemisms, or even keeps anything that dies DEAD. I guess the whole concept has to be toned down in case some extremely sensitive mothers happen to see what their kids are watching.

I'm asking why they sometimes avoid death in the dub and sometimes emphasize it, not just why they avoid it.

 

[Hidden Mew]

To be fair in regards to the edit with Brock's mother, it's not like 4Kids knew that she would actually appear a few years later in a special side story episode. They probably wanted to avoid Brock having two parents who basically abandoned their children and there is a bit more of an issue with mothers abandoning their children than with fathers, at least in western culture, so I can see why they would make that change. There wasn't really much they could do to fix it when she did appear other than edit that line in the episode, which 4Kids rarely, if ever, did with their mistakes. Besides that, creating dub plot holes only to ignore them when the actual story contradicts those changes was pretty common with 4Kids. Giving Atem a name before the ending to Yu-Gi-Oh! DM and making Godwin the fifth Signer in 5D's were some of the biggest examples of dub plot holes that they just ignored completely later on.

Kid shows in general, at least in the U.S., try to avoid/downplay death. Characters that have already died might be okay to deal with, such as the women in the Espurr episode, but saying that a character could die might seem more problematic for some reason.

 

[technickal]

Kid shows in general, at least in the U.S., try to avoid/downplay death. Characters that have already died might be okay to deal with, such as the women in the Espurr episode, but saying that a character could die might seem more problematic for some reason.

Yet they say it all the time in movies. I guess it's different for the big screen?

 

[Muur]

I imagine murdering is less acceptable than dying of natural causes.

 

[Pokemaster97]

I imagine murdering is less acceptable than dying of natural causes.

That's the thought I've always had. It's not the actual phenomenon of "Death" that they seem to shy away from, but the violent acts that may cause it. When people die on shows and anime, more often than not, it's because of something violent or disreputable, not natural causes. That's when it becomes problematic imo.

 

[CynthiaLover]

I agree with Hidden Mew, most western shows (especially dubbed ones), are aimed for younger audiences, even if the general tone of the show/series is dark to begin with. The "Shadow Realm" is probably one of the biggest examples of an anime I know, no matter how dark to begin with, dodges such things as death with a "softer" form of it. So they try to omit death and such so that way they won't get bad ratings, lose their audience, and, perhaps, get chewed out by upset families and such. As for why the dub movies will not omit it, or at least as frequently, well, for starters, they may not be totally canon. Rarely do I see a situation where a movie and the mainstream anime tie in, the only examples I can think of are Dawn's Crescent Wing and Ash recognizing a Luxio and Lucario when he hadn't encountered one except in the movie prior to that episode. Secondly, the movies tend to be darker to begin with, and they're generally harder to remold into a "gentler" form, as they have a more precise script, so they have to go with the flow in those cases. So with movies they may be force to go with the stricter writing otherwise it may cost them big time. But, again, the western-type anime (or at least dubbed versions) tend to be geared to younger audiences, not older, or at least broader, ones like Japanese versions. So it's all about attracting the targeted audience without backlash or loss of ratings/profits that depends on such factors. So they tend to omit or at least lessen the element of death in order to "soften" the show in order to keep their desired audience. At least, that's how I see it.

 

[Galactic_V]

It's very odd that those anime shows aimed for kids'd be censored in the West while there're some Western cartoons that mentions death and even plays with it.

Take Total Drama for example, it's a kids' cartoon yet they're always making fun of death like "Death's not in your contract", "We're gonna die", "I'm gonna freaking die now!", etc... Weird that some shows can get away with those mentions while others (mostly anime) can't.

 

[Muur]

I agree with Hidden Mew, most western shows (especially dubbed ones), are aimed for younger audiences, even if the general tone of the show/series is dark to begin with. The "Shadow Realm" is probably one of the biggest examples of an anime I know, no matter how dark to begin with, dodges such things as death with a "softer" form of it. So they try to omit death and such so that way they won't get bad ratings, lose their audience, and, perhaps, get chewed out by upset families and such. As for why the dub movies will not omit it, or at least as frequently, well, for starters, they may not be totally canon. Rarely do I see a situation where a movie and the mainstream anime tie in, the only examples I can think of are Dawn's Crescent Wing and Ash recognizing a Luxio and Lucario when he hadn't encountered one except in the movie prior to that episode. Secondly, the movies tend to be darker to begin with, and they're generally harder to remold into a "gentler" form, as they have a more precise script, so they have to go with the flow in those cases. So with movies they may be force to go with the stricter writing otherwise it may cost them big time. But, again, the western-type anime (or at least dubbed versions) tend to be geared to younger audiences, not older, or at least broader, ones like Japanese versions. So it's all about attracting the targeted audience without backlash or loss of ratings/profits that depends on such factors. So they tend to omit or at least lessen the element of death in order to "soften" the show in order to keep their desired audience. At least, that's how I see it.

Ash remembers the Lugia from movie two when he sees that one in Johto

also Mewtwo if you count Mastermind and Mewtwo Returns