Why were people so unhappy at Ash's sendoff?

[Kathylikestoread]

It seemed fine to me, what was wrong with it? I had nothing against Ash wanting to go on another journey again.

 

[Mew2]

I think that people didn't like it because it wasn't really a conclusion for him. Team Rocket was not beaten and are still chasing him. The organization as a whole is still a power. We did not get to see many of his other traveling companions, particularly the Pokégirls, have any real conclusions, save for Lillie, who had her conclusion during Ultimate Journeys with the finding of her father, Mohn. He never had a meeting during Aim to be a Pokémon Master with May, Dawn, Iris, or Serena, though I could potentially forgive them with Iris and Dawn since Iris was in the Masters 8 and Dawn went to watch Ash in the Championship. As of the end of Aim to be a Pokémon Master, Ash is still going on adventures; it's just that we aren't seeing them anymore. And with Team Rocket still out there, it's unknown just what was accomplished during Aim to be a Pokémon Master. That is what I think people see as a problem with Ash's sendoff. That, and the fact that given how he was sent off, they could just bring him back either next saga, or in a future saga, like nothing happened and just continue his adventure from there.

 

[Eitarou]

There’s no single answer, but for a lot of people, there are many dangling plot threads that never got resolved.

The aforementioned lack of a proper Team Rocket defeat. The GS Ball was never acknowledged, let alone concluded. Ash never got his revenge on certain Trainers he never defeated like Tobias, he-who-shall-not-be named (Cameron), or Alain. Etc.

Aim to be a Pokémon Master was billed as the finale, but mostly ended up being a retread of Kanto. Now, that was most likely the intention (end the show by going back to its roots), but people were expecting something grander.





..Also something something Ash’s father.

 

[Falaish]

Ash's sendoff was fine, it was mostly Team Rocket and Giovanni which were left dangling. In a way I understand why they did it, removing Ash was a big risk and they had to see how Horizons was received. That way they could return to the Ash/TR formula in case Horizons failed or whatever. But since that didn't happen (and they'll likely use new characters every series after), they should conclude it.

What I'm hoping for is the 30th anniversary will have a movie or special featuring Ash's first big return, and they could use it for a big Giovanni and Team Rocket conclusion with them as the villains. Throw in some legendaries like Ho-oh who are connected to Ash, and have Ash use his older popular pokemon in the movie like Charizard, Greninja, Infernape, Sceptile, etc....and you'd have a satisfying conclusion special.

 

[RetroPokeFan]

Folks went in expecting it to be this big grand finale that was gonna tie everything up and be filled with returning faces and conclude everything and instead, as soon as the episode titles started coming out what they got was essentially filler episodes to stall for time until Horizons began a little later than usual for the anime.

To be fair this was the exact ending I thought they were gonna do with Ash to keep things open ended in case they ever plan on bringing him back in the future although it's probably not gonna be the case now that Horizons seems to be doing pretty well.

Probably didn't help that most of Journeys was crap.

 

[Tom1291]

And maybe Ash will catch some all the Pokémon that he didn't catch them for a long time such ad Flygon, Salamence, Aggron, Dunsparce, Magnezone, Rhyperior, Aegislash, Eevee, Teddiursa, Moltres, Zapdos, Articuno, Tentacruel, Sableye, Latias, Latios, Aerodactyl, Lunatone, Solrock, Weavile, Scolipede, Scizor, Houndoom, Steelix and other things

 

[Insanish Danish]

I thought the actual sendoff was fine - I personally think Aim to be a Pokemon Master was a nice, comforting way of ending Ash's time on the show and I had no problems with that. It's the fact that Journeys did not in any way feel like the final part of Ash's saga. It had no sense of finality and just felt like such a weird place for Ash's (and Team Rocket's) story to come to an end.

 

[Falaish]

I think peoples expectations were just too high especially since most of us had been watching the anime for over 20+ years and people already had tons of headcanons or fanfictions in their minds how they wanted the show to end.

JN did mess up two major things to make it feel like the end of Ash's adventure:

1. Ash not using any of his older pokemon, at least by the Masters 8.

2. Some ending for Giovanni/Team Rocket, showing TR retire/leave the organization rather than just following Ash still.

When you end Ash's adventure, the fact that his big old pokemon like Charizard, Infernape, Sceptile, Greninja, Bulbasaur/Squirtle, Corphish, Buizel, Hawlucha, the Alola team, etc. didn't contribute to his big victory feels odd and wrong. I thought for sure when focus was put on Infernape way back in the Moltres ep they were setting up for its return later. The fact that it didn't is baffling. Seeing them again in MPM was nice, but not in any major battles.

I think they handled the companions alright. Everyone got to return except May and Max. Most of the companions are either still working toward their goals or are in their endgame already. Sure Dawn could have had a new pokemon or whatever, but it was fine. Serena's ending was great, they were never going to make Amour completely canon. Misty/Brock, Cilan, Iris, Bonnie/Clemont and the Alola cast were all handled well. It's really only May and Max that got nothing, but I guess nothing could be done about that.

 

[-PokemonBattleFanatic-]

1. Ash not using any of his older pokemon, at least by the Masters

Charizard (The Original Main Powerhouse) denied not once but twice of making a comeback post AG. It came back in late BW but didn't face Reshiram like it did in the opening, it returned in JN but we only briefly find out about it having a scuffle with Infernape off screen. Charizard did nothing of significance since defeating that Articuno in AG. Pikachu essentially stole all of Charizard's opportunities to shine at the pokémon league and redeem itself after losing to that damn Dusclops.

 

[ii kanji]

The Rocket trio got the worst ending Not only was leaving it open ended for them a legitimately bad outcome, but their fake break-up/anticlimactic reunion in the final episode was painful to watch.

 

[-PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Charizard (The Original Main Powerhouse) denied not once but twice of making a comeback post AG. It came back in late BW but didn't face Reshiram like it did in the opening, it returned in JN but we only briefly find out about it having a scuffle with Infernape off screen. Charizard did nothing of significance since defeating that Articuno in AG. Pikachu essentially stole all of Charizard's opportunities to shine at the pokémon league and redeem itself after losing to that damn Dusclops.

Charizard Vs. Magmar

Charizard Vs. Poliwrath

Charizard Vs. Dragonair

Charizard Vs. Blastoise

Charizard Vs. Articuno

Charizard Vs. Latios

Charizard Vs. Lucario

Charizard Vs. Reshiram

Charizard Vs. MCX

Charizard Vs. Tapu Koko

Charizard Vs. G Max Charizard

DENIED

 

[Antiyonder]

I mean giving a story a pretty light ending where the character continues adventuring and leaving things open ended, not necessarily a bad idea.

Just maybe not for a story that went on for a couple decades and then some. It's the drawback of keeping a show going solely for ratings/profit.

Alternatively, Detective Conan which is more story based, arguably has an outcome which we are expecting. Which isn't necessarily bad. If it was to have ended 6 months after it began. But the more you keep a show going even with intentions to eventually end it, the more that some hype will generate.

Kind of like the episode bringing up Ash's father, which yeah isn't the main continuity, but still dealing with an aspect of Ash nonetheless. Had we gotten say a flashback and mention of him in the Indigo portion of the anime, you could get away with his dad not being too outstanding.

But keeping mum on the subject for decades and then some, it's pretty fair if something is expected.

 

[AmourshipperTommi]

I feel Ash should have retired after becoming world champion. There was nothing left for him. Had he gone to Paldea, it woul have devalued his PWC win.

 

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

I don't think that there's a single reason and more of a combination of a lot of factors. Among the most frequent complaints I have seen:

1. Some people think there wasn't enough finality to Ash's ending because a lot of things were left unresolved: Team Rocket (both the TRio and the organization as a whole) are still around and fully operational, Ash didn't get the chance to catch up with several of his companions leading to them not getting proper closure either, the fact that Ash never got to rematch several of the people who gave him his most humiliating losses (Alain probably being the biggest one in this specific category since he actually got to show up only for him to end up as Leon food), and finally the fact that Ash still isn't a Pokemon Master at the end, which leads into number two;
2. The reveal to what a Pokemon Master actually is was unsatisfying for a lot of people, since depending on how you interpret "someone who is friends with every Pokemon" it may come accross as downright impossible meaning Ash will never truly reach his goal.
3. The fact that even after becoming World Champion, the series still fell back into the old habit of taking the wind off the sails of a major win for Ash by having him lose a Pokemon battle shortly after, as he ended up being defeated by Misty in the epilogue in what would turn out to be his very last proper trainer battle in the series. Sure, Ash lost with a reserve instead of with Pikachu or a Journeys team member which mitigates the situation a bit, but that still leads to another problem;
4. A lot of people feel that Ash's reserves were not treated well after everything was said and done. Even apart from the Corphish loss mentioned above, the fact that Ash didn't use them to help in the PWC and only started rotating them in the epilogue is an especially sore point for many people, as many of Ash's Pokemon are beloved characters in their own right and to many it would've been nice to see them in action again after so long. Not to mention would've tied in well to this being the end of Ash's tenure and thus the culmination of everything he's learned. The fact that the team that Ash did actually end up using in the PWC was probably the one with the most rushed development and least well-established dynamic probably doesn't help either.
5. Finally, some people simply didn't want Ash's adventure to end at all, since he's been around for so long many are just too used to him being a constant presence in their lives, so him suddenly being gone is a pretty big adjustment to get accustomed to.

Now, while I personally do understand these complaints, and even agree with a few of them to at least some extent, I think for the most part they're either overblown or people were asking for too much: the fact of the matter is that the Pokemon anime wasn't really a series that had a specific story to tell or even a long-term plan beyond continuing to advertise the games as best it could for as long as possible, meaning most of it was essentially being made up on the fly and the longer it went on for, the more things started to accumulate, so sad as it is, it makes sense that by the time the staff realized that this was the end it really just wasn't possible for it to tie every single loose thread it had left over the years. There's also the fact that plenty of major characters, most notably May and Max, simply couldn't make a return due to their voice actors being retired, and with Japan having a very stringent culture around VAs the idea of replacements was always unlikely.

Honestly, in the end I think that most of the ending's problems simply boil down to the fact that it's the conclusion to a 25-year-long series, which is a lot of time for buildup and emotional attachment. Sad as it is to admit, it was probably always going to be disappointing for many people simply because the longer a series goes on for, the more and more expectations will accumulate until it ultimately reaches a point where for many it's going to fall short no matter what the ending does.

 

[RetroPokeFan]

the fact that Ash never got to rematch several of the people who gave him his most humiliating losses (Alain probably being the biggest one in this specific category since he actually got to show up only for him to end up as Leon food)

To be honest the only character I could have seen being brought back for Ash to beat was Alain. Tobias was nothing more than an Action Replay cartridge who only exist to beat Ash in Sinnoh and we knew so little about him it's kind of hard to even care about the dude at all while Cameron was an absolute joke of a character that they could have easily wrote off his defeat in mere seconds and it'd be enough to put smiles on our faces.

Yep, he's that bad that I'd just cut to the end of the battle and save everyone the hassle of seeing this stupid shitting twit again.

Even apart from the Corphish loss mentioned above, the fact that Ash didn't use them to help in the PWC and only started rotating them in the epilogue is an especially sore point for many people, as many of Ash's Pokemon are beloved characters in their own right and to many it would've been nice to see them in action again after so long.

The Gary episode is what gets me cause it looked like they were building up to something with Infernape since he was clearly eager to battle but then by the time the Masters Eight tournament begins, he's just relegated to watching the matches with the others at Oak's Lab and loses the only chance it had of getting a shot at Cynthia to Lucario (especially now Cynthia's Japanese VA has passed away so we'll never be seeing her again).

I feel like some of the old faves could have gone out on a good note had Ash rotated his team throughout the series so they all got a good chance to shine and then when the M8 stuff starts he truly brings out the big guns, the final Leon battle having all his major aces in one final hurrah (Pikachu vs Charizard playing out exactly the same).

 

[Daren]

Some people think there wasn't enough finality to Ash's ending because a lot of things were left unresolved: Team Rocket (both the TRio and the organization as a whole) are still around and fully operational

This is honestly one of the main things that annoys me; unlike the games Giovanni and TR gets away with everything they've done in the end and just remain as a major criminal organization to continue the non-TRIO's successful abuses and thefts. I really think they're worried they might have to bring Ash back and wanted to make an about-face as painless as possible.

A lot of people feel that Ash's reserves were not treated well after everything was said and done.

This is the other main issue for me and mostly ties into an ugly thing I've noted before; for all it's pretentions to friendship, the franchise mostly does treat Pokémon as disposable tools and commodities. Trading has been a thing since the first game, after all.

Honestly, in the end I think that most of the ending's problems simply boil down to the fact that it's the conclusion to a 25-year-long series, which is a lot of time for buildup and emotional attachment. Sad as it is to admit, it was probably always going to be disappointing for many people simply because the longer a series goes on for, the more and more expectations will accumulate until it ultimately reaches a point where for many it's going to fall short no matter what the ending does.

I think to a great extent the problem is exacerbated by the weird nature of the show trying to be both an arc-based series for each game and a continuing story.
A few years ago when I watched the new anime based off Dragon Quest The Adventure of Dai I couldn't help but compare how it handled adapting a popular game much more smoothly in comparison.

 

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

This is honestly one of the main things that annoys me; unlike the games Giovanni and TR gets away with everything they've done in the end and just remain as a major criminal organization to continue the non-TRIO's successful abuses and thefts. I really think they're worried they might have to bring Ash back and wanted to make an about-face as painless as possible.

Yeah, and it's a huge shame that they decided to "hold off" on such a glaring thing for the sake of future-proofing, since I just don't think it's a good idea to bring back Ash in a "pick back up from where we left off" way because... well, how the hell are they gonna go up from him becoming World Champion? Even with Team Rocket still around, that only really feels like it has steam for exactly one generational saga at the most, so when Ash takes care of that, what then? Would he just get shunted right back into the vault after one single generational return? Do we do another BW-style reset (which nobody liked then and will definitely like far less now seeing how "became World Champion" is a much bigger achievement than "did much better than everyone else against guy that won a regional League")? Do we make him defend his title which would run the risk of being too similar and repetitive with Journeys and would have a far less exciting conclusion? Do we introduce alien Pokemon trainers and reveal that Poke-Earth is actually super small potatoes compared to the rest of the universe meaning Ash and Pikachu now have to journey throughout outer space to train up so they can become strong enough to qualify for the much bigger and vaster Pokemon Universe Championship only for that to be rendered obsolete too with the Pokemon Multiverse Championship eventually?

Some people will say that since Ash's new goal is to go around befriending every Pokemon theoretically a return to him as the protagonist would focus on that, but the problem is that it may come off as way too boring and uneventful to be sustainable since at the end of the day, for many if not most people, Ash is the face of Pokemon battles in the anime, so seeing him return only for him to do barely any of the stuff that he's most known for will in all likelihood be nothing short of disappointing. Ash befriending Pokemon is perfectly fine for a winding-down epilogue, but probably not for a 3-year-long saga, much less a long-running series.

This is the other main issue for me and mostly ties into an ugly thing I've noted before; for all it's pretentions to friendship, the franchise mostly does treat Pokémon as disposable tools and commodities. Trading has been a thing since the first game, after all.

To be fair, I think the idea with trading was meant to be in the sense of forming bonds with other people in a "I trust you to take good care of my dear friend", the problem is that not everyone is good at making friends, and even if you are there's no guarantee that those friends will be fans of Pokemon themselves: it's telling that the whole trading issue didn't really start to be mitigated until the era of the internet allowed for greater connectivity and interactions with like-minded folk, but by then the damage was already done.

Still, I do agree that the franchise hasn't always been the best at truly encouraging fomenting bonds with Pokemon and is one of the chief reasons I wish the IV system was overhauled, even if to be fair the franchise has started to introduce methods like Bottle Caps that make this less of a problem.

I think to a great extent the problem is exacerbated by the weird nature of the show trying to be both an arc-based series for each game and a continuing story.
A few years ago when I watched the new anime based off Dragon Quest The Adventure of Dai I couldn't help but compare how it handled adapting a popular game much more smoothly in comparison.

Yeah, I think the Pokemon anime kind of shot itself in the foot by trying to have its cake and eat it in this regard. But hey, at least it did finally have the guts to bring Ash's journey to a close, and for all intents and purposes probably did it in the best way that it could with everything that was working against it.

 

[Daren]

Do we introduce alien Pokemon trainers and reveal that Poke-Earth is actually super small potatoes compared to the rest of the universe meaning Ash and Pikachu now have to journey throughout outer space to train up so they can become strong enough to qualify for the much bigger and vaster Pokemon Universe Championship only for that to be rendered obsolete too with the Pokemon Multiverse Championship eventually?

TBH I'd strongly consider buying a planet hopping Sci-fi Pokémon game.
I guess "ubers" are still stronger than trainers in the anime (arguably feels a bit like a gen 1-ism leftover when I think about it) but a story arc about Ash wanting to beat up a wild animal would feel sort of awkward.

To be fair, I think the idea with trading was meant to be in the sense of forming bonds with other people in a "I trust you to take good care of my dear friend", the problem is that not everyone is good at making friends, and even if you are there's no guarantee that those friends will be fans of Pokemon themselves: it's telling that the whole trading issue didn't really start to be mitigated until the era of the internet allowed for greater connectivity and interactions with like-minded folk, but by then the damage was already done.

I find the whole thing trading fascinating; the start of the idea was apparently inspired by Satoshi Tajiri and Ken Sugimori playing Dragon Quest II and after Sugimori got two copies of a rare item wishing they could give Tajiri the extra copy. Pokémon ended up shifting it to a mandatory mechanic for 100% completion instead (and I've read a few different stories on why that happened--one saying they originally wanted the game to be a highly randomized rogue-like, for instance, but they couldn't make it work at the time and multiple versions was their alternative, but other stories say it was to sell multiple copies to the same family).

Still, I do agree that the franchise hasn't always been the best at truly encouraging fomenting bonds with Pokemon and is one of the chief reasons I wish the IV system was overhauled, even if to be fair the franchise has started to introduce methods like Bottle Caps that make this less of a problem.

IVs are apparently gone in Champions, but no clue if that'll carry over or not.
Even outside that there's weird things like mythicals given out with limited release codes that result in these rare, powerful creatures being handed to you by a deliveryman, like an Amazon overnight delivery of the Loch Ness Monster.

Yeah, I think the Pokemon anime kind of shot itself in the foot by trying to have its cake and eat it in this regard. But hey, at least it did finally have the guts to bring Ash's journey to a close, and for all intents and purposes probably did it in the best way that it could with everything that was working against it.

To some extent I think after a quarter century (especially quite a few loose ends) you'd need a truly phenomenal writer to really stick the landing.

 

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

I guess "ubers" are still stronger than trainers in the anime (arguably feels a bit like a gen 1-ism leftover when I think about it) but a story arc about Ash wanting to beat up a wild animal would feel sort of awkward.

To be fair, I do think it makes sense for at least certain "ubers" to be too much even for the strongest trainers, specifically the ones that control at minimum planetary aspects like the oceans, the atmosphere, the landmass, the balance of the ecosystem, and so on since those things are way beyond the capabilities of "non-ubers" lorewise. To say nothing of the ones with outright cosmic influence and the Creator Deity itself. That said, with Roy being able to defeat and capture a Rayquaza in Horizons, it seems that even those guys are starting to get demythified as well, unless this specific Rayquaza is just vastly weaker than the one/s we've seen prior, and to be fair, the series does seem to treat this one more like how "lesser" Legendaries were treated in that they were still rare and quite a bit more powerful than a regular Pokemo but not completely invincible (eg. the Lati twins or Melmetal).

Honestly, the series has never been consistent with a lot of things, and how powerful Legendary and Mythical Pokemon are compared to regular Pokemon is one of them: about the only thing that has remained consistent with them is that they are definitely more powerful than regular Pokemon, but how powerful ranges from "with a combination of at least two of intensive training, sheer numbers, and endless chutzpah they're perfectly beatable, but you will struggle to do so" to "don't even bother trying, best you can hope to accomplish against these guys is a mild tickle"

Even outside that there's weird things like mythicals given out with limited release codes that result in these rare, powerful creatures being handed to you by a deliveryman, like an Amazon overnight delivery of the Loch Ness Monster.

I feel like this problem could be solved by simply giving Mythicals an unlockable plot with their event, which they used to do and did go back to it for Pecharunt, and hopefully that becomes the norm.

To some extent I think after a quarter century (especially quite a few loose ends) you'd need a truly phenomenal writer to really stick the landing.

And even then, the Pokemon anime never really had one singular writer with a clear vision since Satoshi Tajiri, as everyone who came after was mostly focused on keeping the boat afloat by any means necessary, so it sticking the landing perfectly was probably never going to happen anyway. So yeah, let's just be glad that what we got was actually pretty alright, because it really could have been so much worse and I feel that a lot of people don't realize much less appreciate that...

 

[ii kanji]

So yeah, let's just be glad that what we got was actually pretty alright, because it really could have been so much worse and I feel that a lot of people don't realize much less appreciate that...

I do agree that the ending was ok, but I’m curious as to your vision of how much worse it could have been - like what would that look like?