Will the anime be able to overcome this strife?

[Desdar300]

We all know that Ash lost the Kalos league to Alain, but you might not know is how bad the backlash is.
I know many may hand-wave and say "this is nothing new" but I've never seen Hype backlash quite this big for any past league finale. It's gotten so bad that even one of the writers had to come out and state that even he wanted Ash to win and Nintendo's already declining stock took yet another dive. To make matters worse is that because of the 20th anniversary this will stick out even more because Pokémon popularity is at a all time high so the series is receiving a lot more attention on a worldwide scale. Furthermore, this puts a rather sizable cavity on the anniversary that TPC have been trying to hype up made even worse by the fact the in Japan especially the show is the main marketing tool for the games. Equally important is that XYZ itself was having trouble in the ratings department (largely thanks to Yo-kai Watch) and good word of mouth was helping it out in that regard, but now that's gone. What personally makes upset is that there were kids watching this with their loved ones watched this together only to get hit with a big dose of disappointment . To finish off, I want to say that I have a friend that teaches in Japan and he told me that all of his kids kept talking about Ash Greninja, Ash Greninja, Ash Greninja and one of them even drew him a picture of what we all thought would've been the finishing blow to Zard X and I don't have to tell you'll how upset those kids were after the episode happened.
So my question is that can the anime bounce back from this or is it a little too late? How will this bold for the anime's own anniversary next year?

 

[Keshav]

Sure, kids like us are still watching it so yea xd
Not a big deal, it will be gone in like a week or 2.

 

[Handy Man]

We knew this episode would get a pretty big reaction regardless, positive if Ash won, and negative if Ash lost. The show decided to do the "bad" ending, and like some other things in this show, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It gives a terrible message and moral, it's a cop-out when multiple starus quos have been broken in XY, the taken damage ratio between Charizard and Greninja was heavily in Charizard's favor, and it's going to really make Alain even more unlikeable once he gets revealed to be a part of Team Flare in next week's episode. Add the fact that Ash gets captured and finds himself in a hopeless situation, and it's easy to see why this can leave a bad taste in our mouths.

The star of the show not only failed to defeat his rival after fighting him twice, he also went through a lot in XY that made it seem like he could overcome him. He even went through a depression arc with his Greninja, so was all of that for naught now? Is the message supposed to be spam training one Pokémon instead of multiple and you win? Why isn't there a moral consequence?

The ratings, as you said, have been falling for this show. The filns have also been having less viewers over the years. Ash winning when he was that close to doing so would have increased the ratings for sure. Maybe not by much, but people would definitely be interested in a succeeding protagonist. I know I would. However, ratings will continue to fall from here. No one will want to watch a show that throws away all character development just for one recycled tradition when a bunch of other traditions have been broken. I even watched every episode of XY too, and while there have been some questionable episodes, this easily takes the cake. I probably won't watch all of the Sun & Moon episodes and onwards, because everyone is going to be disappointed and the ratings will show it.

 

[Cresselia92]

I can't say for sure, however there is going to be a quite big amount of events that will follow the League:

- Some people will keep laughing at Ash and consider him a loser.
- Some people will laugh at the disappointed audience with a "told you so" attitude.
- Some people will be glad that this event happened.
- Some people will deem the anime unworthy to watch and leave it forever.
- Some people who have been brought back by the hype train will take another train and join the aforementioned people.
- Some people will watch the anime less often.
- Some people will become disillusioned by the franchise as a whole.
- Some people will try to move on, but keep bashing this League for the years to come.
- Some people will shrug off the events and try to enjoy the rest of the anime.

Basically, more or less the same things that happen after each League. This time, though, the effects may be way more evident and longlasting, due to the overall destruction en masse of hopes from hype-driven people, kids and adults alike. And this may be remembered as one of the worst moments of the anime, even after the meltdown will finally cool down.

Anyway, I may have found an interesting article about the League, even though I didn't understand most of it due to be in Japanese. If there is someone who could translate these it would be much appreciated.

Article about the post-League on T-Site
Potential Twitter post from an animator

If other people can find some more material, I would like to examine it. It could be a nice way to gauge the general reception of the anime and how influential it truly can be. Not to bash it, just out of curiosity.

 

[Mikuri]

If the anime bounced back from the Best Wishes series, it can bounce back from anything really. We went through three years of Ash acting dumber than he was in the original series and Iris -- aka the embodiment of annoyance -- simply existing. Ash losing the League is a cake walk.

 

[SammyW27]

Me, I figured it he'd lose. The chances of him losing were greater than the ones for him winning.

"If Ash wins the League, the Story is over"

That has been the mantra spoonfed to the creative team since Day 1. (Not to mention "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"). Them breaking tradition in other areas this saga did NOT mean he'd win the League, nor did him being at his best ever and no gyms/league next generation. Anyone who honestly thought he'd win this time was just setting themselves up for disappointment.

Besides, him making it to the Final is a major accomplishment unto itself. I for one am happy he made it that far. There is absolutely nothing wrong with coming in second place after a hard fought battle

 

[Cresselia92]

This whole "The story will be over if Ash wins" is pure baloney and we all know that. Winning a League doesn't mean that he can't keep traveling and aim to become a Pokémon Master. He didn't stop traveling after winning the Orange League or partaking to the Battle Frontier, so he surely wouldn't stop traveling if he were to win a League.

Ash winning would just mean that he is a step closer to his main goal, to the same objective that he has been aiming since day 1, and that could actually lead to some more development for his character, which has been very dry since the DP days. Why can't people hope to see Ash, the main character, actually develop instead of being stuck in a perpetual limbo where everything just circles around and leads nowhere?

It's like there is some kind of phobia in trying to create a compelling story with actual development. And before anyone says that "the anime is just a promotional tool", then I will just say that promoting things and creating a good story aren't mutually exclusive. You can very well promote things while having something with an actual continuity and where characters truly progress. Heck, just featuring Pokémon is itself a promotion.

Now I have no idea what will happen right now, if the delusion will be so great that kids will rather watch Yo-kai Watch and the ratings will plummet to the minimal ever recorded, or if the anime will manage to sponge the damage in some way. However, I personally believe that the anime as of now isn't using its maximum potential. It would be about time that they stop limiting themselves and actually see what the audience truly wants.

Serving the same dish with different spices will go that far. It's now time to renew a bit the menu.

 

[Garren]

It's weird because I imagine the next couple episodes are probably gonna pretty much establish that even though Alain won a trophy he's getting tricked by the villains and basically has no friends---Ash on the other hand will probably end up saving the day, and he's got a large group of friends who were cheering him on. Ash is the clear winner here regardless of the outcome of the match but a lot of folks seem to have trouble understanding that even though the first shot of the two crossing paths in XY&Z, Ash laughing with his friends and Alain sobbing, made that plot direction pretty clear.

But people will ignore this because he didn't win an official match. I hope the writers don't give in to fan demands here because I think the plot they did works a bit better than Ash simply winning.

 

[Shadao]

On normal circumstances, people would be rightfully upset if Ash has come so close yet so far in the League. However, the normal circumstances are not present in XY&Z. I was always curious as to why would the League happen before the Team Flare arc when normally, it should be the Team Flare arc first, followed by the League. Alain would learn his lesson much early on, and later appears in the League as a redeemed trainer who intends to fight Ash not for victory but for the excitement Ash brings to the battle. And that's where Ash-Greninja finally defeats Mega Charizard X.

Now it's clear why the League happen before the Team Flare arc. It was never the climax of the whole series, the Team Flare arc is. Ash didn't win because Alain is still poisoned by Team Flare's influence, focusing on winning at the cost of fun and enjoying. Would defeating Alain early on change that? I admit I said yes when I was certain Ash was going to win, but a part of me still harkens to my very old ideas of Ash redeeming Alain during the Flare arc and the two have a battle as means of atonement and rebirth for Alain.

Truthfully I say, the League plot twist is a brilliant writing onto itself. An intended audience reaction that worked all too well. Think about it. Soon after Alain wins, Team Flare attacks and destroys the city of Lumoise and everything goes to complete chaos. Not something you would associate with the League except for one: the Unova League of the Black and White games.

 

[Cresselia92]

But people will ignore this because he didn't win an official match. I hope the writers don't give in to fan demands here because I think the plot they did works a bit better than Ash simply winning.

Well, we will see if that plot twist will pay off. Personally, sacrificing the League, the climax and most important moment of the journey in a region, just for a villainous arc that will inevitably end with the victory of the heroes doesn't rub in the right way to me.

We will see if all of this has been worth it. If trailers and summaries are misleading once again and the whole buildup of the Team Flare arc ends up falling on its face, then I doubt there would be much that could salvage the finale of XY&Z.

Hopefully it won't end as anticlimactically as Team Plasma. Now that would be the final nail to the coffin, if it did happen.

 

[Silktree]

Saying that Ash losing works best for the storyline seems like an apologist's attempt to feel better about the show. Calling it a brilliant plot twist... is embarrassing.

Ash lost because they want to keep him around for the next series and they don't want him to win every single battle, which fans would expect once he won a league. Whatever final challenge awaits Ash in Alola probably won't be that different than the league tournament format.

 

[Shadao]

Saying that Ash losing works best for the storyline seems like an apologist's attempt to feel better about the show. Calling it a brilliant plot twist... is embarrassing.

Ash lost because they want to keep him around for the next series and they don't want him to win every single battle, which fans would expect once he won a league. Whatever final challenge awaits Ash in Alola probably won't be that different than the league tournament format.

An apologist's attempt to feel better? Truthfully, I never felt angry as much as I was shock and confused. Alain winning felt wrong, even by status quo standards. He learned nothing from the battle. And he's not even a long running main character so there's no excuse for him not to learn. It goes against every marketing and story convention that I come to expect from Pokémon that it hits me. The Team Flare Arc.

My first real reaction was anger, but not at Alain winning the League. It was anger to what Team Flare was about to do. And considering that Alain is the one who made that possible, some of that anger was redirected to him. Moreso than before because he is now the champion, the last person you would associate with an evil organization bent on destroying the world.

My point remains the same. Alain is unworthy to be champion and the show knows and plays with it.

 

[Silktree]

The show is not making Alain out to be this monster that you seem to think he is. He will fight Lysandre by the end of the arc.

In Alain's defense, Lysandre has had everyone fooled. And he does have a friend in Mairin, about whom he cares more than Ash cares about any of his friends, if to be honest.

 

[Keshav]

I think that Ash won't fight Alain in this arc.....instead, Alain will fight against Lysandre and will become one of the heroes. And Ash and him will part without Alain learning anything. The end.

 

[Mew2]

The show is not making Alain out to be this monster that you seem to think he is. He will fight Lysandre by the end of the arc.

In Alain's defense, Lysandre has had everyone fooled. And he does have a friend in Mairin, about whom he cares about more than Ash cares about any of his friends, if to be honest.

I can see this happening, too. And you are right. Alain does care about Mairin, far more than I think Ash cares about Serena, Clemont, and Bonnie. That is also the reason I think Alain won the Kalos League. I think that if Ash had been accompanied by Misty, May, Dawn, Brock, or Tracey, we'd possibly be seeing a different outcome since I think that he was closer to them than he has been to any of his more recent traveling companions.

 

[Shadao]

The show is not making Alain out to be this monster that you seem to think he is. He will fight Lysandre by the end of the arc.

In Alain's defense, Lysandre has had everyone fooled. And he does have a friend in Mairin, about whom he cares about more than Ash cares about any of his friends, if to be honest.

Of course, he's not a monster. He's a fool. And I know he has a tendency to blame himself over the bad things that has happen, even when he's indirectly responsible. That Z2 Zygarde destroying the city? That wouldn't have happen if weren't for Alain subduing it episodes ago. Though the others were fooled by Lysandre's benevolent facade, none of them did the work for him. As a result, Alain will blame himself for everything. And how does being a fool pawn translates to Alain being worthy as the Kalos League champion?

I can see this happening, too. And you are right. Alain does care about Mairin, far more than I think Ash cares about Serena, Clemont, and Bonnie. That is also the reason I think Alain won the Kalos League. I think that if Ash had been accompanied by Misty, May, Dawn, Brock, or Tracey, we'd possibly be seeing a different outcome since I think that he was closer to them than he has been to any of his more recent traveling companions.

Mairin and Alain only got to know each other shortly after Ash did his heroics at the Lumoise Tower at best. When they first met, Mairin is already talking about Ash from XY002. And Ash already bonded with the Lemon siblings by that point and will shortly meet Serena (a person from his past). Saying that Alain cares about Mairin more than Ash does for his XY companions is a big stretch and hypocritical at the very best.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I think that the show will be fine. There is more backlash for this decision than I thought there would be, especially from Japan, and I can understand that considering all of the the hype and how it made it look like Ash could win the Kalos League. I'm not sure if the backlash will be that long lasting. It might feel that way when the pain for fans is still fresh and we don't know how Alain's victory will play out during the Team Flare arc, but it will probably turn out fine. I think that the anime can recover from the backlash over time, especially if Alain winning turns out to be important to his character and/or the overall storyline during the Team Flare arc.

Although, I do wonder if the backlash would be the same if Team Flare interrupted the battle instead of attacking after the match was over. Admittedly, there probably would have been some amount of backlash if there was any outcome besides Ash winning since he was in the finals for the first time, but I can't help but wonder if the last battle being interrupted would have been more acceptable for fans than Ash flat out losing to Alain. At least that way, we'd be guaranteed a rematch, even if it was just Mega Charizard X vs. Ash Greninja again. We might get that anyway, but I think that the battle being interrupted could have made that more of a guarantee after Team Flare is taken care of and I don't think that the backlash would be as server as it is with fans.

 

[Zweilous]

Considering the reaction, while the show will move on, I think it will be a mark on the anime for some time. Whether it was due to the higher expectations by the fans or the hype made by the show, people took the loss a lot more strongly (ex. dislike bombing the preview for the next episode) and it has had a larger reaching effect then any of Ash's other losses, including the very controversial Tobias and the much hated Cameron. It also gave a large hit to the confidence fans had with Ash and the show overall, as at its crucial point, it stuck to the status quo when Ash had shown the most promise, which has finally caused the issue fans had with it to come to a head as it has now. Something like this doesn't go away easily, it will definitely last. How long it will last I'm not certain, but it's not something I feel will disappear quickly.

 

[p0pp1i0D3f3nd3r]

is whole "The story will be over if Ash wins" is pure baloney and we all know that. Winning a League doesn't mean that he can't keep traveling and aim to become a Pokémon Master. He didn't stop traveling after winning the Orange League or partaking to the Battle Frontier, so he surely wouldn't stop traveling if he were to win a League.

Ash winning would just mean that he is a step closer to his main goal, to the same objective that he has been aiming since day 1, and that could actually lead to some more development for his character, which has been very dry since the DP days. Why can't people hope to see Ash, the main character, actually develop instead of being stuck in a perpetual limbo where everything just circles around and leads nowhere?

I agree with you there, chum!!!!!!!!!!!

Admittedly, there probably would have been some amount of backlash if there was any outcome besides Ash winning since he was in the finals for the first time, but I can't help but wonder if the last battle being interrupted would have been more acceptable for fans than Ash flat out losing to Alain. At least that way, we'd be guaranteed a rematch, even if it was just Mega Charizard X vs. Ash Greninja again. We might get that anyway, but I think that the battle being interrupted could have made that more of a guarantee after Team Flare is taken care of and I don't think that the backlash would be as server as it is with fans.

I agree, I'D R-A-T-H-E-R have had Team Flare Interupt the Battle THAN HAVING ASH OUTRIGHT LOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Daren]

I'd be amazed if this kills the show, but it might hurt ratings, at least in the short term. The downvote bomb on TvTokyo videos wasn't promising.

The more I think, the more I wonder if this was the intended reaction like a few people have suggested, since they had Flare's attack happen at the end of the episode instead of starting in the next. Get lots of people to tune in then hopefully keep them hooked with the cliffhanger. Whether this works or not, and if it backfires, remains to be seen.

I think that the show will be fine. There is more backlash for this decision than I thought there would be, especially from Japan, and I can understand that considering all of the the hype and how it made it look like Ash could win the Kalos League. I'm not sure if the backlash will be that long lasting. It might feel that way when the pain for fans is still fresh and we don't know how Alain's victory will play out during the Team Flare arc, but it will probably turn out fine. I think that the anime can recover from the backlash over time, especially if Alain winning turns out to be important to his character and/or the overall storyline during the Team Flare arc.
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I think part of the reason the backlash is so large is that his success up to this point was being reported on video games sites and massive amounts of hype built up--how much of that was intended and how much wasn't is unknown. Supposedly, even quite a few people who'd stopped watching the show came in to stream this episode--after the long awaited victory didn't happen I'm not surprised by what happened. Scial media feeds this sort of thing.

Although, I do wonder if the backlash would be the same if Team Flare interrupted the battle instead of attacking after the match was over. Admittedly, there probably would have been some amount of backlash if there was any outcome besides Ash winning since he was in the finals for the first time, but I can't help but wonder if the last battle being interrupted would have been more acceptable for fans than Ash flat out losing to Alain. At least that way, we'd be guaranteed a rematch, even if it was just Mega Charizard X vs. Ash Greninja again. We might get that anyway, but I think that the battle being interrupted could have made that more of a guarantee after Team Flare is taken care of and I don't think that the backlash would be as server as it is with fans.

I suspect this would have weakened the firestorm, possibly by quite a bit, but not stopped it.