Workshop Directory

[Kyuuketsuki]

Just an idea I think might be helpful.

Why don't we make a directory thread for all the active stories? I often find myself trying to search for stories of a certain genre, and I think a directory listing all active stories and categorising them by genre would be helpful.

Of course, if such a thread is made, it would have to be constantly monitored, keeping active stories in the directory, and deleting those that hadn't been updated after a certain period of time. Maybe even have one just for the Archive, to make it easier to navigate.

I realise this is quite an ambitious and challenging project, but I do believe this could make the Workshop a little but smoother. What do you think of this idea?

 

[Legacy]

I think it's a great idea.

I know the staff had discussed a project like this in the past, but it never got off the ground. I too have wanted a way for people to browse the WW's active fics in a more organized and easier way, so I like the idea.

Any detailed ideas about how you guys would go about this would be helpful.

 

[Kyuuketsuki]

By just monitoring the Workshop using the 'Last Month' or 'Last 2 Months' limitation option. Each week or two, whoever is in charge of the Directory would use that option, and see which stories remain in the Directory, while any new additions are made as soon as the Story is updated/posted. They could be organised by genre, and those within one genre could be organised alphabetically, each with their own short summary from the author or one line review from a reader.

 

[Misheard Whisper]

I've seen this implemented on other forums, and it's usually user-run. That is, the first post of the Directory contains a form which authors need to fill in for each of their fics (containing title, link, summary, 1-3 genres etc). Users fill out that form and leave it as a reply to the thread, and whoever runs the directory adds them to the index (by genre, I guess). It makes things easier because you don't have to worry about constantly changing and updating it; well, you do, but the only things that need updating come from the posts in the thread. If an author wants to de-list their fic or have it show up as completed, for example, they can just post again and the thread organiser/moderator can just do that for them. The benefits also include taking some of the bother of finding and linking to stories away because the authors themselves have to provide that.

 

[AceTrainer14]

(Before I speak, your post automatically updated when I was reading it... I have never seen that happen before, and it was awesome )

I think this idea is pretty cool. I had an idea a few months ago of a Writer's Log where we could record all our stories by author, and then split up into Completed and Present, but it was turned down due to that catalogue thing that was being planned but has never happened. I am onboard for this, but I am not sure about organizing it by genre. Alphabetically, IMO, might make things easier and the stories can just have the genre listed beside them. That way, people won't just go "I'll go and find a journey/shipping/dark/etc story to read" and can just browse through. I think if a directory is done, a short sentence or two about each story should be included, by the author, to give people an idea of what it is about

 

[The Booty Warrior]

By just monitoring the Workshop using the 'Last Month' or 'Last 2 Months' limitation option. Each week or two, whoever is in charge of the Directory would use that option, and see which stories remain in the Directory, while any new additions are made as soon as the Story is updated/posted. They could be organised by genre, and those within one genre could be organised alphabetically, each with their own short summary from the author or one line review from a reader.

In that case, what if an author who knows that updating their story with a new chapter will usually take longer than one or two months? Could they notify a mod so that they could be listed under some category like "Older than two months" or something?

Could it be arranged so that authors have the option to let a mod know if they have a regular updating schedule and so could be categorized accordingly? Or would that be too much time and effort?

 

[Kyuuketsuki]

I've seen this implemented on other forums, and it's usually user-run. That is, the first post of the Directory contains a form which authors need to fill in for each of their fics (containing title, link, summary, 1-3 genres etc). Users fill out that form and leave it as a reply to the thread, and whoever runs the directory adds them to the index (by genre, I guess). It makes things easier because you don't have to worry about constantly changing and updating it; well, you do, but the only things that need updating come from the posts in the thread. If an author wants to de-list their fic or have it show up as completed, for example, they can just post again and the thread organiser/moderator can just do that for them. The benefits also include taking some of the bother of finding and linking to stories away because the authors themselves have to provide that.

That would work, but my fear is that if whoever is running the Directory would depend on the authors to tell them when their story is archived, which they can easily ignore or forget, and their story will remain in the 'Active Story Directory' when it is actually finished. Similarly, new users could overlook the thread, and end up not having their thread in the Directory.

(Before I speak, your post automatically updated when I was reading it... I have never seen that happen before, and it was awesome )

I think this idea is pretty cool. I had an idea a few months ago of a Writer's Log where we could record all our stories by author, and then split up into Completed and Present, but it was turned down due to that catalogue thing that was being planned but has never happened. I am onboard for this, but I am not sure about organizing it by genre. Alphabetically, IMO, might make things easier and the stories can just have the genre listed beside them. That way, people won't just go "I'll go and find a journey/shipping/dark/etc story to read" and can just browse through. I think if a directory is done, a short sentence or two about each story should be included, by the author, to give people an idea of what it is about

But by genre, it would be more efficient. for example:

Journey:

• A Long Journey by X
• Crying Trainer by Y
• Tribal Fares by Y

Shipping:

• Hearts by A
• Loving Partners by B

Dark:

• Morgue by Z

As opposed to:

• A Long Journey by X - Journey
• Crying Trainer by Y - Journey
• Hearts by A - Shipping
• Loving Partners by B - Shipping
• Morgue by Z - Dark
• Tribal Fares by Y - Journey

Because if a user wanted to just browse through, they could use the Workshop directly without the use of any Directory, as surely being able to hover your mouse over the thread to read a few lines of the introduction written by the author or the actual story, and seeing how many pages it has progressed and getting an idea on how many chapters there are would be much more helpful that seeing that story's position alphabetically.

In that case, what if an author who knows that updating their story with a new chapter will usually take longer than one or two months? Could they notify a mod so that they could be listed under some category like "Older than two months" or something?

Could it be arranged so that authors have the option to let a mod know if they have a regular updating schedule and so could be categorized accordingly? Or would that be too much time and effort?

Again, I'm not very optimistic about the idea of the manager of the thread to have to rely on users, they could just keep the story in the thread, remove it when the specified period has passed, and add it again after it is updated.

 

[AceTrainer14]

I admit alphabetically probably isn't the best way, but I feel genre could be too tricky. I think it wouldn't really encourage people to read other stories as a project like this should, rather reading in the same old genre. And, similar to the Writers Awards, there are bound to end up being squabbles about what genres should and should not be included. And what do you mean by having a few lines of the introduction appearing: is this for the directory or something the website does for you?

However it is sorted, I think that a sentence or two about each story would be a major part of this. One thing average browsing doesn't do is tell you anything about the story: it basically ends up being the internet equivalent of judging a book by its cover. If you just read the title, chances are it wont tell you much about the story itself (EG Harry Potter and the Philospher's Stone doesnt say anything about magical boarding schools and noseless mega villains). Adding a short description of each story would be a great way to make this project more useful.

 

[Misheard Whisper]

That would work, but my fear is that if whoever is running the Directory would depend on the authors to tell them when their story is archived, which they can easily ignore or forget, and their story will remain in the 'Active Story Directory' when it is actually finished. Similarly, new users could overlook the thread, and end up not having their thread in the Directory.

At the same time, though, it would be a ridiculous amount of work to keep it constantly updated. PC's Index, for example, works under the formula I just described and it seems to work just fine. It's been running for a couple of years, and it's quite comprehensive. It's stickied at the top of the forum, so it's prominent. I really don't think it's necessary to drop fics from the index if they've been dead for a month or two, so I don't see the problem with doing it that way. It makes it really easy for everyone - both the writers and the person running the thread.

 

[Legacy]

I obviously don't speak for everyone, but here are my thoughts:

I think sorting by genre is actually the best way to go about something like this. When I'm in the mood to read a new book or read a newspaper article or anything, it's because of the type of content involved. I know before I even get to the library that I'm in the mood for a mystery, or a romance novel, etc. I'm not simply going to walk into the library and start randomly paging through random books hoping to stumble upon something I like.

The alphabetical suggestion has merit, but I agree that if people just want to browse, they can already do that now.

I think we can reduce the "squabbles" about which genres to include with some conversation, compromise and teamwork.

Also, what if we created a thread to act as this "directory" but was completely closed and locked so that it was only the directory post with the fics listed to avoid confusion?

Authors would then PM the manager with the info (Title, Genre, perhaps a short 1-2 sentence synopsis like I've done for Pocket Monsters in my signature) who can then add it to the index. This admittedly would be a lot of work for the manager of the thread, but probably manageable if he or she has help.

@AceTrainer14 I'm sorry your idea got ignored and that the catelog thing never happened. I believe that was before my time on the staff :/ But hopefully this time around we can figure something out, as I love the idea of a directory or whatever we call it.

Great input everybody! Keep the discussion going!

 

[AceTrainer14]

It didn't get ignored: it got politely shot down Here is a link to the example I made that would have things split up by author, though I don't think this will work for this idea.

I just thought alphabetically was a lot simpler, and adding a short description would eliminate things being "randomly browsed" as then you can actually see what the story is about. I just think that genre has some issues attached to it, like a story being have multiple genres to it that it could get classified under (depending how we do things) or the author saying their story is a genre it most likely isnt (EG On FanFiction.net, shipping stories are immensely popular, and you are almost guaranteed views by labelling something as shipping)

I am also a bit iffy about the two month rule. Like some people have pointed out, there are a lot of fics that are still "active" yet dont get updated so regularly. It is quite easy for stories here to slip away when they dont get updated regularly, and something like this should keep those stories around so that this just doesnt focus on stories that are already regularly updated, leading to them already getting more readers.

Sorry if I am being a bit bothersome: I am just voicing my concerns, but I do love the idea of doing this and do hope this one actually goes ahead.

 

[Kyuuketsuki]

We could cancel the two month rule; it was mostly because I was afraid the thread would be cluttered with dead stories that are years old, and I definitely agree with locking the thread, because that would just cause pages and pages of clutter. And regarding the alphabetical order: it could work, but then again, even if all the genres were mashed together, I doubt someone who wants to read a Shipping story would click on a Dark story along the way to finding one, and multi-genre stories could be listed in more than one genre list. Regarding authors who lie about the genre of their story; it's not going to be automatic like FanFiction.net.

A moderator could check the story, give it a quick skim, before they edit it into the thread; and I have yet to open a thread that promised to be Journey and ended up being something else, so I doubt members of this forum would lie about the contents of their story.

Also, this is what I meant:

Spoiler

By hovering your cursor over the thread, you get more than just two lines.

And do you think we should have two threads, one for ongoing and one for archived, or one with the two groups labeled as such, or one with all of them mashed together?

I personally think we should have two threads, one in the Workshop and one in the Archive. It would reduce the number of stories in one thread, and make it easier to navigate. Also, I think we should have some sort of sign besides stories that are in the Review Exchange, as these two threads can be easily put together; they both serve the same general purpose, which is to increase readership.

 

[Misheard Whisper]

I don't get what's wrong with just having an open thread where the first post is the index and people can post to add/update fics in the archive. Far less work for the moderator, and no hassles about people who might not want their fic listed for whatever reason.

 

[Kyuuketsuki]

I'm only against the idea because it would create pages and pages of unnecessary posts.

 

[Aladar]

How about we mods just come up with a form for the users to fill, which they post in the designated thread and afterwards we just compile them in the very first post and place links to the authors' post. Upon updating the fic, the author will also edit his/her post and announce it, also adding the current date.

I think simplicity is best in this case.

 

[Kyuuketsuki]

But the goal of the Directory is for it to be a quick guide to the stories. Having each author write what they want in their post could make it work like a mini-Atlas, and it would require for those searching for stories to have to click through every link to get the summary, as opposed to having the few lines next to the story.

 

[Gama]

Just had a quick read through this thread and here are my thoughts:

Firstly, I'd like to say, AT14, apologies for your idea being declined for the upcoming catalogue. I think, like Legacy, that was before my time as staff. I think the reason it was declined was because the CMS library was being developed at the time. I'm on the CMS team and I can say development has severely slowed. I think there's no reason why we can't develop something thread based to use, even if it does get replaced when a better version is created by the library (which is something that is a very real possibility)


In terms of being done by a moderator or by user posts. I think it should be done by user posts with the mods simply updating the first post. Realistically, I think if it is down to the mods to keep an eye on all the fics in the Workshop and keep their statuses updated, that's just not going to happen. If this was a paid, full time job, that would be realistic but unfortunately it's a volunteer position that people need fit around their often already busy schedules and something like would take many hours a day.

Also, I think it would be quite simple and I don't think there's really an issue with there being pages and pages of extra posts if the one that everyone wants to look at is the first one.

I think sorting by genre is probably the best but I also agree with AT14's idea that a quick line of description would probably benefit - maybe limit it to two sentences or something like that.

I think we can ask users to request to be put into the directory, decide their own genre (I also think you should be able to go into more than one genre if you want), write their own description and update their story's "status" (ie. Is it completed or in progress?) The mods should only edit what users want for their own story if there are obvious signs of abuse (eg. Something that is clearly not shipping being put into shipping in an attempt to gain views)

Kyuu, as for your concern about people getting left out of the directory if they don't post. Well, if they don't post then obviously they don't care. We'll make announcements about it and anyone can feel free to recommend them to post but, ultimately, if after all that they don't ask to be put in, they obviously don't want to be put in that much and I think we should just make peace with that.

 

[Kyuuketsuki]

Okay then, does that mean that there will be one thread for both Ongoing and Archived stories? And what about the merging with the Review Exchange idea by putting some sign to signify that these stories are in the Review Exchange?

 

[Gama]

Well, we could have one of each and perhaps that would work better in case really old fics are clogging up the directory. Perhaps just completely separate in progress and completed but still have them within the same post? I think that could work.

Good idea about the review exchange too. The current Review Exchange thread is pretty underused and dead. We could have a symbol at the top that says "signifies that the author will give reviews in exchange for reviewing this fic" and put that symbol next to authors who want it. That could revitalise the whole Review Exchange system, which would be good.

 

[Kyuuketsuki]

Sounds good to me so far. Now to agree on the issue brought up earlier; the genres.

Since it is just a record, and not the awards, I think it would be fine to be specific in the genres, such as having Dark, Crack, and Comedy as opposed to just one Other genre. The obvious ones will be Journey, Shipping and Expansion.