Would the show's quality improve if old characters were brought back?

[megaevolvedmushroom]

Will automatically improve the quality of the show, or at least make it more enjoyable for you? Whether your missed character is May, Dawn, Brock, Misty, or even Max or Tracey, do you think their presence will improve the show? Why or why not?

Personally, I think having Misty, Tracey and/or Brock will make it more enjoyable for me, but I don't think it will automatically make it good, considering the show now has other (and bigger) problems than a character not being there. At least one of them being there might fix a few personal gripes I have with it, but not all of them. It would really depend on how they handle them now.

What do you think?

Edit: It didn't go through when I tried to post it in the Pokemon League, can someone move it there? Thanks in advance.

 

[Karamazov]

Re: For those who miss old characters from Brock-Dawn, do you think bringing them bac

Threads posted in the Pokemon League are put under moderation until the anime staff decides on whether or not it belongs there. If this thread here fits in the League, we will move it and notify you. :> Secondly, I'm going to change the thread's title to make it more indicative of the thread's topic.

Now, on the topic of the thread, no. Outside of cameos and special episodes, I don't think they should come back. Those characters had their chance to shine, and I think the show should concentrate on newer characters.

 

[Cybersai]

Re: For those who miss old characters from Brock-Dawn, do you think bringing them bac

Not at all. It depends on if the actual episodes they're in are good.

Dawn just returned and many feel her cameo was disappointing and wasted, so there you go.

 

[John Understands]

No.

Remember the Dawn miniarc?

There's your answer.

 

[agramugl]

No, bringing them back won't inherently make the series better.

...but bringing them back with a good story, good intentions, and when in a natural, not forced into the plot for fanservice way? Yeah, I'd see that.

The problem with many of the cameos that have happened is that the characters aren't always organically woven into the story. I would LOVE to see Misty appear again on the show personally, but there needs to be a reason why she should come back from Kanto beyond just missing Ash. Like, something to build up to. Like, a multi-episode arc across regions. THAT would be cool!

...then again, I just love epic story lines...

No, bringing back characters won't be an inherently good idea unless good writers do the episodes.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I don't think that the show would improve just because they bring back older characters. Dawn's cameo episodes in BW were generally considered bad and her entire cameo felt pointless as a result. The quality of the episodes themselves matter more than if they bring back older characters or not. Personally, I wouldn't want them to return to the main cast for more than a cameo or special. While it would be nice to see some of the older characters again, I prefer to see some new characters get a chance to shine and develop, instead of the writers trying to do more with older characters when they already had most of them for at least one series.

 

[SammyW27]

Nope. Bringing back old characters won't do a thing fix bad writing & characterizations

 

[BugMite]

Under normal circumstances, no. To echo what has already been said - bringing back older characters won't automatically make the anime more enjoyable, either from a personal or writing standpoint.

Characters =/= Writing

 

[97SaturnSL1]

NOPE! See Dawn's set of new episodes and some of the episodes past BW083 that feature some older gen pokemon such as Buizel and Corphish. Reappearances are meaningless in quality if the writing still is bad

 

[Adil]

It depends upon the writers, in my opinion.

 

[megaevolvedmushroom]

Just to make something clear, I'm not so much asking if slapping an old character or two into the show as a desperate ratings trap will make it better just because they're there, as much as I'm asking if having them will improve the overall show, if they add something to it? For me, certain aspects will be improved, but at the same time, the show has other (and bigger) problems, as stated before.

 

[Cybersai]

Other than being fresh for a little while, the characters would go back to being as stale as they were when they left. The same problems those characters had in the end of their run would be back because there would be no difference.

 

[megaevolvedmushroom]

Other than being fresh for a little while, the characters would go back to being as stale as they were when they left. The same problems those characters had in the end of their run would be back because there would be no difference.

The writers have improved at certain aspects, so staleness shouldn't be a problem now, right?

 

[Cybersai]

Other than being fresh for a little while, the characters would go back to being as stale as they were when they left. The same problems those characters had in the end of their run would be back because there would be no difference.

The writers have improved at certain aspects, so staleness shouldn't be a problem now, right?

Considering all characters other than Tracey got at least 200 episodes of screentime and most of that was spent with them just standing on the sidelines while Ash did everything, I don't see the difference.

Even Iris and Cilan have only marginally developed since their debut episodes, and they're new characters. With BW ending in 7 months and both probably leaving the show soon, it doesn't even feel like either was used to their full potential.

 

[Caseydia]

Who's thread is this now I'm wondering? No. It wouldn't change anything. Infact it could make it worse. Since most have a hard time dealing with some characters on for a certain amount of time especially if they aren't doing much or doing too much, tend to be abit sore. I just want a balance with new characters. The old ones had their shots so what good will it do for Ash's sake to bring them back?

Just to make something clear, I'm not so much asking if slapping an old character or two into the show as a desperate ratings trap will make it better just because they're there, as much as I'm asking if having them will improve the overall show, if they add something to it? For me, certain aspects will be improved, but at the same time, the show has other (and bigger) problems, as stated before.

Sticker, they are already bringing old characters back. What do you suppose Charizard and Professor Oak is? and no, the rating might not still go up if all old characters were to appear if the writing is still bad.

Even Iris and Cilan have only marginally developed since their debut episodes, and they're new characters. With BW ending in 7 months and both probably leaving the show soon, it doesn't even feel like either was used to their full potential.

Gliscord, that's because they are game Unova regional characters. However, if they were to stay into another region, it might make them worse off. As far as potential goes, Iris is pretty much done. There really isn't much for her to do other than actually train Axew. And Cilan doesn't need anymore potential. He is above his rival and pretty much a perfectionist is a sort of way.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

While bringing older character won't necessarily increase quality right away, it would soil groundwork for more continuity based anime, more coherent and eventful story providing connections to past regions Ash traveled through and give new viewers insight to better understand history.
As well create plot/entanglement with stable cast which can be expanded and build upon getting transferred to next regions, due to foundations being already made during their first run.

Which would allow target demographic to get know better such character bringing benefit of attracting more of older audience back to this show through word of mouth and hype such twists make, which eventually generates bigger number of viewers and as final result more money.

Considering how previous characters which has solid groundwork and ironed out to extent their story already know main protagonist Ash from before with form of friendship, connection being already established in past creating environment for interactions and their growth to actually be more profound/different than we see with new characters which join cast with flashbacks and references to past becoming stronger. Due to strong connections they have with anime history and past regions making plot more driven like we follow in other anime.

With older companions you can have them go on bigger, better things, you can have friendship between protagonists grow stronger since they already share history together, introduce more complex obstacles to overcome and have better on going story which gradually grows over course of series. As opposite to basic, going from zero overused concept we got used to follow with novice companions.

Such as continuation of Dawn contest journey, Misty advancing her goal of becoming water master building up on water team which left lot more to be desired, Max starting out journey getting starter etc? And ill readily admit how i miss some of this characters like Misty and her multisided personality bringing lot of comedy, fierce clash and sarcastic inputs which could lift chemistry to be more spicy and endearing with her around imo.
For once i think it would be infinitely more interesting for change to receive continuation of already established and experienced companion going through more substantial growth being refreshing breath of fresh air from usual formula we got used to. Of constantly bringing new companions which go through basic, formulaic growth leaving unfinished with lot of potential ending wasted.

New characters are sometimes needed to bring breath of fresh air in show, but sometimes revival of older companion can bring new life to main series and provide something new, and turbulent to structure of anime through build up on established story of fan favorite allowing us to see him taken in new, exciting directions. Something new characters can't provide setting ground for better glued storytelling.

Which as result means more stable cast, filled with continuity storyline and on going compact plot strengthening its connections to past making for better written and engaging anime.

p.s. No pun intended but pokemon anime definitely had higher quality when Misty or May persay were in main cast compared to mess we have now in BW. Of course that doesn't mean it was because of characters only, but looking back their stories and personalities did added more seasoning and more compact story so to speak.

Lastly using Dawn cameo as indication of anything is really, really weak reasoning considering how it was pretty much known from start how bringing coordinator in region without contests doesn't exactly allow to do anything with his/her story.

Now, on the topic of the thread, no. Outside of cameos and special episodes, I don't think they should come back. Those characters had their chance to shine, and I think the show should concentrate on newer characters.

Such approach makes you wander how many more new companions do we really need?
I say give new characters their part, while also keep older characters relevant doing continuation of their story.

Return of someone shouldn't be determined through number of episodes he was put in, but in how relevant he would be to current story and if his return would help to advance it forward or not.
Phrase "they had their time" doesn't mean it would be mistake to "extend such time" developing them more, and its always fresh and nice to see all time favorite return getting update going through new directions. Which would make fans become more loyal toward show respecting such gestures.
Its real waste to drop potential they have to do more, instead of utilizing it in productive manner for their stories.

Considering all characters other than Tracey got at least 200 episodes of screentime and most of that was spent with them just standing on the sidelines while Ash did everything, I don't see the difference.

Even Iris and Cilan have only marginally developed since their debut episodes, and they're new characters. With BW ending in 7 months and both probably leaving the show soon, it doesn't even feel like either was used to their full potential.

Dunno about you but Misty got some notable growth during her run which got expanded in chronicles(more than any other sidekick did), regardless of all imperfections happening during her run. So did May and Dawn for instance getting quite a lot of growth.

Also reason why characters never develop to full potential is not surprising in show like pokemon which so often and fast replace companions. No one stays long enough to reach his apex, and when adding into that other factors like writers inexperience especially in earlier sagas when they still learned or plots surrounding character suffering from other problems not having enough substance to go much forward like Max due to being too young to have pokemon its no surprise why no one was used as much as it could have been possible.

Likewise there is no reason to believe how writers would bring back older character and make him main companion again just to have him stand in background not doing anything. Just like any new character which is introduced captures people interest feeling fresh, after long absence that same effect could create previous companion when given continuation of his story.

I believe writers having more than enough time on their hands regarding long time gone characters to learn on mistakes. To be more precise years.

As far as characterization goes that's not problem either . Misty was always interesting full of life character to me and she was highly enjoyable in chronicles and cameos producing great interactions with Daisy, Tracey, Ash or Max. So did May when coming in DP having great interacting with Dawn, Ash, heck even Brock to some smaller extent. Both characters actually lifted up chemistry and dynamic there to more enjoyable level proving how writers know how to write such characters in enjoyable and worthwhile manner.

If your going to bring back previous companion for longer return and not just small appearance, its in writers interest to provide plausible way behind his comeback and put effort into his story which prompted return to perceive him memorable and appealing to not only older but new generation of viewers as well. Since whole purpose behind his/her revival is to provide some unexpected twist and change from usual pattern to bring something fresh and unpredictable to fans.

After all for example isn't that whole point behind Charizard return now?

 

[megaevolvedmushroom]

While bringing older character won't necessarily increase quality right away, it would soil groundwork for more continuity based anime, more coherent and eventful story providing connections to past regions Ash traveled through and give new viewers insight to better understand history.
As well create plot/entanglement with stable cast which can be expanded and build upon getting transferred to next regions, due to foundations being already made during their first run.

Which would allow target demographic to get know better such character bringing benefit of attracting more of older audience back to this show through word of mouth and hype such twists make, which eventually generates bigger number of viewers and as final result more money.

Considering how previous characters which has solid groundwork and ironed out to extent their story already know main protagonist Ash from before with form of friendship, connection being already established in past creating environment for interactions and their growth to actually be more profound/different than we see with new characters which join cast with flashbacks and references to past becoming stronger. Due to strong connections they have with anime history and past regions making plot more driven like we follow in other anime.

With older companions you can have them go on bigger, better things, you can have friendship between protagonists grow stronger since they already share history together, introduce more complex obstacles to overcome and have better on going story which gradually grows over course of series. As opposite to basic, going from zero overused concept we got used to follow with novice companions.

Well said. That's one of the reasons I will always prefer Johto to later regions.

p.s. No pun intended but pokemon anime definitely had higher quality when Misty or May persay were in main cast compared to mess we have now in BW. Of course that doesn't mean it was because of characters only, but looking back their stories and personalities did added more seasoning and more compact story so to speak.

Agreed. It's not only the character, but she really brought life to the cast, same with Brock before AG/DP started.

Lastly using Dawn cameo as indication of anything is really, really weak reasoning considering how it was pretty much known from start how bringing coordinator in region without contests doesn't exactly allow to do anything with his/her story.

Exactly. It wasn't Dawn's fault her cameo sucked, despite having 8 episodes, it was the circumstances surrounding it.

Such approach makes you wander how many more new companions do we really need?

I'll answer that: No more.

I'm open to new things, but not when it wears out its welcome, and not if it's done poorly. For me, the AG cast really wasn't all that fresh, since character replacements have been done before. Unexpected, yes, but not fresh.

Return of someone shouldn't be determined through number of episodes he was put in, but in how relevant he would be to current story and if his return would help to advance it forward or not.

Agreed. Dawn had 8 episodes, but did nothing of interest.

As far as characterization goes that's not problem either . Misty was always interesting full of life character to me and she was highly enjoyable in chronicles and cameos producing great interactions with Daisy, Tracey, Ash or Max. So did May when coming in DP having great interacting with Dawn, Ash, heck even Brock to some smaller extent. Both characters actually lifted up chemistry and dynamic there to more enjoyable level proving how writers know how to write such characters in enjoyable and worthwhile manner.

Not to mention Dawn had enjoyable interactions and a fun personality (more than DP), even though she did nothing of interest in Unova.

If your going to bring back previous companion for longer return and not just small appearance, its in writers interest to provide plausible way behind his comeback and put effort into his story which prompted return to perceive him memorable and appealing to not only older but new generation of viewers as well. Since whole purpose behind his/her revival is to provide some unexpected twist and change from usual pattern to bring something fresh and unpredictable to fans.

After all for example isn't that whole point behind Charizard return now?

I couldn't have said it any better myself

★stickerstaryoshi☆

 

[Pokémon Master Ash]

Honestly, I doubt it. Judging from how the writers have been doing with TRio in Best Wishes and Brock in Diamond and Pearl, I'm afraid to think of what they'll do to many of the older characters if they return.

Keep in mind the dub voices are all different for said characters if they return, so that doesn't really make it as enjoyable if they return. For example, Bill Rogers is a tolerable-good Brock, but he's not Eric Stuart's Brock (which IMO, is incredible/amazing). Michele Knotz is an alright Misty, but she's not Rachael Lillis' Misty. Honestly, it'll feel kind of crappy hearing the characters sound way off from when I find them most enjoyable/entertaining.

Not to mention many of their personalities have undergone changes in general since they were introduced. Misty is no longer as spunky or tomboyish as before (a tad more subdued- which I like more, actually, in some ways), while Brock has gone kind of stale due to bad writing and he has been a lot more in the shadows since DP.

The show's quality COULD improve if they were brought back, but to me only if: 1) the writers do a good job with it, 2) their personalities are made very likeable, and 3) if their original dub voices can be brought back (which is unfortunately never happening now, but IMO, it would make it better). The first two conditions are a must, and the third merely for the sake of making me crack a genuine grin. XD.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

Honestly, I doubt it. Judging from how the writers have been doing with TRio in Best Wishes and Brock in Diamond and Pearl, I'm afraid to think of what they'll do to many of the older characters if they return.

To be fair outcome of specific character doesn't mean how that same outcome would happen to another. For example Iris and Cilan while could have used more growth not being treated properly are handled far better than Brock was in DP.
It depends mostly on how active and flexible character story and traits which define him are when factoring how much focus and relevance to play hes gonna get.
There is difference between long running characters which are here for multiple generations and ones which were absent for years in case of being tempted to come back.

Since with them writing staff needs to put more effort, provide legit way behind reintroduction and make sure to have them become appealing not only to today kids growing attached to them, but also older generations whose interest might be catch again in case their favorites were brought back deciding to tune into anime again.

Its no secret how unexpected return of older characters bring excitement and hype which none of new ones could because of established popularity, already developed story allowing to pick up and do continuation to add new life to them which form postulate to add extra flavor to main series, making them even better. So utilizing them in more notable manner could prove to be good business move.

Not to mention many of their personalities have undergone changes in general since they were introduced. Misty is no longer as spunky or tomboyish as before (a tad more subdued- which I like more, actually, in some ways), while Brock has gone kind of stale due to bad writing and he has been a lot more in the shadows since DP.

If you ask me growth certain characters experienced had only made them more appealing in some ways adding extra flavor in form of new traits to already established personality, while keeping interesting spark of theirs. For example Misty have matured becoming more tough and independent allowing to evolve as trainer(Gyarados is testament to this). While still showing lot of spunk and fire, being playful and snarky in more "grown up" way.

And because of development they went through allows to create long lasting, strengthened friendship between Ash and previous companions building up on their relationship making for more engaging unexplored dynamic in this show. Which would immediately make this show more unpredictable and fresh.
As opposite to same old cliche formula at start of every new generation; "Ash meets 2 new people, develop simplified friendship leaving in four years erasing impact they left on his life, story etc" rinse and repeat.

Nevertheless create environment for more glued storytelling, treating pokemon series like actual entity which develops on established story, adventure aspect and friendship between companion being given more texture.
Unlike poorly defined and badly written show we have now imo compound of fragmented continuity, lack of cohesive story and very little attention toward past and previous characters with fragmented pieces of development scattered all over the place with no real plot or history behind itself.

Speaking of Brock, he indeed had been neglected and overshadowed in DP due to too much emphasis being out on Dawn and Ash careers excluding him out of group dynamics, but i i can say he was still likable and very entertaining when put in center of attention being irrational, funny, and caring putting lot of effort into pokemon.
Every character which may have be stale for some with right vision in writers mind, new subplots made with attempt of shaking him up and provide new, fresh aspect to it can retrieve lost charm becoming enjoyable again. Something i believe his new doctor career enables bringing new life on character to take him in new, unexplored ways.

So while return of older companion wont resolve all problems it would create positive environment serving as stepping stone toward better written, more engrossing show imo.
Maybe its just coincidence but almost every other show which don't cycle constantly characters having stable cast usually has more engaging story, better on going plot and consistent following which keeps its ties to past and already accumulated growth characters went through doing upgrade taking narration to more attractive level.

The show's quality COULD improve if they were brought back, but to me only if: 1) the writers do a good job with it, 2) their personalities are made very likeable, and 3) if their original dub voices can be brought back (which is unfortunately never happening now, but IMO, it would make it better).

As far as voices goes imo older VAs definitely conveyed character emotions in more profound, natural manner but im on same page as you and could live with new ones for older companions as long they are well written bringing entertainment to show and provide something new, exciting for this show moving it forward. Something i have very good reason to believe because of all aforementioned reasons.

However by all means if possible i wouldn't object to original VA's being surely additional plus.

 

[Pokémon Master Ash]

Honestly, I doubt it. Judging from how the writers have been doing with TRio in Best Wishes and Brock in Diamond and Pearl, I'm afraid to think of what they'll do to many of the older characters if they return.

To be fair outcome of specific character doesn't mean how that same outcome would happen to another. For example Iris and Cilan while could have used more growth not being treated properly are handled far better than Brock was in DP.
It depends mostly on how active and flexible character story and traits which define him are when factoring how much focus and relevance to play hes gonna get.
There is difference between long running characters which are here for multiple generations and ones which were absent for years in case of being tempted to come back.

Since with them writing staff needs to put more effort, provide legit way behind reintroduction and make sure to have them become appealing not only to today kids growing attached to them, but also older generations whose interest might be catch again in case their favorites were brought back deciding to tune into anime again.

Its no secret how unexpected return of older characters bring excitement and hype which none of new ones could because of established popularity, already developed story allowing to pick up and do continuation to add new life to them which form postulate to add extra flavor to main series, making them even better. So utilizing them in more notable manner could prove to be good business move.

Not to mention many of their personalities have undergone changes in general since they were introduced. Misty is no longer as spunky or tomboyish as before (a tad more subdued- which I like more, actually, in some ways), while Brock has gone kind of stale due to bad writing and he has been a lot more in the shadows since DP.

If you ask me growth certain characters experienced had only made them more appealing in some ways adding extra flavor in form of new traits to already established personality, while keeping interesting spark of theirs. For example Misty have matured becoming more tough and independent allowing to evolve as trainer(Gyarados is testament to this). While still showing lot of spunk and fire, being playful and snarky in more "grown up" way.

And because of development they went through allows to create long lasting, strengthened friendship between Ash and previous companions building up on their relationship making for more engaging unexplored dynamic in this show. Which would immediately make this show more unpredictable and fresh.
As opposite to same old cliche formula at start of every new generation; "Ash meets 2 new people, develop simplified friendship leaving in four years erasing impact they left on his life, story etc" rinse and repeat.

Nevertheless create environment for more glued storytelling, treating pokemon series like actual entity which develops on established story, adventure aspect and friendship between companion being given more texture.
Unlike poorly defined and badly written show we have now imo compound of fragmented continuity, lack of cohesive story and very little attention toward past and previous characters with fragmented pieces of development scattered all over the place with no real plot or history behind itself.

Speaking of Brock, he indeed had been neglected and overshadowed in DP due to too much emphasis being out on Dawn and Ash careers excluding him out of group dynamics, but i i can say he was still likable and very entertaining when put in center of attention being irrational, funny, and caring putting lot of effort into pokemon.
Every character which may have be stale for some with right vision in writers mind, new subplots made with attempt of shaking him up and provide new, fresh aspect to it can retrieve lost charm becoming enjoyable again. Something i believe his new doctor career enables bringing new life on character to take him in new, unexplored ways.

So while return of older companion wont resolve all problems it would create positive environment serving as stepping stone toward better written, more engrossing show imo.
Maybe its just coincidence but almost every other show which don't cycle constantly characters having stable cast usually has more engaging story, better on going plot and consistent following which keeps its ties to past and already accumulated growth characters went through doing upgrade taking narration to more attractive level.

The show's quality COULD improve if they were brought back, but to me only if: 1) the writers do a good job with it, 2) their personalities are made very likeable, and 3) if their original dub voices can be brought back (which is unfortunately never happening now, but IMO, it would make it better).

As far as voices goes imo older VAs definitely conveyed character emotions in more profound, natural manner but im on same page as you and could live with new ones for older companions as long they are well written bringing entertainment to show and provide something new, exciting for this show moving it forward. Something i have very good reason to believe because of all aforementioned reasons.

However by all means if possible i wouldn't object to original VA's being surely additional plus.

I agree for the most part. The writers just need to step up their game. If they do, then I'm all for the return of older characters.