Would you have rather had Z or ORAS knowing only one would exist?

[sc190191]

I don't think they had to be exclusive, but it sure is a lot to ask to churn out a new game every year, with as in depth as they are. Z would have probably been released in late 2015, but lets just say only one of them could have been released. The reason I made this is because I have seen a lot of disappointment (myself included) that Z wasn't released, so I am curious if people would have rather had Z than ORAS. This is hypothetical, I understand it would have been possible for both to exist, but that isn't the point of this thread.

If given this ultimatum I think I am happy with having ORAS. I do wish Kalos were bigger and given more cities, but playing Kalos twice in a row isn't as exciting as getting to explore Hoenn again in Gen VI fashion. If remakes continue then we may get a revisit to Kalos in the 2025-2030 range (wow seems crazy to say that), but this may have been the last chance for Hoenn. ORAS wound up being a very good game (although I have never been disappointed with a Pokemon game and I'm sure Z would have been cool too) and it introduced a number of cool new things. Of course it wasn't without faults, but in hindsight I am glad to have had ORAS, and if given the choice between it and Z, I would choose ORAS.

Sorry if this thread is similar to something else/redundant.

 

[Blockhead Pippi]

ORAS was by far the better choice here. RSE feels like a very outdated and badly aged set of games to me personally. They had some good ideas and introduced us to a generation that really helped push the limits and evolve Pokemon's capabilities, but they otherwise felt lacking and subpar on their own. I think this was more a problem with Generation III games in general because I have similar issues with FRLG. Bottom-line I just found RSE to not be very spectacular and even boring in some regards, it's hard for me to really get into them without trying. ORAS I think helped to give the RSE games a much needed polish and update. It certainly feels a lot more interesting and fun than the original.

Pokemon Z would have just been another third-version with a few additions and changes to the plot. ORAS was certainly in far more demand and needed. We got a lot more out of it than what Z could have given us.

 

[Gengarzilla]

Generation VI as a whole... still feels unfinished. Once the Zygarde forms are taken out of the equation though, I can definitely say that ORAS has been a greater step in the right direction than our hypothetical Z.

 

[Esserise]

OR/AS, by far. Because, for whatever problems I have with X/Y and OR/AS, together they make a pretty good pair of games. Regarding X/Y specifically, they feel to me like perfectly competent, well-rounded games in all but two areas. The storyline is only lukewarm, but storyline doesn't really matter in Pokémon. I say that as a very storyline-oriented person who loves arcs and mythology, but with Pokémon, a thorough storyline is a luxury. It's not something I can really expect every time, especially since it doesn't make much of a difference in the long run. And despite that, X/Y did still touch on a couple of interesting themes. And as for the post-game... well look here's the deal. I understand the complaints. The "fan" side of me can easily sympathize with them. How could more gameplay be a bad thing? But the reality is, I honestly don't think that Masuda's new paradigm is all that out-of-touch. Sure, from the perspective of a fan who plays these games to really play them, I can see why people are disappointed. But outside of that sphere, we really do have a shit-tonne of things available to us these days. And the side of me that's now an adult with a job and long travel times involved in seeing my significant other, and numerous other responsibilities and entertainment interests, and the prospect of getting even a somewhat-acceptable amount of sleep always seductively wagging its finger at me, really appreciates the effort to streamline the games. And that's not how it is for everybody, and that's fine. Anyone else can have whatever opinion they want here. But as for my opinion, there may not be a lot to do after you beat the game (although, as I have recently learned, I am more of a "reset and replay" person anyway), but I honestly think that is partially to do with how much they not only streamlined, but revolutionized. And X/Y really did that; they brought in so many great new features and made major strides on the core mechanics. Okay, so one of those features wasn't a Rhyhorn racing minigame. Frankly, big whoop. X/Y paved a lot of valuable ground for the series going foward.

Which is why I would absolutely want OR/AS to be the follow-up instead of Z. It just seems like a no-brainer to me. A prospective Z just doesn't offer enough, in my estimation, to justify its own existence. It's just selling you X/Y with the bits they couldn't fit in because they had higher priorities. Why do that, when you can integrate those unfinished bits into a revitalised Ruby/Sapphire experience? At least then, you're not playing one game for the price of two. Besides that, while I also don't think that OR/AS are *perfect* games, they fixed so much of what I didn't like about Ruby/Sapphire, while also distancing themselves enough from those games in order to feel like a somewhat-new experience in their own right, that I really can say that I love them.

So that's why this is a hands-down answer for me. X/Y brought a lot of actual core value to the table; so much that I still really liked them despite their shortcomings, and then OR/AS made up for those while also being a different experience from both X/Y and even Ruby/Sapphire to an extent. In no permutation of reality can I see myself preferring "two successive attempts at doing the same thing" over "actual innovation followed by a fun revival that more than makes up the cost of that innovation."

 

[Hidden Mew]

In this hypothetical situation, OR/AS would definitely be the much better choice. R/S were oudated and really needed a new polish update. We got some terrific new features, the way they incorporated Mega Evolution to the story was handled really well, the facial expressions made some of the characters more endearing than they were in the original games, mainly Brendan/May, a pretty neat post storyline and it was just all around fun. I still like X/Y in spite of the problems in those games, but OR/AS are the best games in the sixth generation. They were good remakes that were able to strike a balance between nostalgia for the older fans and making it distinctly different enough from the originals to be worthwhile experiences for both new and long time fans. There were still problems, as I'm still not happy that they didn't have the Battle Frontier or Gym Leader rematches, but they were all around solid and enjoyable games.

A hypothetical Z game could have been enjoyable. Many people wanted more Zygarde focus, but I primarily wanted an expanded Kalos and Malva to actually be involved with the storyline. Zygarde was always pretty much a non-issue for me. A story around it could have been interesting and I would have bought the game if it did actually exist, but I don't think that a traditional third version game would have been a good choice. It would have been a step backwards in a lot of ways after they had already released sequels in the fifth generation. It could have been a fun and interesting game, but I don't think a hypothetical Z would have been worth losing OR/AS. Fans were already upset over not getting R/S remakes during the fifth generation, so wanting another generation for remakes would have caused more of an uproar than the lack of Z has done. I think we would have lost more from OR/AS than what we could have gained in a hypothetical Z game.

 

[Fig]

OR/AS for sure, because they were actually a different game than XY rather than a XY rehash with a few extra bells and whistles (like most third versions).

Really, waiting a few generations down the line and making a third version remake on a new console sounds like a MUCH better take on third versions than the old "do it in the same generation" approach.

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

I am going with Z. Hoenn remakes are not really needed. Zygarde should have gotten a game since it is the third legendary. I probably won't get Sun and Moon if the forms are not in them.

 

[Almonds]

In that situation, I'd go for ORAS because reuniting with Steven Stone is a lot more important than the unfinished business in Kalos and Zygarde to me.

 

[Boss1708]

Easily ORAS. But let me elaborate.

Firstly, yes, XY has a lot of problems. But it has a lot of good things as well. I think it is a game that holds on it´s feet better than some people say. How many generation debut pairs have a building dedicated to rematching gym leaders or the E4? Also, Customization. If it ends up being a Kalos- exclusive feature, people will begin to appreciate XY that much more. Now, we see it as the incomplete game that could´ve done this and that, and that and this as well, and didn´t have the teased Zygarde forme changes, etc, etc, etc. But in a few years, when it is not recent, people will start feeling nostalgia, and will start saying: "I thing that game is pretty good, and had some cool exclusive things."
Also, the fact that it didn´t recieve a Kalos follow up, makes it even more valuable as a game. It hasn´t been bested in it´s own territory (Kalos).

ORAS is just the better option. More fans buy remakes, than third version games, or even sequels. Making ORAS, brings them more money (a lot more) and at the same time would satisfy the fans´ hunger for Hoenn remakes.

And speaking strictly game- wise: ORAS incorporates many third version elements anyway. Pokemon League postgame upgrades; a final boss battle (Wally); Move Tutors, etc... Even gym leader rematches are technically in ORAS, just done differently. Instead of rematching the gym leaders, we can rematch the Battle Resort type specialists which are the same thing as gym leaders: Type Specialists. In fact, GF advertised them as such, and said they were in ORAS, so that for the first time ever, a Pokemon game would feature a type specialist for every type in existence (between the gym leaders, Pokemon League, and Resort Specialists, all 18 types have a "boss battle" in the game). So content wise, ORAS is like a third version.

But ORAS also acts as a third version to XY plot wise. It expands the main theme of Kalos and Gen VI: Mega Evolution and the Kalos War, explaining us the real origin of ME, and even expanding the lore with Primal Rev. ORAS also expands the Kalos War via Infinity Energy.

So, basically, ORAS is one of the most complicated main series Pokemon game to date: it is a remake of RSE; it also feels like a *revisit* of Hoenn, as it has a lot of original content that the originals don´t; it acts as a third version expansion to XY both in terms of content expansions and plot, and it is a prequel for Gen VI as it happens before XY. I think that´s a lot more interesting than a Z game. I even prefer it over hypothetical Kalos sequels.

 

[Juliko]

Agree with everything, @Meta Boss. I'd pick ORAS over any XY third version any day, even though I do love X and Y.

 

[Boss1708]

Agree with everything, @Meta Boss. I'd pick ORAS over any XY third version any day, even though I do love X and Y.

Thanks! Yeah, I think they definitely made the better choice.

 

[Fig]

To continue what I was saying, what it boils down to me is variety. I much prefer visiting two different settings, and playing two different main games, than playing a slightly updated re-release of the same main game in the same setting.

And older games still eventually get their updated re-release, but now they get it after several years, on a different generation.

(Honestly, if you want a Zygarde-centered game, odds are you'll have to wait until Pokémon Crossed X and Branched Y, which will be part of Gen IX, coming out around 2025 or so on the Nintendo 10DS.

 

[Poke Trey]

ORAS any day plus let's me catch up with things just more than what I can say for XY.

 

[Tuoko]

I'm going to have to go with OR/AS tbh. It gives more than what a Z would - a fixed Kalos, Zygarde formes, a new batch of Mega Evolutions, and a few other things.

OR/AS lets us revisit Hoenn 12 years later, expands on our old characters and introduces new ones, gives us a whole new batch of Mega Evolutions, even introducing Primal Reversion, and it tells us that the Hoenn we just traveled in isn't the same one. So it's technically a new region we just traveled in.

I'd say more, but I can't think of anything else atm.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I am going with Z. Hoenn remakes are not really needed. Zygarde should have gotten a game since it is the third legendary. I probably won't get Sun and Moon if the forms are not in them.

Hoenn remakes were kind of needed. The original games had been long out of print and like with the first two generations, they needed a new coat of paint. Plus, I still think that the backlash of not getting R/S remakes for another generation would be bigger and potentially worse than what we have with the Z backlash. I understand that you really like Zygarde and that's fine, but I think that you're too focused on them keeping that tradition of third version games, which is really outdated now and I don't see what a Z game could have provided that would have been better than OR/AS. The forms also really shouldn't be that important to where they'd make or break Sun/Moon for you. Granted, there's probably a good chance that they're in the game, as I don't think that they'd keep them in the anime and spin-off material, but that really shouldn't be what makes the new games for you, especially when that really is just setting yourself up for disappointment.

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

Sorry but ORAS wasn't the third version of XY. ORAS had too much original content and not enough Emerald content. A game with Zygarde's forms is far more important than going back to a region that many people already played. ORAS was overpacked with legendary pokemon, Wally can't be rebattled until you win the super battle of the battle maison, the type specialists of battle resort does not make up for lack of gym leader rematches, Latias/Latios was just given to us during the story, battle frontier was excluded and replaced by the inferior battle maison and areas like Desert Underpass was excluded.

Hoenn wasn't needed because people can buy the originals online. Z would be the best choice but Game Freak has been making wrong choices lately.

 

[Proxima Centauri B]

I would pick ORAS. I do think Hoenn needed the remake and generally like them more than a third version. I was never personally big on third versions or a Z happening. I like revisiting old regions and seeing them updated with new graphics and features, etc.

Not that a Z would be bad but Id rather have remakes.

 

[Boss1708]

ORAS was overpacked with legendary pokemon

Nobody makes you catch them. This is not a logical complaint. Pretend they are not there... XD

Also, those legendary Pokemon had to be there to enable the Pokedex completion between XY and ORAS. This is one of the selling points of Gen VI.

Sorry but ORAS wasn't the third version of XY.

Technically, it wasn't, but content wise and plot wise, it was.

ORAS had too much original content and not enough Emerald content.

Too much original content? That's a positive thing, meaning ORAS are MORE than just remakes. And actually, ORAS also has Emerald content, just not all of it. And the Battle Resort type specialists are not Gym Leader rematches, but are an equivalent of those. And they give more exp points in total, actually.

Latias/Latios was just given to us during the story

This is better than have it roaming like in the originals though.

Also, Mega Lucario was given to us in XY, and you never criticize that, and you love XY regardless.

battle frontier was excluded

This is more of a decision for the entire franchise and future games, it seems, not ORAS in particular.

areas like Desert Underpass was excluded.

Desert Underpass was created for Emerald in order to get both fossils in the game, because it is a *single* version... ORAS is a pair of games, so you are meant to trade with other people and the other game, to get both fossils. Because GF loves player interaction and all that stuff. It is the same with most paired versions...

 

[Esserise]

Desert Underpass was created for Emerald in order to get both fossils in the game, because it is a *single* version... ORAS is a pair of games, so you are meant to trade with other people and the other game, to get both fossils. Because GF loves player interaction and all that stuff. It is the same with most paired versions...

Also, Desert Underpass is a single bloody hallway. It being in the games wouldn't really improve them in any way. It is completely negligible.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Sorry but ORAS wasn't the third version of XY. ORAS had too much original content and not enough Emerald content.

How is having too much original content a bad thing again? I'm disappointed that they didn't have enough Emerald content, especially when HG/SS did incorporate Crystal elements and I was so looking forward to battling in the Battle Frontier again, but having original content isn't bad. If anything, it helps to make OR/AS stand out more as their own game instead of just being R/S with a new coat of paint. They're still recognizable as R/S remakes, but they have their own content to help make them more distinct and worthwhile for both long time fans and new ones. Having a lot of original content showed that they did put some good effort into the game, so I do not understand how too much original content in a remake is a bad thing.

A game with Zygarde's forms is far more important than going back to a region that many people already played.

I think that you're assuming way too much with this statement. Believe it or not, there are many people who like Pokemon who weren't around twelve years ago when R/S came out. Some people might not have been interested in Pokemon back then, some might not have been able to afford the games for whatever reason and some might not have been born yet or at least old enough to play video games when the original games were released. The last possibility would be especially true for children, who are still the primary target audience for the franchise. I know that forums like this one are usually full of a lot of people who have been here since the early days, but I don't think that paints a completely accurate picture of the fanbase. It is true that many people did play R/S, but that wouldn't count for every fan, especially younger ones, and it wouldn't be fair to dismiss OR/AS just because you think everyone has already played the original games. It would be like dismissing the virtual re-release of the original R/B/Y because you think everyone would have already played them, or at least played FR/LG, beforehand.

I also still don't see a good reason to consider a game with Zygarde forms to be that important and other than just including it for tradition's shake and/or to satisfy fans' expectations of something they were never really promised, I haven't been given a good reason why it would be that much more important than what we got in OR/AS.

ORAS was overpacked with legendary pokemon, Wally can't be rebattled until you win the super battle of the battle maison, the type specialists of battle resort does not make up for lack of gym leader rematches, Latias/Latios was just given to us during the story, battle frontier was excluded and replaced by the inferior battle maison and areas like Desert Underpass was excluded.

They wanted to allow fans to complete the Pokedex between X/Y and OR/AS, which is why they included a bunch of Legendary Pokemon. It's not like you have to go after them either. You can just ignore the Legendary Pokemon if you don't want to capture all of them. We got Lucario handed to us in X/Y, so I don't see why Latias/Latios is a problem, aside from being a Legendary Pokemon. I can understand why some people wouldn't like that, but I'd rather deal with that than with the annoying roaming Pokemon again. Now that made just finding Legendary Pokemon too much of a hassle. While I do agree with you on the issues with Wally, Gym Leader rematches and the lack of a Battle Frontier, I don't think that those issues ruin the games. Even with how much I'm disappointed with no Battle Frontier, especially when the reason behind it was kind of stupid given how much time and energy one has to put in to get one thousand flags for the Secret Bases, there were still plenty of strengths to the games that made them enjoyable. They weren't perfect, but they were solid fun games and I am still glad that they went with those instead of a traditional third version game.

As for the Desert Underpass, I'm not sure why that area being excluded would be an issue. It was created specifically for Emerald and unlike with say the Battle Frontier, there wouldn't be a need for it to be in OR/AS, especially when they would want to encourage players to trade with other people to get the fossils.

Hoenn wasn't needed because people can buy the originals online. Z would be the best choice but Game Freak has been making wrong choices lately.

Do you honestly know how much money the original R/S/E games would cost? A brand new copy of Pokemon Ruby on Amazon can go for hundreds of dollars. They are at cheaper prices when they're used, but that's a bit risky when that used quality can result in the game having more problems than what the seller is letting on. Plus, you'd also need a system that plays GBA games, which I'm not sure too many people still have, or at least ones that are still in working order. I still have my original DS system, but it's broken and I don't have my GBA SP charger anymore, so if I ever wanted to play one of my GBA games, I'm kind of stuck. Kids might still have some of the earlier DS models, but they most likely wouldn't have a GBA system. You could find good prices used, but again, you run into the same risk of the system being in poor quality or having more problems than expected when you buy electronic stuff used. That's honestly quite a bit more money for people to put into getting older games, especially if they're kids.

Getting remakes on a system that they already have would make a lot more financial and marketing sense than just telling them to buy the original games and system online. Most kids, who are the target audience for this franchise, don't have the kind of money to get older systems and games like that. Remakes can show younger fans an older game than they aren't too familiar with, while also potentially drawing in more older fans who would want to re-experience their old journey. From a business perspective, it's a win-win.

You keep saying that Z would be the better choice, but other than your desire to see the Zygarde forms in a game/getting more story focus, I don't really understand why you think that's the case. If those are the primary reasoning for why you think Z would have been the better choice, then I really disagree. Zygarde is not so huge that it must have its own game and anything without showcasing Zygarde forms/giving its story is dismissed for missing out on the glory that is Zygarde. This is one major reason why I'm starting to dislike Zygarde, which is strange when there aren't too many Pokemon that I actively dislike. Although, in this case, I think I'm just projecting my annoyance at so many fans putting Zygarde on a huge pedestal more than anything else. A Z game could have been good and fun, but I don't think it would be worth losing OR/AS over. While I don't think Game Freak has made the best choices when it comes to promoting Sun/Moon lately, I don't think that skipping out on Z was one of them. In that case, I think it's a matter of you not liking the choices they've made rather than Game Freak making a wrong decision.