X-Men Origins: Wolverine Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

[GrnMarvl14]

So...it's out. And it was...good. Wasn't great. Was definitely good, though. Number of moments that really shined, but they were largely outnumbered by the bad moments in a film that was way too short for what they were trying to do. Attempting to span the entire history of Wolverine prior to the first X-Men movie in one hour and 47 minutes...was a bad idea. The cast, the director, and the writers did what they could...but ultimately, the movie failed to really build up any momentum, instead going from one scene to the next and resolving problems almost as soon as they became problems. Too many characters felt shoe-horned in, and the ones that seemed somewhat important were largely left undeveloped (and NUMEROUS characters were left unnamed).

Pros:
1. Wade Wilson. Ryan Reynolds as Wade Wilson was sheer genius. Every moment with him was great. All...oh...15 minutes. He got off a lot of great lines and some good action scenes.
2. Wolverine. The star of the movie. Easily the character that came off the best. And understandably so. Great acting, and a fairly good story...what story there was.
3. Gambit. Really came off well. By the end, he had a really great character.
4. Sabretooth/Victor Creed. Came off really well. Though there was little explanation as to why he and James/Logan/Wolverine were so close, aside from their shared history.
5. The Wolverine/Blob boxing match. Short. Sweet. Good. Nice bit of humor. Would have been better if it was more important.
6. Xavier's recruiting drive. REALLY random, but it was a nice scene.

Cons:
1. Deadpool/Weapon XI. How could they turn a great character into Marvel's answer to Baraka? Aside from his mouth being forced closed (which was a nice payoff from an earlier scene), he was such a waste. Sure, it's supposed to set up for the Deadpool movie, and it goes to explain the disfiguration, but...why? I mean, I've got no problem with the idea of someone trying to shove a bunch of powers onto one person, and I've got no problem with them using Deadpool for that purpose, but if you're going to design a killing machine that you can control by using a computer...wouldn't it be better if you didn't need to type out your instructions? Plus...they had a good dozen mutants in that prison...and yet he only used three/four abilities?
2. Wait...Logan? Where did Logan come from? They randomly start calling him Logan...with no explanation. He goes from being James to Wolverine to...Logan? Why? Was that supposed to be his last name in the movie? And, if so, why did his second dog tags JUST have "Logan"? In fact...why did they have Logan at all?
3. Gambit. Where did his accent go? And how did he end up on a building a minute after being punched in the face? And...since when does he have telekinesis?
3. Too many characters. Similar to X-3...they tried to throw in too many new characters, and failed miserably at explaining why they were there or why anyone should care. Especially Agent Zero, Chris Bradley, and John Wraith.
4. The 5-minute fat joke aka the introduction of the fat Fred "Don't Call Me Blob" Dukes. His power in the comics is related to his weight. Now, apparently, he just "let himself go." C'mon. Really?
5. Will.i.am as John Wraith. Just...no. The man was EASILY the closest, appearance-wise, to the character he played...but what horrible acting.
6. As I said above, it was too short. Too much was done in too short a time, with little actually being explained effectively. Would have been great as a trilogy, or even two films. Hell, even just three hours. I keep hearing complaints about there being too many action scenes. That's not really the problem. The problem is that there wasn't enough room between them to actually make them matter.

Ultimately...the movie was fine...it was good, but it wasn't great. It accomplished what it needed to accomplish to explain why Wolverine was the way he was in the X-Men movies...but it left too many unanswered questions and confusing moments.

 

[Zeta]

1. Deadpool/Weapon XI. How could they turn a great character into Marvel's answer to Baraka? Aside from his mouth being forced closed (which was a nice payoff from an earlier scene), he was such a waste. Sure, it's supposed to set up for the Deadpool movie, and it goes to explain the disfiguration, but...why? I mean, I've got no problem with the idea of someone trying to shove a bunch of powers onto one person, and I've got no problem with them using Deadpool for that purpose, but if you're going to design a killing machine that you can control by using a computer...wouldn't it be better if you didn't need to type out your instructions? Plus...they had a good dozen mutants in that prison...and yet he only used three/four abilities?

I have a better idea, just don't make him Deadpool and just call him Calvin Rankin/The Mimic, which is who he was obviously REALLY supposed to be.

 

[GrnMarvl14]

Not really. His origin was fairly similar to Deadpool's in the comics (not so much Mimic's), though he was more of a combination of every Weapon X/Weapon Plus program's ultimate achievement. He couldn't mimic abilities, he had them genetically added to him (and modified, at least as far as Wolverine's claws go. And...I'm still trying to figure out how he could fit a three-foot-long sword up each arm).

 

[snorlaxzilla]

Back from the movie. Very dramatic. I was dissapointed with DeadPool, he didn't wear his mask and just screwed him up in some parts. And wouldn't Proffesor X be abit young? Becuz remember throughout the end they show him recruiting the young mutants?

 

[GrnMarvl14]

Well, there had to be at least a decade between this movie and the first X-Men movie, based on Cyclops' age, if nothing else (I would THINK longer, since I saw Banshee there, and Siryn was in X-2...but who knows if they're even related in the movieverse), so it really only raises the question of when Xavier lost the use of his legs, and when he and Magneto parted ways (i.e., did he get the big group here before or after he parted ways with Magneto. If it's BEFORE, then when did this happen in relation to him recruiting Jean? If it's AFTER, then it narrows down the window of when the two decided they couldn't work together).

 

[Lil Brother]

Just saw it. And first allow me to go on a rant of consequences of my watching this movie, like I always seem to do when talking about movies online:

Spoiler

On Friday I had planned to go see it with a group of friends... and every. single. person. backed out. So that was annoying. Then I was gonna see it with my sister on Saturday, but she couldn't go because of schedule conflicts, and we pushed it back to Sunday. Then she decided out of the blue not to see it. So I went with my dad, and he was acting like a complete pain in the ass before, during, and after the movie. I never would have really enjoyed this movie, but this just made me dislike it forever. '_'

So, yeah, the movie was not too great. It was more like an I Spy book of random X-Men-related characters than anything you can call a coherent plot. In other words, X3 Syndrome. Because no one learned anything from that trainwreck, apparently.

It started out good enough; I loved the title sequence. But by the end there was just too much going on and too many plotholes and unexplained occurances. The on-off use of the name "Logan" in particular irked me so much.

And what the hell did they do to Deadpool. o.o Now obviously characters must adjusted as part of the adapatation process, but, seriously, what was that? He was brilliant when he was his true self, and the audience loved it. Then they mentioned casually he had died and I ended up waiting for his badass, masked, fourth-wall breaking return. Then he did return and I died a little inside. Yuck. I was looking forward so much to his appearance in this movie and possibilty of a spin-off, but now not so much.

I gotta say, Scott and Emma were adorable together.

Not even a hint of how Sabretooth changed so much from this movie to X1? I was expecting a mindwipe, but nope! Speaking of mindwipes, the way Logan's mind was cleared at the end was ridiculous. How in the world did Stryker know that would happen? And speaking of him, what in the world was the purpose of that scene near the beginning of the credits? We know he'll end up just fine, why even bother hinting otherwise? And speaking of that, just to top it all of, my theatre showed the crappy after-credits scene, not the good one. Of course.

There's just too much to whine about. I liked it more than X3, but that was just plain not what it should have been. Probably won't buy the DVD, honestly.

Also, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere this takes place 17 years before X1. Guessing Scott to be 15 or so in this movie, that seems like it could work. Btw, I must have missed Banshee. Where was he?

 

[GrnMarvl14]

my theatre showed the crappy after-credits scene, not the good one.

Wait...there was a scene after the credits? ...I had a feeling there might be, but hadn't heard anything as I had before I saw X3 and Iron Man.

The on-off use of the name "Logan" in particular irked me so much.

Glad I'm not the only one.

the way Logan's mind was cleared at the end was ridiculous. How in the world did Stryker know that would happen?

I actually liked that. It sort of made sense (in that brain trauma could, conceviably, cause memory loss. I chose not to dwell on why he couldn't heal from it), and it was an easier explanation than having his memory overwritten with false memories.

Also, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere this takes place 17 years before X1. Guessing Scott to be 15 or so in this movie, that seems like it could work. Btw, I must have missed Banshee. Where was he?

When Wolverine first goes to the prisoner pens, it focuses on a few of them. The very first one is a red-headed boy with his mouth covered by an iron gag.

Not too sure who the others were, though. Though I saw Toad. Though I MAYBE saw Quicksilver (the one bouncing around...not sure if that's who they meant it to be), and the whirling one could have been any number of people (and I've still got no clue as to who the twin girls were).

 

[Zeta]

Wait...there was a scene after the credits? ...I had a feeling there might be, but hadn't heard anything as I had before I saw X3 and Iron Man.

There are three different afterscene credits, randomly shown at theaters in an attempt to get fanboys to pay for the movie instead of bit torrenting it.

and I've still got no clue as to who the twin girls were

If they were black, Penance, the two mutant twin girls who can combine into a woman made of diamond.

 

[Lil Brother]

I actually liked that. It sort of made sense (in that brain trauma could, conceviably, cause memory loss. I chose not to dwell on why he couldn't heal from it), and it was an easier explanation than having his memory overwritten with false memories.

True, agreed. The problem I had with it was, Stryker somehow just knew what would happen when he shot Logan in the head. It wasn't speculation, it was stated as fact. That was just weird; had Stryker done this before?

Oh, something I did like was Logan and Victor being brothers. Hardly consistant with Origin, but who cares, their relationship was very interesting. Gonna have to pay extra attention to Sabretooth's interactions to Wolverine next time I see X1 (likely not for a long, long while).

Also thought having Victor almost rape a woman was a nice nod.

And back to be ranting about Deadpool, did anyone else think it was a mistake for Wade Wilson and Deadpool/Weapon XI to be portrayed by different actors? When he showed up, it was like "...is that him or someone else?" Kinda distracting. But it does give me hope that if the Deadpool movie does happen, it will be with the real Deadpool.

 

[GrnMarvl14]

If they were black, Penance, the two mutant twin girls who can combine into a woman made of diamond.

They were white. And Penance wasn't made out of diamond, her skin was just the same toughness. I loved Generation X. Until Lobdell left, I managed to pick up every issue. Was actually hoping one was a guy for a bit, so it could be Northstar and Aurora.

Stryker somehow just knew what would happen when he shot Logan in the head. It wasn't speculation, it was stated as fact. That was just weird; had Stryker done this before?

Certainly conceivable. Or maybe they ran simulations. Or maybe he was just guessing, but said it like he did because he's a cocky SOB.

Oh, something I did like was Logan and Victor being brothers.

I liked how they acted with each other, but I'm just sick of the whole "enemies as relatives" crap that always seems to get thrown around. Though I AM happy that Sabretooth wasn't his father.

And back to be ranting about Deadpool, did anyone else think it was a mistake for Wade Wilson and Deadpool/Weapon XI to be portrayed by different actors

WERE they different actors? Guy looked like Reynolds to me. Maybe I was just distracted trying to come up with a good Baraka joke.

But it does give me hope that if the Deadpool movie does happen, it will be with the real Deadpool.

SUPPOSEDLY they went back after the movie was shot and reshot a bunch of stuff with Ryan Reynolds to beef up Deadpool's role so they could launch his movie out of it. And with Wolverine raking in about $86 million this weekend, I'm hoping it'll be enough to get the movie made.

 

[Martonimos]

Logan was a pseudonym, indicative of him leaving his old life behind. We all saw how well that worked, of course, but still. And the memory loss thing makes sense to me; you heal the tissue, but what was there is gone. TBIs work in strange ways; it'd be even stranger if you could heal from virtually anything.

Anyway, WOW. That's how an action movie should be done. Instead of shoehorning in fart and black jokes, let the characters generate the humor. Can we get this Gavin Hood guy on the next Transformers film? I feel he'd do an infinitely better job than Michael Bay.

So, yeah, pretty good. The one-liners worked well, the action scenes were intense, and it was nice seeing Gambit and a few others again. I was hoping Cyclops would be featured more, as in the trailer, after dying like a punk in X3. But it was good to see him anyway. If the Magneto one is this good, the series has a good chance of recovering from the X3 travesty.

 

[GrnMarvl14]

Logan was a pseudonym, indicative of him leaving his old life behind. We all saw how well that worked, of course, but still.

Would have been great if they'd explained that. Or, y'know, even hinted at it. Rather than just randomly dropping the name.

Anyway, WOW. That's how an action movie should be done. Instead of shoehorning in fart and black jokes, let the characters generate the humor

I agree. What the movie did right, it did RIGHT.

If the Magneto one is this good, the series has a good chance of recovering from the X3 travesty.

I'm hoping they take a bit of a Schindler's List approach with Magneto. Especially after reading Magneto: Testament, they need to do a real sober tone with it, and make it work as a Holocaust movie AND as a comic book movie (which is probably impossible, but they need to try).

 

[Kamen_Fanatic]

I liked will.i.am's character in the film. Did he have to die?

Also, the motorcycle chase was good.

 

[Doctor Oak]

I thought the movie was a grand attempt. Was pretty much enjoyable all the way through and while there were definitely some iffy moments - the better ones definitely outweighed them.

I heartily support the movements for a Gambit spin-off as well as Deadpool's movie finally coming to fruition. Mostly because both were criminally underplayed in this.

 

[Dorothy LaRouge]

I've still got no clue as to who the twin girls were.

Well, one of them was Emma Frost, the other was a character created specifically for the movie.

 

[GrnMarvl14]

Well, one of them was Emma Frost, the other was a character created specifically for the movie.

No, the black-haired twins that were seen next to Cyclops as they all escaped the Island.

Kayla was supposed to be Silver Fox (or was at least based on her, and I think she's supposed to be named Kayla Silverfox in the film), and I don't think she was meant to be Emma's twin.

 

[Dorothy LaRouge]

No, the black-haired twins that were seen next to Cyclops as they all escaped the Island.

Kayla was supposed to be Silver Fox (or was at least based on her, and I think she's supposed to be named Kayla Silverfox in the film), and I don't think she was meant to be Emma's twin.

They could be two of the St. Croix (I believe that's their last name) triplets. Were they African-American? I was too busy wondering why Professor X looked so much like a pedophile.

 

[GrnMarvl14]

They could be two of the St. Croix (I believe that's their last name) triplets. Were they African-American? I was too busy wondering why Professor X looked so much like a pedophile.

St. Croix twins. And the twins in the movie were...well...not African-American (not sure what they're ethnicity was. Either caucasian or something closely resembling it).

And, yeah, Xavier looked kinda weird. He looked much better in the first scene from X3 (where he was also de-aged using CGI or make-up).

 

[Legacy]

I was very disappointed with the script of the movie...although I kind of expected that being that its a comic-based film. But MANY plot holes.

That being said, it was still pretty good based only on the effects alone.

 

[GrnMarvl14]

I was very disappointed with the script of the movie...although I kind of expected that being that its a comic-based film.

Hey, now. MOST comic book films this decade have had good scripts. This isn't the 90s, when Steel was your best option. Iron Man had a VERY tight script. As did Dark Knight. And, honestly, Wolverine's script was fairly good, it was the plotting that had problems.