Mafia Ocarina of Time Mafia [Game Thread]

[Maniacal Engineer]

There are hostile Independent roles in this game. This is a fact.
Given his track record, even as Survivor, of being anti-Town when it suits him, and the fact that I know there are hostile indeps in this game, I am very alarmed by Darth's claim.
The hostile Independent that I am aware of is best gotten rid of quickly, ergo:

Unvote: Lone_Garurumon
Vote: DarthWolf

WCS: Darth is exactly what he says he is, and Town loses nothing except a potential future enemy.

 

[Zexy]

I am actually willing to go with ME for the time being, for lack of better option anyway. Sorry Darth, I like your Kingmaker shenanignans... in all the previous games where I was scum. Not now.

VOTE: DarthWolf

This is a much better vote than LG people, but not necessarily the best one we can pull off today; but since ZD-i games tend to be a bit slow with how many claims are allowed and how people are willing to leave stuff for D2 etc it is an OK option really.

 

[Pikochu]

Alright, it's lunch time for me. So while I do this:

Spoiler

Time to give further thoughts.

In re LG and ME, I don't like how players are joining the wagon when it was brought up. At this stage of the game, while ME's points are agreeable, the case against LG is quite flimsy at best. I also don't like the insistence on ME that his reasoning is infallible and should be regarded as truth that can't be refuted. While I do agree that it does make LG look like scum, it's just way too early to tell. And even if LG does flip scum, what if this is a bussing attempt by ME himself at the most opportunistic time? Personally, even upon LG's flipping as Mafia, it doesn't make ME auto-town.

Personally, I think Zachie is a better lynch candidate than LG based on the current content that he has posted.

In re Lord Fawful: His questions are just plain unoriginal and nothing indicative of anything. I mean, personally, I think they are just joke questions without being serious. I don't like the original switch from ME to LG though despite being "on the fence about this thing with Lone" and "plenty of time to discuss it," yet, I read that switch as if he was in a hurry to lynch LG.

Alright, need to get back to work now.

 

[MegaPod]

Let's do it! The Lone lynch could swing either way for us, but there shouldn't be any downside to lynching a claimed Survivor.

Unvote: Lone_Garurumon
Vote: DarthWolf

We can always return to the Lone issue later.

 

[funnier6]

Spoiler: Hey Listen!

There are indeed indeps in the game, or well, at least one.
It is I once again. I have come here today to make someone the new king of games. Yes, those familiar with me know what I'm talking about. The return of the Kingmaker, finally!
Translation for the lesser known: I am a Survivor.

Seeing as Aussie has info on there being hostile indeps. @AussieEevee is it explicitely hostile or in general?
This can confirm the existance of multiple indeps, not surprised though with so many players.

From this point onward, vote is yours.

What is the purpose of this, even if you are the survivor why claim so early? I can see a certain strategy for doing it but it depends on if you actually care to win with town or not.

Either way if you were going to claim I would’ve appreciated if you had waited until the end of a day so whoever was being lynched would have the opportunity to claim.

I’m quite positive you are either survivor or serial killer so I’m not particularly worried, I’m sure lots of night actions will be sent your way anyway.

So tell me darth, what are your thoughts on the day?

 

[DekuNut]

The point is that it actually does reveal something interesting about the setup, at least in this particular instance.
Yes, I suppose the old wincon being "null and void" does mean that it's not important as a goal anymore, but as a source of information, it is definitely interesting.

That said, if there are more people who were sloppy didn't go back to reread their old wincons, I might be inclined to cut LG some slack here...

I was kind of hunting that I didn't

Spoiler: Hey Listen!

There are indeed indeps in the game, or well, at least one.
It is I once again. I have come here today to make someone the new king of games. Yes, those familiar with me know what I'm talking about. The return of the Kingmaker, finally!
Translation for the lesser known: I am a Survivor.

Seeing as Aussie has info on there being hostile indeps. @AussieEevee is it explicitely hostile or in general?
This can confirm the existance of multiple indeps, not surprised though with so many players.

From this point onward, vote is yours.

The peiple are saying that youre willing to go full survivor and play ruthlessly. That makes you a dangerous wild card, and also confirmed non-town. The person I least want to see in LyLo. The next step seems obvious to me.
Vote: DarthWolf

 

[Snowy]

Seeing as Aussie has info on there being hostile indeps. @AussieEevee is it explicitely hostile or in general?

Not sure if I can answer that without claiming and you have already used todays claim, sorry.

Midorikawa is indeed that good, be afraid of her... when she's not busy. Oh, and she hates meta and me using meta

I remember when you and Mido argued about Meta for an entire page in one of my games... Can't remember which but it was amusing.

 

[DekuNut]

My guess is that he's something like an alarmist or psychologist- roles made specifically to counter hostile indeps.

 

[funnier6]

There are hostile Independent roles in this game. This is a fact.
Given his track record, even as Survivor, of being anti-Town when it suits him, and the fact that I know there are hostile indeps in this game, I am very alarmed by Darth's claim.
The hostile Independent that I am aware of is best gotten rid of quickly, ergo:

Unvote: Lone_Garurumon
Vote: DarthWolf

WCS: Darth is exactly what he says he is, and Town loses nothing except a potential future enemy.

I am actually willing to go with ME for the time being, for lack of better option anyway. Sorry Darth, I like your Kingmaker shenanignans... in all the previous games where I was scum. Not now.

VOTE: DarthWolf

This is a much better vote than LG people, but not necessarily the best one we can pull off today; but since ZD-i games tend to be a bit slow with how many claims are allowed and how people are willing to leave stuff for D2 etc it is an OK option really.

Let's do it! The Lone lynch could swing either way for us, but there shouldn't be any downside to lynching a claimed Survivor.

Unvote: Lone_Garurumon
Vote: DarthWolf

We can always return to the Lone issue later.

I was kind of hunting that I didn't


The peiple are saying that youre willing to go full survivor and play ruthlessly. That makes you a dangerous wild card, and also confirmed non-town. The person I least want to see in LyLo. The next step seems obvious to me.
Vote: DarthWolf

This is so wasteful, you don’t think that after doing that he’s going to attract all the night actions? Lynching claimed third party is just no, I say let him be shot, or investigated, or something that makes more sense.

There is literally no information to be gained from his lynch (unless he flips mafia which is yeah right) I would much rather lynch anybody else.

The only problem is no more claims, that does make me a bit nervous but I don’t see any other choice.

 

[Zexy]

Personally, I think Zachie is a better lynch candidate than LG based on the current content that he has posted.

Agreed so much, but Darth may be better than Zachie too.

I remember when you and Mido argued about Meta for an entire page in one of my games... Can't remember which but it was amusing.

Superhero Bonanza, it really was a tunnel on each other as we were the only scum suspects and she was the scum.

 

[DekuNut]

This is so wasteful, you don’t think that after doing that he’s going to attract all the night actions? Lynching claimed third party is just no, I say let him be shot, or investigated, or something that makes more sense.

There is literally no information to be gained from his lynch (unless he flips mafia which is yeah right) I would much rather lynch anybody else.

The only problem is no more claims, that does make me a bit nervous but I don’t see any other choice.

We're not lynching him for information. We're lynching him because he's dangerous - for both sides. While his lynch could be and will be supported by both sides for similar reasons, I think it's safe to say that he shouldn't stay around very long.

 

[Zexy]

This is so wasteful, you don’t think that after doing that he’s going to attract all the night actions? Lynching claimed third party is just no, I say let him be shot, or investigated, or something that makes more sense.

There is literally no information to be gained from his lynch (unless he flips mafia which is yeah right) I would much rather lynch anybody else.

What makes you think he will be shot? Vig isn't necessarily in the game and scum/other indeps would never waste a kill. But even if he was vigged the info gained is the same either way, town makes someone flip. Investigation isn't a sure enough way to get rid of him; problem is that we're talking about Darth, even if he is Survivor we need him dead.

 

[DarthWolf]

Welp, there goes my wincon...

I claimed for a few reasons:
1. It would show that I am no threat to anyone
2. To stay on good terms with Town by giving my vote, this is not useful when the day ends as that might be too late
3. I couldn't resist the urge to wait with the kingmaker return so I wanted to start the game with it.

@Maniacal Engineer do you vote me for the sole reason that I'm indep or do you think that I'm actually something like a SK?

While reading the posts so far, I saw the mention of indeps and was like "oh I can prove the existance of it'
Then hostiles were mentioned. I still went through with it as it would only look worse for me if I claimed at a later point. IMO survivor is like Miller, best to be claimed asap.

So tell me darth, what are your thoughts on the day?

The wagon that started on Lone is interesting. I don't exactly know why the changed wincon was announced, but I have a good guess that it was the "opposing factions" part suggesting/basically confirming hostile indeps.
ME's action is a mix to me. It is a great argument that he gives which on Lone, but I don't like the fact that he based it on some host confirming info (just a personal thingy)
Scum Lone might not want to react on it as that could attract attention, but that might actually be his plan so he could look townier.

Darth has a certain history of being hostile or game-deciding indep.

Just give me my waffles
Scum got their taste of me last time, if I always help scum its no fun. It's time to show that i am willing to help Town, but if none of you are willing to accept my assistance then at least see at how the game goes. If Town stays in clear majority I will have no impact on the end game. I won't even be able to harm you and I will also achieve my wincon.

 

[Maniacal Engineer]

Given the role that I am aware of exists in the game, letting him make it to a night phase is not a particularly good idea.
DarthWolf has put me on high alert.

 

[DarthWolf]

Given the role that I am aware of exists in the game, letting him make it to a night phase is not a particularly good idea.
DarthWolf has put me on high alert.

What do you mean?

 

[Snowy]

I agree with Maniacal Engineer and I suspect his role PM suggests something similar to mine... so...

Vote: Darthwolf

If you really are what I suspect you are, you need to go. Now.

 

[funnier6]

We're not lynching him for information. We're lynching him because he's dangerous - for both sides. While his lynch could be and will be supported by both sides for similar reasons, I think it's safe to say that he shouldn't stay around very long.

That first line is literally my entire argument.

What makes you think he will be shot? Vig isn't necessarily in the game and scum/other indeps would never waste a kill. But even if he was vigged the info gained is the same either way, town makes someone flip. Investigation isn't a sure enough way to get rid of him; problem is that we're talking about Darth, even if he is Survivor we need him dead.

In a game this size I could say almost definitely there is a vig, only once have I ever been in a ZD-I game without one.

Exactly, shooting him would give the same amount of hardly any information so we should be using our lynch to get maximum info by lynching someone who might actually be mafia.

 

[Maniacal Engineer]

@Maniacal Engineer do you vote me for the sole reason that I'm indep or do you think that I'm actually something like a SK?

Nah, I am actually aware of a hostile Indep existing in the game, and I think you're it.

While reading the posts so far, I saw the mention of indeps and was like "oh I can prove the existance of it'
Then hostiles were mentioned. I still went through with it as it would only look worse for me if I claimed at a later point. IMO survivor is like Miller, best to be claimed asap.

Bad, bad move in a game limited to one roleclaim per day. You take away everyone else's chances to claim, and thus act in an anti Town manner.

The wagon that started on Lone is interesting. I don't exactly know why the changed wincon was announced, but I have a good guess that it was the "opposing factions" part suggesting/basically confirming hostile indeps.
ME's action is a mix to me. It is a great argument that he gives which on Lone, but I don't like the fact that he based it on some host confirming info (just a personal thingy)
Scum Lone might not want to react on it as that could attract attention, but that might actually be his plan so he could look townier.

Wasn't just based on a host confirming thing. I cross compared my notes based on my role with the host confirmed thing and, viola things made a lot more sense.

Scum got their taste of me last time, if I always help scum its no fun. It's time to show that i am willing to help Town, but if none of you are willing to accept my assistance then at least see at how the game goes. If Town stays in clear majority I will have no impact on the end game. I won't even be able to harm you and I will also achieve my wincon.

There is still a very big chance that you can turn anti Town. I'm not leaving you around long enough for that to happen.
I am not as forgiving as Elieson.

 

[Zexy]

Welp, there goes my wincon...

I claimed for a few reasons:
1. It would show that I am no threat to anyone
2. To stay on good terms with Town by giving my vote, this is not useful when the day ends as that might be too late
3. I couldn't resist the urge to wait with the kingmaker return so I wanted to start the game with it.

@Maniacal Engineer do you vote me for the sole reason that I'm indep or do you think that I'm actually something like a SK?

While reading the posts so far, I saw the mention of indeps and was like "oh I can prove the existance of it'
Then hostiles were mentioned. I still went through with it as it would only look worse for me if I claimed at a later point. IMO survivor is like Miller, best to be claimed asap.


The wagon that started on Lone is interesting. I don't exactly know why the changed wincon was announced, but I have a good guess that it was the "opposing factions" part suggesting/basically confirming hostile indeps.
ME's action is a mix to me. It is a great argument that he gives which on Lone, but I don't like the fact that he based it on some host confirming info (just a personal thingy)
Scum Lone might not want to react on it as that could attract attention, but that might actually be his plan so he could look townier.


Just give me my waffles
Scum got their taste of me last time, if I always help scum its no fun. It's time to show that i am willing to help Town, but if none of you are willing to accept my assistance then at least see at how the game goes. If Town stays in clear majority I will have no impact on the end game. I won't even be able to harm you and I will also achieve my wincon.

1. You are always a threat to everyone.
2. You, staying on good terms with town as Survivor? lolnah
3. You also won't be able to resist the urge to help scum again

Personally I think there's a very big chance you're not Survivor; let me remind you than in PJ Mafia you were alt-wincon Reporter and that in AF you were Survivor... but also Commuter Self-Redirector. I totally doubt you're a plain Survivor and you won't use your powers to mess things up for us, even if you are just that, let's not get started on your vote in -YLO ofc.

And the question I ask to all the Survivors and no one can get it right; why do you even care about the wagon on LG or any LG? You're claimed Survivor, why do you care about who the town lynches?

You've said that stuff before but nah in WotE you could let the 3 people who allied hard with you win but you betrayed everyone for the 3rd time. So sorry, you're too dangerous to stay around I guess, if you even are Survivor... better policy lynch now that we can than have to deal with you later, sorry but it's the cold truth.

 

[DarthWolf]

I don't know what you guys are talking about, but if it is a hostile indep (which you talked about earlier) then you're looking at the wrong person. If I were, why would I announce myself as an indep shortly after. I guess survivor may seem convenient, but I had no other choice but to claim my role as it would only get worse later on in the game.