We need to talk about the continuity problem in the anime

[RetroPokeFan]

Same for when they go back to Kalos. How could you not mention Greninja is any way?

Simple.

They make an episode focusing on A Greninja but said Greninja has nothing to do with Ash's Greninja... but it's kinda like Ash's except in a more comedic portrayal.

Also Ash never acknowledges his own Greninja because otherwise he'd get a clip around the ears by the writers.

Easy as pie answer.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Simple.

They make an episode focusing on A Greninja but said Greninja has nothing to do with Ash's Greninja... but it's kinda like Ash's except in a more comedic portrayal.

Also Ash never acknowledges his own Greninja because otherwise he'd get a clip around the ears by the writers.

Easy as pie answer.

Well, that’s probably going to attract the most amount of negative attention. Most people at this point are used to Ash’s reserves not appearing, but Greninja’s fairly recent and there’s a chance that the present TV audience knows it. It’s even ranked the most popular Pokemon.

 

[Panky..]

Well, that’s probably going to attract the most amount of negative attention. Most people at this point are used to Ash’s reserves not appearing, but Greninja’s fairly recent and there’s a chance that the present TV audience knows it. It’s even ranked the most popular Pokemon.

The same applies to his Alolan team as well as any Alolan characters, especially Kukui and Burnet. If they somehow try to weasel their way out with nonsensical excuses just to avoid bringing them back, then the series' negative direction is set in stone. Wonder the reason we don't have any Kalos and Alola yet after 20 episodes is because the writers hope people will 'forget' about Ash's adventures there (and if they indeed do then that's some single digit IQ line of thinking they've got).

 

[nickdt]

Well, that’s probably going to attract the most amount of negative attention. Most people at this point are used to Ash’s reserves not appearing, but Greninja’s fairly recent and there’s a chance that the present TV audience knows it. It’s even ranked the most popular Pokemon.

But the biggest question is: Is Greninja popular or did they vote for Greninja because of its Ash-Greninja form?

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

But the biggest question is: Is Greninja popular or did they vote for Greninja because of its Ash-Greninja form?

It’s the most popular in two polls, and Ash-Greninja is still Greninja.

 

[El Squibbonator]

I think the problem is that the writers just aren't sure what to do with Ash now that he's actually won a Pokémon League. While winning a Pokémon League wasn't Ash's explicit goal at the very beginning of the anime (he wanted to "be the world's greatest Pokémon Master"), it's more or less become his become his goal since the end of Kanto, hence he keeps traveling to different regions and competing in their tournaments.

And there seemed to be this unspoken agreement among the writers that if Ash ever became a true Pokémon Leage Champion, the show would have to end. You can especially see this from Sinnoh onward, when each League arc had an increasingly desperate-looking way to have Ash lose. Sinnoh had Tobias, who flattened Ash with two Legendaries. Unova gave us Cameron, who by all rights should have lost but beat Ash despite a major handicap. And Kalos introduced Alain, who at least was an established character instead of just a plot device, but still won in a very cheap way.

So in Alola, Ash finally wins a League. And I'm sure that leaves the writers asking, "Now what?" It's like trying to make a Road Runner cartoon that takes place after Wile E. Coyote catches the Road Runner. Your character has finally gotten what the entire show has revolved around him trying to get, so what more story is there to tell?

I guess the point I'm trying to make is. . . it might be time to do a reboot of the Pokémon anime.

 

[Daren]

I guess the point I'm trying to make is. . . it might be time to do a reboot of the Pokémon anime.

If they can't figure out what to do with Ash why not let him accomplish his goal then introduce a new main character instead of a reboot?

But since they introduced the World Championship they do have at least one more idea for him. How that ends up going is a question for the future.

 

[El Squibbonator]

That's sort of what I meant.

 

[Daren]

That's sort of what I meant.

Ah, my mistake. Usually people saying to reboot mean just using a "new "Ash instead.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

I think the problem is that the writers just aren't sure what to do with Ash now that he's actually won a Pokémon League. While winning a Pokémon League wasn't Ash's explicit goal at the very beginning of the anime (he wanted to "be the world's greatest Pokémon Master"), it's more or less become his become his goal since the end of Kanto, hence he keeps traveling to different regions and competing in their tournaments.

And there seemed to be this unspoken agreement among the writers that if Ash ever became a true Pokémon Leage Champion, the show would have to end. You can especially see this from Sinnoh onward, when each League arc had an increasingly desperate-looking way to have Ash lose. Sinnoh had Tobias, who flattened Ash with two Legendaries. Unova gave us Cameron, who by all rights should have lost but beat Ash despite a major handicap. And Kalos introduced Alain, who at least was an established character instead of just a plot device, but still won in a very cheap way.

So in Alola, Ash finally wins a League. And I'm sure that leaves the writers asking, "Now what?" It's like trying to make a Road Runner cartoon that takes place after Wile E. Coyote catches the Road Runner. Your character has finally gotten what the entire show has revolved around him trying to get, so what more story is there to tell?

I guess the point I'm trying to make is. . . it might be time to do a reboot of the Pokémon anime.

Except that they already figured out what Ash's doing (at least for the next 3 years): Pokemon World Championships.

 

[Daenerys]

For example, how on earth are they going to have Ash visit Alola and not visit his Alola family?

Oh he could definitely remember them and maybe even have a small flashback montage about them like he had when he reunited with Misty and Brock in SuMo, but that doesn't mean that they'll be around if he decides to go check on them. They have their own lives and hobbies so even if Ash went to each of their houses (which he probably wouldn't but let's pretend that he would), that wouldn't guarantee that they'd be around since they could be traveling in other regions or running errands on another island or whatever.

Seriously, if I went back to my old hometown and tried to find my old friends from years ago, I probably wouldn't even be able to meet a single one of them because guess what, people have lives to live and can't be expected to drop everything just to convenience their old buddies. The same could apply to the anime and all of Ash's old friends.

Same for when they go back to Kalos. How could you not mention Greninja is any way?

It's easy. They just don't mention it. It wouldn't even be a retcon since they wouldn't be changing the past in any way by ignoring Greninja.

 

[Emelie]

I'm not sure if the anime needs countinuity to be good or popular. XY had no continuity aside from Cilan/Dent in the last episode and a lot of fans believe that XY was the best season.

But I guess the problem with the new anime is that it tries so hard to appeal to older nostalgic fans that it forgets about the new Galarian Pokémon. This in combination with the lack of continuity and cameos from older Pokémon and human characters is a little bit weird.

This reminds me of Movie 20 which tried to appeal to older fans but also got rid of old nostalgic characters like Kasumi and Takeshi. Then they regretted it and gave them more cameos than necessary which made it feel like they were overcompensating. Too bad that they didn't learn from their past mistakes.

 

[Yami-no-Game]

We should be grateful that Lt. Surge will be mentioned in the Pisces episode and that Lance came back recently too. That's probably as good as it'll get and I don't really have a problem with it because expecting anything more wouldn't be realistic.

 

[Beatsy Ray]

Part of me thinks that Sun & Moon is going to be the only series who's continuity will be properly acknowledged here. Aside from it just being too soon (we're getting an Alola episode any week now leaving a max-30 episode buffer since we've last seen the region), the end of that series was also pretty open-ended. The biggest thing is Lillie's unresolved search for her father (and unevolved Vulpix), but there's also the fact that the other classmates are mostly traveling and could run into Ash. I don't think they'd be too shy about showing Kukui either, after all one of the first visuals we got in episode 2 was a big statue of him. Also Ash is the Alola Champion, which I feel has to be brought up at some point. Realistically if Ash ever makes it to the master class, he will be announced as "Alola Champion" just like Lance and Leon were both given their proper accolades.

In any case, I'm just really eager for an Alola episode so we can see what they intend to do with it. The impending Mantine Surfing episode looks kind of filler-y, so maybe that doesn't bode well.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I think the problem is that the writers just aren't sure what to do with Ash now that he's actually won a Pokémon League. While winning a Pokémon League wasn't Ash's explicit goal at the very beginning of the anime (he wanted to "be the world's greatest Pokémon Master"), it's more or less become his become his goal since the end of Kanto, hence he keeps traveling to different regions and competing in their tournaments.

And there seemed to be this unspoken agreement among the writers that if Ash ever became a true Pokémon Leage Champion, the show would have to end. You can especially see this from Sinnoh onward, when each League arc had an increasingly desperate-looking way to have Ash lose. Sinnoh had Tobias, who flattened Ash with two Legendaries. Unova gave us Cameron, who by all rights should have lost but beat Ash despite a major handicap. And Kalos introduced Alain, who at least was an established character instead of just a plot device, but still won in a very cheap way.

So in Alola, Ash finally wins a League. And I'm sure that leaves the writers asking, "Now what?" It's like trying to make a Road Runner cartoon that takes place after Wile E. Coyote catches the Road Runner. Your character has finally gotten what the entire show has revolved around him trying to get, so what more story is there to tell?

I guess the point I'm trying to make is. . . it might be time to do a reboot of the Pokémon anime.

I'd be kind of annoyed if that was the reasoning since I still don't think that Ash winning the Alola League is that big of a deal. Winning a League where anyone could enter it and the vast majority of the trainers weren't even into battling is immensely different from winning a League where only certain trainers could compete after getting some badges. Winning the Alola League isn't nothing, but I don't think it's so huge to where the writers would be asking what else could they do with Ash, especially when they didn't really have this kind of issue with The Orange Islands League and the Battle Frontier.

A reboot wouldn't really be necessary and doing that right after Ash won the Alola League would have made the accomplishment more moot. Getting a brand new lead wouldn't really be a viable option considering that they wouldn't be as marketable or iconic as Ash is for the anime.

I'm not sure if the anime needs countinuity to be good or popular. XY had no continuity aside from Cilan/Dent in the last episode and a lot of fans believe that XY was the best season.

But I guess the problem with the new anime is that it tries so hard to appeal to older nostalgic fans that it forgets about the new Galarian Pokémon. This in combination with the lack of continuity and cameos from older Pokémon and human characters is a little bit weird.

Technically, there were a few other continuity nods in XY, such as Ash referring to Dawn's Piplup, but they were pretty small all things considered, especially compared to the previous series. Having more continuity nods wouldn't hurt, but I don't think that there absolutely necessary either. I think that the problem is with the basic setup of the series. With Ash going around the world, it would be more natural to throw in some nods to past events or even run into some of his older friends, as unlikely as that would be with how they handle past characters showing up. Since they still try to avoid making continuity nods and don't focus as much on the Galar Pokemon, I can see why it would rub people the wrong way.

This reminds me of Movie 20 which tried to appeal to older fans but also got rid of old nostalgic characters like Kasumi and Takeshi. Then they regretted it and gave them more cameos than necessary which made it feel like they were overcompensating. Too bad that they didn't learn from their past mistakes.

The promotion for I Choose You relied on the nostalgia from the first episode, but since it was ultimately going to be a retelling primarily focused on Ash, I don't think it was a problem that they got rid of Misty and Brock. They most likely wouldn't have gotten anything to do and having them return in SM was a much better option anyway. They got more focus and we got to see how they have progressed since leaving the cast. They also most likely already had at least their first SM appearance planned well before the backlash happened. It was revealed not too long after it was confirmed that they wouldn't be in the then newest movie. I don't see how they gave them more cameos than necessary either. Four episodes isn't really a lot and most fans were happy to see them coming back in the first place. They actually followed up on their promise to go to Alola after the Kanto field trip, so it didn't come out of nowhere either.

 

[Silktree]

1. There is no sign of Ash-Greninja anywhere, just Greninja. The form is unlikely to come back to the games as long as Mega Evolution is absent.
2. XY fans are now teenagers or older. They aren't part of the target audience and nothing says that the writers need to pander to them.
3. It's been stated that this series is also for parents of the target audience, who are familiar with the OS.
4. The second key visual shows Charizard, Bulbasaur and Squirtle in Pallet Town. Gee, I wonder who their trainer is.
5. I do agree that SM being recent makes it more likely to be revisited, but if Kukui's baby is the only tangible plot point, then that isn't exactly much to work with (not to mention the aging thing). Lillie has left Alola and her ending is hardly open ended.

 

[90'sPokéfan]

I don't think they'd be too shy about showing Kukui either, after all one of the first visuals we got in episode 2 was a big statue of him.

Wasn't that statue some kind of trophy Ash got because he won the exibition match? I think you can see this statue next to his Alola League Trophy in the final episode (or one of the final episodes) of the (Ultra) Sun and Moon series in Kukui's house.

I would like some more continuity. But there is continuity.

- The flashback to the very first episode in which Ash obtains Pikachu.
- The Ketchum household obtained Mimey. (But now there is a whole discussion who's Pokémon Mimey is.)
- Ash obtained the Indigo League Badge, the Orange League Trophy, the Hoenn badges, the Sinnoh badges, the Unova badges and the Kalos badges, the Alola League Trophy, the statue (trophy) of Kukui, a Z-ring, the battle frontier symbols,...
- Ash said he has seen Ho-oh.
- Ash know who Jessie, James, Meowth and Wobbuffet were and he told Go the stories of a talking Meowth were real.
-...

In the maybe file:

- I think Ash told Go he is the Alola Champion when they were fighting for their bed.
- Ash mentionned Mankey can be difficult. A nod to his experience with Mankey/Primeape in the past?

So there has been continuity to every former series. If we split the OS in 3 parts (Kanto/Orange Islands/Jotho), I think only Jotho didn't receive anything.

But indeed, a little more continuity, starting with Alola, wouldn't hurt. Most of the children who watch the show now will remember the Sun and Moon series from a couple of months ago.

 

[J Bouken]

Oh he could definitely remember them and maybe even have a small flashback montage about them like he had when he reunited with Misty and Brock in SuMo, but that doesn't mean that they'll be around if he decides to go check on them. They have their own lives and hobbies so even if Ash went to each of their houses (which he probably wouldn't but let's pretend that he would), that wouldn't guarantee that they'd be around since they could be traveling in other regions or running errands on another island or whatever.

Seriously, if I went back to my old hometown and tried to find my old friends from years ago, I probably wouldn't even be able to meet a single one of them because guess what, people have lives to live and can't be expected to drop everything just to convenience their old buddies. The same could apply to the anime and all of Ash's old friends.

I don't just mean his human friends. I mean the Pokemon he left with Kukui. It would be a massively out of character for Ash to not want to see his Alola team.

Also, as a fan, would you really be satisfied with the scenario you outlined? Yes, they could do that, but it would suck. In this world, inconveniences such as "real life" shouldn't even be a consideration.

The majority of Ash's old friends had no problems dropping whatever it was they were doing to visit him in another part of the world. I'd expect his old classmates to do exactly the same.

It's easy. They just don't mention it. It wouldn't even be a retcon since they wouldn't be changing the past in any way by ignoring Greninja.

I have a hard time believing Ash would touch down in Kalos again and never think of Greninja.

What you're proposing is what annoys fans. Ignoring the issue is egregious because it makes little sense for the show's protagonist to ignore it. So they either have to bend Ash out of character or come up with some other contrivance to get around the issue, which is just weird.

2. XY fans are now teenagers or older. They aren't part of the target audience and nothing says that the writers need to pander to them.

Bringing up significant moments in Ash's recent history would hardly be pandering.

5. I do agree that SM being recent makes it more likely to ne revisited, but if Kukui's baby is the only tangible plot point, then that isn't exactly much to work with. Lillie has left Alola and her ending is hardly open ended.

Ash is Champion of that region. I'd say that's a very tangible plot point to work with. Also, Lillie and Gladion never reunited with Mohn.

 

[game3524]

So there has been continuity to every former series. If we split the OS in 3 parts (Kanto/Orange Islands/Jotho), I think only Jotho didn't receive anything.

Technically Lance and Red Gyarados could count as Johto since that was the series he debuted in.

 

[Lightning Flame Blast]

- The flashback to the very first episode in which Ash obtains Pikachu.
- The Ketchum household obtained Mimey. (But now there is a whole discussion who's Pokémon Mimey is.)
- Ash obtained the Indigo League Badge, the Orange League Trophy, the Hoenn badges, the Sinnoh badges, the Unova badges and the Kalos badges, the Alola League Trophy, the statue (trophy) of Kukui, a Z-ring, the battle frontier symbols,...
- Ash said he has seen Ho-oh.
- Ash know who Jessie, James, Meowth and Wobbuffet were and he told Go the stories of a talking Meowth were real.
-...

In the maybe file:

- I think Ash told Go he is the Alola Champion when they were fighting for their bed.
- Ash mentionned Mankey can be difficult. A nod to his experience with Mankey/Primeape in the past?

You see, this is why this series has a continuity problem. We’re so desperate to get any sort of factual reference to the past in a series that’s meant to do just this that we start leaping in joy whenever the writers throw us some tiny bones like these that nobody would ever look twice upon in the first four seasons.

Not attacking anyone in particular, but people pointing these hints as the sacred continuity everyone’s begging for seem to only be in denial.