Preview BW090: The Junior Cup Gets Underway! Kairyu VS Tunbear!!

[Trainer Yusuf]

I wonder if the Dragonite might be released. It's appearance in the opening shows it with wild Pokemon.

It shows Kairyu with Chris' Kumasyun and Shirona's Glacia.

So yeah.

 

[Adil]

I wonder if the Dragonite might be released. It's appearance in the opening shows it with wild Pokemon.

It shows Kairyu with Chris' Kumasyun and Shirona's Glacia.

So yeah.

Not really, and Chris's Kumasyun? Why would they even include a CotD's Pokemon in an opening? Looks like a wild Pokemon to me.

Also, that doesn't prove anything, to be honest. We did saw "our" Larvitar and its 'scratched' mother running along with the gang in one of the openings. Did anyone capture, get reunited or got even mentioned? No. So, that wild Pokemon part from the opening doesn't mean a thing.

Anyway, I am not completely sure why, but something tells me that Iris might be able to get through the first round and somehow ends up in a battle against Drayden during the tournament (not necessarily in this episode, but the overall tournament).

 

[FroztyJake]

I hope Dragonite isn't overpower like all the other Dragonite in the anime.

 

[HumanDawn]

I hope Dragonite isn't overpower like all the other Dragonite in the anime.

I think the only time a Dragonite was ever cut down back a notch was in DP, when Paul's Honchkrow beat a trained Dragonite with only one attack. Though, that was done to make him look like a threat for Ash to beat and horribly rush to their battle that took half the time of the episode. So yeah, Iris has 2 logical reasons now as to why she could lose. There's still a chance she could win, though.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

Can't say im shocked. Maybe little surprised, but ever since they started promoting Dragonite showing Iris to have hands in it, i expected that writers are going to have her obtain it in one way or another. But in all honesty this just screams bad writing and laziness from writers part using easy way to make someone look strong instead of working hard with your pokemon gradually improving step by step. For every strong pokemon Misty, May or Dawn got they worked hard, dealing with various problems but it seems writers decided to completely change their style of writing giving Iris fully evolved and one of strongest pokemon just because they can.

I do like Iris and im partially excited about Dragonite if anything to see how will things turn out, but at same time i cannot deny that writers are treating Iris character lately rather bad, having her succeed as trainer without any real foreshadowing and proper development taking place before that. Never mind fact that Axew is pushed aside instead of writers focusing on it and have him develop and evolve.

Way things are going, suddenly its not that impossible anymore that Iris wins basically whole Junior Cup or end up in finals, winning prize to challenge Alder, eventually becoming champion in relatively short period of time. When taking in account fact that they are already starting to build up her team giving her powerful dragons, synchronizing with dragon types adequately reaching to their hearts we can expect to see equivalent of Lance in near future. Maybe not in BW series, but in next saga all bets are open.

Unfortunately this wont end well for Dawn either, and if she loses relatively early than whole purpose behind traveling to Unova to improve skills as coordinator will suddenly become insignificant.

I presume main reason behind this could be Iris role of champion in BW2 games, with anime trying from start to portray Iris as special, prodigy trainer which is just one inch from completing goal of becoming dragon master to have her come close to role her game counterpart holds as quickly as possible ignoring fact that this is just rushed and terrible handle of someone story. However on other hand judging by Axew battle abilities being basically at baby stage still having long way to go, gives out impression that Iris is anything but able to control final stage pokemon without any side effects taking place. Which gives me small glimpse of hope how she wont be able to properly command Dragonite with bond at some point snapping between pokemon and trainer resulting in failure at tournament, with Drayden becoming disappointed at Iris methods of training criticizing it.

On second thought sadly its not like they care about older audience and what they want, and since small kids can generally swallow anything still enjoying in show writers can get away with such questionable out of blue moves. But even kids have their limits and can take only so much before they start to lose interest.

Well this proves it, Iris now has the strongest team of all the main girls. Dragonite could probably wipe out Dawn's entire team easily aside from maybe Mamoswine.

I hope Dawn and Iris don't battle.

Dragonite is strong, though its not unbeatable. May Blaziken or Misty Gyarados could give him run for its money, and maybe Dawn Mamoswine. I wont go into possible of screen captures, but im fairly sure they got some changes to teams,now if only writers ever bring them back to witness that.

 

[Trainer Yusuf]

Not really,

Well yeah. But the reason why all those Pokémon are included is because most of them are appearing in Season 2, at least so far. Of course it isn't really their Pokémon, but so far only members of the species are theirs, as such the Pokémon in the opening can be considered placeholders to what appears in the series.

 

[HumanDawn]

But in all honesty this just screams bad writing and laziness from writers part using easy way to make someone look strong instead of working hard with your pokemon gradually improving step by step. For every strong pokemon Misty, May or Dawn got they worked hard, dealing with various problems but it seems writers decided to completely change their style of writing giving Iris fully evolved and one of strongest pokemon just because they can.

First of all, Misty didn't train a Magikarp and made it evolve into a Gyarados. The Gyarados Misty got was from one of the many Magikarp that evolved in the gym. It only started to obey her when she took a Poison Sting from a Tentacruel for him. Which is good, but she still didn't train it, and yet it's bad? Iris is going to risk her life and bond with the rampaging Dragonite, and yet it's bad for when Iris gets one? Sure a tournament is happening after it, but that's what's making Iris at a disadvantage because it's an untrained one. She's taking risks, and yet that's bad? So, if Ash was handed a strong legendary to use in tournaments, it won't make him look cheap because he went on many journeys?

Secondly, even if Dawn got all the 5 ribbons to enter, it disnt't mean that she should have just been handed out a strong Pokemon that specializes on what she does with no bonding and interactions whatsoever. Iris is clearly bonding with the Dragonite helping it to calm down. Yet, it's okay to you that Dawn gets one along with being a friggin princess for the day just because she entered in more competitions? (Along with getting a Swinub that quickly evolved into a Mamoswine that had an illogical problem with her and a Cyndaquil that quickly became a competent battler and mastered 4 moves with some on screen training while Buneary still knew 3 moves)

I do like Iris and im partially excited about Dragonite if anything to see how will things turn out, but at same time i cannot deny that writers are treating Iris character lately rather bad, having her succeed as trainer without any real foreshadowing and proper development taking place before that. Never mind fact that Axew is pushed aside instead of writers focusing on it and have him develop and evolve.

Her only successes this saga is winning the first Don Battle Tournament, managing to get some experience to understand dragons more and managing to make Axew grow and be more competent. From getting experience on the physical side of dragons with Druddigon and the emotional side from Deino, it isn't far fetched that she'll be able to utilize both sizes with Dragonite. Axew isn't being pushed aside either with the onscreen training that it has been receiving with Excadrill. With the Dragonite, Axew could see it battle, train with it and learn from it just like from what the little training it did with Garchomp in the first BW2 episode made it achieve. So, getting the Dragonite will help Iris train Axew and make it a better battler quicker.

Way things are going, suddenly its not that impossible anymore that Iris wins basically whole Junior Cup or end up in finals, winning prize to challenge Alder, eventually becoming champion in relatively short period of time. When taking in account fact that they are already starting to build up her team giving her powerful dragons, synchronizing with dragon types adequately reaching to their hearts we can expect to see equivalent of Lance in near future. Maybe not in BW series, but in next saga all bets are open.

That's too soon to say for sure.

Unfortunately this wont end well for Dawn either, and if she loses relatively early than whole purpose behind traveling to Unova to improve skills as coordinator will suddenly become insignificant.

Because somebody beat her? If she loses early, it would mean for her that she has to train harder, so I don't see how it's insignificant if it teaches her of how she's faring as a trainer.

I presume main reason behind this could be Iris role of champion in BW2 games, with anime trying from start to portray Iris as special, prodigy trainer which is just one inch from completing goal of becoming dragon master to have her come close to role her game counterpart holds as quickly as possible ignoring fact that this is just rushed and terrible handle of someone story. However on other hand judging by Axew battle abilities being basically at baby stage still having long way to go, gives out impression that Iris is anything but able to control final stage pokemon without any side effects taking place. Which gives me small glimpse of hope how she wont be able to properly command Dragonite with bond at some point snapping between pokemon and trainer resulting in failure at tournament, with Drayden becoming disappointed at Iris methods of training criticizing it.

True, it could work if the bond is broken at first. The Drayden thing about him becoming disappointed would be wonderful.

On second thought sadly its not like they care about older audience and what they want, and since small kids can generally swallow anything still enjoying in show writers can get away with such questionable out of blue moves. But even kids have their limits and can take only so much before they start to lose interest.

Dawn and Cynthia have returned and Brock was just mentioned in the new Onix episode. The opening also had nearly all the Pokemon Ash traveled with Tracey of all people with them! Sure, they should make Misty and May return too to give us an update on how they're doing, but right now it's okay. Dawn could mention May in the next few episodes too.

Wait what? Are we getting off-topic here?

 

[BigDocFan]

I won't be surprised if Iris wins, the anime makes psuedo-legendary Pokemon like Dragonite hard to beat when in the games, they are just as beatable as other Pokemon.

Same goes for legendary Pokemon

 

[HumanDawn]

I won't be surprised if Iris wins, the anime makes psuedo-legendary Pokemon like Dragonite hard to beat when in the games, they are just as beatable as other Pokemon.

Same goes for legendary Pokemon

Paul's Honchkrow beat a trained Dragonite with only one attack. Iris' soon-to-be Dragonite is untrained and has a massive type disadvantage. Everything looks like it's in favor of Beartic. How the writers will handle that is uncertain. I still doubt that she'll beat the league. For her to become a Champion like in the games, a timeskip of at least 2 years has to occur.

 

[Sheep]

The writers had a great opportunity to give Iris Deino but instead she got Dragonite... ugh. I'm finding her more and more of a chore to watch the more we progress through Unova (and this is coming from an ex-fan). I just don't understand why she was given the fully evolved, obscenely powerful form and not Dratini to start off or something. If she absolutely had to get it, I'd have preferred she got its first form and had it evolve to Dragonair by the time she left the series... since getting a Dratini to its final stage is supposed to require a lot of work/training, not handed to you on a silver platter. But this is Iris we're talking about, so I guess it makes sense...

uuugh this is why I've barely been keeping up with the anime lately. But I am looking forward to how she handles it in this battle.

 

[Chiplet]

To be honest, I actually think that all of the main girls have gotten one or more Pokémon that in one way or another has received very poor development.

Misty got that Gyarados, although I thought giving her Gyarados was a bit more fair considering that she no longer was part of the main cast, and that it finally gave her the chance to help her getting through her fear of the species. So, I really didn't mind that at all.

May both got Squirtle and Eevee, who at least I thought got super strong in no time at all. Eevee had absolutely no battle experience, and still within the time of 10 episodes it actually managed to beat Brock's Marhstomp in a contest battle, not to mention that Eevee along with Munchlax managed to take out Harley's Wigglytuff and Cacturne, and we all know that Cacturne is Harley's main Pokémon.

Dawn got Mamoswine and Togekiss, whereas Mamoswine evolved from Swinub in a really illogical and rushed way, while Togekiss, who clearly was established as a formidable Pokémon in its contest together with the princess, was handed right to Dawn just a couple of episodes before the GF. Cyndaquil also deserved a mention, who pretty much become an über just after it hatched.

Iris has Axew, who with little development has received a couple of powerful moves which didn't make that much sense for it to get, and now Dragonite, where the Togekiss-thing will be repeated.

The talk about training Dragon-types being harder to raise is true, but it still doesn't justify the fact that other Pokémon should suddenly receive powerful moves and become way stronger with just as poor development. Each and every Pokémon comes with a challenge of training and raising, and each one of them should also receive a decent amount of time for it to develop and train, only to later truly show its progress when the spotlight finally is given to it.

Handing over Dragonite to her just like that is unfair, indeed, but Iris is not the only one. Not to mention that we haven't even seen anything from Dragonite yet, only a couple of seconds from different previews. I, at least, feel a bit ashamed of being so harsh earlier, judging Iris and Dragonite when we even haven't seen anything from the two of them yet. Wouldn't it make more sense to save the complaints and the judging until AFTER we've seen them in action? It's understandable to be upset about her actually receiving it, because I'm upset too, but throwing out crazy and unfair statements about Iris and her development seems kinda unfair to me.
I mean, who knows. Dragonite might later form out to be this huge struggle that lots of people have been waiting to see for Iris go through. After all, as Grave-E mentioned, it has definitely been displayed to have some forms of issues that might last much longer after that Iris has actually caught it, which could force her to actually focus some more at her goal. We don't know anything yet.

I agree with the fact that handing it over to her is in no way fair, but I still think it's too early to make such harsh judgements when we haven't even seen it yet.

 

[HumanDawn]

not handed to you on a silver platter.

The only literal example of a Pokemon being handed to somebody on a silver platter was when Dawn got Togekiss. All she did was be a princess for a day(a few hours that somehow made her whine to be exact) and got it with no bonding and interactions. With Iris on the other hand, she was shown(in the previews) to risk her life, therefore struggling. It comes off as no surprise to me that she managed to calm it down through the experience she got from the dragons she met during her journey. Iris isn't getting a Dragonite from a trainer out of nowhere, therefore she wasn't handed Dragonite on a silver platter.

 

[BigDocFan]

I won't be surprised if Iris wins, the anime makes psuedo-legendary Pokemon like Dragonite hard to beat when in the games, they are just as beatable as other Pokemon.

Same goes for legendary Pokemon

Paul's Honchkrow beat a trained Dragonite with only one attack. Iris' soon-to-be Dragonite is untrained and has a massive type disadvantage. Everything looks like it's in favor of Beartic. How the writers will handle that is uncertain. I still doubt that she'll beat the league. For her to become a Champion like in the games, a timeskip of at least 2 years has to occur.

One example of easy to defeat I admit.

Drake's Dragonite
Tobias' Darkrai
Anabel's Metagross
Tobias' Latios
Cynthia's Garchomp

 

[matt0044]

Chiplet's got a point. We could at least wait a little and see the Dragonite in action before going all crazy in judgements. BW(2) hasn't got a good track record but you shouldn't knock it before watching it.

 

[Catspring]

I'm the only person in the entire world who not only likes, but loves the fact that Iris gets Kairyu.

My opinions are always lonely.

 

[HumanDawn]

Chiplet's got a point. We could at least wait a little and see the Dragonite in action before going all crazy in judgements. BW(2) hasn't got a good track record but you shouldn't knock it before watching it.

I know! Every time I do something similar in BW, it always turned out to be good and entertaining for me! Every time it happened with DP, I always got disappointed :/ Just now, I thought that Dawn coming back would have made the show as it bad, but luckily she didn't bore me and instead entertained me in Onix episodes with her interaction with Iris(Iris should have been in DP xD, but then I think she'd be treated badly :/). The same thing happened with the Roxie two-parter and the Tepig episode. So yeah, lets hope for the best with how this will be handled

I'm the only person in the entire world who not only likes, but loves the fact that Iris gets Kairyu.

My opinions are always lonely.

You're not alone. It's actually about time.

 

[FroztyJake]

As long as the Dragonite isn't overpower i think it might be good.

 

[Cybersai]

I wish Ash got Dragonite. He really needs a good Pokemon on his Unova team.

Hopefully this means Gible can return and fully evolve.

 

[Masurao]

I wish Ash got Dragonite.

I'd rather see him raise it up from a Dratini rather than just being handed off to him.

Hopefully this means Gible can return and fully evolve.

Yeah, he'll might actually train it from it's base stage and through that it'll reach it's final. Unlike the freebie, powerhouse Iris is being given.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

First of all, Misty didn't train a Magikarp and made it evolve into a Gyarados. The Gyarados Misty got was from one of the many Magikarp that evolved in the gym. It only started to obey her when she took a Poison Sting from a Tentacruel for him. Which is good, but she still didn't train it, and yet it's bad? Iris is going to risk her life and bond with the rampaging Dragonite, and yet it's bad for when Iris gets one? Sure a tournament is happening after it, but that's what's making Iris at a disadvantage because it's an untrained one. She's taking risks, and yet that's bad? So, if Ash was handed a strong legendary to use in tournaments, it won't make him look cheap because he went on many journeys?

Purpose behind Misty obtaining Gyarados was to help her get over long time fear she had since childhood, with character gaining something out of it becoming better water trainer and judging by her skills and determination she grew enough to warrant more muscle being added to her team. Im not sure what will Iris gain from Dragonite capture with this seeming more to me like writers way to turn her in champion ready level without adequate amount of development and effort invested in her story.

Secondly, even if Dawn got all the 5 ribbons to enter, it disnt't mean that she should have just been handed out a strong Pokemon that specializes on what she does with no bonding and interactions whatsoever. Iris is clearly bonding with the Dragonite helping it to calm down. Yet, it's okay to you that Dawn gets one along with being a friggin princess for the day just because she entered in more competitions? (Along with getting a Swinub that quickly evolved into a Mamoswine that had an illogical problem with her and a Cyndaquil that quickly became a competent battler and mastered 4 moves with some on screen training while Buneary still knew 3 moves)

When mentioning working hard to gain strong pokemon i was speaking in general. Yes Dawn being handed Togekiss just like that was bad too and Cyndaquil treatment wasn't all that believable either, but with Piplup, Mamoswine or Pachirisu we saw some genuine growth with lot of training and effort being put in whole thing.

Iris receiving fully evolved dragon type with no foreshadowing happening prior to that, while main reason behind her journey Axew is currently put in second plan with focus not being concentrated on his growth and training don't help Iris since she doesn't gain anything other than powerful pokemon in her team. Axew was supposed to serve as indication of Iris coming closer toward achievement of dragon master goal, with increase in strength and evolution reflecting growth and improvement she is making as trainer.

But instead of writers focusing on that, they rather decided to give her fully evolved dragon type already without character being developed enough to warrant such move. It also make Axew seem obsolete and pointless in first place, since it make it seem how she didn't needed Axew and make him evolve in first place to become powerful dragon trainer and learn how to reach to dragon hearts, establishing close bond with them.

Now if there occur some difficulties with owning of such powerful pokemon backfiring on Iris making her to regress in her quest, than yes Dragonite capture could potentially help her in development serving as pointer to establish stronger connection with Axew and serve as prequel to his growth in future. But capturing Dragonite and commanding it perfectly coming of as some sort of Mary Sue which already knows how to communicate properly with dragons, train them and catch some of strongest ones without any effort and struggle existing behind it won't help Iris growth at all being nothing more than character derailment.

Her only successes this saga is winning the first Don Battle Tournament, managing to get some experience to understand dragons more and managing to make Axew grow and be more competent. From getting experience on the physical side of dragons with Druddigon and the emotional side from Deino, it isn't far fetched that she'll be able to utilize both sizes with Dragonite. Axew isn't being pushed aside either with the onscreen training that it has been receiving with Excadrill. With the Dragonite, Axew could see it battle, train with it and learn from it just like from what the little training it did with Garchomp in the first BW2 episode made it achieve. So, getting the Dragonite will help Iris train Axew and make it a better battler quicker.

When talking lately, im talking about present and what has been happening now. Instead of writers focusing more on Axew and its development to have him grow stronger, bond on closer level with Iris, eventually growing in strong, fully evolved dragon type. They chosen easy way giving her instead pseudo legendary dragon type to compensate for lack of development they have been doing with Axew which stayed on basic level.

Im sorry but that seems like poor writing to me and while i wont judge it until i see how whole thing with Dragonite is going to be handled, right now from the looks of it there doesn't exist any drawbacks from it making whole capture look unbelievable and cheap.

However if Dragonite turns out to be burden and too big of bite for Iris to handle, it will make character understand what she is doing wrong helping her to better understand pokemon feelings and create stronger bond with Axew gaining something out of it. Making whole capture more justified ad done for bigger cause.

That's too soon to say for sure.

Considering how anime follows games nowadays much more than it used to do in past, and judging by build up writers have been doing with Iris lately, while not guaranteed there exists good chance that she in short period reach champion level, just like game counterpart after only 2 years in games got promoted.

Because somebody beat her? If she loses early, it would mean for her that she has to train harder, so I don't see how it's insignificant if it teaches her of how she's faring as a trainer.

That depends at what stage in tournament shes gonna lose. If she drops already in first round, whats the point of entering tournament in first place and show improvement she made in meantime?
That way since she would drop out too soon to battle different trainers and confront various strategies, she wont be able to determine what works and what doesn't within her strategy being just another loss,with character not making any step forward in learning how to improve strategy. Failures were probably main motivation behind Dawn decision to go to Unova and learn about different methodology trainers in Unova practice helping her to grow as coordinator, so im not sure how another loss already at start of some event is going to change anything.

Not to mention character from past which is brought back usually has some success when making appearance to please fans and make him leave good impression on viewers.

True, it could work if the bond is broken at first. The Drayden thing about him becoming disappointed would be wonderful.

If that happens ill be fine with Dragonite capture but if everything goes perfectly with Iris winning whole thing without any drawback emerging on surface will make whole Dragonite obtaining cheap and poorly written in first place.

Dawn and Cynthia have returned and Brock was just mentioned in the new Onix episode. The opening also had nearly all the Pokemon Ash traveled with Tracey of all people with them! Sure, they should make Misty and May return too to give us an update on how they're doing, but right now it's okay. Dawn could mention May in the next few episodes too.

Wait what? Are we getting off-topic here?

Fair enough, this could open door for return of other older characters too with anime becoming imbued with more continuity. However most often than not writers could care less what older fanbase wants, considering how we are not demographic toward who this show has been targeted. Judging by complaints of disproportion in skills which fluctuate in Ash case from region to regain not regaining same amount of experience, older characters not being featured more or brought back to cast etc which were never took in consideration is pretty good indication in itself how fan requests fall on deaf ears with writers being only concerned about target demographic.

p.s. Yes i believe we started to wear of topic too, so to avoid further derailing maybe it would be best to leave this on note agree to disagree. Like i said ill wait with final judgment until episodes get aired, but for time being this is my stance on it.