Mafia Periodic Table Mafia ~ Endgame

[HumanDawn]

Wasn't your point that town doc needs to exist if mafia BP exists? That's what I don't get.

No, it was that the Town doc exists for Nightkills, and Town also having a BP coukd be because of FA's role.

 

[Elieson]

Uhhh... guys, I don't think claiming the category you fall in is a smart idea while FinalArcadia is still alive .

Re: CheffofGames potentially being a scum BP. If they're a scum BP we must have a Town role that also counters it along with Doc for Nightkills so if there are any BP counterclaims and Cheff is still alive, it would be wise to counterclaim them.

People claiming passives automatically partially townread because of it

Thank you HD for not just believing it because of laziness. With an ITP, scum having a BP makes incredible sense (scum normally has ways to counter what exists, and it's legit possible).

The BP claim means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things, and that's a shame. It's arguably a decent thing to have FA shoot at because it has equal potential to be an ITP/Scum role or role piece, or just a bluff. If anything, there's accountability now in case a cop ends up on them or something.

Even if they don't succeed tomorrow, the fact we won't have any proof they did the kill pretty much means they'll achieve victory by Day 3.

Yea; I'm pretty sure town's not gonna lose the game by Day 3 because assuming FA's not bullshitting everything, FA's victory spells doom for the world and everyone else in it.

After all, just because they can kill at night doesn't mean they're the only one. JD is one example. What's to stop my ability from gaining me a single-use kill skill, killing some random town member, and framing FA for it? Or a Mafia killer from killing town and framing FA for it? The fact is, they could murder a townie every night and the only way we'd know for certain it was them is if we lynched them and the murders stopped. Or they achieved their victory condition.

As I and many others have stated many times, FA's worth working with until we have a reason to distrust them. We don't lose the game if FA does something dumb. FA loses the game if she does something dumb though. That's an incredible amount of pressure to live up to and she's walking on very thin ice already. If you don't want to use everything that town has access to (including a non-town killing claim), then that's an issue with your preferences and ignoring both optimal usage of roles and efficient play in general.

We removed FA's Mafia kill requirement. One metal, one metalloid, one nonmetal. If your theory is correct, then town are metals, indeps are metalloids, and mafia are nonmetals. FA only has a metal and a metalloid left.

Assuming that this is correct, FA's inclined to work with town even more seriously now, because it will be a huge dissapointment to the slot if some other ITP dies that FA's required to kill, and mafia gets to it first.

I'm having difficulty ascertaining whether you simply dedicated yourself to believing that FA and I are trolling the entire game as a scumteam, or if you just really want ITP!FA dead. What do you even believe right now? Other than shouting that "Elie's ideas are super scummy but literally no one is listening to me so ya'll are a bunch of ninnies who should just lynch the guy I disagree with", who do you think is scum aka other than FA, who do you think is scum and why? You've spent literally the entire game spouting paranoia and causing more headaches than I did when I claimed unrecruitable.

Which is it? Am I scum? Am I teamed up with FA? Are FA and I scum? Please, convince the entire game that I've been misleading town this entire time, because you've said just about everything except that I'm a second ITP working against FA but still hostile to town and tbh I'm expecting you to say it since nothing else you've said really makes more than 10-15% sense so far

Ah, a serial killer who has reason to work with scum...

Okay, I'm going to be blunt: I think Elie and FA are a scum team.

Elie's plan is schmuck bait. What is to really stop FA from killing people at night anyway, no matter what we vote? FA can always claim it was someone else. We have an admitted anti-town indep, and we're... cutting a deal with them? Really? And we're supposed to trust someone who admits they have to kill at least one of us, if not more, to not take the kill the first opportunity they get? And if FA is Mafia, this would be a perfect way to secure one of their members against killing by town.

If we go along with Elie's plan, we might as well just lynch ourselves and save the Mafia the trouble.

As for Elie... Elie has been pressuring people for much of the game, has been implying and accusing scum like crazy over things that really are not even close to reasonable suspicion, and tries to get people to post more only to complain about the posts not being of a certain quality when that's done. And then complaining about the strategies of others when the lack of usefulness of this strategy is brought up by someone pressured.

Overall, I think those two are scum and town is being played.

like bro, you contradicted your initial unexplained thought with a case that is arguably ok if applied lategame, which is still a bad case because it goes against the results of the Day 1 Lynch. If you want me lynched, build a good case. I'd help you out coming up with a case or two against me but you need to spend your time determining if you just don't like my playstyle or if you actually think I'm scum (and I've had people like you come at me with the same exact stuff before many many times, so this isn't something that I'm unfamiliar with hearing, which is why I don't care about what you and your tunnelvision think about me).


@Sword Master Why did you strongly defend jdthebud in #402 and #410?

@Zexy How are you feeling?

 

[Pikochu]

Just less than 13 hours to get your night actions in! All actions must be received by then (April 27th, 9:30PM UTC -8). Timer to the end of Night 1

Are we allowed to hint more specifically, as in "I'm alkali/alkaline earth/transition metal/poor metal/boron/oxygen/nitrogen group/halogen/noble gas etc.?

Yes.

If you have any questions, please be sure to mention @Pikochu and @Elementar.

 

[Elieson]

If you have any questions, please be sure to mention @Pikochu and @Elementar.

Would you consider running an Elemental Hero deck?

 

[DarthWolf]

The game gets to control any shots (assuming that you can only shoot at night) that you make, but in exchange, we'll not vote for you for three days (giving you time to lynch yourself to a win, or at least get closer to your wincon's goal). @basically everyone; does this seem like a fair deal to offer up with our self-aligned collector of sorts?

FA doesn't need to use NK's right? As long as she joins in the lynch it will count towards the wincon. An extra NK, unless we are certain, has too big of a chance to get a Townie and therefore works as an Anti-Town mechanic.

You're assuming that all the targets I'm after would be town, but I don't think that's the case. If it was, I'd might as well just be scum. It might be a split between alignments, and that's what I'm thinking is the case here.

I'm on board with cooperating with FA, for now. I have a potentially working theory about who's town vs. who's scum, and if my theory is correct, FA's targets are as follows:
1 town
1 scum
1 indep

jd seems the most suspicious to me at the moment for reasons that others have already said.

This is just joining a current wagon, without giving your own reasoning (or at least tell what others think to show that you understand it). Besides, if he is your top scum read, why don't you vote him?

eeehh, what the heck

Vote: jdthebud

I don't really get the case but I think I'd rather give FinalArcadia at least one night alive.

I can see that you want to safe the indep, but I don't like the way that you do it. It's basically just following the others. If you don't it you should ask why people find him suspicious.

Point is, Cheff, all you had to do was this:

Spoiler

undefined

What part falls under Metalloids?

but cheiff is new to mafia (I think?)

Depends on your definition of new. He started at the same time as me, dec 2016, with the Holiday Mafia. Most people don't call us new anymore though.
His signature has a link to his played games (that reminds me to finish mine as well). Look at it and you'll see he has some experience.

Though I'm not sure what would happen if I died the same phase as I achieved my win-con (like bomb or vengeful or something happened). I'll have to ask about that.

This being the case, should you successfully be responsible for the death of the other two categories, what if you were then reaponsible for your own death?

Suicide would be an interesting strategy. If this is indeed allowed then I'd suggest using your vig on yourself instead of a lynch. That'll just safe us votes and time in scumhunting.

though looking at the Periodic Table now, it looks like I fall into the 2nd least common one

Are you allowed to say this?

Wow, lots of activity here.
I just skimmed through for now

I would love to hear your current reads/thougts once you are better.

Why not vote for a claimed independent? Just because FA says he will "let town decide", doesn't mean we can trust him.

Why would you when you can vote a possible scum?

I didn't have any solid cases at the time so I decided to vote the building wagon on you because you were one of the more inactive players. I also know more of FinalArcadia and believe that she's at least not scum, which is more than your slot.

So you're bandwagoning?

I'm wondering why Elie is unrecruitable of all people. Are there more? Is it because Elie is scum or indep? Would OC with Elie be too OP? I would like thoughts from people on this, especially from @Elieson.

Okay, I'm going to be blunt: I think Elie and FA are a scum team.

Elie's plan is schmuck bait. What is to really stop FA from killing people at night anyway, no matter what we vote? FA can always claim it was someone else. We have an admitted anti-town indep, and we're... cutting a deal with them? Really? And we're supposed to trust someone who admits they have to kill at least one of us, if not more, to not take the kill the first opportunity they get? And if FA is Mafia, this would be a perfect way to secure one of their members against killing by town.

If we go along with Elie's plan, we might as well just lynch ourselves and save the Mafia the trouble.

As for Elie... Elie has been pressuring people for much of the game, has been implying and accusing scum like crazy over things that really are not even close to reasonable suspicion, and tries to get people to post more only to complain about the posts not being of a certain quality when that's done. And then complaining about the strategies of others when the lack of usefulness of this strategy is brought up by someone pressured.

Overall, I think those two are scum and town is being played.

Wouldn't we only see 1 NK if this was the case?

You know you can always stop changing your username

Says the one who also changed at least once

With the number of people voting for him and how little time there is left, would trying even matter?

I'm not saying he's not scum. I am saying that even if he's not, the vote count at last update makes defense rather pointless.

Of course trying would matter. If you don't it could be a sign of giving up. If you do, you might have a chance to convince others, especially with a role claim.

Whoa whoa time out this is still day 1? Umm if the consensus is of the bud
Vote: jdthebud

Appearing only after ME called you out and leave a vote without a good explanation. This seems suspicious and I would like to hear your thoughts on the game.

I have read up to the point of the lynch. I will read the rest a later point today.

 

[Space]

I'm planning to review more in depth on what I missed later, but for now I've got some questions.

what metal/non-metal would be a miller? could a metalloid be one or something? on a similar note, there's gotta be at least one mafia that bussed jdthebud. with how jackatlasred just came in and voted him (after having said nothing else), it makes me suspicious of him.

also why would there be a one-shot anytime cop? considering there was a godfather, there's most likely a regular cop.

 

[Sword Master]

As I and many others have stated many times, FA's worth working with until we have a reason to distrust them. We don't lose the game if FA does something dumb. FA loses the game if she does something dumb though. That's an incredible amount of pressure to live up to and she's walking on very thin ice already. If you don't want to use everything that town has access to (including a non-town killing claim), then that's an issue with your preferences and ignoring both optimal usage of roles and efficient play in general.

@jackatlasred thoughts on town using a ITP vig to kill targets? Does it take all the fun of victory out for you?

I didn't think the case on Jd was particularly strong, and was weird how a bandwagon grew out of little evidence, but I was wrong.

 

[Elieson]

I'm wondering why Elie is unrecruitable of all people. Are there more? Is it because Elie is scum or indep? Would OC with Elie be too OP? I would like thoughts from people on this, especially from @Elieson.

OC with me leads to games being positively destroyed, so yea it'd be OP I'm not sure why I'm unrecruitable but it's entirely possible that there's others who share my condition (or not), and given how FA claimed to be a neighborizer, that might be the kind of thing it's referring to. I personally think that it's more likely to be related to masons but all-encompassing, and masons make sense in the world of elements IMO

what metal/non-metal would be a miller? could a metalloid be one or something? on a similar note, there's gotta be at least one mafia that bussed jdthebud. with how jackatlasred just came in and voted him (after having said nothing else), it makes me suspicious of him.

Thoughts on Miller Claim validity then? He's not doing much aside from that but your case depends on your feelings towards Millerclaim.

 

[Maniacal Engineer]

What part falls under Metalloids?

Spoiler: better now? :P

I'm planning to review more in depth on what I missed later, but for now I've got some questions.

what metal/non-metal would be a miller? could a metalloid be one or something? on a similar note, there's gotta be at least one mafia that bussed jdthebud. with how jackatlasred just came in and voted him (after having said nothing else), it makes me suspicious of him.

also why would there be a one-shot anytime cop? considering there was a godfather, there's most likely a regular cop.

If jack is to be believed, there are both a Godfather and a Miller in the game. It does admittedly seem like a bit much for there to only be a 1x Anytime Cop. On the other hand, it doesn't exclude the possibility, either. Worth looking into, perhaps.

@jackatlasred thoughts on town using a ITP vig to kill targets? Does it take all the fun of victory out for you?

That is a decidedly odd question to ask...

 

[Sword Master]

I remember in chaos mafia using the vig for the town's advantage, but Jack said that will take the fun of victory (we lynched Jack soon after) and it will be cheating, I want to see if his views have changed from then.

 

[FinalArcadia]

Wow, at least all the pressure you were under eventually led to results, @Midorikawa lol. Outside of extreme early-wagon bussing, which seems unlikely, looks like town has two people to cross off the list in Midori and therefore Lone_Garurumon as well.

Also, @everyone please let me know the consensus opinion on who to shoot before roughly 7:30 pm EST US time. Or give me three choices to choose from if that's safer. I mean, I can play nice if you guys would rather me not shoot at all this time if that means you'll all let me live to win through lynches hopefully. But I'd prefer you all giving me instructions.

Elie's plan is schmuck bait. What is to really stop FA from killing people at night anyway, no matter what we vote? FA can always claim it was someone else. We have an admitted anti-town indep, and we're... cutting a deal with them? Really? And we're supposed to trust someone who admits they have to kill at least one of us, if not more, to not take the kill the first opportunity they get? And if FA is Mafia, this would be a perfect way to secure one of their members against killing by town.

If we go along with Elie's plan, we might as well just lynch ourselves and save the Mafia the trouble.

Serious question: Do you scumread me? If you don't, then honestly this seems like a waste of time for town when you guys have got some good momentum going from lynching the godfather so early, and as a result being able to read the votes closer. Scum should be priority #1 for town since you all KNOW that scum will target town. Even if you don't trust me to listen to everyone in-thread, at least I could still hit non-town by chance. I don't see how I'm worth wasting a day phase over rather than scum, and this just distracts town from scum. Just treat me like an assassin for hire, since it doesn't benefit me one bit to get on town's bad side unless I know I can win the game immediately doing otherwise. And that's not the case now, and I'd be gone after that anyway.

FA, am I correct in assuming you are a metalloid?

@FinalArcadia , any word yet as to whether you can lynch yourself and ergo meet the criteria?

I'm a non-metal, so my own death wouldn't do me any good anyway. And when I'd asked, it wouldn't have counted anyhow, nor would me dying the same phase I hit my last requirement in general.

We removed FA's Mafia kill requirement. One metal, one metalloid, one nonmetal. If your theory is correct, then town are metals, indeps are metalloids, and mafia are nonmetals. FA only has a metal and a metalloid left.

All evidence that I am currently aware of supports this theory, but all it takes it one data point to disprove it.

This looks like it was already disproven from other claims, but given that I'm also a non-metal I'm thinking we might be looking at a mixture of element types for each alignment. Though there must be some rhyme or reason for alignments here. I know mine makes sense for my role and alignment at least.

what metal/non-metal would be a miller? could a metalloid be one or something? on a similar note, there's gotta be at least one mafia that bussed jdthebud. with how jackatlasred just came in and voted him (after having said nothing else), it makes me suspicious of him.

Without knowing the pattern for how alignments got assigned to each element, seems like it'd be hard to tell what is miller-worthy. Though generally millers claim early so that in itself isn't really suspicious, and in an 18-player game a miller is probably pretty likely to exist. I'm sure there was some bussing in the jd wagon though. Might also be scum in the group that wanted to lynch me since it probably looked like the likeliest alternative to push and risk-free since no one could be blamed for a mislynch since I'm not town.

 

[Sword Master]

I remember in chaos mafia using the vig for the town's advantage, but Jack said that will take the fun of victory (we lynched Jack soon after) and it will be cheating, I want to see if his views have changed from then.

It's on page 38.

 

[Elieson]

Also, @everyone please let me know the consensus opinion on who to shoot before roughly 7:30 pm EST US time. Or give me three choices to choose from if that's safer. I mean, I can play nice if you guys would rather me not shoot at all this time if that means you'll all let me live to win through lynches hopefully. But I'd prefer you all giving me instructions.

I propose shooting among the following 3 (following HD's suggestion of bumping shot orders from 1 to 3, to avoid scum involvement:

Space
Iteru
jackatlasred / CheffOfGames

Admittedly it's 4 but I had a tossup on the latter two because roles. Anyhow, these are the three most inactive people in the game, and the hardest to really get reads on because of it. I'd honestly prefer to see one-or-more of them removed by force before spending half a day casing them for whatever reason only to find out that they're town. Jack!Miller makes sense but it's impossible to really verify and IMO is a fair PoE lynch for later if the need arises. Cheff's BP claim is also legit possible and probably more worthy of a cop check than a bullet but some part of me suspects Cheff as being an ITP of sorts because town Bulletproof is just a super uncommon role, while it's a common modifier for ITP.

These are just my suggestions and for once I'm not confident in one over the other as being probable scum but it'd be super cheesy if the whole damn team was inactives

 

[Zexy]

No, it was that the Town doc exists for Nightkills, and Town also having a BP coukd be because of FA's role.

This is the kind of "could be" that leads nowhere imo. There could be towns with Doc and BP with only mafia having a kill and there also could be towns without doc or BP who could have any amount of different killing factions. This balance assumption doesn't look safe enough.

@Zexy How are you feeling?

A bit better.

I would love to hear your current reads/thougts once you are better.

On everyone at once? Not a good idea during the night phase imo, tomorrow maybe.

what metal/non-metal would be a miller? could a metalloid be one or something? on a similar note, there's gotta be at least one mafia that bussed jdthebud. with how jackatlasred just came in and voted him (after having said nothing else), it makes me suspicious of him.

also why would there be a one-shot anytime cop? considering there was a godfather, there's most likely a regular cop.

This is an Elementar game; expect crazy things in the setup please

Not sure who would be a miller and why, with this theme lots of elements could go different ways. He did claim Miller right off which is a risky move for scum, though.

Because this is an Elementar game, enough said It is quite possible, more possible than LG just making it up.

If jack is to be believed, there are both a Godfather and a Miller in the game. It does admittedly seem like a bit much for there to only be a 1x Anytime Cop. On the other hand, it doesn't exclude the possibility, either. Worth looking into, perhaps.

Yeah I never thought there's only that when it comes to cops this game. It is too little to consider it the main cop role this game, just a nice extra with a niche.

 

[jackatlasred]

jackatlasred thoughts on town using a ITP vig to kill targets? Does it take all the fun of victory out for you?

Nah as long as I win, I mean it's fun when I either am able to try hard or just win.

Also I wish that I could of offered an explanation but in the end I had not time left and I ain't even halfway through the thread. But yeah I'm in class so I'll try tomorrow since today I just get out of class and go straight to work.

 

[DarthWolf]

Also town trackers and watchers might be good to be in FA or her targets. Though it's risky since mafia can watch them if they have a watcher and essentially be exposing themselves.

Wouldn't that be a waste of a watch/track? What info do you get from it?

Spoiler: better now?

Thanks

 

[Sword Master]

Nah as long as I win, I mean it's fun when I either am able to try hard or just win.

I'm sorry I'm really against that, I have ethics that I can't break and I consider this cheating.

Well you've certainly changed your mind

 

[Zexy]

Wouldn't that be a waste of a watch/track? What info do you get from it?

No because it could give us info on whether FA targetted whoever she was asked to, which other people targeted FA or her targets and compare with the actual flips. We may figure out that FA is lying and should be lynched or some scum tried to tamper with the kill.

BTW @Sword Master I don't even get the question, for one if it is part of the game's mechanics it isn't cheating. Why ask jack that question, in what way does it help you read him?

 

[DarthWolf]

On everyone at once? Not a good idea during the night phase imo, tomorrow maybe.

Mostly just general thoughts. Doesn't have to be done this night, do it when you are feeling better and in a better playing state.

@FinalArcadia I'd like you to shoot CheffOfGames. I want to check his claim.

Assuming there is 1 indep in 18 players, how many scum players can we expect in terms of balance?

 

[DarthWolf]

@Zexy if the kill turns out to be different then we know FA is lying. There is no need for a tracker to target FA IMO. I do see now how a watcher targeting FA could help.