Mafia USM Ubers Mafia endgame (Town and Genesect victory)

[Sloonei]

Do you guys over at the syndicate really never ever just... get a feeling? Is that something unique to TWR?

Feelings? None of us have experienced those in years.

But yeah. It's just I at least try to get people to identify the source of their feelings. Like, if you can point to a specific post that gives you a good vibe, that's helpful. If you can then explain why your vibe exists, that's even more helpful. I don't ask these questions because I think you're full of crap and want to catch you in a lie or make you feel pressure. I ask these questions because I'm trying to understand what's going through your mind as you try to solve the game.

I did explain this in my previous post, but their logic is making no sense to me. Less sense even than Magnificent Entertainers does...

Why not? What instances seem illogical to you? What would a more logical suspicion look like?

 

[Calvinッ]

In the world where eeveeis scum Calvin Feels an awful lot like a partner now that I'm caught up

Ok good, more people providing the fire. I think I already know why you think that, and its because I was protective of AussieEevee when Sloonei found them scummy? That's fine if you think like that, I would like to know why you think that I could be partners with AE, when I daresay that I have agreed more with Sloonei in game. I'd just like to get to the bottom of the reasoning on this.

That being said, I just reread it, do you mean if Aussie flips scum, i'd be a shout for being their partner?

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

Can I sub out, @Oricorio? I find myself unable to keep up with all the activity in here.

I'll see what I can do

 

[Ereshkigal]

I claimed for one simple reason: To get information out there and see what results. The rate we were going, we were likely to end up with a No Lynch no matter what and starting the night phase with a lack of information to inform ability usage.

 

[TheCapsFan]

Me too. What’s your read on that behavior?

About 9 pages ago when I posted this comment I thought it was scummier than say, JJJ who was doing similar things, because it felt to me that the questions JJJ was asking were very straight and to the point and yours were not. However after taking a brief look at that other game we were linked to I see the differences, and that’s enough to hold me over for now.

 

[TheCapsFan]

I would support a lynch on Spiritual Mask Salesman. They pushed for that really early lynch, too, which was weird.

 

[TheCapsFan]

Vote’s not happening yet though. Need to go through and ISO before end of day.

 

[DekuNut]

My phone is now an ex-phone.
I'll start reading, but that's gonna massively slow me down in this game.
Guess I can't complain about mobile notifications now, however.

 

[speedchuck]

Why do you all gotta post so much in the middle of the night?

UNVOTE: SLOONEI

I'm super busy this weekend BTW. Playing 3 DND games and meeting up with an old friend. I'm also in another mafia game that is in a more urgent situation. We'll see how my activity goes.

out of left field at a type when suspicion was building on them. It's something that can't really be verified, and strikes me as a potential gambit to shake the pressure. Prior to that, they'd repeatedly said nothing. They've explained this as their usual playstyle. I've said I can accept that, but I can't slap a town read on them while I wait.

Spiritual Mask Salesman - Their entry post into the game was shaky in a number of ways that we've already discussed, and I don't believe any of the points have been satisfactorily addressed. They've preached the importance of a busy Day 1 more than once, but haven't contributed to it.

I used to play on a very casual forum, and the 'out of left field becuz suspicion' claim was not abnormal there. Do you think casual players are capable of a gambit? Do you think they're provided with fake claims? It's not a town clear, but I'd put it down as a good sign on my end.

Agreed on SMS from what I've seen.

 

[speedchuck]

TheCapsFan latched onto sloonei suspicion, and that's his only thought on the game that I see. Not a great look.

Considering a lynch on Max. Not being able to keep up with the thread isn't ALWAYS alignment indicative (especially with a few thread-drivers around), but it CAN be. That's the whole point. Keeping up with the thread is harder if you're making stuff up and trying to be consistent the whole time. Could mean something.
It would also make things easier for Ocorico, not having to find a replacement, and would keep things more active.

I'm aware that a Max lynch is a bit of a cop out on pursuing someone more active, but it's not a bad option as backup at least.

Dale said he'd be right back in an hour and that was like 24 hours ago. I guess he's also having trouble keeping up. But the fact that he hasn't posted excuses makes it not look as bad on him.

 

[DekuNut]

Haven't had a ton of time to start, and gonna be switching through computers, but to compensate doing a full-game read

To start off, I hate to say it, but I am liking J. Jimmy Jameson's play so far. The pushing for "why". The pushing for more reasons on every little thing. Looking for people to trip up. It's the small things, but it starts off the game well in my eyes.
Even if he's just as infuriating as @bulba account sometimes. I can actually see a lot of similarities between their playstyles from my brief knowledge of The Jagged Man.

His point about you stirring up conversation being an attempt to sway conversation away from you when it actually did the opposite, then backtracking with "I'm not judging you". Also discrediting early reads and interactions when they're the foundation of any game. D1 reads being fallible is whack, all reads are fallible and in my recent experience D1 has been a slaughterhouse for scum if played correctly. It's a very awkward time for scum trying to enter the game and kickstart fake reads.

I appreciated Speed's intro and him pushing for it.

I discredited early reads because, as stated earlier, we rarely have good early lynches around these parts. Plus, this is the first game I've had where people have started playing before all the Role PMs were confirmed. I wasn't even putting any thoughts into my posts, or anyone else's yet - and I doubt most of the other Bulba natives were either. I made a big deal about that being Night 0 for a reason - in my eyes, the game doesn't start until Day One.
The point about him swaying conversation turned into the opposite partially because I started commenting on it immediately. Just because I called it an attempt to do so didn't mean it was a succesful attempt.

Here is a recent game in which all of the presently participating Syndicate members played. High volume content is kind of the norm, especially on Day 1, for certain players, JJJ being chief among them. This isn't about drowning the thread or anything. It's about prompting discussion about the game.

It seems that the prompted discussion here has been the merits of making noise on Day 1. That happens sometimes. I'll reiterate again that what is being called "annoying" is just a style of play that might be unfamiliar here. I'll make an effort to not be annoying. In return, I ask that the hosting bulbagardeners do not dismiss us for being different.

Thanks, Sloon. I'll look into that game a little during Night One. Very helpful.

At the top of page 10, but class is about to start and I need to run over there. More later.

 

[Sloonei]

About 9 pages ago when I posted this comment I thought it was scummier than say, JJJ who was doing similar things, because it felt to me that the questions JJJ was asking were very straight and to the point and yours were not. However after taking a brief look at that other game we were linked to I see the differences, and that’s enough to hold me over for now.

I was town in the linked game, unless someone linked another one that I didn’t see.

Why was my earlier behavior suspicious to yoh?

 

[Sloonei]

I claimed for one simple reason: To get information out there and see what results. The rate we were going, we were likely to end up with a No Lynch no matter what and starting the night phase with a lack of information to inform ability usage.

How do you think things have gone since your claim? Did anybody’s reaction to it stand out to you?

 

[bulba account]

Good morning everybody
getting ready for the day

I don't see a point in addressing Calvin yet but is worth looking into if eevee does in fact flip scum

I believe I missed any sms interactions for some reason, do I need to go back and read some of his posts or are we okay

 

[DekuNut]

Down to the last three pages, but I've got so much going on right now that I'm going to get all this off my mind before going into the current stuff.

Sloonei has opened the game in form.

I beg to differ. Very underwhelming questioning so far, he's just flooding the thread with bland questions, nothing sharp yet.

@JaggedJimmyJay I don't think you ended up discussing this post from Nova. Why do you and @novaselinenever think your reads were so different at this point in the game?

This logic baffles me to be honest. I have never seen Mafia bus on Day 1, unless they had a scumbud come under heavy fire, that scumbud started to get voted for the lynch, so they went with along with it. If you come from a Mafia community where bussing scumbuds on Day 1 for the hell of it is normal, wow. It's just not something I've seen in the places I've played Mafia.

Imma just say, this isn't too far out of line for ZD players. While earlygame RVs voting does happen, actual pushes against scumbuds on Day One are rare.

Aussie's early focus was not on the potential motivation or merits of my antics, but on the reception of them within the social sphere of bulbagarden mafia. I appreciate and respect the familiar culture of which I am a visitor right now and don't want to be a rude guest, but if a player makes a fuss about something that is not entirely relevant to figuring out the alignment of players in the game, I'm going to keep an eye on them. This issue was discussed at length and I liked Aussie's responses that followed, but my concern about the initiation of the episode has not gone away. I'll need to see more proactive hunting out of them to form a clearer read.

Why do you see AE as bad from this but not me?
Also yo thanks for the multiquotes

Erishkigal also took part a little (I think) in the culture clash discussion, but when I pressed her (him? I know Ereshkigal is a lady in Sumer) to provide some information on Erishkigal the Mafia Player, they retreated into a shadow of non-entity, and haven't returned since.

That's how Erish do

Pretty much exactly the same here, usually at least. Also coined RVS. So i'd say ZD is much closer to Bulba playstyle than Syndicate. This of course isn't a bad thing. Appreciate the answer.

This is very much true. While there are some differences mechanically, it was a smooth transition climatically from there to here.

@DekuNut what's your read on Spiritual Mask Salesman?

I'll ISO him once I'm done with my readthrough. But I do promise that it's coming.

What is the custom for keeping track of votes here? On the Syndicate we vote in a poll that is always displayed at the top of the page, so no one ever needs to worry about keeping track of votes. Do players ever provide updated tallies themselves?

Question is intended more for my fellow players, but if the host doesn’t mind answering that’s groovy too.

The biggest issue with polls I've found is that sometimes it's hard for people to know who exactly voted for who, and it also allows for tampering by those not playing the game.

Policy on ereshkigal (sp?) For wanting no lynch

We can't just policy kill Eresh every game

Kinda like your spam was a few pages ago.

I don't like this post either. While I'd call it spam, it wasn't useless spam. It was many posts, but at least they had points. There is a distinct line to draw between unhelpfulness and the actions of the Syndicate members.

If it's lazy town, then you're enabling an ineffective town. If it's not lazy town, then you're letting mafia walk over you for an easy win. Either way, giving people a pass for not contributing is unhelpful.

And that is why we lynch townies who play anti-town

 

[DekuNut]

Real quick
Found SMS's thoughts on no lynches from a game on ZD last year. Worth nothing that he was mafia, which means discussion before vote because of differences between townplay and scumplay.
Game Thread - Fallout: New Vegas Mafia
@Spiritual Mask Salesman why have your thoughts changed from that time?

 

[Sloonei]

Why do you see AE as bad from this but not me?

Because you've done other things as well. You stated your beefs with the rapid fire playstyle of us noisy folks in the beginning, but that did not prevent you from also engaging the thread in other ways. AE seemed to be focus solely on that one issue, and has subsequently struggle to articulate reads.

I understand, though, that most folks around here aren't accustomed to pulling reads out of seemingly minor Day 1 interactions, so these struggles are understandable to a degree. What I need to determine is whether I think players (like AE, for instance) are resisting because they're afraid to say too much (bad) or because they're simply unfamiliar/not comfortable with the approach (not bad).

 

[Snowy]

AE seemed to be focus solely on that one issue, and has subsequently struggle to articulate reads.

You're acting like it is day 3 or 4 and there is a lot to base reads on. We have nothing right now, short of Bulba's weirdness, Eresh's no lynch (bad), and your spamming, and a gut feeling on Calvin.

And yes, I am awake at 3am... I am freezing cold but I can't get to sleep... so you're going to have to deal with me.

 

[Sloonei]

You're acting like it is day 3 or 4 and there is a lot to base reads on. We have nothing right now, short of Bulba's weirdness, Eresh's no lynch (bad), and your spamming, and a gut feeling on Calvin.

And yes, I am awake at 3am... I am freezing cold but I can't get to sleep... so you're going to have to deal with me.

You keep saying this, but I don't agree with it, and I also find that this attitude discourages discussion. There is plenty of content on which to base discussions. We have to be willing to talk about things though. My concern about you is that you've hidden behind this refrain at every turn. I get that I'm bringing some unfamiliar tactics into the game, but among the things that I look for is players who don't seem interested in advancing the discussion in the thread.

DekuNut criticized you for categorizing my early posts as "useless spam". What do you have to say to that?

 

[Snowy]

I'm sorry @Oricorio but I just don't understand this playstyle and I will need to sub out. Sorry.