Pokemon Journeys: Thoughts So Far

[jbmasta]

They could visit Oak’s Lab and see all the reserve Pokemon Ash has there. Maybe Goh starts feeling a bit awkward, at least it provides continuity for Ash’s teams.

 

[Kurolegacy]

They could visit Oak’s Lab and see all the reserve Pokemon Ash has there. Maybe Goh starts feeling a bit awkward, at least it provides continuity for Ash’s teams.

They had the perfect opportunity back in episode where Pikachu ran away considering that they stayed overnight in Pallet. Hell Pallet is apparently a couple hour ride by vehicle so they could go any time. But of course this series isn’t really about continuity, just the illusion of it with nostalgia baiting by occasionally throwing us a reference.

 

[jbmasta]

They had the perfect opportunity back in episode where Pikachu ran away considering that they stayed overnight in Pallet. Hell Pallet is apparently a couple hour ride by vehicle so they could go any time. But of course this series isn’t really about continuity, just the illusion of it with nostalgia baiting by occasionally throwing us a reference.

As the PWC tournament and Goh To Catch Them All arcs lack the structure of the gym, contests and to a certain degree island challenge campaigns continuity and nostalgia is something the writers have plenty of room for. Fifty something episodes in and we’re still waiting to see when the return of the second and third previous companion/rival guest stars will be. Bring back a previous arc or character of the day character, maybe go to Hoenn or Sinnoh and see a contest or just see a region professor as that would tie into Goh’s researcher aspirations.
Tracey would be an ideal contact for Goh as he’s been Oak’s assistant for what must be at least twenty years in terms of episode broadcast, and as a go between for Oak and Cerise that gives him a chance to do more than the show has afforded him in his total screentime thus far. He’s used his Pokemon to help him locate and observe other Pokemon in the wild, that could help Goh in terms of captures. I bet Tracey would go wild to sketch and study some of the Pokemon Ash and Goh have that live at the Institute.

Speaking of Tracey, the Orange Islands. Ash has Dragonite and Gengar, both on Drake’s team at the time Ash challenged him at the conclusion of the Orange League. That’s got to be worth something in terms of episode content. The anime has well over twenty years of history, the writers and animators can do better than pointless filler and generic locations in a series that’s capable of visiting all known regions thus far. In the sandstorm episode there’s no way to tell by sight that it’s set in Mauville City!

 

[Enzo]

This series also has another problem I don't really see a lot of people discussing: It has such a weird rhythm. Like, there's moments where it seems like they just hit the 1000X speed button and rush through a character's devolopment (Goh, Lucario, Ash speedrunning through over 400 positions, Farfetch'd) as fast as humanly possible, then they just slow down at a snail's pace and put up a bunch of filler/boring episodes, and the characters they speedrunned with just get forgoten, like Ash's team. It seems like they don't know if they want the series to be a fast paced, battle/development heavy series like Sinnoh, or a ''no big plot just vibes'' one like Johto and Alola.

I still stand by the fact that the fact the writers are not allowed to just sit down and write the series in one go, cuz of the toyetic nature of the anime, is a HUGE problem. Ever since day one. A lot of inconsistencies and problem this series as whole has would be fixed if the writers weren't forced to stay on their toes 24/7 cuz they don't know what/when they have to add/discard something, or if they are allowed to let something happen, like Ash losing at the league in Sinnoh and XY.

 

[Hidden Mew]

This series also has another problem I don't really see a lot of people discussing: It has such a weird rhythm. Like, there's moments where it seems like they just hit the 1000X speed button and rush through a character's devolopment (Goh, Lucario, Ash speedrunning through over 400 positions, Farfetch'd) as fast as humanly possible, then they just slow down at a snail's pace and put up a bunch of filler/boring episodes, and the characters they speedrunned with just get forgoten, like Ash's team. It seems like they don't know if they want the series to be a fast paced, battle/development heavy series like Sinnoh, or a ''no big plot just vibes'' one like Johto and Alola.

The fast pace is quite possibly the main root cause of a lot of problems in Journeys. It doesn't just affect the character development or the characters goals, but also just the main gimmick where they're seemingly not allowed to spend more than one episode in most regions. Kanto and to a degree Galar are the only exceptions, which is a huge problem in itself. It's hard to make the other regions feel anything more than generic backgrounds if they aren't willing to spend more time in different locations or take advantage of different iconic locations from the games. It's also probably why they didn't want to spend more time building up to the Darkest Day plot before adapting it. If they were more willing to actually do arcs in different regions or even just have Ash and Goh spend more than a couple of episodes in different regions going on different adventures, that might do wonders for the pacing problem and in turn help to improve some of it other issues. Having Ash and Goh go back to their homebase by the end of most episodes really doesn't make sense to me.

I still stand by the fact that the fact the writers are not allowed to just sit down and write the series in one go, cuz of the toyetic nature of the anime, is a HUGE problem. Ever since day one. A lot of inconsistencies and problem this series as whole has would be fixed if the writers weren't forced to stay on their toes 24/7 cuz they don't know what/when they have to add/discard something, or if they are allowed to let something happen, like Ash losing at the league in Sinnoh and XY.

To be fair, the writers having to stay on their toes about what to change with the storyline is typical of every toyetic series. This doesn't mean that the storyline can't still be well written though. Even though they seemingly had to make Ash lose the Sinnoh League, DP's storyline was still pretty solid where they had a lot of payoff for plots that they spent years establishing during its run. I know what you mean about how having to change something more marketing shake could still affect their original plans, but I don't think that would necessarily mean that they can't make the storyline compelling or well thought out.

 

[Enzo]

To be fair, the writers having to stay on their toes about what to change with the storyline is typical of every toyetic series. This doesn't mean that the storyline can't still be well written though. Even though they seemingly had to make Ash lose the Sinnoh League, DP's storyline was still pretty solid where they had a lot of payoff for plots that they spent years establishing during its run. I know what you mean about how having to change something more marketing shake could still affect their original plans, but I don't think that would necessarily mean that they can't make the storyline compelling or well thought out.

I never said they couldn't. I know they can have an amazing storyline in this situation. DP is here to prove it. But the fact that the higher ups constantly tells them what they can and cannot due while the series is still in progress, and especially that they can't just write everything in one go and stay with the og plans is bad. Like, really bad. Even DP suffered with that.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I never said they couldn't. I know they can have an amazing storyline in this situation. DP is here to prove it. But the fact that the higher ups constantly tells them what they can and cannot due while the series is still in progress, and especially that they can't just write everything in one go and stay with the og plans is bad. Like, really bad. Even DP suffered with that.

While that can definitely affect their plans for a storyline, I'm also not really sure how typical it is for shows to have everything planned from the get go and not have to change things down the road or add in new ideas that weren't considered earlier. I might be thinking more of live action series than animated ones in this case, but I don't think that most long running series have everything planned out from the start either.

 

[Enzo]

While that can definitely affect their plans for a storyline, I'm also not really sure how typical it is for shows to have everything planned from the get go and not have to change things down the road or add in new ideas that weren't considered earlier. I might be thinking more of live action series than animated ones in this case, but I don't think that most long running series have everything planned out from the start either.

They might not have evrything planned, like 100% of the show planned from the get go. But they know the beggining, middle and ending of the series. While the writers just found out Ash was gonna win Alola in the last year of a 3 years-ish series. And how things went with Tobias, Cameron and Alain, it seems that they don't know the ending of their own series before the higher ups gives them the rundown. Like, Steven Universe, Star Vs The Forces of Evil, Gravity Falls and so many other animated series knew their endings a LONG time before they even wrote down the first line of their pilots. But Pokemon is not allowed to.

 

[Ricbolog]

As the PWC tournament and Goh To Catch Them All arcs lack the structure of the gym, contests and to a certain degree island challenge campaigns continuity and nostalgia is something the writers have plenty of room for. Fifty something episodes in and we’re still waiting to see when the return of the second and third previous companion/rival guest stars will be. Bring back a previous arc or character of the day character, maybe go to Hoenn or Sinnoh and see a contest or just see a region professor as that would tie into Goh’s researcher aspirations.
Tracey would be an ideal contact for Goh as he’s been Oak’s assistant for what must be at least twenty years in terms of episode broadcast, and as a go between for Oak and Cerise that gives him a chance to do more than the show has afforded him in his total screentime thus far. He’s used his Pokemon to help him locate and observe other Pokemon in the wild, that could help Goh in terms of captures. I bet Tracey would go wild to sketch and study some of the Pokemon Ash and Goh have that live at the Institute.

Speaking of Tracey, the Orange Islands. Ash has Dragonite and Gengar, both on Drake’s team at the time Ash challenged him at the conclusion of the Orange League. That’s got to be worth something in terms of episode content. The anime has well over twenty years of history, the writers and animators can do better than pointless filler and generic locations in a series that’s capable of visiting all known regions thus far. In the sandstorm episode there’s no way to tell by sight that it’s set in Mauville City!

I would really appreciate a mini-arc where Tracey temporarily joins the main group and assists them in their researchs.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

The problem isn’t Goh, it’s Ash.

 

[Kurolegacy]

The problem isn’t Goh, it’s Ash.

Care to elaborate?

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

Care to elaborate?

As the main character of the show for almost 25 years, Ash is a shell of his former self and has been since SM began, but Journeys manages to sideline his character even more. Ash is participating in PWC battles, most of which are one on one. Plus, Lucario got so much more screentime compared to the others. There wasn’t a PWC battle in twelve episodes, which is a lot. Ash’s character is stale because it doesn’t feel like he is the main focus anymore since him and Goh are dual protagonists. The show is so episodic and because it doesn’t have a plot, that comes back to bite it. It feels like the anime doesn’t care about Ash anymore, and I don’t even know what the heck Pokémon is going to do with him when the series is over. I’ve heard people saying that this is Ash’s last series but I doubt that’s going to happen. If it does he’ll probably just be replaced with Goh. With Ash’s returning companions, we’ll see how that goes with Gary and Iris but considering how they smushed the Alola one into one episode and had Korrina return but having it be crammed into one episode as well and NO MENTION OF XY, it’s not looking good. There are some of Ash’s Pokémon dying to be used and he hasn’t used them at all, I’m talking about Incineroar, Torterra, Greninja...

This Pokémon series is also more focused on kids, which I don’t like. We want to see Ash grow and progress, and he is not doing that here. It’s painfully obvious that Gens 1-6 Ash is a different character from Gens 7-8 Ash, so much that I will say that they exist in different universes. In one universe is an iteration of the Ash we all know and love from the end of XY, and the other one is the Ash that keeps the Gens 1-6 information but is a different Ash and is the one we see in Journeys. Picture it like an overlapping timeline so to speak. It really tells us that Ash’s journey as a main character was better off ending at XY. It would be a perfect time for him to win the League, marry Serena and have their kid be the next protagonist with a timeskip. It would have been a satisfactory ending for many and Ash and Pikachu can still be on the show, plus as the franchise was at its 20th anniversary, this would have added even more fuel to the fire as it would have the main protagonist growing up with the original target audience in the 90s, and let a new generation step in. But they didn’t do that, and it looks like that implicates a disastrous result.

 

[Hidden Mew]

This Pokémon series is also more focused on kids, which I don’t like. We want to see Ash grow and progress, and he is not doing that here. It’s painfully obvious that Gens 1-6 Ash is a different character from Gens 7-8 Ash, so much that I will say that they exist in different universes. In one universe is an iteration of the Ash we all know and love from the end of XY, and the other one is the Ash that keeps the Gens 1-6 information but is a different Ash and is the one we see in Journeys. Picture it like an overlapping timeline so to speak. It really tells us that Ash’s journey as a main character was better off ending at XY. It would be a perfect time for him to win the League, marry Serena and have their kid be the next protagonist with a timeskip. It would have been a satisfactory ending for many and Ash and Pikachu can still be on the show, plus as the franchise was at its 20th anniversary, this would have added even more fuel to the fire as it would have the main protagonist growing up with the original target audience in the 90s, and let a new generation step in. But they didn’t do that, and it looks like that implicates a disastrous result.

The Pokemon anime has always been more focused on kids. I can understand wanting the show to grow and change with its audience, but Pokemon has never been interested in doing that. If they were, they would have replaced Ash ages ago. Regardless about how you feel about Ash in SM and Journeys, they all still take place in the same continuity as the earlier series. I can understand wishing that Ash could have won the Kalos League instead, but marrying Serena, having a kid with her during a time skip and then make their kid the new protagonist really wouldn't have worked. It would have been jarring for Ash to be ten years old for nearly twenty years at that point and then suddenly age him into a father out of nowhere. Plus, Ash being the main lead hasn't prevented a new generation from getting attached to Ash. The anime has always been designed to attract a new target audience every few years.

 

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

Also, I feel like it's a tad selfish to want a kids' show to stop appealing to its demographic in favor of trying to please the adults. Kids deserve to have things made for them. The attitude of "this show that was never made for me should be completely retooled to appeal to me instead" is one of my biggest beefs with the MLP fanbase and one of the biggest reasons I kept my interactions with bronies at a bare minimum and watched the show in a purely casual fashion... at least until it actually started to pander exclusively to bronies to the point that its quality dropped like a hot potato and I stopped watching it entirely. Like, what MLP was doing before was fine. Not great or anything, but fine. When it started to try to appeal to its adult audience it became an absolute edgy mess.

TL;DR sometimes it's fine for shows to stick to what they know.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Honestly, I feel like the fandom reaction to a lot of things that happen in Journeys are making the whole series even less enjoyable. Like there are still plenty of things about Journeys I'm not personally thrilled with, but I feel like going online to see reaction after an episode is starting to get worse than anything Journeys itself is actually doing.

It kind of reminds me of the initial XY run, where a lot of fans were adamant that Serena was the "best female companion of all time" and if you dared to disagree or critique her, you were wrong, or a hater, or "not a real fan." I don't hate Serena by any stretch of the imagination, but she certainly isn't my favorite female companion, she had her fair share of issues as a character, and just seeing that every single week was so predictable and exhausting. Now it feels the same exact way with Goh, but with "worst companion of all time" instead. And again, similar to Serena, I wouldn't necessarily say I love Goh, but a vast majority of the vitriol that's thrown his way is pretty insane and highly exaggerated.

It's totally fine if you're not a big fan of Goh. It's totally fine to criticize the way Goh has been handled. It's more so when, week after week, you have to read constant complaints about Goh being "abusive" or "a thief" or trying to "cancel" him over and over again that I really feel it just sucks a lot of the fun out of actually watching the show, even with its faults.

That’s one of the reasons I stopped posting on the forums after a while. While I have lots of criticisms for some part of how Gou's being handled, the needless exaggerations about his character and the borderline trolling which goes on around some parts of the internet discredits the actual issues which are somewhat milder, and anyone who remotely speaks against Gou is generalised as a "Gou hater". I just wish the exaggeration’s didn’t happen to such a degree that it became so easy to make a generalised category of haters.

I feel unwelcome these days to share my opinions and thoughts since I’ll just be lumped in with those people who make needless exaggerations. I’m tired of reading that there’s something wrong with people who hate Gou or they have a personal agenda. How can someone have a personal agenda against a fictional character? I’ve lost all desire to share my opinions on this matter due to this.

 

[jbmasta]

Goh isn’t a bad character, but prone to being mishandled and at points borders on Mary Sue. The first main character to get a legendary in a pokeball, then keep one in a pokeball for example. It’s also the first time Ash hasn’t received any starter from the contemporary region, all three with Goh, which for some is massively controversial. You can probably count on one hand the number of captures he’s actually had to work for and not just bung an empty ball at whatever species catches his eye.

There is promise, such as the Pokemon researcher angle that’s introduced in Darkest Day arc and it’s a new aspiration for one of Ash’s friends. While Gary became a researcher this was after he retired as a trainer, which was to conclude the rivalry between himself and Ash and announced after he made the shift in career. Goh becoming a researcher also opens up potential departure circumstances, something the anime hasn’t always succeeded with for companions.

 

[SlyGecko]

In all honesty, Goh would work best in a spin off anime where he has to travel the world from Kanto to alola catching Pokemon and looking for Mew while Ash has his Galar journey in the main series.

 

[Kurolegacy]

In all honesty, Goh would work best in a spin off anime where he has to travel the world from Kanto to alola catching Pokemon and looking for Mew while Ash has his Galar journey in the main series.

Agreed. Given the way that they handle his captures and development, I think that he and Journeys style as a whole would work better in a Pokémon Chronicles style anthology series where every episode is just a one-off story in a different location.

 

[GrookeyFan77]

Ash should have caught Grookey tbh. It is the starter that least fits Goh and most fits Ash.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Goh isn’t a bad character, but prone to being mishandled and at points borders on Mary Sue. The first main character to get a legendary in a pokeball, then keep one in a pokeball for example. It’s also the first time Ash hasn’t received any starter from the contemporary region, all three with Goh, which for some is massively controversial. You can probably count on one hand the number of captures he’s actually had to work for and not just bung an empty ball at whatever species catches his eye.

I feel like people focus too much on having a Legendary Pokemon in a Pokeball when it isn't impossible to do that even in the games. Plus, it does kind of downplay that Suicune was seriously weakened to the point where it could be captured to begin with.

In all honesty, Goh would work best in a spin off anime where he has to travel the world from Kanto to alola catching Pokemon and looking for Mew while Ash has his Galar journey in the main series.

I'm less sure about that when the friendship between Ash and Goh is one of the reasons I think he is so likeable and Ash has had a clear influence on Goh to the point where I don't know what he'd do on his own. Not to mention I still don't think that he could carry a series on his own as the main character. Given how much people dislike his catching method and his character in general, I don't know if Goh would really be better received if he was in a spin-off series, especially if everything about him was somehow the same as it is currently in Journeys. I do wish that Ash could have had a more traditional journey through Galar though.