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[Death Meta Apres Midi]

Even if he didn't say it directly, of course there would be information with a flip. Don't think that part needed to be explicitly said

I've been suspicious on Frozen Fennec, but thinking on it, Grammation's subtle sort-of claim is weird to me. Given there's likely 1 mafia on the Max bandwagon & he was wary of Fennec's claim but wasn't as against it as one would think if their roles are that similar, I'm starting to wonder. At least Fennec came out and said they were miller directly -- Grammation brought up the similarity, as if wanting to start some doubt.

Vote: Grammation

Seems like a low longevity plan without much upside. I don't think this is good

 

[Space]

Seems like a low longevity plan without much upside. I don't think this is good

Okay, you got anything?

I don't get how Grammation not really claiming but saying his role is similar to Frozen Fennec, and says he finds that suspicious but won't directly do anything, isn't vote worthy.

 

[Grande Homme]

Did HD ever explain the Grammaton indy lean, I know he said it was because of the claim but that was way before it.

 

[Grammaton]

What exactly are you expecting me to do, in that scenario, given that Im already voting another player?

 

[Grammaton]

Even if he didn't say it directly, of course there would be information with a flip. Don't think that part needed to be explicitly said

I've been suspicious on Frozen Fennec, but thinking on it, Grammation's subtle sort-of claim is weird to me. Given there's likely 1 mafia on the Max bandwagon & he was wary of Fennec's claim but wasn't as against it as one would think if their roles are that similar, I'm starting to wonder. At least Fennec came out and said they were miller directly -- Grammation brought up the similarity, as if wanting to start some doubt.

Vote: Grammation

What is the 1st bolded based on?

What role do you think it could be?

You're right that I wanted to start some doubt, is that an exclusively scum trait? If I intend to lynch this player as town, surely its in my interest to weaken any and all resistance?

Looking at the 2nd bolded, you ascribe Fennec claiming and me not claiming as good for them and bad for me - How does that work in you mind?

 

[Space]

What exactly are you expecting me to do, in that scenario, given that Im already voting another player?

What do you mean exactly

What is the 1st bolded based on?

What role do you think it could be?

You're right that I wanted to start some doubt, is that an exclusively scum trait? If I intend to lynch this player as town, surely its in my interest to weaken any and all resistance?

Looking at the 2nd bolded, you ascribe Fennec claiming and me not claiming as good for them and bad for me - How does that work in you mind?

Not based on anything, it's just very likely there was 1 mafia on the bandwagon since it was an easy no pressure vote for them to blend in with.

I have no idea what the role could be, that's part of why I'm wary

It's not exclusively scummy, it's just the way you went about it by mentioning your role was similar, but you didn't directly call out Frozen Fennec. So either you think they're lying or you believe your role and theirs can coexist, but you don't give an exact indication of either. In fact, you leaned more toward Frozen Fennec lying, since you were suspicious of them.

It's only good for Fennec because they claimed Miller directly and did it first. Typically miller claims early Day 1 -- I don't like how Fennec did it, but they still did. You don't claim miller but something vague/similar and did it after.

 

[HumanDawn]

Did HD ever explain the Grammaton indy lean, I know he said it was because of the claim but that was way before it.

I think somebody else said that. Maybe you mean Fennec or Chevy?

 

[HumanDawn]

@Death Meta Apres Midi Could you tell me more about Jeff’s meta?

 

[Jeff Peak Passenger]

The players that Feenie seemed to have been hardest on were Lone_Garurumon in particular and Chevy later on, IIRC. Might also be worth noting that Feenie wasn't on either of the two main wagons of D1; it may have been a kill to avoid drawing suspicion to one of those wagons if not a kill to silence her suspecting someone in particular.

Anyway, I'm waiting to see more from Jeff to see if he's actually going to give content like he said he would back on late D1 but I'm also kinda leaning toward voting Chevywolf but need to actually go read back through their posts in light of flips we've got now and articulate a case. Once I finish work and exercise a bit I'll be back.

@Jeff Peak Passenger
We're still waiting on your thoughts, but I'd also like to ask why you were willing to potentially claim late D1, but didn't move your vote to Max's wagon to help ensure your own safety. Why did you leave a vote on Grande Homme for the entire phase? If you were that concerned for your own safety, it feels disingenous to not have voted to try to save yourself.

I saw votes on me and was wondering what the vote count was, once I saw it I didn't think I would get lynched with the time remaining so didn't see a need to claim and started reading back. I wanted to see why Max was being voted before putting my vote on them but in the end I didn't need to because they were lynched anyway. not sure what point you're trying to make here, what do you think me being disengenous about wanting to survive says about my alignment?

 

[Jeff Peak Passenger]

Townleaning FA, gonna tentatively townlean Grande Homme, indep lean on Max. Kinda unsure on HD.

Yep, I fell off the face of the earth and forgot about this game. My vote on you is still from RVS

UNVOTE

I find it odd that Max claimed Indep so early, and I think I'm liking Jinjo. I found it odd that Grande came in tooting his MVP horn from last game, but I decided to ignore it as NAI, but I'll have to look at his stuff now that people are looking into him.

this seems a bit contradictory to me. you're town leaning on Grande Homme, but then want to look at him because others are looking into him? the reasoning you give for what you find odd about him happened before you town leaned him so why did you town lean him in the first place?

 

[FinalArcadia]

You're right that I wanted to start some doubt, is that an exclusively scum trait? If I intend to lynch this player as town, surely its in my interest to weaken any and all resistance?

What made you want Frozen Fennec lynched that strongly that you would have wanted to put a stop to any resistance to the lynch? It feels more mafia motivated to want to nip any resistance to a lynch in the bud rather than to seek dialogue or answers from the player being voted. Plus, you didn't even vote for Fennec, if I remember correctly. It makes your soft claim weird because you've provided no reason to really believe that it may conflict with Fennec's without more info and it must not conflict that much if you didn't vote them in D1 and are continuing not to vote them here in D2.

I saw votes on me and was wondering what the vote count was, once I saw it I didn't think I would get lynched with the time remaining so didn't see a need to claim and started reading back. I wanted to see why Max was being voted before putting my vote on them but in the end I didn't need to because they were lynched anyway. not sure what point you're trying to make here, what do you think me being disengenous about wanting to survive says about my alignment?

Both town and mafia obviously want to survive so it's not clear-cut, but often mafia tries to avoid getting tied to any certain flips since role flips pile up and can be what helps town track suspicious voting patterns. Keeping the vote on Grande Homme - who was in no danger of being lynched and was just a leftover vote from the beginning of the phase - accomplishes that, but that's a fair point about wanting to go back and check why Max was even being voted in the first place. And I suppose you could also make the case that mafia may just as easily have jumped to Max to blend in; in that light, the lack of a vote is NAI.

 

[HumanDawn]

this seems a bit contradictory to me. you're town leaning on Grande Homme, but then want to look at him because others are looking into him? the reasoning you give for what you find odd about him happened before you town leaned him so why did you town lean him in the first place?

To add on that, Chevy claimed that he forgot N1 in-thread chat is allowed here, when there were already posts during N1, unless he just didn’t bother to check out the flip on Max1996?

 

[Jeff Peak Passenger]

for town I like HumanDawn because he doesn't seem to care about how he looks in the way he's voting and FinalAcardia seems town to me too, more of a gut feeling but the way they're posting seems like they're genuinely trying to solve stuff. GrandeHomme is probably town too off the Max flip.

Chevy and Jinjo as scum leans, and I haven't liked Frozen Fennec either but I don't know if that's because he's an inexperinced player. he said he's been miller before so I'm going to look for that and see if he was told he needs to claim immediately.

Vote Chevy

 

[Jinjo]

I do have some scum leans now that I have come back and read the thread more. I do not like how Chevy still has their rvs vote on me and I often find scum leave their rvs vote on a player during the end of day 1 which is sus. Same thing said about Jeff since all he did is put an rvs vote and he never came back.

Having seeing Fennec's miller claim I am also suspecting mafia could be voting her since a miller claim is also an easy vote for mafia to make and this is why I am suspecting there is scum somewere in Lone and Space. I am also wary of Max since his independent claim was confusing and it reminded me of a role from town of salem. Having to think more on that, ZinnLav hosted a game and an independent came out about a winning with a town player and when the town player died it became an sk and I'm worried Max could be a role similar to that. I'm still not sure on HD alignment and I'm also not sure on Feenie.

I still stand by this I wrote on day 1 and it made me think I called out a scum player. An indie claim is the kind of lynch both mafia and town would do and this is why it's hard to tell which of the player on an indie wagon is scum.

 

[Grammaton]

What made you want Frozen Fennec lynched that strongly that you would have wanted to put a stop to any resistance to the lynch? It feels more mafia motivated to want to nip any resistance to a lynch in the bud rather than to seek dialogue or answers from the player being voted. Plus, you didn't even vote for Fennec, if I remember correctly. It makes your soft claim weird because you've provided no reason to really believe that it may conflict with Fennec's without more info and it must not conflict that much if you didn't vote them in D1 and are continuing not to vote them here in D2.


Both town and mafia obviously want to survive so it's not clear-cut, but often mafia tries to avoid getting tied to any certain flips since role flips pile up and can be what helps town track suspicious voting patterns. Keeping the vote on Grande Homme - who was in no danger of being lynched and was just a leftover vote from the beginning of the phase - accomplishes that, but that's a fair point about wanting to go back and check why Max was even being voted in the first place. And I suppose you could also make the case that mafia may just as easily have jumped to Max to blend in; in that light, the lack of a vote is NAI.

You appear to be accusing me of both strongly wanting a lynch and not strongly wanting a lynch? My words were that I have reason to doubt the miller claim. im pretty sure ive already said my role can interfere other roles - and its not an uncommon role. Its plausible that both roles can co-exist, but it feels unlikely in a game this small.

That said, Ive no idea about any of you guys hosting conventions or standards, so it seems voting entirely on that basis wouldnt be very smart. Dont worry, ill vote when im ready to and not before

 

[Jeff Peak Passenger]

Will keep that in mind for future games where I am given the Miller role.

It's not but I was trying to figure out if there might be a role similar to miller. Not really sure why Grammation having a similar role would still have you wanting to vote for me.

Just seems that way, granted this is probably my 4th or 5th mafia game I've played I think? The first game I played from what I recall I was the miller.

I have a feeling it could be either Tikal or Chao in general, I want to say potentially Chaos Chao since one DID exist in Sonic Adventure. I don't think it would have to be a chao with any specific name, just chao in general since Chaos is very protective of them once things start to go south in the lore leading up to Sonic Adventure.

Omochao DOES appear in Sonic Adventure 1. No voice lines and they simply show what direction chao need to go during races.

Ah, sorry about that, ended up needing to head out at the time before I could get to responding to you on that yesterday. When they initially posted, I thought they might be mafia but with their posting style, they come across as very heavily townleaning which is where my town read on them came from.

Going to try going back through the thread later today when I have time and see if any of the people who voted on Max might be scum in my opinion (sans myself since I cannot read myself obviously.) Here's hoping I do not get killed off during the night phase.

either I’m blind or you were never miller in any of your previous 3 games on here.

 

[Jinjo]

for town I like HumanDawn because he doesn't seem to care about how he looks in the way he's voting and FinalAcardia seems town to me too, more of a gut feeling but the way they're posting seems like they're genuinely trying to solve stuff. GrandeHomme is probably town too off the Max flip.

Chevy and Jinjo as scum leans, and I haven't liked Frozen Fennec either but I don't know if that's because he's an inexperinced player. he said he's been miller before so I'm going to look for that and see if he was told he needs to claim immediately.

Vote Chevy

Interesting how my take from day 1 on two players you mentioned here were different from yours since I said on day 1 I didn't like the naked votes and when I saw the miller claim I suspected there would be scum voting a miller claim since a miller claim is an easy vote for scum to make from what I remember.

 

[Grande Homme]

Looks like we might have a live one

 

[FinalArcadia]

VOTE: Chevywolf30

The MVP thing is still so strange to me and I don't know 100% how to take it, but Jeff pointed out a very good contradiction in Chevy's read on Grande Homme, and it does come across as if it was something added later just to contribute to the Max wagon (or to justify voting there), especially when Chevy never really elaborated on what GH would've been covering up (especially with literally his first post in the game). And if there is mafia on the Max wagon (probability-wise, likely), Chevy's vote is also the one that feels the most tacked on for sure.

I still stand by this I wrote on day 1 and it made me think I called out a scum player. An indie claim is the kind of lynch both mafia and town would do and this is why it's hard to tell which of the player on an indie wagon is scum.

Are you referring to Chevywolf being the scum player here? If you stand by this, why not vote them, then?

You appear to be accusing me of both strongly wanting a lynch and not strongly wanting a lynch? My words were that I have reason to doubt the miller claim. im pretty sure ive already said my role can interfere other roles - and its not an uncommon role. Its plausible that both roles can co-exist, but it feels unlikely in a game this small.

It was this part recently that made me think you were saying you wanted a lynch on Frozen Fennec:

If I intend to lynch this player as town, surely its in my interest to weaken any and all resistance?

I didn't remember the clarification on your role about it interfering; if you had mentioned it before, my bad on that one. I feel like miller very well could fit at least two characters flavor-wise so I'd be surprised if there wasn't one (especially since they're pretty common here in general) so I think that helps Fennec, though it sounds like your roles aren't exactly direct counterclaims so I don't know if either flipping really resolves the other.

On a related note, does anyone know Frozen Fennec's scum meta? Like, would it be a likely action for Fennec to fakeclaim miller D1? Seems too bold - especially as they are very clearly knowledgeable about SA/SA2 and would know the chance of a legit miller existing being high - and if Grammaton's role isn't actually a CC, then it is an unCC'd miller.

 

[Chevywolf30]

Y'all really gonna lynch the doctor?

this seems a bit contradictory to me. you're town leaning on Grande Homme, but then want to look at him because others are looking into him? the reasoning you give for what you find odd about him happened before you town leaned him so why did you town lean him in the first place?

I townleaned him based on the whole thing with Max and the indep role that depended on Grande's living/dying. The post where I said the thing about him talking about being MVP last game, I said that it had seemed odd to me when I first read it, but it was page one of the game, so he was probably just saying hi or something. I didn't read into it. I shouldn't have even brought it up.