Mafia Sonic Adventure Mafia - Endgame - Mafia and Unlyncher Victory, Long Live the Eggman Empire!

[Death Meta Apres Midi]

So wait, you can become pretty convinced that I am Mafia with Max based on in-thread information you can analyze that you would treat me as such, but I can't think somebody is not Mafia that I don't treat them as such based on the same tools?



The context is different but you still applied meta. So far, my meta on Max1996 (which wasn't just one person's, compared to yours) which you didn't trust has been completely right because Max1996 was proven to be genuine (his only fault is not knowing he would become a Serial Killer), while you said Jeff will be more active later, yet he has only posted while under heat (minus the 1st post), said he would catch up, questioned one post out of all the posts in the game, and has been Missing In Action again this phase - all stuff you don't criticize but instead decide to criticize me over me acting like I was sure Max1996 would flip Independent after I have been posting the entire Day Phase that I thought it was more likely he was telling the truth than not. You don't need to trust me, but you can base your opinion on a player through their lack of posts as well.

Lol I'm kind of feeling this is going nowhere and it's just a matter of us backing ourselves over people they don't know or trust. I do stand by the fact I think that pre flip post was suspect and i think you can see why but I digress I think the first point you made above is fair and in my case is just me backing me own reads and being wary of yours as I'm sure you can understand. I still feel good about your early posts and the flip has made me feel better about you too given that you clearly weren't scum with Max who I thought you were trying to protect with your push on Jeff.

 

[Lone_Garurumon]

Max claim reminds me of the role guardian angel from town of salem. The guardian angel's wincon is to keep their target alive and their target can be either town or mafia and if the guardian angel's target dies then they will become a survivor.

Skeptical of Max based on the claim. Fair enough, Max said something would happen if Homme died and Jinjo was reminded of a bad situation from a previous game.

The way how he votes is scummy and it always worries me that it comes from scum since that's an easy way for scum to just place their vote on someone with no reasoning. I have also misread him a couple of times from that and he turns out being town in the end.

Definitely understand this one. HD can be tough to read for me, too, so yeah.

I recently woke up and it seems like the thread is active when I'm sleeping or at work.



You were the player who was being sus for me so far and I asked the players what were their thoughts on you since I haven't been liking your naked votes.



I do have some scum leans now that I have come back and read the thread more. I do not like how Chevy still has their rvs vote on me and I often find scum leave their rvs vote on a player during the end of day 1 which is sus. Same thing said about Jeff since all he did is put an rvs vote and he never came back.

Having seeing Fennec's miller claim I am also suspecting mafia could be voting her since a miller claim is also an easy vote for mafia to make and this is why I am suspecting there is scum somewere in Lone and Space. I am also wary of Max since his independent claim was confusing and it reminded me of a role from town of salem. Having to think more on that, ZinnLav hosted a game and an independent came out about a winning with a town player and when the town player died it became an sk and I'm worried Max could be a role similar to that. I'm still not sure on HD alignment and I'm also not sure on Feenie.

These are the list of players who did not leave an impression on me.

Chevy
Jeff
Lone
Space

Branches out and takes a look at other players that I don't think were overly suspected at this point in the game. Coming up with their own thoughts. Good.

You claimed an independent and yet you are voting for pressure only. You haven't really said much except for saying you are an independent. Are there any players you have been suspecting so far or are you just following majority?

Tunnels in on Max a little bit, but I feel like their concerns were reasonable.

Overall Jinjo tunneled in on Max a bit, but did spread out a bit and do some decent reading on other players. Not a ton of content, but what is there is pretty decent. And I'm told Jinjo generally tends to pick up after D1. So yeah I'm actually feeling pretty good about Jinjo.

 

[Lone_Garurumon]

This is a very interesting statement by the way.

Jeff did not claim Independent like Max and was uncounterclaimed, and barely posted, yet you are sure there would be no informative value when there was a chance he could be Mafia. If Jeff flipped Mafia, then a lot of information would be gained! Even if he flipped Town, you could still gain information from the players who tried to lynch him, or were against his lynch. This is not even taking into account that a player who is voted still gives information even if they aren't successfully lynched, because later down the line, if Jeff is Mafia, then the Max1996 lynch would be seen in the context that it could have been trying to save a scum partner. That's what voting players you have less information on can help on, because even if they barely post, you can study other player's reactions to the votes on them. Data is beautiful!

What did Jeff post throughout Day 1 to make you confident enough that he would be Town and that even a lynch on him would bring no informative value?

He posted absolutely no information during D1 to make me think anything about him. Like, he made almost literally no content relevant to anything aside from one comment on Jinjo right near the end. That's why I didn't think there'd be anything useful we could analyse from the lynch.

I don't even think you can really get much about the voters even if he did flip, outside of asking "Who would possibly want to lynch a person who's done literally nothing and it's only D1?". Since the only question you could ask of "Who would want to lynch him?" is the exact same question I'm asking now because it doesn't make any sense to go after somebody who's done nothing this early in the game. Like, even your example of Max defending him being incriminating later has massive plausible deniability of "How was I supposed to know he was Scum when I defended? He didn't do anything to form a read from!"

I just really don't see useful information coming out of it that isn't filled with holes because nobody could have known anything from what was in the thread.

 

[HumanDawn]

He posted absolutely no information during D1 to make me think anything about him. Like, he made almost literally no content relevant to anything aside from one comment on Jinjo right near the end. That's why I didn't think there'd be anything useful we could analyse from the lynch.

I don't even think you can really get much about the voters even if he did flip, outside of asking "Who would possibly want to lynch a person who's done literally nothing and it's only D1?". Since the only question you could ask of "Who would want to lynch him?" is the exact same question I'm asking now because it doesn't make any sense to go after somebody who's done nothing this early in the game. Like, even your example of Max defending him being incriminating later has massive plausible deniability of "How was I supposed to know he was Scum when I defended? He didn't do anything to form a read from!"

I just really don't see useful information coming out of it that isn't filled with holes because nobody could have known anything from what was in the thread.

You didn't think anything about him, but it was enough to ascertain that his lynch would bring no information when you admit you can't even tell if he will flip Mafia or Town?

All the statements you made are normal defences anyone can make about any situation... The change in environment means that scum will have to adapt, and from failing to adapt you might be able to gain enough confidence to think they are worthy of lynching compared to Town players who are more natural.

You could say that the lynch could bring in less information than other players, but saying it brings no informational value is dead wrong because you ultimately shouldn't know what he will flip or what even will happen from votes on him that could help affect the game.

 

[Frozen Fennec]

Nothing wrong with claiming miller, but it's typically something one does immediately.

Will keep that in mind for future games where I am given the Miller role.

I might be misunderstanding, but you're acting like your role is more complex than miller.

Grammation claiming his role is similar to Fennec is definitely making me keep my vote.

It's not but I was trying to figure out if there might be a role similar to miller. Not really sure why Grammation having a similar role would still have you wanting to vote for me.

why would have a similar role to yours make them independent? also have you played in a game with a miller before?

Just seems that way, granted this is probably my 4th or 5th mafia game I've played I think? The first game I played from what I recall I was the miller.

Tikal is like a legit character important to the lore of SA1 that is connected to Chaos, but the part in the role PM about

sounds like Grande Homme is a Chao? The only real named Chao in the games are Cheese and Chocola, but they didn't exist until Sonic Advance 2 and Sonic Heroes respectively, which released years later.

For that reason, Grande Homme may be a role that represents the Chao as a whole given their prominence in the Adventure games, like maybe a group of a neutral, hero, and dark Chao or something? It's either that, or Tikal, I think.

I have a feeling it could be either Tikal or Chao in general, I want to say potentially Chaos Chao since one DID exist in Sonic Adventure. I don't think it would have to be a chao with any specific name, just chao in general since Chaos is very protective of them once things start to go south in the lore leading up to Sonic Adventure.

Actually wait... Omochao???

Omochao wasn't in Adventure 1, but being that it was a named character, it may be considered "kin" to Chaos regardless, even if Omochao is a robot? I don't know, it's a possibility.

Omochao DOES appear in Sonic Adventure 1. No voice lines and they simply show what direction chao need to go during races.

@Frozen Fennec

I know I asked you why you Town read Jinjo but I don’t recall getting a reply about that.

Ah, sorry about that, ended up needing to head out at the time before I could get to responding to you on that yesterday. When they initially posted, I thought they might be mafia but with their posting style, they come across as very heavily townleaning which is where my town read on them came from.

Going to try going back through the thread later today when I have time and see if any of the people who voted on Max might be scum in my opinion (sans myself since I cannot read myself obviously.) Here's hoping I do not get killed off during the night phase.

 

[Chevywolf30]

The reason I was so focused on Max was because I knew he was probably a threat to Town winning. Now that he's gone, I feel pretty confident that Grande is probably town, based on him saying he didn't know anything about Max.

Seemingly opposed to a Space lynch. Which makes me wonder about his read on Space

I wasn't opposed to a Space lynch, I just found it odd that they were going so hard after Space so early.

Interestingly townreads Grande, but then considers this to be a possibility.

His other posts consist of him finally putting a vote on Max and questioning Jinjo's pressure vote. So, yeah, I don't feel great about what's here.

I did throw out the possibility of a Max/Grande scumteam, based on Max wanting to defend Grande, but now that we've seen Max's role PM, I feel town from Grande

 

[Feenie]

@Chevywolf30 Thoughts on other players, though? Who are you townleaning and who are you scumleaning?

 

[Chevywolf30]

@Chevywolf30 Thoughts on other players, though? Who are you townleaning and who are you scumleaning?

I'll have to read the game later. I focused too hard on Max in the first day, and I forgot at first that night talk is allowed on this site.

 

[Space]

You didn't think anything about him, but it was enough to ascertain that his lynch would bring no information when you admit you can't even tell if he will flip Mafia or Town?

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive - Garurumon not having an opinion on Jeff, but Jeff didn't post much relevant, so a lynch wouldn't give as much information as one might like regardless of the flip.

It's not but I was trying to figure out if there might be a role similar to miller. Not really sure why Grammation having a similar role would still have you wanting to vote for me.

because why would there be two roles similar to miller?

 

[HumanDawn]

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive - Garurumon not having an opinion on Jeff, but Jeff didn't post much relevant, so a lynch wouldn't give as much information as one might like regardless of the flip.

There’s a nuanced difference between saying there is no information to be gained and little information.
—-

Gun to my head in case I am nightkilled tonight - Space, Chevy, and maybe a third scum could be Jeff or Lone_Garurumon. Obviously no concise proof, could be completely wrong but thats where my gut is

 

[Rainbow Cloud]

Actions locked, update pending!

 

[Feenie]

Gun to my head in case I am nightkilled tonight - Space, Chevy, and maybe a third scum could be Jeff or Lone_Garurumon. Obviously no concise proof, could be completely wrong but thats where my gut is

Yeah, agreed with those (leaning more towards LG than Jeff, though).

 

[HumanDawn]

Fun fact! One of the songs in Sonic Riders is mimicked in Xenoblade X!


View: https://youtu.be/MTPuWZ_z4p8



View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TfcMBojGdfM

 

[Rainbow Cloud]

Players:
2. @Frozen Fennec
3. @Lone_Garurumon
4. @HumanDawn
5. @Space
6. @Feenie
7. @FinalArcadia
8. @Jinjo
9. @Chevywolf30
10. @Death Meta Apres Midi
11. @Jeff Peak Passenger
12. @Grammaton
13. @Grande Homme

Spectators:
@dawn dusk

MoD:
@Snowy

Feenie was killed, they were:

Spoiler: Role PM

<redacted>

It is now Day 2, the clocks move an hour forward here tonight so this phase will be an hour shorter as a result and will end at 8:00PM BST on Monday 29th March!

Countdown Timer

 

[HumanDawn]

Oh goodie! A janitor! Which means that Mafia gets one free fakeclaim! Yay... Hopefully it’s not a Cop or Doctor... Should probably go over Feenie’s posts to see why she would be killed from who she suspected. She mostly agreed with my reads but that was after the night actions were locked so there is no way that post had anything to do with her being the target.

 

[Feenie]

Well damn, I didn't see that coming! Good luck, guys!

 

[FinalArcadia]

The players that Feenie seemed to have been hardest on were Lone_Garurumon in particular and Chevy later on, IIRC. Might also be worth noting that Feenie wasn't on either of the two main wagons of D1; it may have been a kill to avoid drawing suspicion to one of those wagons if not a kill to silence her suspecting someone in particular.

Anyway, I'm waiting to see more from Jeff to see if he's actually going to give content like he said he would back on late D1 but I'm also kinda leaning toward voting Chevywolf but need to actually go read back through their posts in light of flips we've got now and articulate a case. Once I finish work and exercise a bit I'll be back.

@Jeff Peak Passenger
We're still waiting on your thoughts, but I'd also like to ask why you were willing to potentially claim late D1, but didn't move your vote to Max's wagon to help ensure your own safety. Why did you leave a vote on Grande Homme for the entire phase? If you were that concerned for your own safety, it feels disingenous to not have voted to try to save yourself.

 

[FinalArcadia]

Hmm, okay, I lied, I'm not exercising quite yet lol because I went to go skim the thread real quick, but I might be wrong about Chevywolf.

Looking through the posts again, would mafia really have even brought up the weird theory about Grande Homme calling himself reigning MVP being a cover-up if they knew that Max wasn't scum? Mafia would know that Max was either legitimately independent or possibly town and bluffing about indep, and thus have to assume that his connection to Grande Homme was legitimate. I don't know if maf!Chevywolf would contribute to the Max lynch and mention suspicions on GH and that he may be a potential scum team with Max knowing that it's just going to be almost certainly disproven once the lynch goes through.

Yeah, mafia could do that just to play mindgames, but the "cover-up" thing with Grande Homme feels kinda genuine, kinda reminds me of the tinfoil theories I sometimes think of and try to ignore knowing it's probably just my paranoia lol. The only way this really makes sense to me is if Grande Homme and Chevy were mafia together, and I really, REALLY doubt GH is mafia given Max's role.

 

[HumanDawn]

Hmm, okay, I lied, I'm not exercising quite yet lol because I went to go skim the thread real quick, but I might be wrong about Chevywolf.

Looking through the posts again, would mafia really have even brought up the weird theory about Grande Homme calling himself reigning MVP being a cover-up if they knew that Max wasn't scum? Mafia would know that Max was either legitimately independent or possibly town and bluffing about indep, and thus have to assume that his connection to Grande Homme was legitimate. I don't know if maf!Chevywolf would contribute to the Max lynch and mention suspicions on GH and that he may be a potential scum team with Max knowing that it's just going to be almost certainly disproven once the lynch goes through.

Yeah, mafia could do that just to play mindgames, but the "cover-up" thing with Grande Homme feels kinda genuine, kinda reminds me of the tinfoil theories I sometimes think of and try to ignore knowing it's probably just my paranoia lol. The only way this really makes sense to me is if Grande Homme and Chevy were mafia together, and I really, REALLY doubt GH is mafia given Max's role.

I think you’re looking too much into it. Could just be made up to give a new reason to lynch Max1996 to not look like they are just joining a wagon and justify the vote.

 

[Space]

There’s a nuanced difference between saying there is no information to be gained and little information.

Even if he didn't say it directly, of course there would be information with a flip. Don't think that part needed to be explicitly said

I've been suspicious on Frozen Fennec, but thinking on it, Grammation's subtle sort-of claim is weird to me. Given there's likely 1 mafia on the Max bandwagon & he was wary of Fennec's claim but wasn't as against it as one would think if their roles are that similar, I'm starting to wonder. At least Fennec came out and said they were miller directly -- Grammation brought up the similarity, as if wanting to start some doubt.

Vote: Grammation