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Mafia Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Mafia - Endgame (Looking Stupid Joker!)

Reader mode
Reiji said:
I feel no matter what was said when addressing Kai's vote, I'm going to look OMGUS in some way, right? It's not just the fact they targeted ME because I'm an easy target, I would've still sussed even if they targeted you for the same thing. I think it's a weak reasoning, especially then saying the two 0-posters were potentially a scum team, to vote for someone when at the point in the game they came in I feel there was a lot more they could've looked at. This was something also mentioned by players at the time and still mentioned now, so like the SM business does that make them equally bad?
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I'm going to concede on this one and the SM read. I do admit its pretty hard not to have a scumread not look OMGUSy when the main reasons they're scummy have to do with a vote on you, even if actual reasoning you give has nothing to do with who the target of the vote is. I went back and checked, you only actually mentioned that the vote on you once, which I think is probably a bit of a point in favor of you telling the truth that your vote had nothing to do with the target of Kai's vote, just that it was a lame vote.

As for it making Kai look equally bad, I still don't think voting a nonposter is really AI. The "nonposters scumteam" wasn't really something that stood out to me when I was reading, like at all, but with it being pointed out, I went back and took a look at it... Yeaaah, not great. I'm going to need to think about it more to decide exactly how not great I think it is, but definitely not a great thing.

As for the SM read, I think we have a different understand of what constitutes "content".

Unvote: Reiji
 
leetic! said:
A lot of this is just active = town, inactive = scum, with the possible exception of Reiji
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My scumread on Soulmaster isn't for inactivity; I specifically said that it's because of the lack of reads and the very strange singling out of one player only to not even take a stance on them. It feels manufactured, and every other player has at least made clear at least one or two of their strong reads, whether those are town or mafia.

In fact, the only one read that I would concede is legitimately built in large part on activity is mine on you, because the level of activity is so high that I don't see mafia actively trying to keep the game moving like that.

It may not be the specific way that you would make a reads list, but a lot of my reads are built in my gut rather than my brain and sometimes articulating why I have those reads beyond "feels town" leads to what you saw, and regardless I brought up reasons for most players (neopest was the one I struggled to do that for, I really don't have much to say because none of their posts have given me much of a town or mafia concern).
neopest said:
I'm here and reading but I'm quite distracted so my thoughts might not be as expanded on as they could be, but for Kai and FA in particular I've felt like they've lacked a certain kind of conviction behind their reads, but even more notable is the fact that I feel out of all the players in the games they have engaged in the "drama" the least and have had the least amount of commentary on it.
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Yeah, I'm not a big fan of going back and forth with people or inserting myself into it, so I actually get where you're coming from on the first part. The Dawning/Leetic drama though is a central part of my DawningWinds read, and I've given my thoughts on leetic/Caps recently. leetic/Human I don't have much of an opinion on, as I still don't really get what that was even about.
 
Reiji said:
Looking at Caps... oof. Unfortuantely the discussion between him and leetic/HD just seems to mostly be playing up to confirmation bias and that makes it a bit harder to read him. As its continued since I last looked I'll need to put Caps in the scumlean pile because I'm unsure why the lack of co-operation is needed tbh.
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Can you go into more evaluation on this point?

Reiji said:
Would like to not see leetic posting every other post, I actually feel it's a little bit of a hindrance because people are responding so much to what you say rather than other stuff
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If you don't like it, you should step up the activity yourself
 
FinalArcadia said:
It may not be the specific way that you would make a reads list, but a lot of my reads are built in my gut rather than my brain and sometimes articulating why I have those reads beyond "feels town" leads to what you saw
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One way to get a sense of a game is seeing which players have similar thoughts as you. Are there any you strongly agree or disagree with?
 
Trustfalls!

CF - Has at least had a good number of posts, has tried to interact with most people
DW - Some similar thoughts as me, did show more defiance to me than would be expected of a wolf, generally is keeping up with the thread more than I would expect of typical Bulbagarden scum
FA - A couple of posts that are to her town meta, at least has been responsive to my concerns without being overly aggressive
HD - Generally has been playing in a way that indicates that he is not concerned with what I think of him, has put in more effort than most, I actually like his response to FA
KV - Reactions to other people at least feel natural
NP - The player I have the most mindmelds with, has been playing completely differently to her scum play last game.
RJ - OP is a decent amount of effort for earlygame, some thoughts are similar to my own
SM - Him saying he was going to be inactive was a little shameless, scum might be more careful about how they present such things
 
neopest said:
I have reason to believe that there is a potential scum laying low. The reasoning behind this is that at times the thread has been quite volatile with arguments going back and forth for sometimes multiple posts/pages about the same topic but they seem largely confined between two people with others chiming in but not really committing to reads on these particular issues. To me that suggests that there is a very, very good possibility that scum is hanging back and letting us implode and that a lot of these arguments could be T/T.
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You mind explaining what lead you to this conclusion? I feel like wolves a lot of the times like to manipulate these things so they can have more of a control over the flow of conversation... granted, a lot of wolves do lie low, too, so I guess this just me asking why you think it's more wolves try to lie low over wolves trying to control what happens?

Also I've noticed a handful of people have suggested that an HD/Caps scumteam. Is this just because there's not really reason to not suspect them together or is there a clear connection people are drawing that someone could explain?
 
DawningWinds said:
Also I've noticed a handful of people have suggested that an HD/Caps scumteam. Is this just because there's not really reason to not suspect them together or is there a clear connection people are drawing that someone could explain?
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If I confbias Caps as scum, I could see a world where their interactions are trying to distance from each other in a threadstate that is uncomfortable for scum. The main argument against that, of course, is that HD and Caps are the two largest posters after me, although much of their interactions came from before that point.
 
leetic! said:
Can you go into more evaluation on this point?


If you don't like it, you should step up the activity yourself
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I cannot simply wish up activity my friend. I'd advise you stop getting so haughty, just because I cannot be here 24/7 like you. I've already said I was busy, I'm not going to prioritise a Mafia game over my life. You are going to have to deal with that I'm afraid.

Now onto your other question - right now I'm mostly seeing Caps being intentionally antagonistic towards you when you're firstly trying to get reads/info out of him and generally seems like an odd reaction to your pressure. I've noticed Caps even posted after your points made in 227/229/230 which is unnatural for him, normally that's addressed by him when it can be. Most of his other behaviours right now however I've seen as all alignments, so that's where it's been hard to read.

I think the eye-opener will be in the conversation between you, him and HD however, so I'm currently reading through again to try and unravel that. I'll come back with any findings.

DawningWinds said:
I'm going to concede on this one and the SM read. I do admit its pretty hard not to have a scumread not look OMGUSy when the main reasons they're scummy have to do with a vote on you, even if actual reasoning you give has nothing to do with who the target of the vote is. I went back and checked, you only actually mentioned that the vote on you once, which I think is probably a bit of a point in favor of you telling the truth that your vote had nothing to do with the target of Kai's vote, just that it was a lame vote.

As for it making Kai look equally bad, I still don't think voting a nonposter is really AI. The "nonposters scumteam" wasn't really something that stood out to me when I was reading, like at all, but with it being pointed out, I went back and took a look at it... Yeaaah, not great. I'm going to need to think about it more to decide exactly how not great I think it is, but definitely not a great thing.

As for the SM read, I think we have a different understand of what constitutes "content".

Unvote: Reiji
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Thank you and I'm glad that we've come to a somewhat understanding. Fair is fair regarding SM, I guess we'll see how that plays out for us, because it definitely seems like SM isn't going to show up!
 
Reiji said:
I cannot simply wish up activity my friend. I'd advise you stop getting so haughty, just because I cannot be here 24/7 like you. I've already said I was busy, I'm not going to prioritise a Mafia game over my life. You are going to have to deal with that I'm afraid.
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I don't expect you to be here 24/7, but I do expect you to engage with other people in real time when you are here
 
DawningWinds said:
You mind explaining what lead you to this conclusion? I feel like wolves a lot of the times like to manipulate these things so they can have more of a control over the flow of conversation... granted, a lot of wolves do lie low, too, so I guess this just me asking why you think it's more wolves try to lie low over wolves trying to control what happens?

Also I've noticed a handful of people have suggested that an HD/Caps scumteam. Is this just because there's not really reason to not suspect them together or is there a clear connection people are drawing that someone could explain?
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I actually think it's way more common for wolves to lie low in these situations than to intercept. If they were to intercept it usually also involves some kind of TMI defense on one or both of the players (if they both so happen to be town) but really every single interception I've seen in this game so far has lead to people scum reading others even more. If you think about it, it makes sense too. A wolf has no real reason to intervene in order to make people look even worse, but a wolf struggling with TMI or who is feeling pocket-y might feel the need to defend a town in these sorts of situations.

As for the second half it has more to do with how HD and Caps interacted in that it seemed unnatural from both sides. HD pushed Caps but in an extremely lazy way that could potentially be TMI-ish if Caps were to flip wolf. Caps on the other hand had an overwhelming reaction to HD's suspicions on him compared to other players.
 
^ Meant to say underwhelming instead of overwhelming but you get the gist.
 
leetic! said:
One way to get a sense of a game is seeing which players have similar thoughts as you. Are there any you strongly agree or disagree with?
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Haven't gotten any nice mindmelding moment in this game so far, but of everyone, Reiji is who I think I agree with overall the most, particularly when it comes to scumreads. That definitely played a part in why I feel fairly confident in town!Reiji despite less post than some others in the game, and I can't really think of any section from their posts that I really questioned with a flat "what" while reading it.

neopest is the closest to strong disagreement. I don't agree with her subtle casting of doubt on myself obviously, I don't really see HD/Caps as a more likely scumteam than anything else at this point (the two have a similar rapport in a lot of games regardless of their alignments IMO), and some of the things that she's mentioned as potential signs scum leaning back I actually think could even apply to their self.
 
FinalArcadia said:
Haven't gotten any nice mindmelding moment in this game so far, but of everyone, Reiji is who I think I agree with overall the most, particularly when it comes to scumreads. That definitely played a part in why I feel fairly confident in town!Reiji despite less post than some others in the game, and I can't really think of any section from their posts that I really questioned with a flat "what" while reading it.

neopest is the closest to strong disagreement. I don't agree with her subtle casting of doubt on myself obviously, I don't really see HD/Caps as a more likely scumteam than anything else at this point (the two have a similar rapport in a lot of games regardless of their alignments IMO), and some of the things that she's mentioned as potential signs scum leaning back I actually think could even apply to their self.
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Interesting because RJ and NP do have a fair amount of similarites, the only two players they seem to significantly disagree on are me and you oddly enough. I feel her point about scum being more likely to lay low is fair from someone who is from a community where a very high level of activity is common, scum laying low was definitely happening in our last game together. I would like if you could follow up on your last sentence though.
 
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