Preview JN135: Pokémon! I'm Glad I Got to Meet You!!

[Kurolegacy]

The thing is , can he really lose to them either, even if there champion rank. Think about it, the moment Ash beats Leon, he became the strongest trainer. Now that someone from paldea beat him, that person just beat the strongest trainer in the world. You see how unbalanced Ash being the strongest is?

And can we really have a show where ahs never loses at all? You might say "they didn't go through the M8" but that doesn't really matter does it? If somehow Ash beat Leon Charizard in the first battle they had, do you think fans would be like "oh he beat the undefeatable Charizard and the strongest trainer in the world, but who cares because it wasn't the M8", no people would treat it as a big ass accomplishment regardless

That logic doesn’t work at all. That’s like saying that if a coach who won the World Series then went on to coach High School Baseball and another team beat his than that team are now better than the World Series champions. Ash might be able to bring out his Pokémon’s true potential and bring them up to strength in time, but that doesn’t mean that any new Pokémon that he gets is champion tier right off the bat. This isn’t like other champions where they use the same team at all times. Ash typically starts fresh each time.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I also think that the idea that Ash can never be allowed to lose again if he does defeat Leon sounds incredibly boring to me. I know that fans didn't like how he kept losing every League prior to SM, but turning Ash into this undefeatable protagonist instead just sounds more unappealing to me. At least losing would help to keep his battles fresh and potentially allow for him to work with his Pokemon more in order to make a believable comeback in a rematch. Ash barely losing in the PWC, to the point that I think his last defeat was against Rinto before he got into the Great Class just so that they didn't have Ash lose his current ranking, is probably a reason why it felt less challenging and difficult than a world wide Pokemon tournament should.

 

[Islander Princess]

Add me to the list of people who doesn't think Ash's story is "complete" even if he wins the PWC. If he beats Leon, yes it's an incredible accomplishment, but at the end of the day, it's not like he becomes the new champion of Galar. He's a tournament winner. Not even winning the Alola League, and becoming the champion of that region (which was directly mentioned in Journeys too) didn't stop Ash from continuing on. I think there's a bit too much weight of importance being put on the PWC. Like I said, it's a great accomplishment for Ash, but hardly the be all end all of him as a trainer. After all, there's a reason they leave the definition of Pokémon Master so obscure.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

After all, there's a reason they leave the definition of Pokémon Master so obscure.

Looking back at it, in the original series, many people in the anime used that term, but now, in later series, its vagueness is highlighted in-universe by characters like young Kukui and Goh. It's like the anime is poking fun at its early days.

 

[Peppermint Phoenix]

Okay but what is Ash's story missing at this point? All his rough edges have been ironed out, his character was made more childish for those who didn't think he was fun enough in DP or XY, as far as I'm concerned his original character arc has been over for a decade if not two. Any unfinished business with Pidgeot, Ho-oh, his dad, Ritchie or whoever he may or may not have the writers don't care about. What are OLM willing to add that would be satisfying? Personally don't think I can be satisfied but if production issues are forcing them to quit it is what it is.

If it is just the end of the current series without setting up the next one I wonder what could prompt both Ash and Goh to leave the lab at the same time.

 

[kantoskies]

He didn't really "develop" from DP to BW and BW to XY or XY to SM. His personality was changed to make the group dynamics the writers wanted.

This is what I've been saying, ever since Diamond & Pearl ended the production team has made Satoshi fit whatever role they wanted him to fill for each series. It doesn't matter how consistent it was with the previous series- they can use him however they want. There's no reason to replace him when he is so loosely-defined; the only difference a new protagonist would bring other than a visual change is there wouldn't be 25 years of continuity to use for nostalgia. Sure, his "story" has been kind of all-over-the-place at this point (the progression from Kanto > Orange > Johto > AG > DP was decent but after that it stopped), but I think that just means the writers don't really care to give him a long-running story. They've shown they don't need to in order to make a successful show. At this point, replacing him would be pointless. The way I see it, either the anime continues with him as a main character, or it ends.

I used to be more in the "the show could be ending" camp, and while I don't entirely rule it out (it has to end sooner or later, right?) I think the biggest thing that has convinced me otherwise is that we would absolutely know about the show ending years in advance. There's no way an anime that has run for 25 years to incredible international success would just quietly end with little to no build-up. We probably would have heard something back in 2019, maybe 2020.

This series, at least on paper, is how I'd have liked Satoshi's last adventure to go- going on a globe-trotting adventure, competing in something more than just another gym quest, revisiting old locations, reuniting with old beloved characters and seeing what they've been up to, tying up loose ends from older series, all culminating in a master-class battle with old friends watching. Sure, in execution it's kind of fallen on its face, but part of me is disappointed since I feel like this idea won't be used again (or if it is it won't be as novel the second time around) and would have been a perfect send-off for the character.

My strongest belief is the uniqueness of this series, combined with the symbolism that comes with it being the 25th anniversary (quotes like "everything Satoshi and Pikachu have been working towards culminates here!!" or whatever), plus the obvious behind-the-scenes production issues is why so many people are starting to believe this series will be the last.

 

[Peppermint Phoenix]

plus the obvious behind-the-scenes production issues is why so many people are starting to believe this series will be the last.

That's what I'VE been saying. It could the last series BECAUSE of those issues.

 

[Hidden Mew]

That's what I'VE been saying. It could the last series BECAUSE of those issues.

I highly doubt that the production problems, as bad as they seem to be, would force them to end the anime, especially so abruptly. A series having four clip show episodes within a relatively short span of time is a huge red flag for behind the scenes problems, but that would mostly be due to having a lot of battle heavy multi-part episodes back to back and the non-Ash Master Class battles not being part of their initial plan for the arc. Combined that with OLM losing employees and that is a recipe for production issues. Despite relying on clip shows and breaks during the Master Class tournament, I just don't think it's bad enough to where they forced to end the anime, especially when I'm sure that they've had production problems plenty of times over the course of the anime.

Besides all that, I still think that we would have known about Journeys being the last series well before now. Even if the production issues were bad enough to make them do that, there's no way that they'd wait until a little over a month before announcing the end of the series. After going on for twenty five years and being part of a huge franchise like Pokemon, they would have hyped Journeys up as the grand finale to the anime way before now. I'm not sure if they would announced it years in advance, but definitely by the time the Master Class started at the latest. It would be such an easy way to attract more attention to the anime and get both new and old fans excited for the PWC.

 

[Weddingbells]

That logic doesn’t work at all. That’s like saying that if a coach who won the World Series then went on to coach High School Baseball and another team beat his than that team are now better than the World Series champions. Ash might be able to bring out his Pokémon’s true potential and bring them up to strength in time, but that doesn’t mean that any new Pokémon that he gets is champion tier right off the bat. This isn’t like other champions where they use the same team at all times. Ash typically starts fresh each time.

Yeah looking back at it, my logic was faulty lol. This is more of an issue with pikachu than his new mons. And let's be honest, this was the case for his JN mons. Remember the iris battle, and the fish? That was his first battle. And yeah you could say iris didn't know anything about that Mon, but nah that is still jarring as all hell. And his JN mons feats rising all the way to Leon is still unbelievable

I also think that the idea that Ash can never be allowed to lose again if he does defeat Leon sounds incredibly boring to me. I know that fans didn't like how he kept losing every League prior to SM, but turning Ash into this undefeatable protagonist instead just sounds more unappealing to me. At least losing would help to keep his battles fresh and potentially allow for him to work with his Pokemon more in order to make a believable comeback in a rematch. Ash barely losing in the PWC, to the point that I think his last defeat was against Rinto before he got into the Great Class just so that they didn't have Ash lose his current ranking, is probably a reason why it felt less challenging and difficult than a world wide Pokemon tournament should.

I'm not saying he shouldn't lose, I'm saying him losing can cause alot of issues for the story at large. I'm saying that's one of the reasons Ash should be replaced. But ignore my last post, the logic was iffy I admit lol

 

[Weddingbells]

Add me to the list of people who doesn't think Ash's story is "complete" even if he wins the PWC. If he beats Leon, yes it's an incredible accomplishment, but at the end of the day, it's not like he becomes the new champion of Galar. He's a tournament winner. Not even winning the Alola League, and becoming the champion of that region (which was directly mentioned in Journeys too) didn't stop Ash from continuing on. I think there's a bit too much weight of importance being put on the PWC. Like I said, it's a great accomplishment for Ash, but hardly the be all end all of him as a trainer. After all, there's a reason they leave the definition of Pokémon Master so obscure.

I think the issue is that the stakes feel like they have to be high each series. Like sure in paldea he wants to beat greeta, but is that as high as literally being the strongest trainer in the world?

Also as someone previously said, Ash arc basically ended XY. (I agree they made him more childish in current series, but that's beside the point). In the JN has he actually developed internally? He got stronger but he is legit the same person he was from the start to the end of JN. The only arc they tried to do was the Bea depression arc, but that was laughably out of place after 25 years of this guy. Sure maybe they can find stakes higher than Leon, idk. But since XY, I feel Ash has been completely stagnant

Heck even the writers admitted they make Ash act a certain way because it's become harder and harder to develop him after 25 years of experience as a trainer. Like the writers themselves know how big of an issue this is

 

[Weddingbells]

I'm afraid I don't agree with this. Context matters most and unless it was an official PWC match, Ash losing a random battle doesn't suddenly make the opponent the #1 ranked in the world - especially if Ash isn't even using his PWC team but a fresh one to climb the Paldean League. This would be analogous to someone like Bobby Fischer, one of the greatest chess players of all time, still lost matches every now and again. I would argue that the anime retaining Leon's status as undefeated whilst elevating him to the world's greatest has undermined people's belief that Ash can ever lose again after doing so well in the PWC - especially if he does defeat Leon.

Not really. The whole point of Leon is that he isn't just the strongest. But undefeatable for so many years. Bobby Fischer , don't know much about him, but I'm pretty sure he never said "I will never lose a single chess match ever"

So yes, Ash beating Leon Charizard in that match would definitely make Leon not undefeatable anymore and that would be a huge ass deal. I'm pretty sure the undefeatable title wasñt just for the pwc solely. They call him that because of battles he had outside of the pwc.

 

[Peppermint Phoenix]

I highly doubt that the production problems, as bad as they seem to be, would force them to end the anime, especially so abruptly. A series having four clip show episodes within a relatively short span of time is a huge red flag for behind the scenes problems, but that would mostly be due to having a lot of battle heavy multi-part episodes back to back

Yu-Gi-Oh Vrains had that exact same red flag, ended abruptly and nearly every duel in its run took multiple episodes. Last season was like 18 episodes when the first two were fifty. If studio Gallop is replaceable so is OLM. Maybe the new studio could keep the old protagonist and continuity though. We're see though. I could be wrong and if the PWC ends with Leon as the victor I'll change my tune.

Anyways assuming it just the end of JN. How does everyone think he's leaving the lab?

 

[Hidden Mew]

I'm not saying he shouldn't lose, I'm saying him losing can cause alot of issues for the story at large. I'm saying that's one of the reasons Ash should be replaced. But ignore my last post, the logic was iffy I admit lol

I think that's still a bit of an issue if you believe Ash losing can cause significant issues. Pulling another Trip kind of rival would be bad regardless of the PWC since it was bad back in BW, but having Ash lose to believably strong trainers shouldn't be an issue or necessarily undo his accomplishments. People were fine with him losing to Bea and I don't recall people having problems with him losing to Rinto either.

Yu-Gi-Oh Vrains had that exact same red flag, ended abruptly and nearly every duel in its run took multiple episodes. Last season was like 18 episodes when the first two were fifty. If studio Gallop is replaceable so is OLM. Maybe the new studio could keep the old protagonist and continuity though. We're see though. I could be wrong and if the PWC ends with Leon as the victor I'll change my tune.

I don't think that's an accurate comparison in large part because Vrains had production problems right from the start. It had a clip show about thirteen episodes into its run and there were a total for four recap episodes during its first season. It even got to a point where they were recapping what was shown in previous recap episodes. I think that there were seven or eight recap episodes during its total run. Journeys' production problems weren't so clear right off the gate by comparison and arguably weren't as bad when they did become more apparent. The last season of Vrains was significantly shorter than the first two and that did surprise fans, but I'd argue that given where the story was going and how most of the characters were handled, the ending wasn't abrupt. There was no where else they could have gone after Ai became the final antagonist. No other antagonist would have the same impact on Yusaku that Ai did and most of the cast was just canon fodder by that point, so they wouldn't have gotten much to do either against any bigger threat either. Journeys ending with this episode would also not be abrupt for similar reasons. After they wrap up the PWC and Project Mew, there isn't really much left for the series to do story-wise.

I also wouldn't put multi-part duels on the same level as multi-part battle heavy episodes. Multi-part episode duels are practically standard for the Yu-Gi-Oh! franchise, especially by the time Vrains started, and they wouldn't require as much animation compared to Pokemon battles. That isn't to say that they don't have any animation, but animating monsters that are mostly standing still outside of being summoned or attacking each other isn't quite the same as animating Pokemon that are constantly moving around the battle field whether it's dodging or using their attacks. Plus, knowing that the non-Ash battles weren't initially planned to be shown could have easily caused them more problems.

It feels like a huge leap to say that there could be a new studio working on the anime. It isn't impossible, but it feels like a stretch to use Studio Gallop as an example. We don't know why they decided to change studios after Vrains and besides that, using a different situation from a different franchise to claim that OLM can be replaced just feels too huge of a leap for me.

Anyways assuming it just the end of JN. How does everyone think he's leaving the lab?

My guess is that he'll hear about the Paldea League full of Champion ranked trainers and want to go challenge it. Finding out that there are other powerful trainers that weren't in he PWC and have Pokemon that he's never seen before would easily get Ash's attention.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Here's something I'm not seeing many people discuss; isn't is strange that Scarlet & Violet are a week away and Journeys is still airing with no word on another season?

Gold/Silver Japanese Release Date: November 21, 1999
"Don't Touch That 'dile" Japanese Air Date: October 14, 1999

Ruby/Sapphire Japanese Release Date: November 21, 2002
"Get the Show on the Road!" Japanese Air Date: November 21, 2002

Diamond/Pearl Japanese Release Date: September 28, 2006
"Following A Maiden's Voyage!" Japanese Air Date: September 28, 2006

Black/White Japanese Release Date: September 18, 2010
"In the Shadow of Zekrom!" Japanese Air Date: September 23, 2010

X/Y Japanese Release Date: October 12, 2013
"Kalos, Where Dreams and Adventures Begin!" Japanese Air Date: October 17, 2013

Sun/Moon Japanese Release Date: November 18, 2016
"Alola to New Adventure!" Japanese Air Date: November 17, 2016

Sword/Shield Japanese Release Date: November 15, 2019
"Enter Pikachu!" Japanese Air Date: November 17, 2019

Ignoring the series debut, which would obviously have a larger gap between game and anime premieres since it was the very start, the longest span has been exactly one week until now. By the time JN135 airs, it will have been 21 days since Scarlert and Violet released; three times the current longest gap. And as of right now, there's absolutely no word on anything after JN135. I dunno about you, but I find that very peculiar.

People have definitely been commenting on the lack of news for a new series for quite some time, especially when we're getting closer to Scarlet and Violet's release. It is a weird and different situation compared to other generations. Personally though, I wouldn't read too much into that due to the production problems. If we didn't have those four clip shows, we would have already finished the Leon battle and probably would have started the Project Mew episodes. The behind the scenes problems might not be the only factor as to why we haven't heard any news for a new series, but I do think it's a noteworthy factor at least.

 

[Momentum]

Here's something I'm not seeing many people discuss; isn't is strange that Scarlet & Violet are a week away and Journeys is still airing with no word on another season?

Gold/Silver Japanese Release Date: November 21, 1999
"Don't Touch That 'dile" Japanese Air Date: October 14, 1999

Ruby/Sapphire Japanese Release Date: November 21, 2002
"Get the Show on the Road!" Japanese Air Date: November 21, 2002

Diamond/Pearl Japanese Release Date: September 28, 2006
"Following A Maiden's Voyage!" Japanese Air Date: September 28, 2006

Black/White Japanese Release Date: September 18, 2010
"In the Shadow of Zekrom!" Japanese Air Date: September 23, 2010

X/Y Japanese Release Date: October 12, 2013
"Kalos, Where Dreams and Adventures Begin!" Japanese Air Date: October 17, 2013

Sun/Moon Japanese Release Date: November 18, 2016
"Alola to New Adventure!" Japanese Air Date: November 17, 2016

Sword/Shield Japanese Release Date: November 15, 2019
"Enter Pikachu!" Japanese Air Date: November 17, 2019

Ignoring the series debut and Red/Blue for obvious reasons, the longest it has taken an anime season to premiere after the respective game release is five days. But JN135 will air 21 days after the release of Scarlet & Violet; a drastic record set for the series. And with still no details on the next season, if there even is one, it makes you wonder.

Edit: @Hidden Mew sorry, I had to re-write my post and removed the original. You'll have to re-submit your reply.

 

[Broseph08]

If Ash does go to Paldea, I don't think he'll necessary go with a specific goal. In the last two series, it seems like he traveled to meet new Pokemon and have fun before eventually getting into a competition so I think it'd be similar. Maybe he hears about terrastalizing and realizes he can't be a Pokemon master without understanding that phenomena and leaves to check it out. Eventually, he'd get dragged into the gym quest

Based on how Paldea seems to work, it seems to be easy to figure out the tournament. It looks like getting all 8 badges puts you in the 'champion rank' and there are a lot of trainers in that rank in Paldea. Once he gets 8 badges, they can make a tournament with everyone in the champion rank where Ash battles them and faces off against Geeta or whoever

 

[Singaporean]

If Ash does go to Paldea, I don't think he'll necessary go with a specific goal. In the last two series, it seems like he traveled to meet new Pokemon and have fun before eventually getting into a competition so I think it'd be similar. Maybe he hears about terrastalizing and realizes he can't be a Pokemon master without understanding that phenomena and leaves to check it out. Eventually, he'd get dragged into the gym quest

Based on how Paldea seems to work, it seems to be easy to figure out the tournament. It looks like getting all 8 badges puts you in the 'champion rank' and there are a lot of trainers in that rank in Paldea. Once he gets 8 badges, they can make a tournament with everyone in the champion rank where Ash battles them and faces off against Geeta or whoever

Only few week, we will find the answer. At the same time, I'll would love to see this unknown Paldea champion display her/his arrogant and even demanding Ash to hand over the title of both Alola and World Championship. If he/she beat Ash. That will be something else, especially he/she might had been watching the tournament and is preparing to face Ash in the foreshadowing moment.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

Only few week, we will find the answer. At the same time, I'll would love to see this unknown Paldea champion display her/his arrogant and even demanding Ash to hand over the title of both Alola and World Championship. If he/she beat Ash. That will be something else, especially he/she might had been watching the tournament and is preparing to face Ash in the foreshadowing moment.

We already know who Paldea's Champion is. Or rather, who's the strongest Champion-ranked Trainer in Paldea.

 

[Singaporean]

We already know who Paldea's Champion is. Or rather, who's the strongest Champion-ranked Trainer in Paldea.

Oh I see! It is Geeta. Hope for Ash to met her somewhere not far away from future. Also of her watching the Tournament during all these time of World Championship. Nevertheless, if she turns out to be antagonist like Rose. It will be something else.

 

[AnimeboyIanpower]

I wonder what the odds are that this genuinely does ends up being the final episode that follows Ash/TR?

Hopefully not likely. I like Ash and want to see his adventures continue!