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Alternate combat systems

Kriegsaffe No. 9

Pikachu f'taghn!
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Pokemon is a damn fine game, we can agree on that, but what if one of the most fundamental aspects of it--the combat system--were changed? The current game is pretty basic: turn-based, Speed determines initiative, one action per turn, etc. Here we can sound off on different interpretations, either as dramatic as changing out combat systems to imitate another series', or as slight as a few alterations to the basic setup. A couple I've thought of:

1. ATB turns: Like a number of Final Fantasy games, a simple alteration to the turn structure would be an Active Time Battle gage. In one-on-one combat, little would change; the faster Pokemon would usually go first, moves that would make a Pokemon wait a turn or miss a turn slow down the ATB gage dramatically, and so on. A major difference is that very fast Pokemon, like Electrode or speed-form Deoxys, could literally run rings around slower Pokemon, attacking multiple times without retaliation. Obviously balance would need to be tweaked, perhaps by introducing new attacks that play off of the ATB meter or by decreasing the power of certain attacks.

2. Movement on a combat map. This would be fun--being able to move around a combat grid and launch attacks all around. You could do all kinds of fun things with this--environmental bonuses or penalties, at the very least. Imagine a Hitmonchan using a Mega Punch to send a Flying-type into, say, an electric generator, turning the attack from Normal to Electric and dealing super-effective damage, or a Toxicroak jumping into a pond to increase its HP each turn.
(To prevent abuse, I'd imagine only Normal attacks could get an element swap.)

3. Called shots! I've been playing Fallout 2 lately, and I think called shots are horribly underutilized in computer/console RPGs. It'd mix well with other combat alterations, too. Imagine being able to attack an enemy's limbs to weaken certain attacks, or just go for the head to try and increase your damage at a penalty to hit. A normal attack would be "to the torso" (or torso-analogue), a straightforward attack with no particular bonuses or penalties; the better the bonuses for hitting a particular area, the tighter the penalties.
Some attacks would interact in an unusual way, of course; a Thunder attack normally attacks the head or torso, so you couldn't target those regions for extra damage. Neither could you use Earthquake to hit a biped in the left arm. Surf is an area attack, so it'd hit all areas on a target, essentially a torso hit. That one move (I forget its name) will make the next attack always hit, but it can only go for a normal attack, not a called shot.
Personally, my mind is most abuzz at this potential, though obviously it'd be the hardest to implement.

Any other ideas or takes?
 
Fighter game, on the Wii. Perhaps as a side thing in, say, PBR. Maybe using the Smash Bros format rather than a standard fighter format.

Each move is mapped to one of the four D-Pad buttons, as in Free Battle mode. Nunchuk is used for movement. Alternatively, the Classic Controller could be used, as will quite likely be the case in SSMB. PP values are not a hard limit, but instead limit how often you can use a particular move. The moves work as close to normal as can be managed in a fighting game. The pokemon's stats and types affect things normally, so your L1 Pichu isn't likely to beat down Mewtwo just because you are better than the other player at fighting games.

Speed affects how fast you move, but relative to the other Pokemon in the both parties rather than an exact speed. So if all Pokemon in both parties have the same speed, they all move at a fairly normal rate. But if you have something weird like one party all with 50 speed and one party all with 150 speed, the 50 speed player's movements are going to be very sluggish while the 150 player's movements would appear faster than usual.

For double battles, the second pokemon either works on AI, automatically using appropriate moves, or can be controlled by another player.
 
I'd like to see an Action RPG battle system. The Pokemon can move around freely but their speed stat determines how fast they can attack. And like in a lot of other games, the moves would have an attack delay. For example, a Mega Punch has an attack delay of two seconds, Mach Punch has a delay of half a second, and Giga Impact/Hyper Beam has a delay of seven seconds. There should also be a way to dodge attacks, simply by moving out of their way or jumping into the air. And maybe Kriegsaffe's electric generator idea can be implemented alongside this to make the battle system closer to the anime.
 
The latter two ideas sound pretty cool, but the ATB system sounds like it would make the game imbalanced toward speedsters (or more than it already is). There's no point to having tanks in that system, since except for the rarest of cases (Skarmory against a four-physical-move enemy), the tank's defenses couldn't take four or five hits before it manages to go down and, instead of being in there for the long run and getting multiple hits in before going down, it gets one. The metagame would degenerate into a sprint; there'd be no point to Pokémon like Lapras because the trainer can switch to Jolteon/Zapdos and KO with Thunderbolt before Lapras can lift a finger. Plus, how would attached items and switching factor into this?
 
The latter two ideas sound pretty cool, but the ATB system sounds like it would make the game imbalanced toward speedsters (or more than it already is). There's no point to having tanks in that system, since except for the rarest of cases (Skarmory against a four-physical-move enemy), the tank's defenses couldn't take four or five hits before it manages to go down and, instead of being in there for the long run and getting multiple hits in before going down, it gets one. The metagame would degenerate into a sprint; there'd be no point to Pokémon like Lapras because the trainer can switch to Jolteon/Zapdos and KO with Thunderbolt before Lapras can lift a finger. Plus, how would attached items and switching factor into this?

That's a good point. A hardline solution would be an ATB for the trainer, letting him/her take action only after his/her ATB filled up. As for tanks... yeah. ATB'd be tricky.
 
i'd like to see 3 on 3(or triple) battles. how would the move BeatUp work on these ideas then seeing as each Pokemon in your party gets a turn
 
You mentioned the time gauge, but I'd personally prefer to see the implementation of something similar to what was used in Tales of Symphonia than what the Final Fantasy series uses.

For those who never got to play ToS, the idea is that your magical attacks are still "ATB", as Kriegsaffe puts it, but your attacks with your sword or fists can occur in real-time like in a fighter. Also, you move your character around the stage using your analog stick and he moves in real time. If you try to run away, you are pursued by close-combat enemies while long-range enemies don't care and still hurt you from afar. Similarly, if you try to close the gap with enemies, they respond by either guarding or welcoming your challenge.

If Pokemon was to employ a ToS-style fighting system, it would be relatively easy to implement: all of their current attacks (as we know them) would be MP attacks that are still ATB-determined, but the programmers would then have to invent basic "physical attacks" like scraping, kicking, headbutting, etc. (not the moves "Scratch" or "Headbutt" though!). Physical moves would do ample damage if you have a high attack stat, whereas creatures with low attack and high Special Attack would want to rely on their MP moves.

In such a game, Alakazam would be a fighter who wants to stay in the back row and attack from a distance, whereas Machamp (true to his "No Guard" title) would be the kind of brawler who would race right at the enemy for a quick confrontation.

This is pretty much the same as Kriegsaffe's ATB nomination at the top, but it at least allows for fluid real-time movement of the character. You don't just stand still and dish attacks (like in PBR or Final Fantasy), you have to actually get up close for close-range attacks or else they're going to fail.
 
but the programmers would then have to invent basic "physical attacks" like scraping, kicking, headbutting, etc. (not the moves "Scratch" or "Headbutt" though!).

it's not so hard to believe, considering they already did that in Mystery Dungeon (speaking of which, is it just me, or did no one else bother to bring up that game in the whole thread?).
 
If the battle system in the Mega man Battle Netowrk gba games was used that'd be cool. Then again, We play as the pokemon trainers, so we'd have to tell the pokemon what to do, so I don't think they'd use wny of the previously mentiond Ideas thought it'd be nice if they did.

A non turn based system, determined by speed would be nice, cause in a real world pokemon battle , or anime battle, they don't take turns calling out moves. lol.

Also, the ability to dodge would be nice.

Combining moves, would be nice especially for double battles. For example, a pikachu and swellow are double battling a earthquake using opponent. When earthquake is used the swellow has the option of carrying the pikachu up into the air with it, so the pikachu can avoid the attack. Or, a pikachu and marril battling together can combine there water gun and thundershock attacks respectively into one attack.
 
it's not so hard to believe, considering they already did that in Mystery Dungeon (speaking of which, is it just me, or did no one else bother to bring up that game in the whole thread?).
Very awesome point. Can't believe I forgot to even mention this, but then again, so did so many others! :eek: Mystery Dungeon is my favorite Pokemon game to date (and it's not even a "real" Pokemon game!), and while it's missing a lot from the original games and I would not be in favor of it completely replacing the originals, it would be very nice to see the battle system ChunSoft employed imported into the "mainstream" Pokemon games.
 
it would be truely awesome if you could combine attacks together like im the anime or save your precious Electric/Fire Pokemon from moves like Earthquake. too bad Nintendo wont ever do that. lol!
 
Very awesome point. Can't believe I forgot to even mention this, but then again, so did so many others! :eek: Mystery Dungeon is my favorite Pokemon game to date (and it's not even a "real" Pokemon game!), and while it's missing a lot from the original games and I would not be in favor of it completely replacing the originals, it would be very nice to see the battle system ChunSoft employed imported into the "mainstream" Pokemon games.

No, the main Pokemon series don't have to be Roguelikes. It's fine where it is right now, in Mystery Dungeon.
 
Frankly, I'd love if they implement the Sanity factor from Shadow Hearts (rename it as Fatigue). That way, a single Pokemon can't sweep the opponents team, since it will tire out. Though there would be a problem with online play seeing as the trainers can't use items.

I'd also like a Pokemon version of the Judgment Ring. Though it has to be balanced so people won't abuse it.
 
Very awesome point. Can't believe I forgot to even mention this, but then again, so did so many others! :eek: Mystery Dungeon is my favorite Pokemon game to date (and it's not even a "real" Pokemon game!), and while it's missing a lot from the original games and I would not be in favor of it completely replacing the originals, it would be very nice to see the battle system ChunSoft employed imported into the "mainstream" Pokemon games.

yup my favorite pokemon game too!
though i cant see how it could be implemented really...
 
Yup, my favorite pokemon game too!
Though I can't see how it could be implemented really...

Game developers are a thinktank bunch, they can come up with it if they want to.

I really want to see a proper Pokemon racing title, like, a all competitors are able to use a "Quick Attack" dash move to help gain speed and a move that is signature to its body build and type. A Flareon for instance, would use Flare Blitz to knock an opposing racer off course, or a Xatu would use Night Shade to slow down an opponent. These moves are activated by power-ups (ala Mario Kart.) The frequency of the dashing move would depend on the Pokemon's speed stat. When a Pokemon with a higher speed stat uses it, it lasts a bit longer, but the recharge time is also longer than a slow Pokemon.

A chaotic battle system like Twisted Metal's would be insanely fun. >D
 
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