Discussion about saving the old VAs

[Barb]

I was furious because you guys were continuing when you had NO CHANCE and were listening to the old VAs like slaves (plus you were leading fans on).

They are free to believe in whatever cause they wish to believe in, whether you like it or not. How unbelievably arrogant of you to assume that EVERYONE should listen to you and ONLY you.

You don't have to like the cause they believe in, nor do you have to support it in any way. What you DO NOT have the right to do is make them stop. You have NO authority, here or anywhere else, to do that. Deal with it.

Also, I did not accuse YOU of "slandering" my website, I accused that LiveJournal SOVA website, which has several articles bashing both me and my website. It's not an accusation, it's fact.

I seem to recall differently. And I seem to recall making a post that explicitly asked you which posters IN THE SOVA THREAD were slandering your website, and you then posted a link to LiveJournal. Did you not read--or understand--my post?

 

[Harold the Wonder Dog]

I hope you realise that you're entirely missing the point.

No, I think you're completely missing mine. But that's okay, other people got it.

 

[Water Pokémon Master]

I was editing my post earlier this morning, but the forums went down. Here it is:

"WPM was furious upon hearing about this. He accused me of slandering his website when I did no such thing, and declared that I was clinging to false hopes since what he had given me was infallible truth. He demanded I put an end to SOVA, claiming I was causing trouble by continuing it onwards. His goals became very clear - for some reason, he was seeing shutting down SOVA as an equivalent of keeping his website reputation in tact, simply because I had doubts about what I had heard. The conflict was only resolved by WPM being banned on Bulbagarden forums for a period of time."

I was furious because you guys were continuing when you had NO CHANCE and were listening to the old VAs like slaves (plus you were leading fans on). Also, I did not accuse YOU of "slandering" my website, I accused that LiveJournal SOVA website, which has several articles bashing both me and my website. I know you never accused my site. Only the LJ community one did.

"They pressured the original voice actors into asking for a higher fee than standard - and the original voice actors did thus. PUSA supposedly could not afford this higher asking price, and so, rather than re-negotiate anything, they had to turn to cheaper replacements."
I never said anything like that. 4Kids did not pressure the old VAs into "asking for a higher price." All decisions that were made were made by 4Kids - they are the ones who asked for too much money, not the VAs.

"And now we come to recent events, in which two paragraphs in his article - which he again claims to be infallible truth - have spread like wildfire. In these paragraphs, he does not say that he heard any of this from one source - rather, that he heard several things from several very different sources and this is what he has concluded must be the truth. This implies assumption. And as past events have shown, we know where WPM's bias lies."
We know where yours lies to.

Not to mention - you have not even TALKED to PUSA. I have talked to BOTH sides countless times. I know more about this situation than anyone, and there is no way on earth you can deny that. You have never, ever, ever approached PUSA to listen to their side - you just listen to old 4Kids posts and e-mails. Never even ATTEMPTED. How can you attempt to take action when you don't even know half of the story? You are extremely careless, and it shows even more now. It's dangerous not to listen to both sides, and it shows through your and SOVA's actions towards PUSA.

Let me just say this again, since SOVA refuses to address it. THIS ALL HAPPENED BECAUSE 4KIDS ASKED FOR TOO MUCH MONEY AND WOULD NOT LET POKEMON USA HIRE THE OLD VOICE ACTORS. BOTH sides have acknowledged it. What part of that do you not understand, Pie? Everyone who has quit SOVA has seen this, everyone with a brain has seen this, so why can't you? You are in this for PERSONAL REASONS, not for the bettering of the fandom and Pokemon. Most of the community can see this now.

And you know what? The reason I wanted SOVA to stop was because you guys were creating problems for everyone and were leading on fans into a cause that they could not LEGALLY win. The thing that frustrates me most in ANYTHING is stupidity, and a lot of it was floating around like wild fire in SOVA. I care for the fandom and the community whether you want to believe it or not, and if I see that something is going wrong, I WILL try to correct it. You call me biased just because I took PUSA's side, yet aren't you biased for taking 4Kids' by that logic? I listened to both sides' stories - you did not. I have the capacity to choose a side because I know BOTH - you do not. I took PUSA's side because of the certain truths being told by both the VAs and PUSA about what happened, and it all adds up - you have not examined the situation.

Who's more qualified to know, Pie? Who is more reliable? A Pokemon webmaster who has listened to both sides, who has talked to 4Kids in e-mail and IM, who has talked to Pokemon USA in person and on the internet, or a fan girl of Brock who wants Eric Stuart back for personal reasons? Do you THINK I liked the old voice actors going? Of course not - I was sad for a while too. What kind of fan would I be if I were not? Yet, why would I want to put down a movement to save them if I had no reason to? I'm not stupid or crazy - I have been fighting SOVA because of all the stupidity, ignorance, and misinformation floating around. You try to put into fans' minds that they can succeed at a cause they cannot, and then what happens when they fail? What did I tell you MONTHS ago about what would happen if you continued? You would just keep digging yourself a hole because you would not be able to stop - you would have preached your cause for so long that turning on it would be denying everything you have done.

Let's face it, Pie. SOVA is over. PUSA is going to do the dub now. The fandom only sent 200 letters to PUSA - that's nothing. You would have to send two MILLION to have any affect on them. Stop leading people on into thinking they can do anything, because they cannot, as sad and unfortunate as it is to say.

Let's WORK with PUSA to make a better dub instead of fighting issues that they will NOT BE ADDRESSING ANYMORE. PUSA has been taking everyone's feedback, which 4Kids NEVER did, so let's give feedback that will improve the show. By law, the old VAs can never work for PUSA, and I doubt that after all of this either side would want to work together.

 

[paperfairy]

WPM for the win.

EDIT: I say we let SOVA do whatever they want - as long as they don't get on national television, representing the entire PKMN community.. Pokémon fans already get bashed enough, I don't need my mom and my friends laughing at ME, someone not a part of SOVA, because a couple of people are trying to fight something that is actually our ally.

 

[Water Pokémon Master]

There's the ultimate problem and why I wish SOVA would just stop. They could ultimately end up embarrassing and hurting the Pokemon community's reputation because of their radical and ignorant actions. That's why I said the way they are handling this is dangerous. If they were to TALK to PUSA, they'd stop SOVA, but since they refuse to, they are just on a crash course with hurting everyone. They only care about themselves and their selfish (and personal) ambitions, and they do not care about the consequences of their actions and what negative impact they could have on us.

To tell you the truth, I believe they do not wish to approach PUSA because they are afraid to hear the truth. They just hide behind their computers. One of their recent plans is to send a smashed Mastermind DVD to PUSA. I would find that threatening if I was PUSA, and it just shows what cowards they are. Maybe if PUSA sees the message as threatening, they'll take some action against SOVA.

Now do you guys see why I have been fighting them? XD

 

[Alabaster.j.cat]

I've pretty much been against it since the beginning and I love how they say they will continue until (a) The Original VA's are back (b) The Series is at it's end. This makes me hope that the Series is ending soon. The whole pokemon community does not feel the same way the SOVA does and yet if they take their actions far enough, the fans will be ridiculed and laughed at.

 

[Trainer-c]

I'm not worried because personally, think the chances of SOVA getting on television is pretty much zero. For all professional (and media) intents and purposes, the SOVA matter was settled months ago. Any television outlet would look pretty foolish covering SOVA and in this era of journalistic integrity being in question, what sane reporter would risk their career over a matter as small as this.

I am more concerned with how they may abuse Pokémon USA to the point where they just stop listening to fans period. We finally have a company that is more fan-friendly incharge of the anime, I don't want to see PUSA say 'screw it' and stop considering all the fans because of a small group.

 

[Water Pokémon Master]

I suppose it's true that they will never make it to television, and hopefully any other media, but their actions could hurt everyone else, as I said before. They are so radical that when they find out they have absolutely no chance to make it to television or anywhere else that they will probably do something drastic. Their heads are not on straight, since they are being fueled by personal ambitions, and as Pie stated, they won't stop until the Anime ends or the VAs come back. Who knows what they will do in that time.

Maybe they will just die out when they realize nothing can be done, which would be a good thing for everyone. In the long run, they are really only hurting themselves and could possibly hurt everyone else. PUSA is listening to us, and we don't want them to stop because of some radical group.

And SOVA, if you are reading this, make sure that if you do anything at all, you specify that you do not represent the Pokemon community. I noticed their new forum (or shall I say, WPM bashing area), and how they pulled lists of SOVA members off of SPPf. The names they pulled off of SPPf were indeed not new names, but names of people who had once been in SOVA and most likely were not now (people who had joined over time, basically). I think they are trying to make themselves look larger than they really are, but it may be that SOVA only now consists of a dozen or so members (as shown by the member list on their forums). If that's the case, then we might not even need to worry about them anymore, since a dozen people cannot do much to a company (a mosquito on a moving car).

 

[Habunake]

I'm getting kinda sick at the whole thing, as in to tears. This whole issue is tearing the fandom apart and PUSA is getting a bad rep, even know it does seem they care more about us then 4kids then. I have a feeling the whole VA thing is the fault of a certain demonic person, who goes around spreading lies and trying to change everything into their perfect world!

Seriously, I miss the days of May vs Misty, not SOVA vs Everyone else.

 

[Water Pokémon Master]

And who would that "demonic" person be? If you mean 4Kids, then yes, you are correct. ^_^

Habunake, I don't think the fandom is being "torn apart." Most of the fandom is on one side right now. You don't need to cry over something like this... there are much more important things to worry about, such as hunger, disease, poverty, global warming, the potential for our world to be destroyed by a hunk of rock from space. This is nothing compared to other issues in our world.

The best thing to do right now - work with PUSA. When the first episode airs, send them feedback to improve future episodes and the VA's voices. Support them, as they probably would appreciate it (they do read these forum threads and other forum threads, ya know, and they do have some messengers ). I am sure it has been hard on them as well with all of the past "DEATH TO PUSA," "KILL PUSA" things going around. Don't be waisting your time and energy on something you cannot win (and don't start with that 'if you try hard enough' 'if you really cared...' 'down with pusa' junk). Focus it on something YOU CAN DO.

EDIT: Random observation. I just noticed every single member on SOVA's forums are female. Hmm....

 

[Hikari-chan]

WPM, instead of fighting a organization that will never end, I suggest one thing, is to just leave us alone. If you totally don't agree with us, just please keep your opinions to yourself. Honestly, this controversy is like sooo totally hard enough for a girl to handle, but this fight you not realizing is totally hurting the forums, but also the people's feelings, respect, and etc. We totally don't want people to divide because of it, so please stop trying to stop SOVA, it's not going to solve the problem. The last thing I totally don't want is the fandom falling appart.

 

[Habunake]

And who would that "demonic" person be? If you mean 4Kids, then yes, you are correct. ^_^

Al Khan.

Decepti-Khan anyone? I would expect he wants to keep his VA's to use them for his next big bastardization of an anime.

 

[The Big Al]

Or worse, that Viva Pinnata garbage that makes shows like Reboot and Beast Wars emo.

WPM, instead of fighting a organization that will never end, I suggest one thing, is to just leave us alone. If you totally don't agree with us, just please keep your opinions to yourself. Honestly, this controversy is like sooo totally hard enough for a girl to handle, but this fight you not realizing is totally hurting the forums, but also the people's feelings, respect, and etc. We totally don't want people to divide because of it, so please stop trying to stop SOVA, it's not going to solve the problem. The last thing I totally don't want is the fandom falling appart.

And yet you people have thrown caution to the wind and many of us fear what little respect remained for the Pokemon fandom will be utterly destroyed because you people think you can fight the flood. And the fact SOVA is starting to mirror the Bush administration just gives me another reason to not like it or what it's doing.

 

[Water Pokémon Master]

WPM, instead of fighting a organization that will never end, I suggest one thing, is to just leave us alone. If you totally don't agree with us, just please keep your opinions to yourself. Honestly, this controversy is like sooo totally hard enough for a girl to handle, but this fight you not realizing is totally hurting the forums, but also the people's feelings, respect, and etc. We totally don't want people to divide because of it, so please stop trying to stop SOVA, it's not going to solve the problem. The last thing I totally don't want is the fandom falling appart.

I'm not going to stop posting my opinions until I know for sure that SOVA will make clear in whatever actions it does that (a) it does not represent the community, but a dozen members (atm), (b) SOVA does not do anything drastic to harm the community's reputation, and (c) SOVA does not harm the new and strong relationship between the community and PUSA. PUSA has, without a doubt, been listening to our feedback and posts, but I do not want them to consider cancelling the show (as they at one point wanted to) or severing their ties with the community because of people like you who make it their absolute goal, despite everything else, to harm PUSA. I know they won't cancel the show now, but you guys really are only in existance now to (a) hurt PUSA's reputation with people, (b) to not admit your mistake, but continue on blindly so you do not have to admit your wrongs, and (c) to bash me.

I am sure you all know as well as we do that PUSA will not be changing the VAs and that even if they wanted to, they can not, so now we must ask ourselves why you guys are continuing. You know that right now, nothing you do will impact the choice of VAs, so are you continuing just to upset PUSA and make them feel bad, like what the old VAs had been doing? It seems like you reflect the side you are representing more than you think. Or is it because you just do not want to admit your time was wasted? I love how not one of you has addressed this the countless times I have brought it up.

 

[Water Pokémon Master]

Al Khan.

Decepti-Khan anyone? I would expect he wants to keep his VA's to use them for his next big bastardization of an anime.

Hmm, that's a thing to ponder. I wonder if all of this did originate from him. Not like it matters now, but it's still interesting to know.

*adds to list*

 

[Kazamatsuri]

One thing I want to know from members of SOVA is this. Why only Eric Stuart for Brock? Why only Veronica Taylor for Ash? Why only Maddie Blaustein for Meowth and so forth. Why should the new VAs be judged based on the fact that they are not the old ones, rather than on their own merits?

 

[Habunake]

Bill Rodgers seems like a great person, and Sarah is very cute as well.

They're getting so much hate for no reason except their job.

 

[Water Pokémon Master]

Yeah, even BEFORE anyone heard their voice clips, SOVA had a poll where people voted against her just because of her age. That's just how weird they are.

 

[FabuVinny]

WPM: If you see SOVA as such a small group, then why do you feel so threatened by them?

No, I think you're completely missing mine. But that's okay, other people got it.

No, you were definately missing mine.

For all professional (and media) intents and purposes, the SOVA matter was settled months ago.

That doesn't appear to be the case. The new voices were only heard last week and it is only recently that they managed to pull gadfly out of the SOVA thread.

I am more concerned with how they may abuse Pokémon USA to the point where they just stop listening to fans period. We finally have a company that is more fan-friendly incharge of the anime, I don't want to see PUSA say 'screw it' and stop considering all the fans because of a small group.

I think it's more likely that PUSA are going to say 'screw it' to the actions of whole fandom, which will happen when they find out that it is impossible to please it. SOVA doesn't see PUSA as their enemy but PUSA does see SOVA as its enemy. I'm a little more sympathetic towards SOVA at the moment.

And who would that "demonic" person be? If you mean 4Kids, then yes, you are correct. ^_^

How can you be so sure that no one at PUSA has lied?

 

[Water Pokémon Master]

Because they all tell the same specific story, and two of the 4Kids VAs have told me the same story. Unless they are ALL lying.

I seriously do not know how many times I have said the above statement. I feel like a broken record.