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General Anime Spoilers

I want to ask you about the theme of the route 26 in silver.

I love both the game one and anime one but really the best is the anime one in my opinion.

This is the video link:Pokemon TV Anime Best 1997-2010 - Route 26

And thank you very good. Hope to see somes hahaha

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So based on what I've heard through the grapevine on Twitter, it sounds like Gengar's going to be learning Will-O-Wisp from training with Ash's Fire types at the lab in the Paul episode on Friday. Not......really sure how I feel about that. On the one hand, Ash's team kinda did need a Fire type move, and ngl I'm interested to see how they implement Will-O-Wisp with a main character's Pokemon. Will it stay the way it has in the past in the anime, as a sort of damage-dealing attack, or will they do what Journeys has done waaay too much if you ask me and take the effect directly from the games, with no unique liberties whatsoever? But on the other hand, Gengar's moveset was already near-perfect as it was, so I don't really want to see it changed. (What move do you think will get replaced for Will-O-Wisp BTW? If I had to guess, I'd say Ice Punch.) Furthermore, it looks to me after having watched the preview a few times that it looks like Lucario kept Force Palm. If that turns out to be true, uggggghhhh........:cautious: Force Palm is only good early-game. It's really not that good of an attack. Reversal looked sooooo much cooler, and is potentially more powerful anyway.

I wonder if any of Ash's other Journeys 'mons will be learning new moves here? (Maybe Leaf Blade for Sirfetch'd? Pleeeease........)
 
CharizardFan7 said:
So based on what I've heard through the grapevine on Twitter, it sounds like Gengar's going to be learning Will-O-Wisp from training with Ash's Fire types at the lab in the Paul episode on Friday. Not......really sure how I feel about that. On the one hand, Ash's team kinda did need a Fire type move, and ngl I'm interested to see how they implement Will-O-Wisp with a main character's Pokemon. Will it stay the way it has in the past in the anime, as a sort of damage-dealing attack, or will they do what Journeys has done waaay too much if you ask me and take the effect directly from the games, with no unique liberties whatsoever? But on the other hand, Gengar's moveset was already near-perfect as it was, so I don't really want to see it changed. (What move do you think will get replaced for Will-O-Wisp BTW? If I had to guess, I'd say Ice Punch.) Furthermore, it looks to me after having watched the preview a few times that it looks like Lucario kept Force Palm. If that turns out to be true, uggggghhhh........:cautious: Force Palm is only good early-game. It's really not that good of an attack. Reversal looked sooooo much cooler, and is potentially more powerful anyway.

I wonder if any of Ash's other Journeys 'mons will be learning new moves here? (Maybe Leaf Blade for Sirfetch'd? Pleeeease........)
Click to expand...

Gengars moveset is already perfect as is. All the moves it currently knows are either coverage moves (Dazzling Gleam for Dark and Ice Punch for Ground) or STAB move (Shadow Ball and Sludge Bomb).
Dracovish packs Dragon Rush, Ice Fang, Water Gun and Fishious Rend. The only move i potentially can see replaced is Water Gun, but there is no need for it to go.
Lucario also has a packed moveset with Steel Beam, Aura Sphere, Double Team, Reversal/Force Palm (And if Lucario has kept Force Palm, it means it lost Reversal in favor of Steel Beam)


Basically, all of Ash's Pokemon are stacked moveset wise. The only one who can benefit from a new move are Dragonite and Sirfetch'd.
Sirfetch'd can get rid of Night Slash and Fury Cutter (Honestly, there is no point in having both a Dark and Bug type move, since both types cover Psychic weakness). Instead give it Poison Jab (To cover that Fairy weakness) and Grassy Glide (Utilize it gliding on that shield).
Dragonite should get rid of Hyper Beam and learn Flamethrower, to at least cover that glaring Ice weakness.
 
Supposed Master Eight match revelation:

According to DeepL translation:
"As noted on page 53 of The Television and page 66 of TV Guide.
The first round of the Masters Tournament was Dande vs Alan .
I wanted Alan to play Satoshi "

I warned everyone.
Can we even pretend to be surprised if they don't want a Charizard losing to anything else? This would be far from the weirdest writing decision in this series.
It wouldn't even be the weirdest specifically involving Alain.
 
Last edited:
Daren said:
Supposed Master Eight match revelation:

According to DeepL translation:
"As noted on page 53 of The Television and page 66 of TV Guide.
The first round of the Masters Tournament was Dande vs Alan .
I wanted Alan to play Satoshi "

I warned everyone.
Can we even pretend to be surprised they don't want a Charizard losing to anything else? This would be far from the weirdest writing decision in this series.
It wouldn't even be the weirdest specifically involving Alain.
Click to expand...
i have no problem with that!:wynaut:
 
Daren said:
Supposed Master Eight match revelation:

According to DeepL translation:
"As noted on page 53 of The Television and page 66 of TV Guide.
The first round of the Masters Tournament was Dande vs Alan .
I wanted Alan to play Satoshi "

I warned everyone.
Can we even pretend to be surprised they don't want a Charizard losing to anything else? This would be far from the weirdest writing decision in this series.
It wouldn't even be the weirdest specifically involving Alain.
Click to expand...
If this is real… then the writers are so fucking stupid that not only does Ash not use his reserves, Ash doesn’t beat Alain. Wtf. There should be huge backlash. How are people ok with this
 
Daren said:
Supposed Master Eight match revelation:

According to DeepL translation:
"As noted on page 53 of The Television and page 66 of TV Guide.
The first round of the Masters Tournament was Dande vs Alan .
I wanted Alan to play Satoshi "

I warned everyone.
Can we even pretend to be surprised if they don't want a Charizard losing to anything else? This would be far from the weirdest writing decision in this series.
It wouldn't even be the weirdest specifically involving Alain.
Click to expand...
I'm not gonna trust this person. It was pointed out the Ash vs Lance post was fake.
 
So, the anime writers' flow of thoughts was "Let's have old gimick Zard be pwned by new gimick Zard. That'll show 'em" instead of "Let's have Ash (and the writers) redeem ourselves for Kalos League". Interesting...

If that's the case, then it's even more clear that Ash beats Leon or at least his GigaZard, because story-wise there's no other logical outcome of Leon defeating Alain.
 
SamurottMan said:
So, the anime writers' flow of thoughts was "Let's have old gimick Zard be pwned by new gimick Zard. That'll show 'em" instead of "Let's have Ash (and the writers) redeem ourselves for Kalos League". Interesting...

If that's the case, then it's even more clear that Ash beats Leon or at least his GigaZard, because story-wise there's no other logical outcome of Leon defeating Alain.
Click to expand...
It will feel absolutely insulting and just be pointless to include Alain. I wanna know what they're thinking, knowing the serious backlash they had from forcing Ash to lose to Alain and his broken as hell Mega Charizard X.

Part of me is feeling more and more convinced that Ash will defeat Leon though. Something about JN112 just gave me the feeling.
 
Daren said:
It would still raise the stark question of why bring back Alain at all, though.
Click to expand...
Why, to firmly establish how the Charizard Super Mode hierarchy goes, of course! Because apparently Leon being the top Trainer in the world just doesn't make it obvious enough that Gigantamax Charizard is the superiorest Charizard form of them all, so we have to show it beat up the very same Mega Charizard X that was beating up every other Mega back in XY.

...Okay, that's not entirely fair, because there actually is one way that I could see a Leon vs Alain matchup work beyond the obvious "Leon's Charizard flexes for the upteenth time": one noticable flaw that Alain had besides his mindless pursuit of strength is that his non-Charizard Pokemon are basically footnotes, and several of them came off as way weaker than they honestly had any right to be considering their species. A Tyranitar shouldn't be losing that easily to a freaking Pikachu. Yes, Ash's Pikachu is way stronger than the norm, but he still has to sweat most of the time against opponents that are way outside his weight class even when he does come out on top, yet Alain's Tyranitar just got folded despite technically being in that category. So there's an argument to be made that the rest of Alain's team just isn't anywhere close to his Charizard in terms of power and skill because he's neglected their training. Leon could possibly be used as the ideal version of Alain in that, yes, his Charizard is uber-powerful, but so are the rest of his Pokemon, so he's nowhere near as reliant on his ace to carry the team like Alain is.

Mind you, that's the extra-optimistic version. I'm like 99.99999% sure that it's just gonna be a Zard flex and nothing else, but I can at the very least hope...
 
Ghost Diplocaulus said:
Why, to firmly establish how the Charizard Super Mode hierarchy goes, of course! Because apparently Leon being the top Trainer in the world just doesn't make it obvious enough that Gigantamax Charizard is the superiorest Charizard form of them all, so we have to show it beat up the very same Mega Charizard X that was beating up every other Mega back in XY.
Click to expand...
If I were the sort to think too deeply and conspiratorially into things--and I most certainly am--I would wonder if the Charizard shilling is connected to a form of insecurity over how it's not that great in the actual games, and so the show tries to give legs to the modern narrative of Charizard as the greatest ever.
(One could perhaps compare and contrast how Pikachu gets handled but I had a terrible last month and am in no state for a lengthy analysis).

If only Ash's was still active. Then he'd be winning all the battles.
 
Daren said:
If I were the sort to think too deeply and conspiratorially into things--and I most certainly am--I would wonder if the Charizard shilling is connected to a form of insecurity over how it's not that great in the actual games, and so the show tries to give legs to the modern narrative of Charizard as the greatest ever.
Click to expand...
That's something that I've seriously considered myself multiple times. The Mega Charizards do muddle things a bit, though, because those actually are genuinely really good competitively (granted, they're not absurdly overpowered like, say, Mega Kangaskhan, but that'd be like saying that someone who draws even slightly worse than Leonardo DaVinci is automatically a garbage-tier artist), so maybe one could make the argument that this ridiculous overcompensation wouldn't be happening if Megas were still actually usable in the mainline games since it wouldn't even be necessary in the first place. BUT THEN AGAIN, Alain's Charizard was still way more overhyped back in the height of the Mega Evolution era, when the Charizard species was at its absolute prime in the games, than Leon's Charizard is currently (at least in the anime itself)... though that did seem to come at the cost of mega Charizard Y officially being billed as the unloved red-headed stepchild of the Chairzard family. So who knows. Something something instertFullmetalAlchemistreferenceaboutequivalentexchangehere something.

Daren said:
(One could perhaps compare and contrast how Pikachu gets handled but I had a terrible last month and am in no state for a lengthy analysis).
Click to expand...
Oh, Pikachu definitely does get the same treatment. And it's arguably even worse in the mouse's case, since while Charizard is at least fully-evolved and does have genuine standing in low-tier play as a result (not to mention a small niche in OU Sun Teams), Pikachu is just borderline unusable basically everywhere by virtue of being an NFE: even the Light Ball doesn't actually help it accomplish all that much due to just how incredibly dependent it is on that item, making Pikachu both predictable and easy to play around on top of every other inherent-to-NFEs problems it already has. Thing is, Pikachu flies under the radar more easily than Charizard for three important reasons:
  1. Ash's Pikachu has been repeatedly stated to be unusually powerful for his kind (which in gameplay terms could be translated as him either having Partner Pikachu stats or Light Ball essence in his bloodstream. Or both), so one could make the argument that any other Pikachu in his place simply wouldn't have been able to accomplish many of the things that Ash's has. Or at the very least would not have accomplished them as quickly and/or easily.
  2. The anime has a history of making almost any unevolved Pokemon match the strength of fully evolved ones anyway (the only exceptions to this rule have been the caterpillar and coccoon-based Pokemon; even Magikarp got in on the NFE Power fun in the DPP saga). In fact, I'd argue that Journeys is the very first series where Pikachu really feels like the only powerful NFE in existence: just last saga Ash won his first official Championship with a freaking Rowlet on his team, and every single team Ash has had bar the Kalos and Journeys ones had at least one unevolved member besides Pikachu that could nonetheless still keep up with their evolved peers. If from the very beginning Pikachu had been portrayed as the only unevolved Pokemon able to throw down with fully evolved juggernauts while no other NFE could do the same, then it'd truly stick out as Pikachu being unfairly elevated above everybody else.
  3. Even at his peak, Pikachu is never portrayed as inherently unbeatable, since he still loses the occasional battle every now and then. And of course there's the fact that in past sagas, Pikachu was pretty infamous for his "level resets", most notably losing to Trip's rookie Snivy despite having tied with a Latios less than 30 episodes previously.
Meanwhile, Charizard's case is more noticeable because it's constantly billed as being above other fully evolved Pokemon that in the games are at the very least as good as it is, but in many cases miles better, so it's much easier to spot a dissonance there.

Daren said:
If only Ash's was still active. Then he'd be winning all the battles.
Click to expand...
I'm... actually a bit doubtful about this. As massively unfair as it would be, considering Ash's Charizard is the only one we actually saw work towards his current power (no, Alain's Charizard didn't work. Work implies effort, and the only times Alain's Charizard even had to put in any amount of effort was against Pokemon that were either Elite Four-level or literal freaking gods), I could very easily see him being amongst the casualties, seeing how he lacks a gimmick and all. One could say that only Alain's and Leon's Charizards could beat Ash's, but I at least can still imagine him losing to Cynthia's Garchomp or Lance's Gyarados.

Either way, I feel like Ash's Charizard would most likely just be used as yet another measuring stick to make Alain's and Leon's Charizards look better. It wouldn't even be the first time that a Charizard fell victim to its own species' popularity: I mean, just look at how dirty the Y Mega has been done...
 
It seems there's a leak going on Japanese twitter claiming the first round is:
Alain vs Leon
Ash vs Steven
Iris vs Lance
Cynthia vs Diantha
No idea how accurate it is, but it seems the card is being officially revealed tomorrow so we'll see.
 
Please note: The thread is from 2 years ago.
Please take the age of this thread into consideration in writing your reply. Depending on what exactly you wanted to say, you may want to consider if it would be better to post a new thread instead.
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