I have an article idea..

[Cferra]

Hey.

I have an idea for an article on pokemon that are based on certain legends and myths here in the real world. However, I need to find a site that has a complete list of them all as I can only name so much. This is what I got so far and I dunno if there are others:

Charizard: European Dragon
Vulpix/Ninetales: Kitsune
Golduck/Lombre/Ludicolo: Kappa
Rapidash: Unicorn
Gyarados: Parader dragon of Chinese Legend
Lapras: Loch Ness Monster
Articuno: Arabic Anka
Zapdos: Native American Thunderbird
Moltres/Ho-Oh: Phoenix
Dratini/Dragonair: Sea serpents
Dragonite: European Dragon
Mewtwo: Scifi movie of the 50s/60s
Natu/Xatu: totem pole
Raikou: Japanese Raijuu
Entei: beast protecting Kyoto?
Suicune:??
Regis: Jewish golems
Rayquaza: Shenlong dragon
Latios/Latias: dragons
Bagon family: European dragons
Rukario: Anubis

Did I miss any? Can I make an article based on just that? If so, how should it look? Can anyone help?

L_X

 

[Zeta]

I was thinking of doing something similar, so I think it would be an interesting article! Then again, we might want to do an SERIES of articles on what all Pokemon are based on, not just the ones related to myth.

Well, here's some input:
Let's see, well, first of all, "kitsune" just means "fox" in Japanese. In Japanese myth, kitsune aren't special foxes or magical animals like a kappa is. It's just that all foxes were considered that way. Sort of like the native American legends of "Coyote". The Coyote isn't a magical creature unique from wildlife. It's just that according to legends, all coyotes were like that.

I believe that someone mentioned that Magikarp and Gyarados were both related in some myth about a determined carp who became a dragon by trying to swim up a waterfall.

You might want to mention that Moltres is the arabic Pheonix and Ho-oh is the asian pheonix.

Natu/Xatu being based on totem poles is stretching it. Totem poles aren't myths or legends in themselves. They're just stylized art of wild animals.

I'm not sure that Entei or Suicune have real-life myths behind them.

You're also forgetting Clefairy and Celebi and faeries, Meowth and the legend of the beckoning cat, ghost-types and ghosts in general, Electabuzz as an oni, Espeon and bake-neko, perhaps Delibird and Santa Clause, Shiftry and tengu, maybe how Spoink is perhaps related to the fable/legend of pearls before swine, Absol the barghest, Kyogre and it's relation to the Leviathan, Groudon and it's relation to the Behemoth, and Jirachi as a genie/djinn, of course. ;-)

And even if Jynx really is just a stylized version of a cartoon black woman, it's got to get SOMETHING from the Yuki-onna legends to warrant it's Ice-type.

 

[Zhen Lin]

I think the main article for the Pokémon could do with beefing up, so I don't think separate articles are really necessary. However. This is not very relevant for reference purposes, and may also be quite long, so, therefore, if you are going to write more than 3 paragraphs on it, perhaps it would be better to write a separate article. (Link to it from the Pokémon article, of course) Use your judgement.

As for the title, I'm totally stumped. "Origins"? Doesn't quite work. "What ... is based on" is verbose, and titles shouldn't be questions.

 

[Fig]

I think incorporating each of these piece of information in the relevant pokémon article would probably be for the best.

Failing that, definitely keep them together in one article.

In other news, Zeta, I think we should mention the japanese fox legends anyway to explain Ninetales. Even if kitsune is just fox, explaining the japanesse legends surrounding foxes in regard to ninetales make sense.

 

[Zeta]

In other news, Zeta, I think we should mention the japanese fox legends anyway to explain Ninetales. Even if kitsune is just fox, explaining the japanesse legends surrounding foxes in regard to ninetales make sense.

Yes, I agree about that. I just wanted to clarify that kitsunes are not mythical creatures that are like foxes in the same way that dragons are mythical creatures based on lizards, they're just foxes who have myths built around them.

I think incorporating each of these piece of information in the relevant pokémon article would probably be for the best.

Agreed. That would problably be for the best. For that matter, we could incorporate name origins along with that. For English, obviously. But the Japanese name explained would be nice, too. Although not exactly neccessary for all of them (Gallop).

As for the title, I'm totally stumped. "Origins"? Doesn't quite work. "What ... is based on" is verbose, and titles shouldn't be questions.

Inspiration? Idea? Archetype? Base? *shrugs*

 

[Cferra]

I like Origins myself. Anyway, Maybe we can expand the pokedex entries to include what each pokemon are based off of. First the real world animal and then if they have a legend attached like Lombre, describe the legend. Some of the pokemon that have legends are the ones I listed. As for real world animls for each pokemon, we can work on that here.

We could make a paragraph on that stuff just before the moves.

 

[Zeta]

Sounds good. First we have most of the basic data in the box. Then we could have a the section on Flavor (various aspects of the Pokemon mentioned in the anime/PokeDex/games), then the Origins mentioning the ideas/myths/concepts behind the species, followed by stats and moves. Sounds like a plan.

 

[Cferra]

Here's what I got for Ninetales. Worked with Damian. Zeta, Do you have AIM?:


Ninetales, like Vulpix are based on foxes. However, in Japan there are certain legends concerning foxes or kitsunes. One such legend concerns the ninetales the most as it breathes fire, create illusions and has an extremely long lifetime. After living a long time, the creature takes on a spirit form and may be the reason why this line of pokemon can learn ghost attacks.

 

[Zhen Lin]

"is very relevant to Ninetales", "creates illusions", "foxes, or kitsune,", "lifespan", "spectral form", "Ghost-type moves" are the suggestions I have.

 

[Cferra]

Zhen, it's a rough draft. Here it is a little bit better:

Ninetales, like Vulpix are based on foxes. However, in Japan there are certain legends concerning foxes or kitsunes, as they are known in Japan. One such legend which concerns the ninetales the most is how it breathes fire, creates illusions and has an extremely long lifespan. After living a long time, the creature takes on a spirit form, which may be the reason why this line of pokemon can learn Ghost-type moves.

Edited with MS Word's grammar check.

 

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

Lokoko should be mentioned in there somewhere.

 

[MTC]

Maybe there should be another article for Name origins too, these two lists are very common but but are never completed.

 

[Argy]

Ninetales, like Vulpix, are based on foxes. In Japan there are certain legends concerning foxes, or kitsune, as they are known there. One such legend concerns the ninetales, which is said to breathe fire, create illusions, and harbor an extremely long lifespan. After living a long time, the creature takes on a spirit form, which may be the reason why this line of Pokémon can learn Ghost-type moves.

 

[Cferra]

Spruced up the article, Argy. We have name meanings and legends concerning these pokemon:

Charmander
Charizard
Clefairy
Clefable
Ninetales
Dewgong
Drowzee
Lapras
Articuno
Zapdos
Moltres
Mareep
Misdreavus
Unown
Girafirig
Raikou
Ho-Oh
Lombre
Shiftry
Tropius
Absol
Regirock
Regice
Registeel
Kyorgre
Groudon
Jirachi

Any others missing? I could add Rapidash as a unicorn but I dunno. There any others and if not I can start on the real world animals.

L_X

 

[Argy]

Non-Japanese speakers: This is a handy site for searching for Japanese name meanings. Just type in part of the name that you think is a relevant word, and you'll get all results containing those syllables.

 

[Zeta]

This might actually end up being one of the areas that Bulbagarden's Pokedex is very distinct in. Not many large-scale projects have gone through the trouble of doing the english AND Japanese name origins, and what the Pokemon is based on. PokeFor doesn't have it. The green forum doesn't have it.

That makes us special.

 

[Zhen Lin]

Aha! So this is why the etymology links have become so much deeper all of a sudden.

 

[Argy]

I did the majority of such research about six months ago on an independent project that was eventually going to go on the Bulbagarden website. Since the Bulbapedia opened, I've been slowly retouching and entering my research into it.

 

[Argy]

Rough list of the Pokemon for whom we don't have name meanings. There are also many who don't have actual origins (i.e. on what they are based), but I'll have to do some more searching to make that list. This list here was just based on what I could remember. If you can contribute, please do!

No English meaning
Xatu
Lugia (it's iffy)
Ralts
Latias (it's iffy)
Latios (it's iffy)

No Japanese meaning
Venonat/Kongpang (there is something there, but it's extremely iffy)
Poliwag/Nyoromo
Poliwhirl/Nyorozo
Poliwrath/Nyorobon
Politoed/Nyorotono
Arcanine/Windie (unless it's just "windy"?)
Abra/Casey
Hitmonlee/Sawamular
Hitmonchan/Ebiwalar
Tangela/Monjara
Goldeen/Tosakinto
Pinsir/Kailios
Eevee/Eievui
Espeon/Eiefie
Snorlax/Kabigon
Flaafy/Mokoko
Pineco/Kunugidama
Dunsparce/Nokocchi
Swinub/Urimoo
Piloswine/Inomuu
Stantler/Odoshishi
Smeargle/Doble
Larvitar/Yogiras
Tyranitar/Bangiras
Lugia (it's iffy)
Ralts
Meditite/Asanan
Medicham/Charem (it's iffy)
Gulpin/Gokulin
Trapinch/Nuckrar
Latias (it's iffy)
Latios (it's iffy)
Lucario

 

[Zeta]

Piloswine/Inomuu - Isn't "ino" Japanese for boar?

Trapinch/Nuckrar - Shortening of Nutcracker, perhaps? ^^;;

Smeargle/Doble - "Dabble" - To splash or spatter with or as if with a liquid: “I dabbled the canvas with paint".

Politoed/Nyorotono - "tonosamakaeru" means bullfrog. I'm not sure where the Nyoro comes from, though.