Leaks/Rumors Thread

[blitzle stan]

Anyone follow Centro leaks on Twitter? Yesterday they posted the Alolan forms with “2016”, today they posted the Galarian forms with “2019”. The pattern implies that tomorrow there will be new regional forms for 2022.

I’m hopeful it’s not trolling… regional forms for past Sinnoh, especially for Gen 5-8 Pokémon that didn’t exist for Gen 4 anyway, is such an obvious move that allows for new designs in this game set in an old region. My fingers are crossed!

And they are especially crossed for Blitzle to finally be in a proper game in the general wild again. A Sinnohan Blitzle would be crazy so I’m not hoping THAT much.

EDIT: they recently clarified in a response that yes, these posts are in reference to Legends. So they are DEFINITELY saying new regional variants will be shown specifically for Legends Arceus tomorrow. We’ll see!

 

[Silktree]

That could just be a "guess" based on the Sirfetch'd boss, which looks pretty unappealing.

 

[BackSet]

Maybe tomorrow. Or on Wednesday...at around 06:15 PDT.

I meant, there's no way we're not getting more than that in the presentation.

 

[Cainhxrst]

Pretty much every "leaker/insider" has said something contradictory about the upcoming presents in the past few days

-Kelios said he thinks we're getting new forms for Dialga/Palka. Also says the games will be more less faithful than people think
-Centro saying that BDSP are near 1:1 faithful and that Legends will have very exciting elements to it
-Samus Hunter saying that nothing all that new will be shown for Legends, just more detailed gameplay
-Centro "teasing" sinnoh forms for Legends
-Lewtwo claiming he has information and everything the other "leakers" are saying is wrong


The only one of those I listed I consider somewhat reputable is Kelios and I think Dialga/Palkia having new forms is a dubious claim when we've already seen the box art, and the game isn't even made by gamefreak so new pokemon/forms in BDSP are not at all likely to happen anyways.

I'm kind of in just "wait and see" mode because the only real expectation I have with this presents is that the two games will look a bit nicer than they did on reveal. I don't feel that either game is likely to have something new and earth shattering because even Legends can just sell itself entirely on the premise of being an open world pokemon game. I AM however cautiously curious about that AZ domain that got trademarked the other day. He's definitely lived long enough to be alive during the era Legends takes place in and I could see him making a cameo, or perhaps even being the travelling professor as neat easter egg.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

My point is that it provides conversation fodder for those interested in the games to discuss the games with others, which holds focus on the upcoming games. Like I don't know about you, but I can't talk to friends outside this forum about my interest in Legends without either reiterating the miniscule amount of information we have (which would bore me, nevermind anyone else) or trying to come up with my own farfetched bullshit of what could be in it.

These are the exact same conversations we have about leaks. The only difference is that someone's pretending their ideas are insider info.

Which no thanks, we all have a list of things we wish would be in a game that will never happen, no one really wants to willingly have that sort of conversation because that's what will really make you depressed and disappointed with the franchise.

But discussing it with a fake leak and thinking it might actually be real won't lead to the same disappointment when it's proven fake?

But fake leaks at least give a fun conversation starter of "Pffft hey look what this dumb 'leak' says." or "Oh this one sounds interesting, don't think I believe it, though." or "Hey this one might actually be legit." Basically ample opportunity to take the discussions we have here outside of this forum.

Again- how is this getting someone interested if they aren't already interested in the franchise? If they're not familiar with what Pokemon's usually like, why would they be interested in debating whether a leak seems true or not? They won't have any frame of reference for what sounds likely and what doesn't.

Otherwise, conversation-wise, Legends doesn't exist until the next news drop. And then it won't exist again until the next one. Until release day.

Take a look at this post on the Pokemon subreddit.

9 thousands upvotes, almost a thousand comments, just for speculation about what Pokemon wouldn't appear in a game set in the past. That sure looks like a lot of conversation to me.

I just believe that with leaks you get to broadcast your interest more often in a rather less obnoxious way.

Why is "here are some things I'd like to see in this game" more obnoxious than "look at this random internet rumor"? I think most people prefer honest enthusiasm to wasting time on someone lying for attention.

And if your enthusiasm gets a friend excited to play with you, you're both going to buy the game early to explore it together.

Your friend has no reason to explore with you if they were being drawn in by fake leaks, because the fakes are going to be disproven before the game's release. The only reason to play is if they want to actually explore the game itself.

Again, it's really not about what's in the leaks but the ability to start a conversation.

And again, looking at the numbers on any site for Pokemon discussion will show that discussing fake leaks is not the majority of their conversations.

Edit: And because I just thought of some good examples- Gen 1 Pokegods and the Mew under the truck. Fake leaks are about the closest we get to playground rumors these days.

• These rumors came after the games' release, not before.
• These rumors were compelling because they offered something new to people already playing the game. If someone's not familiar with Pokemon, then "Hey there's a Mew under this secret truck" means nothing to them- it's the idea that there's a secret Pokemon where you've never been in your game that's interesting to people.
• They're called playground rumors for a reason- because they're usually shared by younger kids. That's not the sort of audience that's usually on 4Chan or reddit.

 

[Oriden]

Pretty much every "leaker/insider" has said something contradictory about the upcoming presents in the past few days

-Kelios said he thinks we're getting new forms for Dialga/Palka. Also says the games will be more less faithful than people think
-Centro saying that BDSP are near 1:1 faithful and that Legends will have very exciting elements to it
-Samus Hunter saying that nothing all that new will be shown for Legends, just more detailed gameplay
-Centro "teasing" sinnoh forms for Legends
-Lewtwo claiming he has information and everything the other "leakers" are saying is wrong


The only one of those I listed I consider somewhat reputable is Kelios and I think Dialga/Palkia having new forms is a dubious claim when we've already seen the box art, and the game isn't even made by gamefreak so new pokemon/forms in BDSP are not at all likely to happen anyways.

I'm kind of in just "wait and see" mode because the only real expectation I have with this presents is that the two games will look a bit nicer than they did on reveal. I don't feel that either game is likely to have something new and earth shattering because even Legends can just sell itself entirely on the premise of being an open world pokemon game. I AM however cautiously curious about that AZ domain that got trademarked the other day. He's definitely lived long enough to be alive during the era Legends takes place in and I could see him making a cameo, or perhaps even being the travelling professor as neat easter egg.

From what I can see, Kelios seems to just be speculating on those things anyway. The only leaks they mention having are just slight graphic improvements, nothing crazy.

These are the exact same conversations we have about leaks. The only difference is that someone's pretending their ideas are insider info.

But discussing it with a fake leak and thinking it might actually be real won't lead to the same disappointment when it's proven fake?

Again- how is this getting someone interested if they aren't already interested in the franchise? If they're not familiar with what Pokemon's usually like, why would they be interested in debating whether a leak seems true or not? They won't have any frame of reference for what sounds likely and what doesn't.

Take a look at this post on the Pokemon subreddit.
View attachment 149098

9 thousands upvotes, almost a thousand comments, just for speculation about what Pokemon wouldn't appear in a game set in the past. That sure looks like a lot of conversation to me.

Why is "here are some things I'd like to see in this game" more obnoxious than "look at this random internet rumor"? I think most people prefer honest enthusiasm to wasting time on someone lying for attention.

Your friend has no reason to explore with you if they were being drawn in by fake leaks, because the fakes are going to be disproven before the game's release. The only reason to play is if they want to actually explore the game itself.

And again, looking at the numbers on any site for Pokemon discussion will show that discussing fake leaks is not the majority of their conversations.

• These rumors came after the games' release, not before.
• These rumors were compelling because they offered something new to people already playing the game. If someone's not familiar with Pokemon, then "Hey there's a Mew under this secret truck" means nothing to them- it's the idea that there's a secret Pokemon where you've never been in your game that's interesting to people.
• They're called playground rumors for a reason- because they're usually shared by younger kids. That's not the sort of audience that's usually on 4Chan or reddit.

Oh good grief.

I'm not talking about specifically trying to rope in people who have zero interest in the franchise yet via leaks. I'm not talking about hardcore fans either. I'm talking about casuals who maybe like pokemon but haven't sold their soul to buying every game that comes out. People who don't need an introduction to the franchise but might need an excuse to buy a game. People who aren't on pokemon discussion forums and subreddits.

Speculating about what might be in a game with my own made-up bullshit is just writing a list of fanwishes that I know will never happen. My friends know it will never happen. That's not a conversation we'd often willingly enter into because it's not really all that fun to just randomly list the things you want but will never have. That just makes every game that comes out look disappointing.

Leaks, on the other hand, are fun because you don't know for sure that they aren't going to happen. You don't know where it came from, you don't know if it's real, but it's fun to discuss the possibility. It's guilt-free speculation. And it's less random to bring it up than to go "Hey guys, I know you're not hardcore into pokemon, but let's waste time talking about pokemon game ideas that will never happen!" You have to see a good leak to share a good leak, so you're working on the leaker's schedule, rather than desperately trying to start a conversation on nothing. That's why it's less obnoxious. You're sharing possible news versus hijacking a conversation to talk about your useless fan wants. And if it doesn't turn out to be true- well, if you and your friends are smart people, you all knew not to put blind faith into some random internet leak anyway (and just in case they're not, I am always sure to mention that it's unconfirmed), and it's way less disappointing to see some random stranger's wishlist unfulfilled than watching them not implement the game features that you've personally wanted for the umpteenth time.

Yet again, it's not about what is in a leak and compelling friends to play with you based on what's in one- a leak could have total obviously fake bullshit, but if it's really stupid and funny, it's just as good as any real one. The point is to just have something fun and exciting to talk about regarding the games between news drops.

And it's not like this has to be exclusive- fan speculation can still happen, fan wishlists can happen, people can still meme, but leaks contribute to the conversation too. When it comes to building the hype train and keeping the conversation flowing, every bit counts.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

I'm not talking about specifically trying to rope in people who have zero interest in the franchise yet via leaks. I'm not talking about hardcore fans either. I'm talking about casuals who maybe like pokemon but haven't sold their soul to buying every game that comes out. People who don't need an introduction to the franchise but might need an excuse to buy a game. People who aren't on pokemon discussion forums and subreddits.

Again, fake leaks are going to be disproven before the game's release. If their excuse to buy the game goes away before the game's release, then it's not actually winning them over.

And you keep bringing up this idea of a fake leak that makes it way out of Pokemon fan sites and into the mainstream and gets attention from casuals, but you can't list a single example. If fake leaks really gave the community that kind of benefit, it shouldn't be hard to find an example.

Speculating about what might be in a game with my own made-up bullshit is just writing a list of fanwishes that I know will never happen. My friends know it will never happen. That's not a conversation we'd often willingly enter into because it's not really all that fun to just randomly list the things you want but will never have. That just makes every game that comes out look disappointing.

And a fake leak that you enjoyed being proven fake doesn't have the same effect?

Leaks, on the other hand, are fun because you don't know for sure that they aren't going to happen. You don't know where it came from, you don't know if it's real, but it's fun to discuss the possibility. It's guilt-free speculation.

I have a hard time understanding how "These are my hopes, but I don't expect them all to come true" results in more guilt than "Here's a rumor that sounds cool, maybe it'll be true? Oh, it's not, sorry if you're disappointed". Shouldn't an honest conversation be more guilt-free than spreading a lie?

And it's less random to bring it up than to go "Hey guys, I know you're not hardcore into pokemon, but let's waste time talking about pokemon game ideas that will never happen!"

...That's literally what a fake leak is, fake ideas that will never happen. The only change is that you're sharing someone else's ideas instead of your own, and you're considering the idea that they might be real.

You have to see a good leak to share a good leak, so you're working on the leaker's schedule, rather than desperately trying to start a conversation on nothing.

Or you could just work on your own schedule, and bring it up when you have something you'd like to talk about with the game, and not start a conversation on nothing if you don't have anything to talk about?

That's why it's less obnoxious. You're sharing possible news versus hijacking a conversation to talk about your useless fan wants.

What a horrible way to view conversations with friends. Discussing your wants and interests isn't useless or obnoxious. Friends talk with each other about things they like all the time, that's normal. You shouldn't need a fake rumor to "justify" discussing your interest with a friend. (And unless the discussion was centered around Pokemon leaks, then you're "hijacking" the conversation by bringing a fake leak just as much as you are if you talk about your personal wants)

And if it doesn't turn out to be true- well, if you and your friends are smart people, you all knew not to put blind faith into some random internet leak anyway (and just in case they're not, I am always sure to mention that it's unconfirmed), and it's way less disappointing to see some random stranger's wishlist unfulfilled than watching them not implement the game features that you've personally wanted for the umpteenth time.

So, these fakes are both unsung heroes, generating hype for the franchise and bringing in players that were on the fence, but also no big deal, nobody really cared that much about them.

Yet again, it's not about what is in a leak and compelling friends to play with you based on what's in one- a leak could have total obviously fake bullshit, but if it's really stupid and funny, it's just as good as any real one.

You just said it would have been the fan's enthusiasm getting the friend interested in exploring the game, now people are convinced to buy a game because they laughed about an obviously fake rumor about it?

The point is to just have something fun and exciting to talk about regarding the games between news drops.

They're fun and exciting and might get a casual to buy the game if they weren't already, but also guilt-free and don't disappoint anyone when they turn out to be false, and sometimes you just laugh at them and that's it. These fakes really are all-purpose.

Again, what evidence is there that discussing a rumor that's never going to be part of the game months before its release helps the games sell better?

 

[Oriden]

Again, fake leaks are going to be disproven before the game's release. If their excuse to buy the game goes away before the game's release, then it's not actually winning them over.

And you keep bringing up this idea of a fake leak that makes it way out of Pokemon fan sites and into the mainstream and gets attention from casuals, but you can't list a single example. If fake leaks really gave the community that kind of benefit, it shouldn't be hard to find an example.

And a fake leak that you enjoyed being proven fake doesn't have the same effect?

I have a hard time understanding how "These are my hopes, but I don't expect them all to come true" results in more guilt than "Here's a rumor that sounds cool, maybe it'll be true? Oh, it's not, sorry if you're disappointed". Shouldn't an honest conversation be more guilt-free than spreading a lie?

...That's literally what a fake leak is, fake ideas that will never happen. The only change is that you're sharing someone else's ideas instead of your own, and you're considering the idea that they might be real.

Or you could just work on your own schedule, and bring it up when you have something you'd like to talk about with the game, and not start a conversation on nothing if you don't have anything to talk about?

What a horrible way to view conversations with friends. Discussing your wants and interests isn't useless or obnoxious. Friends talk with each other about things they like all the time, that's normal. You shouldn't need a fake rumor to "justify" discussing your interest with a friend. (And unless the discussion was centered around Pokemon leaks, then you're "hijacking" the conversation by bringing a fake leak just as much as you are if you talk about your personal wants)

So, these fakes are both unsung heroes, generating hype for the franchise and bringing in players that were on the fence, but also no big deal, nobody really cared that much about them.

You just said it would have been the fan's enthusiasm getting the friend interested in exploring the game, now people are convinced to buy a game because they laughed about an obviously fake rumor about it?

They're fun and exciting and might get a casual to buy the game if they weren't already, but also guilt-free and don't disappoint anyone when they turn out to be false, and sometimes you just laugh at them and that's it. These fakes really are all-purpose.

Again, what evidence is there that discussing a rumor that's never going to be part of the game months before its release helps the games sell better?

You are looking way too deep into this.

Leaks supply conversation fodder. That's it.

I'm viewing this as someone who's had to take Marketing classes- word-of-mouth is considered a free, indirect form of marketing. Therefor, conversation fodder is good. You want people to talk, you want repetition, you want it to stick in someone's head- that's marketing. When you talk about any product you like or are interested in, you're marketing. Therefor the content of the leak doesn't really matter, it's the fact that anyone is talking about the games, showing interest, and broadly appealing or humorous leaks that gain decent attention aid in furthering the conversation. In ways, it can be a much more easily accessible conversation starter in that you don't have to generate the ideas yourself and it sparks a sort of temporary wonder and fascination.

In the grand scheme, any one leak may be just a drop in the bucket in regards to sales, but they aren't without merit. That's why I feel that it's really a shame that the well has been so dry, because that's gutted a whole avenue of potential talk.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

You are looking way too deep into this.

I'm not the one saying that someone making a fake internet rumor has increased sales for Pokemon games.

Leaks supply conversation fodder. That's it. I'm viewing this as someone who's had to take Marketing classes- word-of-mouth is considered a free, indirect form of marketing.

Then you should be aware that not all marketing is equally effective. That's how leaking is even a thing in the first place- because releasing every piece of information all at once isn't as effective as waiting to reveal things closer to release. The fact that fakes can serve as conversation fodder doesn't prove that they're actually making significant contributions.

Therefor, conversation fodder is good. You want people to talk, you want repetition, you want it to stick in someone's head- that's marketing.

Yes, and not all conversation fodder is of the same quality. If you want it to stick in someone's head, a conversation that's easily brushed off isn't good at that- so if people are really just saying "Eh, I wasn't that invested anyways" when a fake is disproven, then it wasn't really sticking with them, was it? Saying that fake leaks are making underappreciated contributions just because they could be contributing to marketing doesn't make sense when there's no evidence that they actually are.

When you talk about any product you like or are interested in, you're marketing. Therefor the content of the leak doesn't really matter, it's the fact that anyone is talking about the games, showing interest, and broadly appealing or humorous leaks that gain decent attention aid in furthering the conversation.

But again, leaks are primarily discussed by fans that are already involved in other Pokemon-related conversations. The only examples of these making their way to more casual fans that you've been able to point to are a hypothetical friend group looking for news as an excuse to discuss it, and playground rumors that came after the game's release prior to the kinds of online fakes we've been discussing.

In ways, it can be a much more easily accessible conversation starter in that you don't have to generate the ideas yourself and it sparks a sort of temporary wonder and fascination.

And when the fake is disproven, that wonder and fascination either turns to disappointment or is just casually dismissed, neither of which are good outcomes if you wanted positive attention on the game.

In the grand scheme, any one leak may be just a drop in the bucket in regards to sales, but they aren't without merit. That's why I feel that it's really a shame that the well has been so dry, because that's gutted a whole avenue of potential talk.

Again, not all conversation fodder is equal. Without any tangible benefits shown from these fakes, we could just as easily say it's a shame that we're not getting more detailed speculation on the plot or characters like we have in the past- and those have the added benefit of not giving platforms to people who spread misinformation, either.

 

[Oriden]

Alright, just gonna signal here that I'm not going to derail this thread any further in regards to the topic of the value of fake leaks.

 

[Esiouqrut]

I meant, there's no way we're not getting more than that in the presentation.

Yeah, I was-half joking there.
Sorry if it's not that clear.

 

[nickdt]

Pretty much every "leaker/insider" has said something contradictory about the upcoming presents in the past few days

-Kelios said he thinks we're getting new forms for Dialga/Palka. Also says the games will be more less faithful than people think
-Centro saying that BDSP are near 1:1 faithful and that Legends will have very exciting elements to it
-Samus Hunter saying that nothing all that new will be shown for Legends, just more detailed gameplay
-Centro "teasing" sinnoh forms for Legends
-Lewtwo claiming he has information and everything the other "leakers" are saying is wrong


The only one of those I listed I consider somewhat reputable is Kelios and I think Dialga/Palkia having new forms is a dubious claim when we've already seen the box art, and the game isn't even made by gamefreak so new pokemon/forms in BDSP are not at all likely to happen anyways.

I'm kind of in just "wait and see" mode because the only real expectation I have with this presents is that the two games will look a bit nicer than they did on reveal. I don't feel that either game is likely to have something new and earth shattering because even Legends can just sell itself entirely on the premise of being an open world pokemon game. I AM however cautiously curious about that AZ domain that got trademarked the other day. He's definitely lived long enough to be alive during the era Legends takes place in and I could see him making a cameo, or perhaps even being the travelling professor as neat easter egg.

I mean, that AZ trademark can also be for Pokemon Masters or maybe we get an AZ TCG set with an AZ card and the Fossils in it.

 

[Oriden]

Well hot damn, guess that vague regional variant leak was legit. I am so much more excited about Legends now. XD

And the graphics did look much better this time around!

Not sure if today's news confirmed any other leaks? Considering we've got so few of them anyway (watch the fakes all come out of the woodwork now that new pokemon have been confirmed, though).

Definitely credit to Centro this time and another blow for Samus Hunter.

 

[Esserise]

IIRC Centro's had a good track record ever since they spilled a ton of The Crown Tundra stuff last year.

 

[Esiouqrut]

Spoiler: Image

This is more plausible to be true as well.

 

[Cainhxrst]

I was pleasantly suprised by that. It . . .really, really exceeded my expectations. It looks more pokemon hunter than it does BOTW but I'm not a huge fan of the latter so I don't mind.

It's actually pretty insane that we're finally seeing brand new, non-mythical/legendary mid-generation pokemon added. Coupled with the Hisuian forms, we could see quite a bit of new pokemon/designs in this game.

 

[Phosphene]

Spoiler: Image

This is more plausible to be true as well.

Spoiler

"Blacked out silhouettes are... 'Relic Forms' of current Pokémon."

The regional variants are referred to as Hisuian [Pokémon] on the website and at least one of the leaked silhouettes they're referring to is Wyrdeer. No mention of relic forms at all to my knowledge, so I'm a bit skeptical. Especially considering this leak appears to be riding the coattails of whoever leaked the images (I believe it was Centro?).

Edit: Also, seems odd how they mention a late June Presents date but we actually got our Presents now in mid-August. Sure, they mention that it hasn't "got a final slot yet" but that seems like a way to cover themselves.

 

[Phosphene]

Apologies for the double post, but...

Spoiler

This screenshot was leaked some time ago and as you can see in the bottom row there's silhouettes of Wyrdeer and Hisuian Braviary with the little ride thing, so I think it's fair to say these are legitimate. There's also a third silhouette in the middle, thoughts on what our mystery 'mon could be?

 

[Esserise]

Spoiler

"Blacked out silhouettes are... 'Relic Forms' of current Pokémon."

The regional variants are referred to as Hisuian [Pokémon] on the website and at least one of the leaked silhouettes they're referring to is Wyrdeer. No mention of relic forms at all to my knowledge, so I'm a bit skeptical. Especially considering this leak appears to be riding the coattails of whoever leaked the images (I believe it was Centro?).

Edit: Also, seems odd how they mention a late June Presents date but we actually got our Presents now in mid-August. Sure, they mention that it hasn't "got a final slot yet" but that seems like a way to cover themselves.

Also, 18 Plates?

(Though to be fair, such an idea was actually proposed right here on this site just a few pages ago, and I liked that post, so it's not that I think it would be impossible for them to create a "Normal Plate" in order to facilitate this kind of thing. I just think it's probably still worth factoring in when trying to assess the credibility of an alleged leak.)

 

[Oriden]

Apologies for the double post, but...

Spoiler

This screenshot was leaked some time ago and as you can see in the bottom row there's silhouettes of Wyrdeer and Hisuian Braviary with the little ride thing, so I think it's fair to say these are legitimate. There's also a third silhouette in the middle, thoughts on what our mystery 'mon could be?

Oooooh... knowing what we do about the other two now, it'd kind of be fun to try to guess if it's a variant or evo for anyone we know.