Jaye
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2012
- Messages
- 450
- Reaction score
- 1,043
And even worse, she is already starting as a Mary Sue (I don´t like this expression, but I think it fits in this case since she is starting the series with a super duper rare item).
Possessing a rare item does not make a character a Mary Sue. By this logic, the majority of characters in fiction are Mary Sues, which completely defeats the purpose of having such a label in the first place.
Liko's pendant is the equivalent to the One Ring in Lord of the Rings, the nine-tailed fox inside Naruto, or the Four-Star Dragon Ball Goku owned. It's an object with a mystery and importance that allures people to it, which came into the possession of a character though circumstances outside their control, and exists specifically to drive plot events and character development. Owning the thing doesn't make a character somehow perfect or the object of wish-fulfilment, as Mary Sues tend to be, as this kind of set-up is extremely common in fiction.
For Liko to be a Mary Sue in this scenario, she'd have to be the only one to know about the pendant and it's true purpose, the only who knew where to find it, the only one who could use its power, etc. Nothing we've seen so far suggests any of that. It suggests the opposite. She was given it by somebody else and has no idea what its purpose is.
I don´t want to sound sexist, but, at least for now, she is nothing but a gender swapped Ash.
The brief footage we've seen shows her to be very different from Ash. Thus far, she appears to have doubt and hesitation, whereas Ash had confidence and acted on it from day one. Liko has yet to express any goal or ambition, while Ash shouted his Pokemon Master dream to the rooftops. Liko appears to be treating Sprigatito well early on, while Ash literally dragged Pikachu up the road using a clothesline. Liko seems to have a life and hobbies outside of Pokemon, while Ash was utterly obssessed with them.
The only similarity I've seen, is a willingness to put themselves at risk when the moment calls for it, which is just a generic trait most protagonists share.
It´s like the producers thought being a girl is already different enough. Add to this the fact that Pokemon is a show predominantly watched by boys and it´s a huge risk that won´t have the payoff they expect. Girls won´t start watching the anime just because it has a girl protagonist and, the ones that will won´t be in a huge enough number. Also, there are lots of girl animes inu Japan like the merchandise behemot Precure who is also running for 20 years and who girls will be more interested in bying products from. Also, I doubt the parents wallet is endless. There´s just to much competion in the girl market, especilly since it also has it´s own long estabelished franchises. Again, I don´t want to sound sexist, but someone has to adress the elephant in the room. There are also lots of boys who are fans and will stop watching beacause of the girl protagonist. I have first hand accounts of this as I wrote about in a previous post. Japan is still a country whith unfortunetly very defined limits between a boy and a girl. If the anime starts being called girlsh by the «boss» kids at school it´s over. Entire classrooms will stop watching, It´s a documented phenomenom that will undoutfully happen. I guess this is the real (and honestly only) reason for Roy´s existence.
The protagonist's gender is secondary to the overall tone and premise of a show when it comes to audience appeal. Your claim Liko's gender is an attempt to snatch up more female viewers simply isn't supported by the marketing we've seen so far, which has presented Horizons as a show aimed at everyone with no specific gender in mind. As opposed to Precure, a show very much designed for young girls to watch. Simply having a girl on the front cover isn't enough to determine which audiences they're targetting.
If Horizons was changing the tone, the setting, premise, themes etc. to target girls, then there'd be a case, but once again, there's nothing in the marketing suggesting this is the case. They've mostly pushed the adventure and mystery, two of the most universal genres in fiction.
For those calling me sexist about Liko, I will just try to explain my opinion with some more points. Right now she feels like a Mary Sue, but that can change. For those posts about Ash I will not lose much of my time because we will agree to disagree. Meeting Ho-oh doesn´t make him special since it never gave him any powers. Team Rocket started following him because they saw the raw potential in Pikachu, not because he had a special pendant that obviously will have a special power inside. The only thing where I agree that Ash is special is the aura. However, that wasn´t part of his character since the beginning. It came form a movie and, because it was popular, it made it´s way into the series proper. Also, to me, there are to types of special in fiction: those who gain power from the inside of their hearts, from their bonds with others (the case of Ash and Pikachu) and those I hate who are the ones who gain something special from an external force, like Naruto (he has special genes) or in this case Liko with her special pendant. Another point I have against Liko is somethng I already noticed and that my cousin´t students also pointed out. She looks very identical to a character from Delicious Party Pretty Cure called Kokone. She says during the announcement of the new series, one of the things she saw on social medi was people pojnting out this similarity and doing somethings like the «Can we have Kokone? We got Kokone at home» meme. That series aired during 2022. The fact that, im my eyes, the new series appears to be a last minute decision and her design being very similar to such a recent character from another popular franchise (a character who ranked very high in viewers preference during that season), makes it look like a case of putting together a would be marketable desing as fast as they could.
The main issue here is that you're simply way off base about Liko. Admitting to a bias against her doesn't change how faulty your argument is.
Functionally, what is the difference between Team Rocket following Ash for his special Pikachu (who you earlier described as "normal", incidentally) and the Explorers targeting Liko because she has a special pendant? There is no difference. You have two antagonistic groups targeting an otherwise unremarkable protagonist for something they possess. Why is it now a problem for Liko, besides the fact you simply dislike the character? The pedant isn't even giving her special powers in the slightest. What is she even gaining from it that's so special?
And while this isn't a Naruto thread, can I also say you've entirely missed the point about his character? Yes, he had a lot of power from external forces, but to master those powers he had to depend on his friends and loved ones. Again, I ask, what is the difference between a character like Naruto learning Sage Mode from the toads or how to use his tailed beast from Killer B, and Ash learning a bunch of new moves and battle strategies from numerous other trainers? Hell, Ash-Greninja was a thing, and that was a power that came less from his heart and more from his rear end.
What this comes down to is, everything you've argued against Liko's existence, can also apply to Ash, but you're wilfully ignoring that part of the argument. There is a very obvious double standard at play here.
Last edited: