Pokemon Journeys: Thoughts So Far

[LuxrayOfTheWild]

You know, another big issue I have is the whole question of why. Mewtwo questioned this and Goh's response is catching every Pokemon would help him understand every Pokemon and their DNA, which would help him get Mew, but my problem is how is that gonna even help him get just one Pokemon? It was kind of a convoluted reasoning for having Goh catch everything other than we need to promote Pokemon Go in the anime, which I don't think should have been done in this way. He and Ash might study Pokemon for Professor Cerise, but can't they just do that without the captures?

It would have made more sense and solve a lot of issues if they just didn't decide Pokemon Go needs anime representation and had him just travel while studying all these Pokemon. Study their habits, diets, abilities, battle strengths, ect. It justifies the world travel aspect just as equally as his current goal methods and it still gives the writers the chance to show off every Pokemon. They could have taken that approach while still having the goal of catching Mew intact. It would have helped if they took a similar approach to Crystal too and actually show that they're for research purposes, which isn't great, but better.

 

[SlyGecko]

You know, another big issue I have is the whole question of why. Mewtwo questioned this and Goh's response is catching every Pokemon would help him understand every Pokemon and their DNA, which would help him get Mew, but my problem is how is that gonna even help him get just one Pokemon? It was kind of a convoluted reasoning for having Goh catch everything other than we need to promote Pokemon Go in the anime, which I don't think should have been done in this way. He's not actively studying anything about them that would uncover any mysteries to Mew.

It would have made more sense and solve a lot of issues if they just didn't decide Pokemon Go needs anime representation and had him just travel while studying all these Pokemon. Study their habits, diets, abilities, battle strengths, ect. It justifies the world travel aspect just as equally as his current goal methods and it still gives the writers the chance to show off every Pokemon. They could have taken that approach while still having the goal of catching Mew intact.

That would work much better than randomly catching everything. Heck they could of even made it that studies them to decide which Pokemon would be best to help him catch mew. Like the main purpose of the bug catching episode could of been him studying all the Kanto bug and decided that Scyther is the one that will help the most.

 

[LuxrayOfTheWild]

That would work much better than randomly catching everything. Heck they could of even made it that studies them to decide which Pokemon would be best to help him catch mew. Like the main purpose of the bug catching episode could of been him studying all the Kanto bug and decided that Scyther is the one that will help the most.

Yeah like if it wasn't for the writers feeling the need to promote Pokemon Go, it could have worked. Though another thought I had while still keeping the Go aspect is if they really needed to, what if they just had Goh release Pokemon when he's registered them in the dex, it still would have been better than the current approach. He's only released like one Pokemon and that was because he already had it a member of that evolutionary line. He could have done that while still deciding to keep those like Scizor, Cubone, or Raichu.

 

[swiftgallade46]

Yeah like if it wasn't for the writers feeling the need to promote Pokemon Go, it could have worked. Though another thought I had while still keeping the Go aspect is if they really needed to, what if they just had Goh release Pokemon when he's registered them in the dex, it still would have been better than the current approach. He's only released like one Pokemon and that was because he already had it a member of that evolutionary line. He could have done that while still deciding to keep those like Scizor, Cubone, or Raichu.

How would releasing them have been better than keeping them at the lab?

 

[SlyGecko]

How would releasing them have been better than keeping them at the lab?

It's not like they magically forgot how to find food once they were caught. Besides, does he really need multiple members of the same evolutionary family?

 

[LuxrayOfTheWild]

How would releasing them have been better than keeping them at the lab?

One of the biggest common complaints people have is his captures have been reduced to background characters we hardly ever see, or get no development. By releasing the majority, it could have solved the quantity over quality issue and given the writers a small group to actually focus on. He studies them, catches them, then releases them, while keeping a few that he bonded with prior. Still not the best, but solves one of the biggest complaints.

 

[Kurolegacy]

How would releasing them have been better than keeping them at the lab?

It would solve a couple of issues such as that the Pokémon are basically moving background with no real purpose and allowed them to keep the quality over quantity aspect by having that while he captures most Pokemon for research/Pokédex registration, the ones he’d keep would be the ones that would actively be a part of his team and develop traditionally.

 

[swiftgallade46]

It's not like they magically forgot how to find food once they were caught. Besides, does he really need multiple members of the same evolutionary family?

Apologies, but I genuinely don’t understand. What do either of these things have to do with my question?

One of the biggest common complaints people have is his captures have been reduced to background characters we hardly ever see, or get no development. By releasing the majority, it could have solved the quantity over quality issue and given the writers a small group to actually focus on. He studies them, catches them, then releases them, while keeping a few that he bonded with prior. Still not the best, but solves one of the biggest complaints.

It would solve a couple of issues such as that the Pokémon are basically moving background with no real purpose and allowed them to keep the quality over quantity aspect by having that while he captures most Pokemon for research/Pokédex registration, the ones he’d keep would be the ones that would actively be a part of his team and develop traditionally.

Is there really any active harm in them being background characters, though? I guess from my perspective, I just don’t see how releasing them and never seeing them again is any better than them just being at the lab and having a chance to appear later on even for a very minor role.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I think that Goh releasing the majority of his Pokemon after registering them in his Pokedex would honestly be much worse. That would be treating them more like collectables or check boxes to mark on his way to Mew. People already act as if Goh doesn't care about his Pokemon or that he treats them like objects, so releasing them after getting their registrations wouldn't help with those notions. If anything, it would just be more fuel to the fire and probably make people hate Goh more, so I don't think it would really solve any kind of issues with Goh or his Pokemon.

Plus, I really don't see how that would be any better than just having them live in a lab. At least that does make it possible for them to appear again, even if it is just minor roles. I also don't really see the problem with making most of Goh's Pokemon minor characters at best, especially when a lot of Ash's Pokemon aren't handled significantly better either. I can understand not liking the decision, but it was pretty clear early on to me that Goh's captures weren't going to be treated like new additions to the main cast and I was fine with that. While we don't see Goh interact with a lot of his Pokemon, the clear signs that he does care about them and has taken care of them at the labs are one of the reasons why I think Goh is likable, so I wouldn't be in favor of getting rid of that in favor of Goh releasing them once he got their registration.

 

[Sobblelelle]

Answering a couple of these here because they don't fit the EP#62 thread.

I agree, but at the same time it does feel like nothing exceptionally challenging has gotten in his way YET. I don't hate Goh at all, but it would be nice if he took a few more 'L's (the type that hurts).

I am curious how you would challenge Goh? While I agree that it would be nice to see him overcome some kind of challenge, his current endeavors have been fairly low stakes. The majority of his pokemon are first stage and when they are not he typically battles in order to catch them. Though I would be interested in seeing Goh actually track and have to deal with the first stage pokemon evading him, even if they don't battle.

If you want to look at Goh taking an 'L' and possibly growing from it, look at Zapdos. While I had issues with the structure of the episode and think that a powerful single stage non-legendary pokemon could have been used instead of Zapdos, or the episode could have been focused on Flygon instead of Raboot, it is an example of a time when Goh failed with big stakes. As an Ash style arc Goh would face Zapdos-lose-maybe train-face Zapdos again-catch Zapdos. Though unlike with Ash this failure has no follow up.

That's not actually true. Even minor characters get some semblance of personality or impact, no matter which story you read or which show/anime you watch. These pokemon, though they could be used to help Goh reach his goal towards Mew are not always given a major impact. Goh caught all the bug type pokemon in Kanto in one episode, yet he struggles to catch a Dewgong in another. This is as inconsistent as Pikachu, in all honesty. Honestly, the only "minor character" pokemon of Goh's that I can think of with a lot of personality is Raichu.

What sets Raichu appart from say; Dewgong, Scyther, Golurk, Pinsir, Misdreavus, or Darmanitan?

You know, another big issue I have is the whole question of why. Mewtwo questioned this and Goh's response is catching every Pokemon would help him understand every Pokemon and their DNA, which would help him get Mew, but my problem is how is that gonna even help him get just one Pokemon? It was kind of a convoluted reasoning for having Goh catch everything other than we need to promote Pokemon Go in the anime, which I don't think should have been done in this way. He and Ash might study Pokemon for Professor Cerise, but can't they just do that without the captures?

Catching random pokemon certainly doesn't lead to capturing Mew in any way, however I have always taken Goh's catching of pokemon as a means to bond with them post capture. In the same way a trainer defeats and captures a wild pokemon, then bonds with them as they grow stronger together, Goh captures pokemon and then bonds with them as he raises them. His ultimate goal being to catch and form a bond with Mew, who he see's as the most mysterious pokemon.

It would have made more sense and solve a lot of issues if they just didn't decide Pokemon Go needs anime representation and had him just travel while studying all these Pokemon. Study their habits, diets, abilities, battle strengths, ect. It justifies the world travel aspect just as equally as his current goal methods and it still gives the writers the chance to show off every Pokemon. They could have taken that approach while still having the goal of catching Mew intact. It would have helped if they took a similar approach to Crystal too and actually show that they're for research purposes, which isn't great, but better.

Though it does seem that they have chosen to promote Pokemon GO through the anime, so it wouldn't make sense to remove the catching portion. I do agree that we do not get enough research with our research fellows.

Yeah like if it wasn't for the writers feeling the need to promote Pokemon Go, it could have worked. Though another thought I had while still keeping the Go aspect is if they really needed to, what if they just had Goh release Pokemon when he's registered them in the dex, it still would have been better than the current approach. He's only released like one Pokemon and that was because he already had it a member of that evolutionary line. He could have done that while still deciding to keep those like Scizor, Cubone, or Raichu.

The whole draw of pokemon GO as opposed to something like ranger is in catching and keeping multiple pokemon. Not to mention that Goh's goal is to catch pokemon with the intention to bond with them. Could some of those pokemon express the interest to leave him after bonding? of course, but there is no reason that that needs to be the case.

It's not like they magically forgot how to find food once they were caught. Besides, does he really need multiple members of the same evolutionary family?

This has happened on 3 occasions. Each time he caught the pokemon from the same line in a single episode, and in the Diglett episode he even released Dugtrio. Given how isolated the events are, and the fact that Goh has shown no interest in capturing the prevolutions of one of his evolved pokemon (outside of branching evolutions), I don't believe that the writers plan to give him a living dex, and will continue to give him first stages that then evolve.

I do think that if Goh had a rule where he only caught first stage pokemon, it could be a great limiting factor to the plot, and open up plenty of plot opportunities without bringing up Goh wanting to catch these pokemon. Even with such a rule in place they could still have some pokemon request to be caught after bonding with Goh in the classic fashion.

One of the biggest common complaints people have is his captures have been reduced to background characters we hardly ever see, or get no development. By releasing the majority, it could have solved the quantity over quality issue and given the writers a small group to actually focus on. He studies them, catches them, then releases them, while keeping a few that he bonded with prior. Still not the best, but solves one of the biggest complaints.

Goh does have a core team that has focus, namely the Galar starters, with a few of his other pokemon having more prominent roles than the others. How, for example, would Goh releasing his Weedle benefit the other characters and the rest of his pokemon? Weedle isn't diverting screentime away from anyone, so if it isn't damaging the plot, then I fail to really see the issue?

Unless you are saying that as pokemon of a main character, Goh's pokemon are being done a disservice by not being more prominent, and the show not making them so is a sign that he should have fewer?

 

[Jewel the Quaxly]

What sets Raichu appart from say; Dewgong, Scyther, Golurk, Pinsir, Misdreavus, or Darmanitan?

Hm, that's actually a good point. I had forgotten about them, in all honesty.

I honestly think that the main reason people don't like Goh is his goal. Like, he catches Mew, now what? It's not as if its a career(like the pokemon doctors, gym leaders, coordinators, and performers thing with all the previous main characters) nor is it vague enough to be a drawn-out goal like Ash's(pokemon master). It's a set goal, but there's no aftermath or idea of a "next step", unlike the other set goals in the series which all are things that can have a "next step"-those are all CAREERS. Goh became a trainer to catch Mew. But what is he going to do once he achieves that goal? There's no way to figure it out, or even draw it out so its a vague goal(again, like Ash's) so the goal itself falls flat. And since said goal is the main driving force for Goh's character...his minimal likability is drawn from that.

 

[SlyGecko]

If only they didn't make Goh entire goal revolve around catching ever Pokemon then the whole Goh debate wouldn't happen.

 

[swiftgallade46]

If only they didn't make Goh entire goal revolve around catching ever Pokemon then the whole Goh debate wouldn't happen.

Eh, probably untrue. There are going to be people who dislike him either way. There’s also plenty of people who like his catching goal.

 

[jbmasta]

Since Goh’s captures are at the Cerise Park, why not show Professor Cerise or the aides developing a connection to some of them? It gives them more to do than exposition and does something with the Pokemon.

 

[Sobblelelle]

Hm, that's actually a good point. I had forgotten about them, in all honesty.

I honestly think that the main reason people don't like Goh is his goal. Like, he catches Mew, now what? It's not as if its a career(like the pokemon doctors, gym leaders, coordinators, and performers thing with all the previous main characters) nor is it vague enough to be a drawn-out goal like Ash's(pokemon master). It's a set goal, but there's no aftermath or idea of a "next step", unlike the other set goals in the series which all are things that can have a "next step"-those are all CAREERS. Goh became a trainer to catch Mew. But what is he going to do once he achieves that goal? There's no way to figure it out, or even draw it out so its a vague goal(again, like Ash's) so the goal itself falls flat. And since said goal is the main driving force for Goh's character...his minimal likability is drawn from that.

I assume he'd just go research full time considering he was already interested in researching Pokémon before encountering Mew. The show is definitely light on the research side of our fellows.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

I am curious how you would challenge Goh? While I agree that it would be nice to see him overcome some kind of challenge, his current endeavors have been fairly low stakes. The majority of his pokemon are first stage and when they are not he typically battles in order to catch them. Though I would be interested in seeing Goh actually track and have to deal with the first stage pokemon evading him, even if they don't battle.

When his endeavours were high stakes (Golurk and many more), he didn’t face any issues at all. The first stagers aren’t the issue. The sudden power boost is the issue.

If you want to look at Goh taking an 'L' and possibly growing from it, look at Zapdos. While I had issues with the structure of the episode and think that a powerful single stage non-legendary pokemon could have been used instead of Zapdos, or the episode could have been focused on Flygon instead of Raboot, it is an example of a time when Goh failed with big stakes. As an Ash style arc Goh would face Zapdos-lose-maybe train-face Zapdos again-catch Zapdos. Though unlike with Ash this failure has no follow up.

How did Gou grow after not getting Zapdos? Legit question.

 

[KenzeyEevee]

Some ep really let me feel like a downgrade from older series

 

[Enzo]

I think that the real issue is cuz Goh's goal is that it's something flawed as a concept from the very beginning.

Like, his goal is to catch Mew. Okay. Then why exactly does he needs to capture every single Pokémon to get to Mew???

Like, why the need to physically capture every single Pokemon in existence to get Mew? How does that correlate to his goal/dream? What, is he gonna complete the entire Pokédex and Mew will just magically appear out of thin air and will just gift itself to Goh?

It's also funny how Mewtwo of all people (?) was the one to actually question his goal and raise this point, and yet they never really dived into that a lot.

I'm not to keen on this world tour aspect anymore now after almost a year and half into the series, but in all honesty, Goh shouldn't have captured all those Pokemon and instead focused solely on finding Mew, and evolving as a person through Ash, his own Pokemon, and the people he meets along the way. They should've went all out in this ''research fellow'' thing and actually have him study Pokemon and learn from them instead of capturing everything he sees. Maybe he could be even become an professor in the future, which would also make use of his ''book smart'' thing.

And regarding the whole ''Pokemon GO'' being represented in the anime, I actually talked about this in a older thread but I cant find it rn, but, when you really consider the impact that game had, and the sheer amount of money it made, it's pretty clear that the higher ups wouldn't want for GO to just be a couple of references, one or two minor characters and maybe a few visual aesthetic changes. I mean, a character literally named Goh, that goes around the world, capturing a bunch of Pokemon with similar mechanics to the mobile game? I'm not claiming that JN and Goh are just walking promos for the game or anything, but acting as if the higher ups didn't pulled a few strings so GO has a bigger impact in the main series layout strikes me as naivete tbh.

 

[Sobblelelle]

Like, why the need to physically capture every single Pokemon in existence to get Mew? How does that correlate to his goal/dream? What, is he gonna complete the entire Pokédex and Mew will just magically appear out of thin air and will just gift itself to Goh?

I have always taken the 2 to be separate parts of a similar goal, he wants to catch all Pokémon, and Mew is the Pokémon he wants to catch most, but catching the other Pokémon doesn't actually contribute to catching Mew. He only came up with that justification after his first catching spree.

The writers probably just wanted to make it seem like he was making steps towards his end goal like Ash. Outside of the Intro, you rarely hear that Goh has any special interest in Mew, and isn't just trying to catch them all.

When his endeavours were high stakes (Golurk and many more), he didn’t face any issues at all. The first stagers aren’t the issue. The sudden power boost is the issue.

He caught Golurk in a raid battle though?

I know that people consider the Suicune and Grookey episodes to be contrived, but which other Pokémon captures do you have an issue with, he hasn't exactly caught allot of strong ones?

Darmanitan doesn't really make sense, Pinsir's personality seems to do a 180, Ariados? (I think it should have been a Spinarak instead).

How did Gou grow after not getting Zapdos? Legit question.

That was sort of my point. With Ash failure means a rematch and growth is usually coming, but with Goh, many 'failures' don't get follow up. Consider this, how many Pokémon that Goh has failed to catch have we seen him try to catch again?

Let's exclude random encounters, so he doesn't worry about Silicobra, GalarFetch'd, Grubin, Cofragius, etc. just like Ash isn't looking for the ep. 36 randos.

Slowpoke/king were in a filler episode.

Episodes 22 and 50, he shows little to no interest in catching any of the many wild pokemon that he doesn't have.

Dragonite/Dratini and Gengar/Ghastly? He even pioneered the Dragonite expedition, knows where they are, but never tried to return. Though because they are on Ash's team no one really expects him to catch something from those lines.

The Pokémon egg plotline was dropped.

Mewtwo and Zapdos? Of course I don't expect him to capture Mewtwo, but Zapdos hasn't been brought up since its episode (so far) and is in a similar tier to Suicune. Unlike Ash looking for Bea for a rematch, we get no progression from Goh towards overcoming Zapdos.

I think the only missed opportunity that has been brought up again was Goh wanting another Wurmple/ Silcoon after he got 3 Cascoon, but even that hasn't been brought up since episode 22.

Thinking about it now, I think what might contribute to Goh seeming too competent is that while his character progressing and Ash's PWC goal are progressing linearly, his catching Pokémon goal is tackled more episodically, so a capture either happens or it doesn't, and if there is a pokemon they want him to have, any set back needs to occur within the runtime of the episode.

 

[Islander Princess]

Since Goh’s captures are at the Cerise Park, why not show Professor Cerise or the aides developing a connection to some of them? It gives them more to do than exposition and does something with the Pokemon.

I'd actually love to see an episode or even a few like this. I wasn't sure about Professor Cerise or the assistants at the beginning of Journeys, but they've all really grown on me and I quite enjoy their characters. It'd be fun to see them interacting with all of the lab Pokémon, maybe even have Chloe join in when she gets home from school or something like that.

One thing I have liked about the anime in recent years is that they've started to do a much better job incorporating and developing side characters. A scenario like the one you mentioned would not only be interesting, but another great way to continue doing that.