Review S11 EP15: Crossing the Battle Line!

[Shift]

That's because - and especially in Pikachu's case - those Pokemon have said their names enough times (without anyone overlapping) that PUSA can simply use stock audio. In fact, Ikue Otani never recorded her voice for Mastermind of Mirage Pokemon, the producers merely used stock audio. I also recall 4Kids once filling in Pikachu's voice with Ikue Otani, which supports my idea.

Wow, I really wanted to try proving you guys wrong, but looking through my comparisons, you might just be right. I compared Paul's Electabuzz in both versions of this ep, and found they said different things in each during times another voice overlapped it; while it was eating that berry, and while it stared in awe watching the training. It seems they pulled clips from it's few appearences these past episodes, and I'd been totally fooled...

I guess there really IS a rational behind everything. First the music, now these voices.

 

[Yash]

I guess there really IS a rational behind everything. First the music, now these voices.

Well, to be honest, I'm not buying the music argument. In the Butch and Cassidy episode for example, PUSA replaced the Sinnoh battle theme and the Team Rocket motto music, pieces which we've heard dozens of times before (and in the case of the Team Rocket motto, within that same episode), or By Your Side and Aaron's theme in the last episode - unless PUSA has to pay each time they use the music (which I doubt, since they've replaced Japanese music before with other Japanese music), it's very obvious that PUSA has the rights to this music. Not to mention that even if it is true, how 4Kids could acquire nearly all of the original music back when they were just a small company getting their feet wet and a giant corporation like PUSA can't is beyond me.

 

[Crax]

Is it only me or are they lowering the music volume on the japanese bgm in the dub? i saw the sub then saw the dub of this ep, and all aaron-pieces was really low in comparison to the other voices in the dub, even if i pulled the volume up.

 

[Ino-Chan]

I saw the episode today (I recorded it), and I thought it was pretty good. I loved the animation.

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Sadly, I didn't like Melaye's voice at all. It sounded to old for her.

 

[beast2025]

I saw the episode today (I recorded it), and I thought it was pretty good. I loved the animation.

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Sadly, I didn't like Melaye's voice at all. It sounded to old for her.

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Sadly I must agree with you... i was very dissapointed with rachel's performance...

 

[Musashi]

Is it only me or are they lowering the music on the japanese bgm in the dub? i saw the sub then saw the dub of this ep, and all aaron-pieces was really low in comparison to the other voicesin the dub, even if i pulled the volume up.

It's not just you. This has been going on with the dub for awhile now.

 

[Crax]

Mkay. That really sucks though..

*typo fixd in first post*

 

[peno]

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Ash and James had bad voices. Maylene sounded great.

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Yes, James souds too close to Eric Stuart's James to my liking. Hope it were only one time excess, not new pattern for voicing James.
Ash were as bad as usual, but I starting to ignore it, which is the only thing I can do, since there obviously nothing to persuade PUSA to change his voice :-(

I believe they did. It was more or less a similar pitch as Maylene's.

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So, it is possible Lillis voices Meditate back in AG? If so, I wonder why they didn't use her now. Or why they at least disn't use the same voice as in Movie 9 where Meditite sounds good IMO.

Everytime I heard the referee, I kept thinking "Why is the show ending already??" Heh, it's like he's concluding what happened and end the episode right there. That's what happens when you listen to narrator voices do other voices.

Yes, and it didn't really help that at the end of this episode, you hear different Narrator :sweatlol:

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There's something about Reggie's voice that makes me want to say that whoever chose it made the right choice because it sounds similar to Paul's...a sibling relation

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Well, Julian Rebolledo were still credited at the end of this episode, while no Paul for him. I honestly think he were voicing Reggie too.

This was a great episode, the Japanese version had some people confused as if Dawn was changing her career choice to Gyms which was really not the case, she pretty much did this to only boost Maylene's confidence.

This is an example as to why its good we don't have two people doing Gyms on the show. Seeing this once or so is fine, but imagine how boring it would be to see both Ash and Dawn have to beat each Gym leader in a row? Sitting through each Gym leader like two or three times would be tiring and repetitive. Not to mention it wouldn't make as much sense for Dawn to beat Gym leaders that give Ash trouble.

Yes, it would be boring to see the same battles two times (even though Gym Leader still can uses different Pokémon in both battles, but whatever). But in my opinion, it would be great to have two main chractrs challenges Gym Leaders to Tag Battles. That honestly is my fan dream for next gen series, kept Dawn for contests and introduce new gen character (no matter if boy or girl) to do Tag Battles with Ash. But I'm getting off topic here.

That's because - and especially in Pikachu's case - those Pokemon have said their names enough times (without anyone overlapping) that PUSA can simply use stock audio. In fact, Ikue Otani never recorded her voice for Mastermind of Mirage Pokemon, the producers merely used stock audio. I also recall 4Kids once filling in Pikachu's voice with Ikue Otani, which supports my idea.

I don't know where you get that nonsense about Mastermind. It's obvious it were dubbed into Japanese and there's nothing for me to believe they do the dub after US dub. The fact US dub were released first is not relevant here.

Well, to be honest, I'm not buying the music argument. In the Butch and Cassidy episode for example, PUSA replaced the Sinnoh battle theme and the Team Rocket motto music, pieces which we've heard dozens of times before (and in the case of the Team Rocket motto, within that same episode), or By Your Side and Aaron's theme in the last episode - unless PUSA has to pay each time they use the music (which I doubt, since they've replaced Japanese music before with other Japanese music), it's very obvious that PUSA has the rights to this music. Not to mention that even if it is true, how 4Kids could acquire nearly all of the original music back when they were just a small company getting their feet wet and a giant corporation like PUSA can't is beyond me.

Yes, exactly my thoughts. And, AFAIK, both Chinese and Korean dubs of Pokémon keeps original BGM too. Do you really thinks they have more moneys to their dubs? I honestly doubt about it.

 

[Shift]

Well, to be honest, I'm not buying the music argument. In the Butch and Cassidy episode for example, PUSA replaced the Sinnoh battle theme and the Team Rocket motto music, pieces which we've heard dozens of times before (and in the case of the Team Rocket motto, within that same episode), or By Your Side and Aaron's theme in the last episode - unless PUSA has to pay each time they use the music (which I doubt, since they've replaced Japanese music before with other Japanese music), it's very obvious that PUSA has the rights to this music. Not to mention that even if it is true, how 4Kids could acquire nearly all of the original music back when they were just a small company getting their feet wet and a giant corporation like PUSA can't is beyond me.

I'm not even sure anymore. Maybe they pay for a certain number of tracks, regardless of which ones, for each ep or season. That group that's in charge of that music seems like it has something to do with it. All I know is that they're probably not replacing the music, and definitely not the voices, for the heck of it.

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Well, Julian Rebolledo were still credited at the end of this episode, while no Paul for him. I honestly think he were voicing Reggie too.

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Tom Wayland was also credited, and there were no other male roles beside the blackbelt (Pollock) and Lucario (Rogers). I'm pretty sure they just copied and pasted the last ep's credits to this one, and as Wayland's profile for some con linked from Bulbapedia specifically lists him as voicing Reggie, it has to be assumed he's the one who voiced him, not Reboledo.

 

[Rosakai]

Piplup lasted WAY too long. It was getting ridiculous how many attacks that thing withstood.

Yes, definitely! And the fact that Piplup only hit Lucario ONCE (whirlpool doesn't count because it didn't hurt Lucario; only trapped it) made it even worse. I don't think Lucario is an invincible god of a Pokemon like some people do, and I like Piplup, but still...Piplup should have fainted from the first point-blank Force Palm, if not sooner.

We also barely got to see Ambipom. :-(

Yeah...poor Ambipom's been getting the shaft ever since the trade, because Dawn likes to only use Piplup. It's a shame, especially since Ambipom is most likely Dawn's strongest Pokemon. I also think this episode proves that, despite however much she LIKES contests, Ambipom's true strength is in Gym battling.

I remember when this episode first aired in Japan, Ambipom was the only one I knew would win a battle-she was the only one of Dawn's Pokemon who knew what she was doing.

Dawn didn't do all that bad for her first gym battle, though.


Also, is it just me, or are Amibpom and Meditite voiced by the same person?

 

[peno]

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Tom Wayland was also credited, and there were no other male roles beside the blackbelt (Pollock) and Lucario (Rogers). I'm pretty sure they just copied and pasted the last ep's credits to this one, and as Wayland's profile for some con linked from Bulbapedia specifically lists him as voicing Reggie, it has to be assumed he's the one who voiced him, not Reboledo.

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You know Wayland were credited in many previous episodes where's no obvious role for him? He most likely voices some Pokémon they decides to credited (Gligar maybe?). I don't think, though, this is the case for Rebolledo and I don't think they credited him if he don't participated on this episode. And with all these people claiming Reggie's voice is simmilar to Paul's, I honestly doubt he can be voiced by anyone else but Rebolledo. I am THAT convinced about it, that I am even willing to correct Bulbapedia about this issue. Of course I can be wrong, but I think I am more right than you.

 

[Shift]

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You know Wayland were credited in many previous episodes where's no obvious role for him? He most likely voices some Pokémon they decides to credited (Gligar maybe?). I don't think, though, this is the case for Rebolledo and I don't think they credited him if he don't participated on this episode. And with all these people claiming Reggie's voice is simmilar to Paul's, I honestly doubt he can be voiced by anyone else but Rebolledo. I am THAT convinced about it, that I am even willing to correct Bulbapedia about this issue. Of course I can be wrong, but I think I am more right than you.

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http://www.nyanimefestival.com/en-us/guests.cfm
Read the profile at the bottom of the page. That's the con evidence I was talking about...

For the record, I thought Reboledo was more likely to have voiced Reggie at first, as well. It's one thing when there's no actual confirmation and you have to guess, but when you've got an official and/or unbiased source stating it, there's no longer room for guesswork.

And more right than me? Presumptive, much?

 

[Yash]

I don't know where you get that nonsense about Mastermind. It's obvious it were dubbed into Japanese and there's nothing for me to believe they do the dub after US dub. The fact US dub were released first is not relevant here.

That's not what I said.

Mastermind of Mirage Pokemon, both the Japanese and US versions, used stock audio for Pikachu (I believe because Ikue Otani was on maternity leave, she also had to temporarily leave her role as Chopper in One Piece).

I'm not even sure anymore. Maybe they pay for a certain number of tracks, regardless of which ones, for each ep or season. That group that's in charge of that music seems like it has something to do with it. All I know is that they're probably not replacing the music, and definitely not the voices, for the heck of it.

I still believe that the reason why PUSA replaces most of the music and fills in the silence and so on is because 4Kids did it. They're merely keeping the status quo. I'm positive that if 4Kids had kept all of the music and left in silence, PUSA would have as well - they get off being lazy simply because it's what we expect of the dub.

Note how the movies and specials keep their original music, which is perfectly in line with how 4Kids handled those.

 

[peno]

Spoiler

http://www.nyanimefestival.com/en-us/guests.cfm
Read the profile at the bottom of the page. That's the con evidence I was talking about...

For the record, I thought Reboledo was more likely to have voiced Reggie at first, as well. It's one thing when there's no actual confirmation and you have to guess, but when you've got an official and/or unbiased source stating it, there's no longer room for guesswork.

And more right than me? Presumptive, much?

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I am sorry, but I think they just take their info from sources like Bulbapedia or ANN. Until somone confirms me Wayland gives these info himself, I don't think they are relevant. Honestly, until I will have Wayland's personal confirmation he is Reggie, I will not believe he is. Yes, I am stern, but that's it how I am ;-)

 

[Shift]

I still believe that the reason why PUSA replaces most of the music and fills in the silence and so on is because 4Kids did it. They're merely keeping the status quo. I'm positive that if 4Kids had kept all of the music and left in silence, PUSA would have as well - they get off being lazy simply because it's what we expect of the dub.

Note how the movies and specials keep their original music, which is perfectly in line with how 4Kids handled those.

I can't believe I'm saying this after sharing your position for so long, but there's probably more to it than that. Like Kazamatsuri Shou's post in the "Importance of Keeping Original Music" thread said, about JASRAC, the music seems to be under a separate package from the rest of the show's materials.I know what you said as well, but it's seems very likely that JASRAC has at least something to do with this. Like was said, money and effort are probably the issues there; PUSA sees the show's doing fine already, and that going through the trouble when, as they probably see it, isn't really worth it, especially for a simple kids show. And it seemed 4Kids didn't even try to bother with it after Pokemon (and Dinosaur King?) Sad, I know; PUSA made some effort, but not enough.

What I'm thinking is, the one we need to talk to about this is Lawrence Neves; he's one of the main PUSA guys, and he's the one who said they'd be keeping as much of the music as possible in the PUSA dubs (at the '06 Comic-con). He's the one who has to answer for this.

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I am sorry, but I think they just take their info from sources like Bulbapedia or ANN. Until somone confirms me Wayland gives these info himself, I don't think they are relevant. Honestly, until I will have Wayland's personal confirmation he is Reggie, I will not believe he is. Yes, I am stern, but that's it how I am ;-)

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Possibly, except for the fact the bio was written and reported on BEFORE the episode premiered.

Why are these in spoilers, anyway? They're discussions about facts, not opinions how how the actors did...

 

[peno]

That's not what I said.

Mastermind of Mirage Pokemon, both the Japanese and US versions, used stock audio for Pikachu (I believe because Ikue Otani was on maternity leave, she also had to temporarily leave her role as Chopper in One Piece).

Oh, yes, now I see what you meant. Sorry about the misunderstanding and sorry I answered now. I didn't notice your post prviously and don't have time to check this thread back then since I was in rush.

I can't believe I'm saying this after sharing your position for so long, but there's probably more to it than that. Like Kazamatsuri Shou's post in the "Importance of Keeping Original Music" thread said, about JASRAC, the music seems to be under a separate package from the rest of the show's materials.I know what you said as well, but it's seems very likely that JASRAC has at least something to do with this. Like was said, money and effort are probably the issues there; PUSA sees the show's doing fine already, and that going through the trouble when, as they probably see it, isn't really worth it, especially for a simple kids show. And it seemed 4Kids didn't even try to bother with it after Pokemon (and Dinosaur King?) Sad, I know; PUSA made some effort, but not enough.

And how you explains the facts about Kerean and Chinese dubs? I don't think they have some expensive dubs. I even think they have low budget dubs.

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Possibly, except for the fact the bio was written and reported on BEFORE the episode premiered.

Why are these in spoilers, anyway? They're discussions about facts, not opinions how how the actors did...

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Well, maybe thay are more relevant then I thought. But it's still hard for me to believe they credited Rebolledo out of nowhere. That's not PUSA's style. But I digress.
And I am keeping this in spoilers because I consider this as voice discusion and that should be in spoiler tags according to rules. And I didn't want to get into troubles :sweatlol:

 

[Shift]

And how you explains the facts about Kerean and Chinese dubs? I don't think they have some expensive dubs. I even think they have low budget dubs.

Well, I'm sure I don't know; I've never seen wither of those dubs before, and for all I know, it could be because JASRAC is easier to work with for Asian countries, but I don't know. I'm not claiming to have all the answers on this, you understand. I'm just saying from everything we've recently learned, we can't be so quick to draw blame until we get some more real facts and answers.

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Well, maybe thay are more relevant then I thought. But it's still hard for me to believe they credited Rebolledo out of nowhere. That's not PUSA's style. But I digress.
And I am keeping this in spoilers because I consider this as voice discusion and that should be in spoiler tags according to rules. And I didn't want to get into troubles :sweatlol:

Well, this discussion is not based on opinion, so I'm taking the chance starting right now. Like I said, there weren't enough male roles to go around this ep, so between Reboledo and Wayland, one of them was mistakenly credited anyway. Going by the source, it essentially has to be the former.

 

[peno]

Well, I'm sure I don't know; I've never seen wither of those dubs before, and for all I know, it could be because JASRAC is easier to work with for Asian countries, but I don't know. I'm not claiming to have all the answers on this, you understand. I'm just saying from everything we've recently learned, we can't be so quick to draw blame until we get some more real facts and answers.

I don't think you should have all the answeres. I am still not that good in English, so sometimes I used more arrogant tone then I really wish. Please be patient with me.
I uderstand what you want to tell. But, if I am not mistaken, there were some other dubs where were said original music were changed because dub company were to cheap to buy original BGM, but you have some Asian and even European dubs who kept original music. Right now, Digimon comes on my mind. Some European Digimon dubs are definitely Low Budget, but still keeps original music (and some of them even lyrical songs) untouched. I understand each Anime have different licensing policy, but stll... What I am trying to tell is, that I don't think compose whole new BGM is cheaper to buy original one with a series license.

 

[Yash]

Well, I'm sure I don't know; I've never seen wither of those dubs before, and for all I know, it could be because JASRAC is easier to work with for Asian countries, but I don't know. I'm not claiming to have all the answers on this, you understand. I'm just saying from everything we've recently learned, we can't be so quick to draw blame until we get some more real facts and answers.

Well even then, look at the uncut American DVD releases for Yu-Gi-Oh! and Shaman King, for example. Those contain the complete Japanese background music, even in the dubbed versions.

Or compare the two One Piece dubs. 4Kids, a mega corporation with (at the time) hits like Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh!, and TMNT raking in the money, vs. FUNimation, the mom & pop anime distributor. Guess who used the original music? Of course, FUNimation didn't always use the original music, but even in Dragon Ball Z, their dub of movie 13 had some Japanese music (and out of place), proving that they had the rights all along.

 

[Shift]

Well even then, look at the uncut American DVD releases for Yu-Gi-Oh! and Shaman King, for example. Those contain the complete Japanese background music, even in the dubbed versions.

Or compare the two One Piece dubs. 4Kids, a mega corporation with (at the time) hits like Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh!, and TMNT raking in the money, vs. FUNimation, the mom & pop anime distributor. Guess who used the original music? Of course, FUNimation didn't always use the original music, but even in Dragon Ball Z, their dub of movie 13 had some Japanese music (and out of place), proving that they had the rights all along.

I'm telling you, I'm not trying to be a know-it-all, so stop pelting me with facts already! I'm not denying there's something wrong here; I'm saying we don't as of yet have the full picture, that we need to procure more facts. All I know is that Lawrence Neves is the one who promised the fans more music. He's the guy who's got some explaining to do.