Mafia Seraph of the End Mafia - Game End (16/03/2020)

[CyanideCrystal]

CORRECTION:

No, not on the miller front, but his role in general. Miller + something else. I just feel like he could be more open about it, I get we don't want scum to be getting information but at the same time town needs info too.

Ok, then it wasn't just about 2 Millers, like I said in my previous post. Sorry for that. But this explanation is still not very good. The role doesn't seem out of place for this game (might be anime plot-related) and I think he shouldn't say what's his ability before using it. He might become a prime target for a nightkill that way.

 

[Snowstorm]

@Mido why did you say that Felly didn't defend herself. When we saw her post where she did defend herself (even if it was apologetic). But I think you tried to misinterpret something here. It seems like througout D1 you were consistent in trying to show Felly as a bad guy.

 

[Midorikawa]

Unvote: KenderCharmeleon because this really was a joke vote, y'all.

But lmao, it's D1, and I already got a target on my back. At least I can talk this time. xD

I've got three votes on me right now, which feels a little suspicious to me, but I don't want to jump to conclusions this early on. From the looks of it, it looks like Space's stems from my joke vote on Kender, so now that that's dropped, maybe things will change, maybe they won't, but only time will tell. HD's vote on me seems to be bandwagoning with Space, but again, maybe it'll all change now that I've dropped my vote on Kender. Like I said, I don't want to jump to conclusions, especially since it's D1 and I don't want to risk a lynch on town, or even worse, a vital role like doctor or cop. That's not to say that I won't lynch someone D1 because I will if I feel I've found someone that's lynchworthy, but with some players still silent, I want to at least see the other players say something before I start throwing serious lynches out there. Right now, it feels like a lot of joke votes, Space and HD's votes on me included, are getting thrown out there, which is great since it's getting some discussion rolling around here, but so far, I've seen nothing that's making me want to throw a solid, non-negotiable lynch on someone right now.

Also my luck that RNGsus wants me dead too lmao, maybe this is fate.

DawningWinds' vote/unvote on me in the same post doesn't seem super suspicious to me, tbh. If I remember correctly, Kender did something in the last game Zinn ran, and I believe he ended up flipping town in the end. I'm not sure if I want to start really making reads this early on when not a whole lot has happened yet, but like Jinjo said, they do raise some good points in not wanting to accidentally lynch town off a joke vote and not wanting to risk a lynch on a valuable town role (like doctor or cop).

@Mido why did you say that Felly didn't defend herself. When we saw her post where she did defend herself (even if it was apologetic). But I think you tried to misinterpret something here. It seems like througout D1 you were consistent in trying to show Felly as a bad guy.

Because it wasn’t a defense. Really read it. Fellyhas a tendency to do giant posts of nonsense with no breaks so they are hard to read through. But if you manage to read through their posts, you’ll see it’s nonsense. The post is just “it was a joke lol” “I unvoted Kender so PLEASE unvote me Human, Space” “lol rng hates me”

Whats the defense?

There is nothing there. And consistently they only did stuff like actually voting Human after extreme pressure.

Ignoring them being doc for a moment: Fraking out about three votes is suspicious on D1.

D1 voting is so full of joke votes and stuff that only three votes is pressure of any kind, but not dangerous like it is in latter day phases. If Felly had actually bothered doing someth8ng instead of just saying nonsense. I would have backed off. But I will not back off if someone only puts in effort after pressure. That’s not town. the best defense is a good offense. Felly never provided either.

 

[KenderCharmeleon]

I reread day 1 entirely and you look like all scum to me. Day 1 looks to me likes this. We try to find someone to lynch, let's analyze data that we have (meaning almost nothing) and find someone to vote for even if it's not really logical. I don't think we can have solid conclusion from day 1. Still, seeing you try. Also, at what I see, we still have no news from SMII and it's the 10th?

I think for now, I'll go with this vote. I'm far from convinced, but seeing you accusing other people without a solid reasoning when accused yourself made me think that maybe you aren't Town. It's not like you are an obvious Mafia, but I guess you just are a bit more suspect then the others for now.

Vote : Snowstorm

Also, my vote is subject to change.

 

[KenderCharmeleon]

There is nothing there. And consistently they only did stuff like actually voting Human after extreme pressure.

To be honest, the vote on me was obviously a joke. I don't get what she could have could say on day 1 to be a convincing answer except, don't kill me I'm a doctor! And getting night killed. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Midorikawa]

Spoiler

Hey I agree with the fact that voting anyone earlier in the day is not based on info. They are usually joke or random. Right now I have no reads on anyone. And I have no idea who to vote. I think Day 1 is too early and lynching anyone based on no information seems risky to me for town.

There is nothing wrong with this opinion it’s safe but not really alignment indicative.

Hey guys I'm sorry for the lack of activity. I am on family vacations for two days and had limited availability. So I'm still catching up but there are a few posts that caught my attention skimming the past few pages.


So if you are saying that she could be mafia, do you think that it is justified that people were suspecting her.

And don't you think that it's too early to talk about the roles such as doctor or cop at this early stage of the game?

Solid post. Asks some nice questions.

Why is it unlikely that mafia cannot coordinate? Mafia can chat amongst themselves and it's very easy for them to make a scheme against anyone. And we saw that it did actually happen. Mafia succeeded in killing a town role such as Felly. It's their objective in the game to accuse other people and make them suspects. So I cannot completely understand what you're trying to say. It's quite possible that mafia would have chosen Felly as a target because how quickly her wagon was formed.

So while the first two sentences aren’t bad, it’s the rest that still irks me. I’ve explained why, and that is that they’re so certain that the Felly lynch was mafia.

Yeah after this kill I'm really suspecting Mido at this point.

Also why is Dawning not dead yet after he claimed cop?

Falling right for the mafia trap, but meh. I have an aggressive play style, so I’m used to being suspected, and Jinjo is one who always thinks I’m mafia for it, so anyone who doesn’t know us well enough would probably suspect me.

Asking why dawning isn’t dead isn’t particularly wrong, but the way snow worded it is irking. But that one is more personal preference.

But we still had a kill which means mafia was not blocked.

I'm also curious to know what results did Dawning get last night.

Confusion. But nothing wrong.

@Mido why did you say that Felly didn't defend herself. When we saw her post where she did defend herself (even if it was apologetic). But I think you tried to misinterpret something here. It seems like througout D1 you were consistent in trying to show Felly as a bad guy.

I like this. Solid question asking for clarification.

Snowstomr isn’t that bad. They ask some pretty good questions, and really only have one scummy post. I’m not bothered by the lack of case on me , or being suspicious. I’m not an easy player to make a case on, plus Snowstorm is on vacation with spotty connection, so they have limited time to post. They’re not lynch worthy at this time.

 

[CyanideCrystal]

What are your reads for others, Mido?

 

[Midorikawa]

To be honest, the vote on me was obviously a joke. I don't get what she could have could say on day 1 to be a convincing answer except, don't kill me I'm a doctor! And getting night killed. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Not lol PLEASE UNLYNCH ME

If Felly had said said something else like “It was entirely a joke vote. Unvote Kender. Now then time to get serious” I would have ignored the post. But instead it was “lol please unlynch me” and later “human be suspicious For placing and unexplained vote on me D1.” And then did nothing Like build a case or vote him until after a heck load of pressure. People are forgetting it wasn’t just the first post that I was voting them for. If that was the only thing they did wrong, then tood Probably wouldn’t have voted, and Deku would have removed his probably. But how one handles a vote based on post is the main factor.

Now I have to get ready for work. I’m going to try to do some more ISO’s today. But snowstorm, as the current lynch was my main one for the day.

 

[SMII]

I think the kill was random

 

[Midorikawa]

What are your reads for others, Mido?

Dawnnng town. Human town, but he and I tend to be on similar wave lengths so I find him hard to read. I don’t have any other definitive reads right now. I want to ISO first.

I think the kill was random

..........Anything else?

 

[ZinnLav]

Spoiler: Our Players

@DawningWinds
@KenderCharmeleon
@Midorikawa
@Tood
@Zachie
@DekuNut
@Snowstorm
@Space
@HumanDawn
@SMII
@CyanideCrystal

Day Two - Midday Vote Count

Who Has Been Voted For?	Who Voted?
Space	HumanDawn
DekuNut	Space
Snowstorm	DekuNut, DawningWinds, KenderCharmeleon
Didn't Vote	Midorikawa, Tood, Zachie, Snowstorm, SMII, CyanideCrystal

Day Two will end at 11pm AEST in 23 hours and 48 minutes on the 11th of March.

Seraph of the End Mafia - Day Two End/Night Two Start

Counting time since Mar 11, 2020 11:00 pm. Showing days, hours, minutes and seconds counting up

www.timeanddate.com

 

[Midorikawa]

Spoiler

This is a joke vote but also loops into being serious hmm.......

Vote: Felly

the first attempt at making the thread cereal. I approve.

i'm kinda suspicious of you lol



I know it was a joke vote but still feels like an easy way of placing a joke vote while also being serious. i'm not sure if i'm wording this correctly, but basically it just still strikes me as if it was somewhat serious. But that being said, I'm not comfortable voting you still since your post overall made sense.



it wasn't without information really, more like i might have been reading into it too much, but i still get the feeling there was something to Felly's vote on you. That alone isn't enough for me to be seriously still be voting Felly anymore though

Unvote: Felly

Vote: DekuNut

rng made you vote the one who had the most votes at the time? Not sure about this.

very good solid post. Explains reasons and answers questions.

How did you not know what to think?

Spoiler

View attachment 131535

Been a while since I've watched it but it seems to me like Mikaela would fit as miller/independent, since he's a vampire but not *with* them and only cares about Yuichirou.



You had a feeling but I really didn't see you doing much to stop the wagon. The entire day phase I didn't see you commit to anything, which gives scummy vibes



My quote got messed up here, but what does IDP mean? independent player? Also I'm confused are you claiming miller or no

This is the start of Space not liking Dekus claim. Nothing wrong with it and on a note, Space comes from a generation where things like indep millers and two millers is a strange unheard of thing. Back in our day we only had normal claims.

Huh, alright then.... I mean, I'm more willing to trust Zachie since he claimed first and his entire claim sounds like it would be the character Mikaela. But Zachie otherwise is not giving me trustworthy vibes.

As things stand, that makes DekuNut most suspicious to me and vote-worthy.



Well I was half joking and half serious, but yeah this is a fair point. All I can say now is I'm gonna toss any meta aside, and I've been agreeing with your posts this whole game generally so I'm town leaning you. If you were scum I don't think you would have been so quick to vote Felly like you did.

....my phone put my response for this

catching up



Shoot sorry, I need to be paying closer attention when reading back.



Hmmmmmmm...........



This is late, but I honestly can't think of any other character that would work as mafia. I'm assuming this is going off S1 of the anime so that makes it even more difficult.



...

Spoiler

View attachment 131551

I really don't see Midorikawa as doing that, seems like an attempt at a frame job if anything.



Oof. I jumped off the Felly wagon since Felly's post was solid to me and there's no way of proving his vote was RNG. Way too coincidental to rng the vote on the person with the most votes at the time.

Not sure why DekuNut isn't getting more heat. He never outright claimed miller until Zachie did, and unlike Zachie, has not been forthcoming about his role in the slightest. On top of that he ended up "rng" voting which helped get the doctor out.

Vote: DekuNut

Again nothing wrong. I think I did react to this or her next post as I will say I don’t like her building a case solely off the reason of deku voting thanks to rng. Still think it’s hypocritical a little but she does have further reasons on deku.

Maybe. But imo it seemed less attention seeking and more as a way to just place a vote and not be questioned on it. Since he said it was RNG, how could someone dispute/question it?

I just can't see there being two millers and I believe Zachie. And I'm not sure what else could be to his role that he can't come out and say, we've already got the doctor out and cop is outed. Not to mention Yuichirou is the main character and he was just a 1x commuter, and if I'm believing Zachie he's just a miller now survivor. It just doesn't seem like anyone's roles would have more to them that would need to be hided, if I'm making sense here......

That “it was rng how could it be disputed” is the only irking thing. Everything can be questioned and disputed. And again the fact that she and others let Felly off for just going “it was a joke vote lol” and treating hers as no possible malicious intention, but rng which is basically a joke vote can have malicious intention.

No, that's not what made me unvote. I unvoted because Felly's post itself was fine to me and did not provide a reason for me to keep my vote on Felly.

Here's what I said:



Also about DekuNut it's the fact that he didn't outright claim it and then claimed after Zachie did which is weirdest.

Explaining stuff which is never bad.

Yours was a second vote, which was different than a third. (i don't think I unvoted at that point but could be wrong) And again, the RNG doesn't sit right and I don't think anything anyone can say about it will make me view it differently.



Not exactly, but I don't see why he's being that secretive about it. Also I was getting at that it seemed like everyone had just one specific power to them. Doctor, cop, 1x commuter, if Zachie is to believed then miller+survivor... but that's moot now going off what you're saying here:



Interesting. I myself have only one role so that was another reason I was so skeptical on DekuNut as well, but. I don't know, I'm still just not satisfied with how DekuNut went about it and I don't think zeldadungeon meta should be a factor in this.

At this point I feel like she’s just trying to find something to use against deku and is disregarding anything defending him. Tunneling on him and not looking at others.

No, not on the miller front, but his role in general. Miller + something else. I just feel like he could be more open about it, I get we don't want scum to be getting information but at the same time town needs info too. Fair point about the meta though.

I'm not sure what else to be saying about the DekuNut thing, and I admit I am focusing way too much on him (tbh though, no one else is jumping at me as someone I'd be comfortable voting, so.......) but seriously, and I'm asking anyone here, isn't the probability of there being two millers very slim?

She’s really obsessed with the idea of two millers being impossible. She at least owns up to her tunneling.

Overall Space’s posts have a good solid start but as she concentrated on deku more and more she starts to look desperate and a little scummy. Part of it I understand. When Space started mafia,roles weren’t so unique. Outside f the deku stuff she looks town, but the deku obsession just seems wrong.

 

[Zachie]

Zachie: Willing to believe his claim for the moment. I think other people making a big deal about the Miller thing rubbed off on me too much, and after talking to him during the night phase, I don't think it's worth it to follow up on him at the moment. Even if I feel with every ounce of my being that Zachie needs to die, and everyone like him. Moo.

Cowism :[

Been at work alllllll day, am exhausted an about to go to bed but this Snow wagon seems to be forming very quickly with only a little bit to go off. Something/some people to keep an eye on.

 

[HumanDawn]

I'm not satisfied with Space's overall reasoning for focusing on DekuNut. She town-read me for being so quick to vote Felly, but does not do the same for DekuNut because it was the third vote? The best reasoning is because she can't see another character who could be a Miller, but DekuNut has claimed to have another role for him so that could be more indicative of who their character is? Feels like she has no one else and is going for the easiest lynch.

@Midorikawa Were the roles really that simple back then? I think I played three games with multiple Town Millers.

I can see the reasoning for the Snowstorm votes but I see it more as scraping the "bottom of the barrel" in the players list.

I know I already voted Space, but I am doing it again.

Vote: Space

For emphasis.

 

[KenderCharmeleon]

I can see the reasoning for the Snowstorm votes but I see it more as scraping the "bottom of the barrel" in the players list.

I do see it, and I do also feel like every vote I could made are really bad. I could also shift my vote on Space. I think I'll reread all the posts tonight to make my own head about it when I'll have more time. For the time being, I'll keep my vote on SnowStorm...

 

[CyanideCrystal]

I feel like there isn't a lot to go on in general for now. Snowstorm lynch might be a waste, since they don't play too much. And maybe what I read as scum tells is just inactivity :/

But Space seems like it's an easy answer. I don't know why would someone make such decisions if they were scum.

 

[Space]

Overall Space’s posts have a good solid start but as she concentrated on deku more and more she starts to look desperate and a little scummy. Part of it I understand. When Space started mafia,roles weren’t so unique. Outside f the deku stuff she looks town, but the deku obsession just seems wrong.

I can see how it would come across desperate, but tbh it's more confusion + feeling like I'm going in circles here. Also yeah they were more simple overall I'd say, not sure which games HD is referring to with multiple town millers.

Outside of DekuNut, I've become a little suspicious of Tood. Tood seems to be around and says some things, but hasn't committed to anything. Tood spoke of wanting to break a tie to get a lynch on Day 1, but hasn't tried anything of the sort on this day phase?

For emphasis.

 

[HumanDawn]

I can see how it would come across desperate, but tbh it's more confusion + feeling like I'm going in circles here. Also yeah they were more simple overall I'd say, not sure which games HD is referring to with multiple town millers.

There was Phoenicks Lord of the Rings game with two, or three Town millers. There was another game I was in, in which I was a Miller myself, and the other Miller got lynched Day 1 lol. Can't remember the third, but anyway, you know this scenario isn't like it at all because it's an Independent Miller and Town Miller claims.

Outside of DekuNut, I've become a little suspicious of Tood. Tood seems to be around and says some things, but hasn't committed to anything. Tood spoke of wanting to break a tie to get a lynch on Day 1, but hasn't tried anything of the sort on this day phase?

Yeah, I can't say I am happy with the Day 2 activity from Tood. Okay... how does Tood saying he voted Felly to prevent potential ties Day 1 have anything to with Day 2 when the situation now from Day 1 isn't similar in the slightest?

 

[Midorikawa]

Spoiler

RNGsus has spoken
Vote: Felly

Joke vote

Yo

Softclaiming miller

I mean, it's not like there was a 1 in 13 chance at that or anything... besides, it would be pretty useless to do that now, so early in the day. While Fel had the most votes, they were still far from maj, and there's still a ton of time left in the day.

I agree with this. Three votes early day one is not dangerous. Especially when one is an obvious joke.

Hey folks, sorry I've been absent today. I've pretty much been doing things non-stop. Hopefully life will let up enough for me to at least do something during Day 2.
Catching up on reading now, before I go to bed. I'll give my thoughts and final votes after that

Update post. NAI

Yes, I was claiming miller. Because I am the Miller. I am, in fact, simply the worst.


I don't think there's such a thing as "too soon to say anything useful". Anyone who has an angle to play knows that from minute one, and even if it's an RVS or random comment, everything they say is made with that knowledge in mind. It takes some digging and some psychology, but most any post could prove useful.


This seems like a weird thing to have been said specifically in a role PM. I don't recall ever being a third party player that knew what I'd cop check as.

Also I guess I didn't quote it, but I disagree with the idea that Random Lynches are good, as well as the idea that No lynches are good. Neither provides us good information. A radnom lynch is better, but it allows for a more solid idea of people taking sides.

Anyways, it was RNG initially, but I think I'll keep my current vote on Felly. Her defense posts seemed like they were trying to play up the pity factor, and she got way too freaked out about only a few votes so early in the day. It's not a ton, but it's enough for D1 imo.
Winds seems newbtown. Shame they let stuff slip. While there's no way a seasoned mafia would fakeclaim cop, the fact that he said immediately after that he knew it was bad meant that he recognized that mafia shouldn't had done that, and in his first game I don't feel like newbscum would be that bold.
I'm also seeing Mido as very town. The pushes come from a place I understand, and her tone rings true to me.
Now I'm exausted. It's 4:30am. Later peeps.

Solid post. Explains stuff, answers stuff, contributes.

Does a third party who comes up as not town on the cop check really count as a miller? Every time I've seen it used, Miller has been in reference to town coming up as not town, not third party coming up as not town.

NAI

@Zachie are you claiming this, or just that you come up as not town on cop checks?

Good question.

I did technically claim like 19 hours before Zachie. It just wasn't an explicit claim. You guys knew what I was going for though, so that's what was important.

He has a point. Several understood it so that is what matters.

Also that was the time he claimed ITP, but he didn't even add the miller claim until like two posts later. Doesn't change my point, but gives more context to all that.

NAI

If I were going to back out on it, I would've done it after people started connecting Zachie's claim to a miller as well. But I came back and doubled down after he claimed and said "Yes, this is what I meant'.


It was mostly a stylistic choice tbh. If I wasn't so busy yesterday I would've been back to confirm my statement within a few hours rather than a full day (like I planned) and this wouldn't have become as much of an issue as it has. I feel like it was only because I was gone for so long I feel like people are taking this as badly as they are.

He has a point. And not going back on it shows confidence

This just doesn't sit right with me. Why would an ITP be told what they would be cop checked as? That makes no sense.
If you assumed that much, I'd get it. As third party, i wouldnt assume the cop would look favorably on me either. But if you were told... i do find a hard time believing that.
And then your later comment that you cant claim a role you don't have... what? What kind of statenent is that? Of course you can!

it’s called fake claiming when you claim a role you don’t have.

In seriousness the disbelief about Zachies role seems like a possible attempt to make us waste a lynch on an indep.

I made my point clearly enough I felt. People picked it up. They understood where I was going. I wasnt explicit, but theres no reason to be. To continue off from what Mido said, not only does ZD not claim miller D1 usually, we also have limited hard claims, so softing is usually done more often than flat out stating the role, unless a full claim seems necessary. Thats just how I learned to play, and honestly I find softs more fun to make anyways.
Anyways ill make a readslist whenever i get to a computer

Explanation.

Miller is my role, but yes, I also have a one-shot ability.

Still think he shouldn’t have done this.

DawningWinds: Town. Making mistakes that I doub newb scum would make. I'm willing to believe his claim.

KenderCharmeleon: Town. Seemed generally anti-progress D1, but also explained how this came from their limited number of previous games. Just makes sense in the arc of a new-ish player. I like their reads. Nothing about them really pings me as mafia.

Midorikawa: Town. Generally seems to be leading the conversation, and most of their moves seem to be townie to me, especially these last few posts. Not necessary posts to make, but a town-aligned one all the same.

Tood: Lean town. Was making points early D1 without trying to lead the discussion by the nose. Seemed levelheaded when they were discussing their own paranoia. Not wanting a tie is townie to me as well.

Zachie: Willing to believe his claim for the moment. I think other people making a big deal about the Miller thing rubbed off on me too much, and after talking to him during the night phase, I don't think it's worth it to follow up on him at the moment. Even if I feel with every ounce of my being that Zachie needs to die, and everyone like him. Moo.

DekuNut: Stake it through the heart. Kill it with fire.

Snowstorm: Anti-Town. Seemed to support D1 claims, and tried to push the narrative that the Fellie lynch was scum-led. If he's scum, I doubt he has any scumbuds on the Fellie lynch. Also don't love his shade at Mido. Needs more content; generally anyone who posts less than the mod is posting too little.

Space: Tried to get things moving quickly D1, but seems to be tunneling me. Idk if that feeling is just kinda OMGUSy tho. Would like a second opinion to check in on that. If it doesn't look like OMGUS then I'll put him on the possible scum list.

HumanDawn: Active, but a lot of the activity is memes. Claim is believable but easilt provable. The one time I may advocate for a tie if we want to prove it. That said, has generally seemed to be making town-aligned points and posts.

SMII: Still on vacation. No posts so nothing to read.

CyanideCrystal: Lean town. Was anti-no lynch, and, while suspicious of me, gave me a chance to explain myself and prodded me for more information.

Vote: Snowstorm

well explained reads list. While making reads isn’t really alignment indicative, backing them up is. They all make sense and are well explained.

Yeah, I'd assume. I'm not gonna say my reads are perfect, and with only two real scumreads I'm almost for sure reading an anti-town as town. But for now this is where I'm at.
As for the latter bit, looking back, I misread a post. They were actualyl against D1 claims. So that's my b.

So Deku has pretty good posts. I wish there was more actual effort rather than explaining himself, but what he does do isn’t bad and he’s shown he’s paying attention.

However his user title is Rigalian Emperor. The only emperor is Edelgard von Hreslvg. So clearly he’s Edelgard disguised as Claude. Only scum would do such a thing! Thus he must be mafia.

vote: Dekunut aka Edelgard von Hreslvg


Unvote: Dekunut

in seriousness town lean for Deku. I want to see more from him. As for his Felly vote, I have no issues. The rng was a joke but by the time he came back he had legit reason to leave it there.

And I know these iso are getting lackluster. Typing when I have moments at work so I’m not as detailed as I’d like. And I don’t trust my phone not to butcher long posts.

 

[Midorikawa]

There was Phoenicks Lord of the Rings game with two, or three Town millers. There was another game I was in, in which I was a Miller myself, and the other Miller got lynched Day 1 lol. Can't remember the third, but anyway, you know this scenario isn't like it at all because it's an Independent Miller and Town Miller claims.

Lord of the rings was a crazy game period. I feel like I remember that second example but I don’t know the game.

Either way this is a unique scenario, but much more believable than those honestly. Also after cells at work this is normal.

@Space never sub into a Zinnlav game. Never.

I think Tood will be my next look through when I have the chance.