What do you think of Team Rocket in XY?

[TesalionLortus]

Yep, they did show us some better layers/ideas/dreams, although it's still a true rarity (except for Jessie and her Kalos Queen ingredient). Also, the show reached 70 episodes already, making it all the worse! I had bigger hopes for XY because I am dreaming about an ultimate Team Rocket series. Unfortunately, even if XY somehow cought my soul, after some analysis, after rewatching older episodes... I would rather consider XY the opposite of "ultimate", at least for now. I have dealt with my thoughts, observations and feels in my full-scale review:

This review!!! concerns Team Rocket in the XY series as well as their enormous potential. It’s filled with passion, joy and various thunderous emotions. It doesn’t miss wider clarity and depicts the most important aspects of their portrayal...

And oh, Dogasu... no, no way. It's not poverty that's missing. What's missing is a proper writing, properly adjusted to fresh circumstances. They are basically back to their position and gadgets from early OS (read: equipment of villains that can be seen as competent), although the overall technology of this anime remains improved so it's kind of natural that they need some advanced technology as well. Plus... the fact that their organisation provides them with money/technology (so they can do their job!) doesn't mean they are rich. They are still merely agents in the big worlwide organisation. They may still need to make some additional money, especially if they run out of their personal reserves. Their position and technology don't exclude them from dreaming, struggling with problems or launching ocassional businesses. Besides, just imagine XY version of S.S. Anne episode with Kojiro being tricked into buying something and then being quickly brought up to form by his teammates - because they have work to do. So they proceed with TR grunts & recite motto with class, eventually failing at capturing some pokemon but at least obtaining very useful piece of data they were sent for. Although it all remains dropped for a while. And in next episode we can see them enjoying their free time activities (just like in the radio show or just like on this picture) and perhaps trying to grab Pikachu after they encounter the twerps. That's what I mean by "ultimate" Team Rocket series. Such incredible potential! Ironically, XY is the very first series in which such concept might actually work (after all the stuff from BW because the TRio proved themselves and regained back their serious villainous qualities), but it's all completely wasted... So in the end, not only such possibilities are wasted, but also Team Rocket's role remains strictly limited so they don't even get much of good free time activities (except for their lighhearted moments while they scheme and invade - fulfilling their basic obligatory roles).

 

[Mareepy]

I feel like I can say the writers completely failed on writing Team Rocket as of now.

XY is my favourite generation thus far, but Team Rocket is not really their strong point. Its a good thing they didn't appear in every single episodes.

In my review thread comments, I always make sure I keep note on if I laughed because of them. As of now at XY77, there are less than 10 moments they are actually funny.

In Unova I give them an excuse of their promotion so they started acting evil. Up until Sinnoh, they are still good people who walked the wrong path, its just time before they realizes they should live the better life. Heck they even cheered for Ash's Infernape vs Electivire. In XY, they are just too evil for my taste. I lost my hope of any redemption of them, causing Hospital electric out, ambushing Goodra. I feel like I am watching CSI's (I chose this instead of other shows because its one of my favourite) bad guys in Pokemon. This SUCKS. When I watch Pokemon, I don't watch CSI. And since they went that route, I am feeling dreadful since they are not put in jail.

And Team Rocket's poverty is in fact why I hasn't been sick of them for until mid way through BW. BW Team Rocket is interesting, but it gets old so quickly, that all changes is just jet packs. I started to be able to predict how things will go on like I did before and just changes blasting off to jet packs. And that is when I realize i love blasting off more than jet pack. Their poverty resulted in them doing several temporary jobs in episodes. This one mixed with the point above too. In XY, they worked at the Summer Camp too, but they decided to betray their job in the end? They never did that before, they are after Ash's Pikachu, but you ever saw them harm people that are good to them? People that gave them a job and pay them handsomely? That makes me feel sick, and to be honest, the Summer Camp arc ended in a sour note for me because of this.

So yeah, Team Rocket sucks in XY, until they find their good heart back and repent for their sins, I am going to just say I want Team Rocket to be gone. F.O.R.E.V.E.R.

 

[KrisiChiki]

I've been re-watching AG lately, which helped me see the contrast of Team Rocket in AG and Team Rocket in XY. I have to say, in AG they are much more entertaining. It also helps that the dub has some pretty clever puns and gags. At first I was a little irked I couldn't find subbed episodes of AG, but despite the mediocre voice acting I found myself appreciating the puns and gags I just mentioned, making me actually enjoy the dub. Generally though, AG seems to have a lot more comedic scenes and overall silliness than XY.

I'll have to agree the writing of the Rocket Trio in XY isn't very good. Later episodes, like pokemon fan 132 mentioned, did improve and the Trio got more focus and depth, but unfortunately some of the episodes like the one in which they cut out the electricity of hospitals put them in a very negative light in my eyes. I've always thought they were interesting characters, good people who walked the wrong path, as Mareepy put it. In XY, however, you can't really call them good people anymore. I try to ignore those few instances where they genuinely evil, just so I can enjoy the rest of the episodes because outside XY's (and BW's) writing, I really like Team Rocket.

 

[Enzian]

I avoided this thread for a long time without exactly knowing why, but I think it was because I care way too much for TR - I have a soft spot for them and didn’t want to read through harsh comments.

XY-TR is still recovering from BW, but I’m glad to see them going the right direction overall. There were times I was afraid the writers have completely forgotten which kind of characters they were meant to be, but there were clear signs they haven’t and I hope to see more of them in future episodes.

It would be a shame, if we couldn’t have their old selfs back, since they were unique and lovable in so many ways. They were easily one of the most emotional and dynamic characters in the show, entertaining, joyful and they represented something like a family to me (unlike the main group, who was more representing friends/partners). Jessie and James probably have one of the strongest human-human bonds in the anime. I love how attached their Pokemon are to them and the other way round. They are one of the few adult main characters of the show what allows them to have the most complex background-stories. Their whole situation was kind of interesting, since it was clear that they are good-hearted people who would be much happier outside of Team Rocket and it’s only a matter of time ‘till they quit. They weren’t one-sided characters and I adored them for it.

BW decided it was a good idea to turn the most emotional, joyful characters into the most stoic in order to make them better villains (?), but it definitely didn’t work for me. Especially because it was so sudden. I would compare this to Ash getting rid of Pikachu with the start of a new season, or suddenly don’t liking Pokemon anymore – just weird and out of character. And as I said before, TR is still suffering from this, even if they are allowed to show emotion and other interests again, at least occasionally. The “good-hearted people, without doubt”-part is what bugs me the most. I would doubt it in some episodes and this irritates me to no end - there are adjectives I will never be able to link to Jessie, James and Meowth and “cold” and “ruthless” are two of them. And even if they decide to air another 100 episodes with them showing no emotions at all or being bad to the bones, it will stay this way and always be out of character to me. I don’t think Pokemon needs cold villains like this anyway, they aren’t really enjoyable to watch.

Like the poster before me, I just ignored most of these episodes, because I felt more comfortable that way And it doesn’t even feel like taking the easy way, since TR is badly written and there was and is no progress that leads to their different behaviour, no reason at all. It’s just random and probably the decision of someone who doesn’t know the difference between “cool” and “cold”. The writing often is lazy, messy, inconsistent and I frequently get the feeling they don’t waste a second thought on TR, but simply use them so the main group can make some progress (rescuing and therefore bonding with their Pokemon had always been a job for TR-battles, as well as evolving/learning new attacks/filling the episode/...).

It's like seeing old friends being treated badly and it’s the main reason I can’t fully enjoy XY. That I started rewatching old Pokemon episodes two months ago doesn’t really help, it always stings a bit.

But I don’t want to complain only. As I said at the beginning, they’re nearly back to normal in some XY-episodes and allowed to do other things than fulfil their “bad guys who steal other people Pokemon”-role. Actually they are more often than they are truly dark and serious what’s a great relief for me. The cumulative hints to their personalities (such as Jessies love for Smoochum) raise my hope the writers will see them as unique characters with their own interests once again and remember they were originally designed as “lovely, charming villains”.
If so I’m willing to forget about all this

*ups, this post was longer than planned*

PS: To pick up some other comments, I would hate to see them leaving the show now. Because I still like them very much, they still have much unused potential and especially because they were far from their high lately and deserve better. I wouldn’t trust them to write them out properly at the moment.

 

[pokepal_123]

Tbh I wouldn't mind them as much if only they don't appear in episodes just to fill time. The thing TR I think is the one of the main issues in XY and epiosdes without generally a lot more gets done like in XY073 where they fit quite few things into the episode then usual just by getting rid of TR when they are not needed.

 

[Geodude]

I was glad to see them go "back to basics" at the end of BW. They've been fun in XY, almost like they were before BW. I have to admit I miss the insane Boss fantasies though. Can we get those back please? XD

 

[Maya Oak]

Lol, I love them in DP and AG the most. They were great comedic characters and I'd much rather see them be funny over how serious they were in BW. I mean Jessie and James got some serious character development in some of those fillers that I'd love to see be developed more in XY (like in the episode Jess released Dustox and James letting go of chimecho).

And yes, the boss fantasies were awesome, I love them.

 

[Lugia trainer]

I avoided this thread for a long time without exactly knowing why, but I think it was because I care way too much for TR - I have a soft spot for them and didn’t want to read through harsh comments.

XY-TR is still recovering from BW, but I’m glad to see them going the right direction overall. There were times I was afraid the writers have completely forgotten which kind of characters they were meant to be, but there were clear signs they haven’t and I hope to see more of them in future episodes.

It would be a shame, if we couldn’t have their old selfs back, since they were unique and lovable in so many ways. They were easily one of the most emotional and dynamic characters in the show, entertaining, joyful and they represented something like a family to me (unlike the main group, who was more representing friends/partners). Jessie and James probably have one of the strongest human-human bonds in the anime. I love how attached their Pokemon are to them and the other way round. They are one of the few adult main characters of the show what allows them to have the most complex background-stories. Their whole situation was kind of interesting, since it was clear that they are good-hearted people who would be much happier outside of Team Rocket and it’s only a matter of time ‘till they quit. They weren’t one-sided characters and I adored them for it.

BW decided it was a good idea to turn the most emotional, joyful characters into the most stoic in order to make them better villains (?), but it definitely didn’t work for me. Especially because it was so sudden. I would compare this to Ash getting rid of Pikachu with the start of a new season, or suddenly don’t liking Pokemon anymore – just weird and out of character. And as I said before, TR is still suffering from this, even if they are allowed to show emotion and other interests again, at least occasionally. The “good-hearted people, without doubt”-part is what bugs me the most. I would doubt it in some episodes and this irritates me to no end - there are adjectives I will never be able to link to Jessie, James and Meowth and “cold” and “ruthless” are two of them. And even if they decide to air another 100 episodes with them showing no emotions at all or being bad to the bones, it will stay this way and always be out of character to me. I don’t think Pokemon needs cold villains like this anyway, they aren’t really enjoyable to watch.

Like the poster before me, I just ignored most of these episodes, because I felt more comfortable that way And it doesn’t even feel like taking the easy way, since TR is badly written and there was and is no progress that leads to their different behaviour, no reason at all. It’s just random and probably the decision of someone who doesn’t know the difference between “cool” and “cold”. The writing often is lazy, messy, inconsistent and I frequently get the feeling they don’t waste a second thought on TR, but simply use them so the main group can make some progress (rescuing and therefore bonding with their Pokemon had always been a job for TR-battles, as well as evolving/learning new attacks/filling the episode/...).

It's like seeing old friends being treated badly and it’s the main reason I can’t fully enjoy XY. That I started rewatching old Pokemon episodes two months ago doesn’t really help, it always stings a bit.

But I don’t want to complain only. As I said at the beginning, they’re nearly back to normal in some XY-episodes and allowed to do other things than fulfil their “bad guys who steal other people Pokemon”-role. Actually they are more often than they are truly dark and serious what’s a great relief for me. The cumulative hints to their personalities (such as Jessies love for Smoochum) raise my hope the writers will see them as unique characters with their own interests once again and remember they were originally designed as “lovely, charming villains”.
If so I’m willing to forget about all this

*ups, this post was longer than planned*

PS: To pick up some other comments, I would hate to see them leaving the show now. Because I still like them very much, they still have much unused potential and especially because they were far from their high lately and deserve better. I wouldn’t trust them to write them out properly at the moment.

Well it's obvious that you and me have completely opposite opinions about them. Also they're role is more along the lines of "bad guys who try to steal other peoples pokemon" because they never successfully steal them.

Anyway, the way I see it is that the organisation was removed from the games a long time ago so I don't really understand why it's still in the show. I think removing the organisation would give the other villainous teams more opportunity to grab the spotlight instead of just appearing in a short story arch.

 

[Geodude]

They're still in the show because they're clearly very popular.

 

[Hidden Mew]

They're still in the show because they're clearly very popular.

Pretty much. They're still used in promotional material for the movies, usually in promos for the newest distribution for the newest movie, they had that radio show a couple of years ago, I think a live show shortly after the radio show, and they went back to their usual comical roles after their serious mode in BW didn't take off that well. They are still pretty popular characters in the anime, which is probably one reason why they reverted back to their comical roles in late BW and why they're back to more frequent appearances in XY.

 

[Lugia trainer]

They're still in the show because they're clearly very popular.

Pretty much. They're still used in promotional material for the movies, usually in promos for the newest distribution for the newest movie, they had that radio show a couple of years ago, I think a live show shortly after the radio show, and they went back to their usual comical roles after their serious mode in BW didn't take off that well. They are still pretty popular characters in the anime, which is probably one reason why they reverted back to their comical roles in late BW and why they're back to more frequent appearances in XY.

I get that they're supposed to serve as comic relief but I don't think the show really needs it because there aren't that many situations where comic relief would be appropriate. And I'm pretty sure comic relief could be provided without them. What's really ironic is the fact that they cause situations where comic relief would be appropriate but get blasted off before the situation really starts (see XY02). I also think there are episodes that would've worked without them. Like the Ryhorn race episode. Also there's one thing I don't understand: Why have the writers given them pointless episode appearances? Like in the Shalour city gym battle episode. Their role in that episode really seemed unnecessary due to how insignificant it was.

 

[Geodude]

If they want to catch the twerps' Pokemon, why would they stay away just because they're busy/distracted with a Gym Battle? That would seem like a good time to try something. It seems to me that you're just complaining for the sake of complaining.

 

[Lugia trainer]

If they want to catch the twerps' Pokemon, why would they stay away just because they're busy/distracted with a Gym Battle? That would seem like a good time to try something. It seems to me that you're just complaining for the sake of complaining.

I'm not complaining. I just see things the way they are. And I was talking about with the episodes plot. Can you honestly say their appearance in that episode was relevant to the plot in any way? It wasn't.

 

[Geodude]

What difference does it make if it was "relevant to the plot" or not? Lots of things appear in every episode that aren't directly relevant to the plot.

 

[Lugia trainer]

What difference does it make if it was "relevant to the plot" or not? Lots of things appear in every episode that aren't directly relevant to the plot.

It was a gym battle episode. They focus on the gym battles. TR was just taking away focus fom the gym battle and they were only there for about a minute without any impact on the plot and didn't appear again afterward. If that's not a pointless role than please tell me what it was.

 

[TesalionLortus]

What difference does it make if it was "relevant to the plot" or not? Lots of things appear in every episode that aren't directly relevant to the plot.

It was a gym battle episode. They focus on the gym battles. TR was just taking away focus fom the gym battle and they were only there for about a minute without any impact on the plot and didn't appear again afterward. If that's not a pointless role than please tell me what it was.

It makes difference. The less they are relevant to the plot, the less they are relevant to the show. People might enjoy them, you might enjoy, damn it, even I might enjoy them! But it doesn't make them less irrelevant, less inconsistent or whatever else. The facts are they are getting much less screentime than pre-BW and even though it's more than in BW, it's still bad from storytelling standpoint. Because in BW they had purpose and major relevance to the plot. In XY they got no alternate mottos, no major focus, no special footage except for some cosmetics, not enough *really good* episodes etc.
I posted the whole review about how I feel about them in XY and seriously, the list can go on and there are not enough positives to counter all negatives, I guess. And that's the measure of the quality. And yes, this gym battle episode is the very good example of how randomly and inconsistently they are treated by the stuff. They are literally being thrown into the plot just for the sake of their mandatory apparance.

Their potential is usually wasted (including BW's legacy), Giovanni remains absent and not even interested in mega evolution, in some situations they appear unnecessary, yet when they get their good moments... it's usually only a spark of their older charm. I'm really surprised people cannot see it, even though the writing is completely blatant about it, especially nowadays. Just watch XY02, XY17, XY18, XY22, XY31, XY36, XY42, XY44, XY52, XY53, even XY59 (which could have been done much better imo), not to mention XY66, XY71, XY72, XY75 (there was Rocketshipping and it was funny but it doesn't change the fact that they appeared only as a medium concerning the notebook and Steven) or XY77 which was a total joke - that moment when you actually start to believe they got a really good episode... and BUM, nooo, no way, it was just a joke. Add up recycled footage and recycled motto or the simple fact that they DO NOT appear in many XY episodes at all and then look at the number of episodes above - all of them somehow terribly screwed, wheather they got no serious screentime or no proper role. Sometimes both.

So it's not about why they are here, how many episodes they get, if they get friendship and aspirations episodes or whether they act serious or funny. NO, no, no. It's about how they are.

 

[ii kanji]

It's about how they are.

So what (specifically) would make you happy?

 

[TesalionLortus]

Well, I never said I'm "unhappy". I enjoy all things in my own way. Although better execution would be *much* appropriated. It's amazingly weird how much potential is being wasted if it comes to Team Rocket in XY simply because it's this simple, safe or mandatory way. I think you can get a glimpse of what I mean if you read my review. Something is not entirely right, especially if you are a TR fan and I'm sure many people can feel it, even though they won't admit it. And who knows, maybe it's too soon to judge the writers? Maybe they have something in mind for the future of this series and TR? Something that would counter all the negatives? We shall see. But I better don't get my hopes high.

PS: and even though I like this new episode of Musashi, I still find it sooo disturbing... you know, constant motto footage with no special charm, "fixed" and "forced" backstories if it comes to the bonds they share with their Kalos pokemon or eternal pikachu fixation in every single instance of the show as if there were no other options or villainous alternatives for them.

 

[Geodude]

as if there were no other options or villainous alternatives for them.

You do realize that they've executed multiple plots in Kalos that didn't involve trying to catch Pikachu at all right?

 

[TesalionLortus]

as if there were no other options or villainous alternatives for them.

You do realize that they've executed multiple plots in Kalos that didn't involve trying to catch Pikachu at all right?

Indeed, I know... you would probably realise it after reading my full-scale review, though. Which doesn't change the fact that pikachu obession still feels like *too much*. After all, it appeared even today which is just sick. Imagine how more interesting and game-changing it would be if they decided to rob this rich guy's house, don't you think? LOL But no, instead we get pikachu bits yet again. It's very similar to my XY069-XY070 dissapoitment. Heh, and yes, on the other hand it's not like those multiple plots that didn't involve trying to grab pikachu are something *extraordinary*. They were usually weaker than their older eps, well, sometimes even weaker and more mandatory than their DA eps. Even Kalos Queen subplot gets less attention than any other series if we consider Jessie and pokemon perfomances. Remember that times when Jessie actually practiced a lot or interacted with various trainers during such events? So well, I love her perfomances in XY but that's it. Minute or two on the stage, perhaps another minute later on or "by the way", her (or Kojiro's) short reaction at the end but nothing more, nothing less. The best part is: it woudn't be even so bad overall if they only got "more" and "better" in their usual episodes.