Writers' Workshop General Chat Thread

[Serverus Snope]

Come to think of it, the Togepi line doesn't get as much flak as I expected despite having plenty of Sue ammunition: cute throughout its evolutionary line, rare, evolves via happiness, hates strife (which is perfect for Purity Sues)...

Probably because that's almost a direct rip-off from Gold and his togepi in the Special manga.

...Huh? From what I'm seeing, Gold's Togepi is unusually violent for his species. Meanwhile, it's the Pokedex that claims Togekiss hates strife.

 

[Lugion]

But they do appear more than the game-verse would justify with strong trainers. They're kind of like Salamence in that regard; very few Sue-ish OCs will have a Salamence but you can bet someone else in the story will.

Honestly, I think that's because it'd be REALLY boring to just give every one of your characters the same common Pokémon.

 

[Persephone]

There are seldom seen Pokemon that aren't common that could also be distributed. You could always throw on a Whiscash onto your trainer instead of a Milotic in order to make them stand out, or have them use a Kingdra/Flygon/Druddigon instead of a Salamence.

The real issue is that in an effort to make their trainer special and stand out, people default to using the same "special" mons so ironically their characters are still really generic.

 

[Serverus Snope]

There are seldom seen Pokemon that aren't common that could also be distributed. You could always throw on a Whiscash onto your trainer instead of a Milotic in order to make them stand out, or have them use a Kingdra/Flygon/Druddigon instead of a Salamence.

The real issue is that in an effort to make their trainer special and stand out, people default to using the same "special" mons so ironically their characters are still really generic.

My choice is between Milotic and Golduck because both could fit the character. The character is a timid psychic who has trouble controlling his powers (especially when he's panicking.) On one hand, he could have a psychic duck who could counter his powers directly. On the other, Milotic is said to have a calming aura. And then there are the other factors. Psyduck is his first capture in Oreburgh Gate and is competent even in its unevolved form. Meanwhile, while Milotic would be harder to evolve, I already have an idea for her nature.

...Actually, maybe Golduck would be better from a logical standpoint. Learning to control his powers is a key motivation for him and raising a Feebas right off the bat sounds like it would require a lot of patience, more than even he can bear. He already has a Togepi that can only fight by Pecking things and relying on the RNG of Metronome. It's a good thing they've been friends for over a year before the journey (and ever since the Togepi hatched,) because Togepi needs to evolve before level 14 to even get a reliable attacking move (save for Peck as an Egg Move.)

 

[Lord Kyuubi]

It sounds to me as if you know what you're working with at least. You could always, if you can't decide, let the character get both pokemon at some point. Milotic seems like it might be too powerful to have really early in a story (or maybe not, depending on what you're up against, but it would be a stark contrast to togepi anyway) so maybe your character should get the psyduck/golduck early on, and if you still want to write in a milotic, there's no reason why not to have one later.

Having Metronome as a main move is an interesting idea, and sounds like it could be quite fun. You could certainly make every battle different while training it. One possible pitfall to look out for though is suddenly getting a very powerful and convenient move just when they needed it in an important battle, like a gym leader or something, which might be a bit Deus Ex Machina-y. But it's certainly a fun idea and could work out well.

Since the topic came up, what's the general opinion on commonly-used pokemon? I personally am not that bothered, but that could be partly due to not reading that much fanfiction generally. But I guess if I had to take a view, I'd say it's probably okay as long as the pokemon is used in a comparatively original way, I guess.

 

[Serverus Snope]

In this story, though, gym battles aren't really the focus. They just train at some of the gyms between chapters so they can level their Pokemon and gain clearance to train stronger Pokemon. Instead, his traveling partner wants to be a Coordinator who specializes in Tough contests. He joins her to train his powers somewhere other than home. That's the focus of the story until the real plot kicks off.

Although his traveling partner mentions what did happen in his gym battle. Togepi gets a lucky Metronome... against Geodude. He evolves just in time to become weak to Onix's Rock Throw.

 

[Beth Pavell]

Since the topic came up, what's the general opinion on commonly-used pokemon? I personally am not that bothered, but that could be partly due to not reading that much fanfiction generally. But I guess if I had to take a view, I'd say it's probably okay as long as the pokemon is used in a comparatively original way, I guess.

It's hard to say. Fanfiction in general sets far too much store in "originality" in original characters, and that includes pokémon. If you read enough, you will end up finding similar concepts being repeated.

Having said that, I have noticed that a lot of fanfiction authors - not so much here, funnily enough - have trouble thinking outside the box when it comes to pokémon. The box here being the competitive value pokémon have in the games. A lot of pokémon are flat out overlooked even when it comes to supporting or incidental roles. I guess that's a pet peeve of mine

 

[LightningTopaz]

I don't care if you are author 5 billion and one that uses Pikachu or you decide to give your hero a Dunsparce--if you have a good story to tell, I'll read it.

 

[Tophat Dragoneye]

I'll second LightningTopaz' statement. As long a good story is being told and the characters are good, both human and Pokémon, it doesn't matter what kind of Pokémon that are being used in it.

 

[Serverus Snope]

Since the topic came up, what's the general opinion on commonly-used pokemon? I personally am not that bothered, but that could be partly due to not reading that much fanfiction generally. But I guess if I had to take a view, I'd say it's probably okay as long as the pokemon is used in a comparatively original way, I guess.

It's hard to say. Fanfiction in general sets far too much store in "originality" in original characters, and that includes pokémon. If you read enough, you will end up finding similar concepts being repeated.

Having said that, I have noticed that a lot of fanfiction authors - not so much here, funnily enough - have trouble thinking outside the box when it comes to pokémon. The box here being the competitive value pokémon have in the games. A lot of pokémon are flat out overlooked even when it comes to supporting or incidental roles. I guess that's a pet peeve of mine

Yeah, "BE FRIGGIN' ORIGINAL" doesn't guarantee a story that people will actually like. Farla's demonstrated it, and so have I... regrettably. In a past story that I'd rather not dredge from the depths. None of my characters were Mary-Sues or had overused Pokemon, but nobody cared (I presume. At least nobody cared to review it.)

 

[Beth Pavell]

Since the topic came up, what's the general opinion on commonly-used pokemon? I personally am not that bothered, but that could be partly due to not reading that much fanfiction generally. But I guess if I had to take a view, I'd say it's probably okay as long as the pokemon is used in a comparatively original way, I guess.

It's hard to say. Fanfiction in general sets far too much store in "originality" in original characters, and that includes pokémon. If you read enough, you will end up finding similar concepts being repeated.

Having said that, I have noticed that a lot of fanfiction authors - not so much here, funnily enough - have trouble thinking outside the box when it comes to pokémon. The box here being the competitive value pokémon have in the games. A lot of pokémon are flat out overlooked even when it comes to supporting or incidental roles. I guess that's a pet peeve of mine

Yeah, "BE FRIGGIN' ORIGINAL" doesn't guarantee a story that people will actually like. Farla's demonstrated it, and so have I... regrettably. In a past story that I'd rather not dredge from the depths. None of my characters were Mary-Sues or had overused Pokemon, but nobody cared (I presume. At least nobody cared to review it.)

I daresay you'll find it's a different kind of community here, if you're used to fanfiction.net

 

[BinkVallen]

I don't read much pokemon fanfiction outside of this site, but I'll throw in my too cents anyway. If I got to choose, I would pick a journey fic where the main character has some underused pokemon over one of the same quality but with more popular pokemon. I'm shallow like that. But mostly I don't mind too much. What I really want is for the pokemon to be treated as actual characters are not as glorified props. If your pokemon have personality, I'm not going to care what species they are. If they don't have personality, I won't care about anything about them, including their species. I guess my preference for unusual pokemon is more important with incidental or background pokemon that don't play a huge role. Having a wider variety of pokemon running around makes the world feel richer and more complete.

By the way, is Absol considered overused? I haven't seen anyone complain about it, but it seems like the kind of pokemon that would show up a lot. Again, I haven't read too many fics, so I wouldn't know. I'm not going to change my fic or feel guilty if it is (I have plot-relevant reasons for choosing the species beyond coolness factor), but I'm curious.

 

[Serverus Snope]

Meh, I only wrote a single incomplete story there. I'm not terribly used to the site, especially not its community. Do people fret excessively over arbitrary things over there? Kind of like what this fic veers toward when it's not occasionally giving decent advice?

 

[Beth Pavell]

Meh, I only wrote a single incomplete story there. I'm not terribly used to the site, especially not its community. Do people fret excessively over arbitrary things over there? Kind of like what this fic veers toward when it's not occasionally giving decent advice?

Honestly, I think you're getting too fixated on the Mary Sue concept. This is one of the reasons I personally am fed up with it. It's like the whole character creation process is about arguing over what constitutes a flaw ... anyway, as far as the Workshop is concerned I've noticed that people tend to be better disposed towards reviewing a reviewer. People who just post chapters and never contribute anything else don't get much in the way of attention. Oh, and don't be afraid to use The Review Game! If nothing else you might find yourself discovering a story you hadn't noticed before

 

[Arkadelphiak]

Meh, I only wrote a single incomplete story there. I'm not terribly used to the site, especially not its community. Do people fret excessively over arbitrary things over there? Kind of like what this fic veers toward when it's not occasionally giving decent advice?

Let us love you, Serverus Snope!!

On a more serious note, you'll find that this community is very open-minded and supportive of its writers. Life is for telling stories, and we would love to see yours. And to all you lurkers out there, we want your input too! Don't be shy!

 

[Persephone]

Why Mary Sues, com mons, and cliche matter in Pokemon: An-abridged-by-Rediamond-standards rant

Spoiler

Most non-erotic or minimally-erotic Pokemon Fan Fiction is on fanfiction.net. That's just how life works in the community, and most writers in the fandom are at least influenced by the site. Due to the enormous volume of Pokemon fan fics in particular on the site, it's hard to get attention and easy to lose it. Especially if you're writing OC journey fics, which are generally not favored on the site except for a select few that get really popular.

Common starters and overused mons are generally a sign of bad writing. Even in the rare fic that ends up good where the trainer gets a Riolu, Eevee, or Pikachu on their tenth birthday because Oak was out of the usual starters, in the minds of a reader it's competing with the thousands of other fics on the site that start that way and it had damn well better do something that convinces them to stick with this particular fic or they'll ditch it after the first chapter or two. Same goes with "Mary Sue" traits.

So the problem with Sue-ish characteristics and common rare mons is two-fold: 1) You'll probably lose already uncommon readers by not taking an opportunity to make the fic stand out and 2) most writers using Sue-ish traits and common rare mons are actually god awful on ff.net. That doesn't help factor #1.

Here it's less of a big deal because people will probably keep reading, readers are easier to come by for non-shipping fics, and the OC journey is almost the dominant story type in the absence of anime-centric stories. And we also have fewer god awful writers and most of the ones we get either leave when their thread gets closed, leave when they get repeatedly criticized, leave when they get ignored, or actually take the advice and become better writers. So common rare mons and borderline Sues are much less important here than on ff.net, but for most of the Pokemon fan fiction community those are very big deals for anyone hoping to get readers.

Absol is a lot like Miltoic and Salamence. It generally doesn't appear early, so it averts some of the stereotypes but it's still used more than (arguably) any dark type but Greninja and maybe Weavile or Tyranitar. Excluding Darkrai of course.

 

[Serverus Snope]

[Insert mini-rant here]

Absol is a lot like Miltoic and Salamence. It generally doesn't appear early, so it averts some of the stereotypes but it's still used more than (arguably) any dark type but Greninja and maybe Weavile or Tyranitar. Excluding Darkrai of course.

Ah, so the locale matters more than it seems. The bigger the community, the quicker people next a story if it doesn't hold their interest.

 

[FullMoon]

This all makes me wonder, is the Golett line even popular as a starter Pokémon? I know Golurk is a fairly popular Pokémon but I haven't heard of many fics with one as a main character.

 

[Flaze]

These last two days have been hell on earth.

 

[AetherX]

actually take the advice and become better writers

Represent.

I have no real idea what the cliches of Pokemon fanfiction are, to be honest. Like others, I only read the stuff here, which is better than average. Hell, I don't think most people can agree on most of what's cliche (similar to the definition of Mary Sue, actually). For example, I've had different people tell me that the Magnemite family is either cliche or underused.

@Flaze; What did you do?