Least favourite primary paired versions?

[Puddle]

Following on from the "least favourite enhanced version" and "least favourite remake" threads, which pair of games do you think got its respective generation off to the worst start?

 

[Hidden Mew]

I'll go for Red/Blue. While I enjoyed playing through them back in the day and they are the start of the franchise, they're also barely playable. The movepools are terrible, many of the mechanics like TMs and the limited number of items in a bag make it more frustrating than it needs to be, making the only Ghost types part Poison so that Psychic attacks would still hit them are was a horrible mistake and there is virtually nothing to do after capturing Mewtwo. The amount of Kanto favoritism over the years doesn't help matters either. For all of their own flaws, I think each of the following generations had an overall better start than R/B did both gameplay and story wise.

 

[Esserise]

I'll go for Red/Blue. While I enjoyed playing through them back in the day and they are the start of the franchise, they're also barely playable. The movepools are terrible, many of the mechanics like TMs and the limited number of items in a bag make it more frustrating than it needs to be, making the only Ghost types part Poison so that Psychic attacks would still hit them are was a horrible mistake and there is virtually nothing to do after capturing Mewtwo. The amount of Kanto favoritism over the years doesn't help matters either. For all of their own flaws, I think each of the following generations had an overall better start than R/B did both gameplay and story wise.

Yeah, I think I'll largely cosign this, although I'm not bothered by any "Kanto favoritism."

On the one hand, I feel a little bad for picking Red & Blue because it feels like the easy way out. It's like, "Oh, of course the oldest, most mechanically fucked games in the series are your least-favorite." "Why would you say something so controversial yet brave?" etc. But know that it's not that I don't have criticisms of all the others - it's just that, absent any nostalgia for Red & Blue, they really are very messy and mechanically broken. Literally every other main pair has been vastly more composed and balanced and bugtested upon release. Even when I was a kid, I found them frustrating and eventually gave up on them without finishing. I have never actually reached the Elite Four in Red, Blue, or Yellow, nor will I. Back then it was too hard, and these days there's just better ways to spend my time. But I do still have a huge amount of respect and appreciation for the vision of those games and for what they managed to accomplish and how they were able to connect with people.

 

[Phosphene]

(Ignore the fact that these are Yellow sprites)
I'm going to have to go with Red and Blue/Green. As stated by others in this thread, without the haze of nostalgia, these games cannot really compare to the leaps and bounds their successors have over them. For example, even something as simple as the day/night cycle already puts GSC a cut above the first generation in my opinion.

On the one hand, I feel a little bad for picking Red & Blue because it feels like the easy way out. It's like, "Oh, of course the oldest, most mechanically fucked games in the series are your least-favorite." "Why would you say something so controversial yet brave?" etc.

Out of the games I've played (all except the gen 3 ones) and to go with a pick that's a bit less obvious than the messy first and second games of the franchise, I'd have to go with SwSh. I just didn't enjoy these games as much as I did the previous ones. In my opinion the region felt rather shallow in terms of areas to explore; the story felt rushed and poorly written; I disliked some of the characters so much that it poisoned my opinion of the others; in my opinion the music was rather disappointing overall outside of a few tracks; I feel the post-game was somewhat lackluster and had several issues such as the character issue mentioned prior, and the DLCs rubbed salt in that wound considering I believe they would have been the postgame if these games were a bit older; in my opinion the graphics were rather disappointing for a flagship console game; offline Raids are more a chore to me than anything else; the games seemed to have more "paywalls" in my opinion compared to previous ones; I could go on. I made a long, ranting post in the first SwSh discussion thread, and while my strong dislike for the games may have been tempered after another playthrough, I still don't remember them fondly. I know that some of these problems are not exclusive to SwSh, and said games had some good things too such as Camp, but ultimately I just don't like these games as much as the other modern games (I consider gens 4-8 as "modern"; SwSh is definitely better than gens 1 and 2).

 

[Esserise]

Were I to pick a non-RB entry, I think I would be most likely to say Diamond & Pearl or Sun & Moon.

Even setting aside DP’s technical flaws (so let’s imagine that Platinum was the original version, just split in two and without the Distortion World and Battle Frontier), I just don’t think Gen 4 does anything all that interesting. Yes, it elevates the series to a global level of communication, and yes, the physical/special split was absolutely vital, and yes, the soundtrack is absolutely killer (but I say that about every Pokémon game). Red & Blue launched a cultural phenomenon. Gold & Silver infused it with so much life and color and personality. Ruby & Sapphire rebuilt everything and added so much more dimension to the way the game works. But Diamond & Pearl just... kinda coasted. I don’t feel like they offer much that you didn’t already get in Gen 3. Whereas every main pair since Diamond & Pearl has continued to bring big, new ideas to the table. Black & White feel like the games that truly show off what the series can be on the DS. I especially detest the storyline of Diamond & Pearl; none of its beat ideas are explored, Team Galactic are the most hackneyed idiots, and their goal is obviously just trying to one-up Ruby & Sapphire. And, Gen 4 is my least-favorite batch of new Pokémon, so that doesn’t help.

Sun & Moon... it’s interesting how my problems with these games are like the inverse of my problems with DP. SM do a lot of new things and try out tons of fresh, bold ideas, whereas the Gen 6 games felt (comparatively) more typical and tame. But the irony is that Sun & Moon might’ve pushed things too far... the cutscenes drag so hard, this is where they decided dungeons weren’t worth bothering with anymore, and there are some legit straight-up downgrades from Gen 6, most obviously with the Festival Plaza and the lack of utilizing the bottom screen. And like I said in one of the third version threads, USUM show up a year later and shine a flashlight on all sorts of cut corners in SM. Just thinking back on the lag spot before Double Battles makes me feel second-hand humiliation, lol.

Still, I think I’m more likely to rate SM’s ambition and creativity over DP’s marginal advancements in all areas other than Wi-Fi and moves.

I think if I had to cobble together a ranking:

1. Ruby & Sapphire
2. Black & White
3. Gold & Silver
4. Sword & Shield
5. X & Y (this might swap with Sword & Shield depending on my mood, but SwSh have better characters so I’m leaning in their favor at the moment)
6. Sun & Moon
7. Diamond & Pearl
8. Red & Blue

 

[WyndonCalling]

On the one hand, I feel a little bad for picking Red & Blue because it feels like the easy way out. It's like, "Oh, of course the oldest, most mechanically fucked games in the series are your least-favorite." "Why would you say something so controversial yet brave?" etc.

Lol

Yeah, I'll refrain from the Gen 1 pile-on because it's just so difficult to fairly assess them in a vacuum - it's like critiquing cave paintings. Instead, I'll give my vote to Diamond and Pearl. It's a slightly odd choice considering I put more hours into Pearl than perhaps any game other than Gold, and it's really the final codification of the excellent mechanics, but boy have I come to resent the playthrough.

I know Bidoof is a meme and all, but it truly is an awful early-game rodent and it's everywhere. The misses just keep on coming with Kricketot, Budew, Buizel, Buneary, Burmy and more; I know this is a really subjective thing but Sinnoh is just packed with twee, cutesy, weak dross for a huge bulk of the game. I remember seeing the species list before I picked up the titles, and almost everything I was interested in was gatekept to the latter half or even postgame, or otherwise made a massive pain in the arse to get a hold of (honey trees, anyone?).

One of the reasons I find myself slipping back into Kanto and Johto so easily is because the early species in those games can be so gnarly. Spearow, Mankey and Nidoran might not be end-game powerhouses but they're right little terrors and it's very gratifying to be carrying around a team of the beasties. With a tiny handful of notable exceptions and a nod to the Kanto species still hanging around (though that's cheating, really), early Sinnoh teams feel stylistically embarrassing, and team assembly is a huge part of the appeal of the series for me.

 

[CynthiaLover]

I'm going to jump on the anti-Gen 1 train and say RBG are the worst for the same reasons @Hidden Mew stated. They were fine and dandy back in the day, back when things were much simpler, but they're still unplayable, especially today. Whether it be the horrid movepools, limited bag space, terrible TM choices, non-existent post-game or the absurd amount of glitches the games are just not playable. And there really isn't anything to do in them, especially once Mewtwo is bagged and tagged. They're also not fun, especially since grinding it such an annoyance in those games. And the icing on the cake is the never-ending Kanto pandering that's been going on for years has completely turned me off from ever wanting to see Kanto again. So, yeah, Gen 1 and its games were fine back in the day but they're still rather terrible games.

However, if I were to exclude Gen 1 due to the limitations of games back then, then my vote would go to XY. They were basically Kanto 2.0, complete with an idiot plot (that got contradicted every step of the way), the worst villains since TR, the worst rivals to date (yes, even more than Blue), the smallest amount of new Mons to date, the terrible-looking chibi models and the restart of Kanto pandering. Considering that the previous gen, Gen 5, was absolutely glorious, the start of Gen 6 was a very harsh drop in quality. The games are also not fun. Once you get past Korrina and the bulk of the Mega Evolution "plot" they become tedious and boring. At least ORAS handled the Mega Evolution plot better and were more enjoyable, otherwise Gen 6 would've been a very forgettable gen without ORAS picking up some of the slack. So, if I were to omit Gen 1 from the equation due to their limitations back in the 90's, then XY would get my vote instead.

 

[Bolt Strike]

XY. The game is as barebones as it gets for a 3DS game and was a huge step back for the series in a lot of ways that it's never really recovered from. RB and GS were also barebones and yes RB were mechanically flawed, but those games have the excuse of being on older hardware and Game Freak having much less experience back then. They're bad games now, yes, but they were still fun games back then. XY though, they don't have that excuse, there are much better games on the 3DS and Game Freak themselves have even done better games, it was just bad because they refused to improve their skills/workforce/resources to make the kind of game that could make the most of the 3DS (and this has become all the more evident on the Switch with Game Freak remaining stagnant when the hardware is drastically stronger than the 3DS, but at least SwSh is a more polished experience with more to do).

 

[Leaf_Ranger]

Sun and Moon.
Aside from loving Lycanroc, I regret buying Moon to the point where I don't turn the game on anymore. Wouldn't care if Alola (and Galar for that matter) would be erased from history.

The original Red/Blue/Green may be bad nowadays but they were the first and I can still play them. Nostalgia plays a role in it but also the simplicity where I don't have to go through cutscenes, handholding by the rival, side-activities that don't interest me, natures, gender, etc. It's plain and simple: catch them all, battle, collect badges, defeat E4 and along the way ruin the plans for Yakuza.

Edit: trashing the originals seems like saying that black and white tv was bad or that VHS was bad. Respect the "elders" and appreciate them for what they brought and are.

 

[WyndonCalling]

RB and GS were also barebones

Apologies to all for the slight off-topic, but... was it? GS saw probably the single greatest suite of mechanical changes between any instalments. It introduced:

- The first Special split
- Two new types, with fixed interactions (particularly Ghost and Psychic)
- Items
- Weather
- Fixes or tweaks to Roar, Whirlwind, Hyper Beam, Wrapping moves, Substitute, Leech Seed, Toxic, Sleep, Paralysis, Freeze and the crit system
- Giga Drain, Cross Chop, Shadow Ball, Hidden Power, Megahorn, Return, Sludge Bomb, Outrage, Dragonbreath, Sleep Talk, Heal Bell, Pain Split, Curse, Baton Pass, Spikes, Rapid Spin, Spider Web, Mirror Coat, Mean Look, Perish Song and Destiny Bond

And that's just battle mechanics. I think @Esserise made the point in another thread that there's heaps to do on different days of the week and different times of day, even if a lot of it is merely bit-sized or a tad repetitive. There's the weekday siblings, Goldenrod Underground, rare swarms, nighttime and weekday-specific encounters (Lapras and Clefairy), the daily lottery, Viridian Trainer House, rival battles, bug catching contests, ferry trips... and I'm sure there's one or two more I'm likely forgetting.

Abilities were a significant X-factor, to be sure, but the gap between RB and GS is like no other in the series.

 

[Bolt Strike]

Apologies to all for the slight off-topic, but... was it? GS saw probably the single greatest suite of mechanical changes between any instalments. It introduced:

- The first Special split
- Two new types, with fixed interactions (particularly Ghost and Psychic)
- Items
- Weather
- Fixes or tweaks to Roar, Whirlwind, Hyper Beam Wrapping moves, Substitute, Leech Seed, Toxic, Sleep, Paralysis, Freeze and the crit system
- Giga Drain, Cross Chop, Shadow Ball, Hidden Power, Megahorn, Return, Sludge Bomb, Outrage, Dragonbreath, Sleep Talk, Heal Bell, Pain Split, Curse, Baton Pass, Spikes, Rapid Spin, Spider Web, Mirror Coat, Mean Look, Perish Song and Destiny Bond

And that's just battle mechanics. I think @Esserise made the point in another thread that there's heaps to do on different days of the week and different times of day, even if a lot of it is merely bit-sized or a tad repetitive. There's the weekday siblings, Goldenrod Underground, rare swarms, nighttime and weekday-specific encounters (Lapras and Clefairy), the daily lottery, Viridian Trainer House, rival battles, bug catching contests, ferry trips... and I'm sure there's one or two more I'm likely forgetting.

Abilities were a significant X-factor, to be sure, but the gap between RB and GS is like no other in the series.

That's not a lot of extra content, it's basically just a pseudo Safari Zone and a few minor daily events that we see zillions of now. Bite sized and repetitive content really doesn't help the games feel more fleshed out. Pokemon really didn't do much in terms of replay value until we started seeing things like Contests and Secret Bases in RS. GS is much more polished mechanically, yes, and there's definitely more Pokemon and areas than RB, but as far as having enough to do, it's still pretty low and goes in the same tier as XY.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Edit: trashing the originals seems like saying that black and white tv was bad or that VHS was bad. Respect the "elders" and appreciate them for what they brought and are.

I can respect R/B for effectively starting the franchise and the good qualities that they do have, but that doesn't mean that I have to like them a lot either. To be clear, I don't hate R/B. I don't hate any main series game thus far, but I do think it's harder to enjoy R/B nowadays because of its major design flaws. I enjoyed replaying them on the 3DS because of the nostalgia factor, but I don't know if that would work for people who didn't grow up with them.

Plus, I was having a hard time deciding if there was another non-first generation pair I'd want to vote for. I was tempted to vote for X/Y mainly because of how the story and characters felt like a noticeable step backwards from the fifth generation, but I decided against it. I still enjoyed exploring Kalos, I liked a lot of the Pokemon from that generation and there were some cool features like Mega Evolution. Plus, a part of me wonders if I was too harsh on at least its storyline because of comparing it with B/W. Not exploring an Elite 4 member being involved with an evil team was such a wasted opportunity though.

 

[Fan of Jarrus]

Sun and Moon for the tutorial overload. Just let me travel.

 

[RK9]

Sun and Moon.

Needless handholding everywhere, every area looked the same, mediocre Pokémon Designs, a battle mechanic that's a complete and utter downgrade to Megas for me, Hau is a complete scrub (Might just be the worst primary rival we've ever gotten.) and Team Skull is... Let's just say I hold no love for Team Skull, compared to the rest of the fanbase

Now there is some cool stuff like Guzma, the otherwise good characterization on most characters and... the animations for the actual unique Z-Moves. (These are so good. The generic Z-Moves look so meh in comparison it's not even funny. Who's bright idea was it to use genericly boring effects for the regulars and then balls to the walls for the unique ones?), but it's just nowhere near enough for me to redeem the game.

I'm not jumping the RB train cause it's a very easy way out and the first ever games they made at the time. It's a safe and easy pick, and truth be told, someone has to be that first that shows you what is wrong and what not, so I won't pick them cause they did pave the way for the other games. (And I played and finished them recently for the first time ever and I really don't think they're that bad as everyone says. Yes, if you are used to all the moves and such we have now, it's a bit jarring, but personally, I never ran into all the stuff people always say. Makes me wonder what they attempt when playing.)

 

[Aulos]

Pokemon Sun/Moon.

The SOS feature in Pokemon battles is one of the most frustrating things ever. I get that it had some neat easter eggs, and was useful for certain things, but how annoying it is just overpowers any of that. It made traditional training much more frustrating, because now the Pokemon you're training is double teamed all of the time. It made just give up and turn on Exp All.

The difficulty was all over the place. From a clueless rival who used moves like 'Leer' and didn't understand type matchups to other prominent trainers having really powerful Pokemon and better AI that were really frustrating, that even overpowered my overleveled Pokemon.

While the environments thankfully became more 3D, it also feels like they became more small. And fishing was now only in certain places. The game felt very limited compared to other Pokemon games.

The Gen I pandering. Some great regional variants, which was a great idea, but it all being Gen I was ridiculous.

Lots of unappealing Pokemon like Incineroar. Then there are the ultra beasts. I don't talk about the ultra beasts. If they're erased from future games, I'm actually fine with that. Lol.

Then there was the fact that the generation removed the National Dex. Yes, all Pokemon were still available. But only Pokemon from the Alolan Pokedex were counted. Very awkward. Killed my interest in post-game collecting because catching them all did nothing and you'd have to manually count the Pokemon you caught beyond the Alolan Pokedex.

---

I understand and agree with the criticisms of how dated RB/G/Y are. However, the OP asked what pair of games got their generation off to a bad start, which means thinking within the context of when they were released. This doesn't mean that the games are immune from criticism. Not at all. I just prefer to think of each of these pairs when I first got them. RBY are mid-low tier with that in mind. Not bottom tier like S/M.

 

[WyndonCalling]

In my opinion the region felt rather shallow

Just to briefly pick up on this one point out of a post I'm otherwise in broad agreement with - I felt Galar was perhaps the least shallow region of all when it comes to world-building. The towns are tiny and often barren of content, but to poach my thoughts from another thread:

...I'd go so far as to say that Galar in particular might be the best rendition of a UK facsimile I've ever seen. A lesser team might have copied and pasted variations on Hammerlocke and Postwick ad infinitum, but GF managed to capture the UK's musical culture, sporting obsession, industrial heritage, post-industrial coastal towns, and more besides. Obviously, this speaks to the influence of James Turner, but I'd have a lot of confidence that GF can do full justice to any real-world location they draw inspiration from.

And that's to say nothing of the long-awaited contextualisation of the league challenge, what it means to the trainers and wider region, and what's expected of the gym leaders. I could make sense of Galar's relationship with Pokemon battles more than in any other generation.

 

[Phosphene]

Just to briefly pick up on this one point out of a post I'm otherwise in broad agreement with - I felt Galar was perhaps the least shallow region of all when it comes to world-building. The towns are tiny and often barren of content, but to poach my thoughts from another thread:

Ah. When I said shallow, I meant it in a more literal sense: that the region was rather on the barebones side in terms of stuff to explore. Sorry that wasn’t clear.

 

[Lanstar]

Pokemon Moon was the first Pokemon I regretted buying. It had cutscene overload, tutorial/handholding overload, incredibly empty towns, minimal exploration, a severely downgraded wifi system compared to Gen. 6, and hardly any postgame content at all. I just could not stand to start a new game file, as going through it all again would have felt quite agonizing - the epitome of 'disposable' content.

I won't deny that the music was wonderful, the story was interesting, and I liked quite a lot of the pokemon designs and various characters. But the gameplay and ingame features themselves is why I enjoy playing Pokemon the most - and without it being good, I might as well rather watch an anime series than play a game. At least the original Red/Green had some replayability in comparison: You could still replay them from the start and have fun with many of the gameplay elements, however glitched the games were.

 

[LukeLucario6]

X and Y. Something about the region and the graphics and pretty much everything about that era of the franchise rubbed me the wrong way. I only played X for a year and then ditched the game in favor of Alpha Sapphire and then Sun.

 

[Puddle]

It's interesting how the "least favourite" threads always turn out to be more popular than the "favourite" threads. There's only so much praise you can give something before you run out of things to say, whereas constructive criticism tends to lead to more interesting discussions. The same applies to all topics, not just Pokemon.

My least favourites are Red and Blue, but they do still have some redeeming qualities. They might be clunky, and some of the sprites are terrible, but they're at least significant for being the very first Pokemon games, which sometimes gives me an incentive to replay them for that original Pokemon experience. I actually played Red for the first time when it came out on the 3DS (as a child I only had Yellow) and found it surprisingly fun. The battle animations are fast, and I appreciate the game's simplicity: you don't have to think about abilities, natures or even genders when choosing a new teammate (I tend to ignore natures in the later games anyway, but I still obsess over what gender and ability I should choose for each Pokemon). I also love being able to catch Mew using the glitch, but this wasn't supposed to be in the game so maybe it doesn't count.

I thought about voting for Diamond and Pearl instead just to balance things a bit, but couldn't bring myself to. Even if they have less excuse for being flawed than the Gen I games do, I still like them better on the whole. Sometimes I feel like playing Pearl over Platinum because of the nostalgia factor and the more iconic sprites (some of the Pokemon in Platinum have really awkward poses).

I'm really surprised to see so many votes for Sun and Moon. I hold those games in high regard because of their storyline, which is second only to Black and White's. I'll admit, though, that the overabundance of dialogue and tutorials sometimes makes Sun and Moon a bit of a slog for me to replay, depending on my mood, and to say that I dislike the Festival Plaza would be an understatement.

I'm also surprised not to see any votes for Sword and Shield yet. They've been been a topic of contention in the fandom for some time, so I thought they would have received at least one vote by now. I'm still stubbornly sticking by Sword and Shield as my favourite games, in spite of their flaws, because I love the region so much. It's nice to see them being treated a bit more kindly than I was expecting.