BDSP Pokédex speculation

[Puddle]

ILCA can’t just say, “Nah, we don’t like that, we’re adding all the Pokémon.” They’d run into the exact same issues.

Another thing to consider is that if ILCA included all the Pokemon, they'd be setting a precedent and Game Freak would come under fire for not doing the same in their future releases. If they want the controversy to die down, they need to be consistent and stick with their decision.

They're not gonna do that

I honestly find it unlikely that we'll even have the 493, and we'll just have the Pokemon you could find in the wild/get gifted/could trade for in Platinum. But as stated above, if we do get the 493, I'll be thrilled to reuse some old friends

Between Diamond, Pearl and Platinum, all Pokemon can be caught apart from the starters, and most of the legendaries, from other regions. I could see them repackaging Gen 4's National Dex as an expanded Sinnoh Dex, which you receive in the postgame and which includes all of the catchable Pokemon. The starters and legendaries could, like in Sword and Shield, exist in the game's code and be available to transfer in via HOME, but not appear in the Dex.

The Pokemon which previously only appeared if you inserted a GBA cartridge could become Poke Radar encounters instead.

 

[RileyXY1]

The Pokemon which previously only appeared if you inserted a GBA cartridge could become Poke Radar encounters instead.

The PokeRadar already has a sizable number of Pokemon already, that would just bloat the feature.

 

[Greninjaman]

Coding Pokémon into the game isn’t something that can be done with the snap of a finger; it takes time and effort, and the more Pokémon there are, the more time and effort it takes. Eventually, there become so many Pokémon that a wall is hit, and that’s why Dexit happened, and why it will continue to happen. Fundamentally, it’s not even really a policy so much as GF just accepting reality. ILCA can’t just say, “Nah, we don’t like that, we’re adding all the Pokémon.” They’d run into the exact same issues.

The only way we’ll be seeing every Pokémon in a single game again is if they commit to patching them in through post-release updates and DLC. But it’s not even clear right now if the last 230 are going to make it into SwSh, and I would think BDSP would be an even lower priority.

I agree with this. This is why I was not bothered by Dexit. I saw it coming since the number of Pokemon grew. I fail to see the point of all the backlash. Why don't people see that it takes time and effort to code in Pokemon. While the Switch COULD hold them all, the amount of time and effort needed to do so would mean that other things would not get enough time to be worked on.

 

[Esserise]

The PokeRadar already has a sizable number of Pokemon already, that would just bloat the feature.

I don't think it would be that hard to edit or streamline. Let's take a look at Platinum's Poké Radar roster, just for example:

Route 201 - Nidoran F/M
Route 202 - Sentret
Route 204 - Sunkern
Route 205 (South) - Hoppip
Route 205 (North) - Slowpoke
Route 206 - Baltoy
Route 207 - Stantler
Route 208 - Smeargle
Route 209 - Kirlia
Route 210 (South) - Tauros / Miltank
Route 210 (North) - Bagon
Route 211 - Tyrogue
Route 212 (South) - Grimer
Route 212 (North) - Smeargle
Route 213 - Swellow
Route 214 - Poochyena
Route 217 - Piloswine
Route 221 - Nidorina / Nidorino
Route 222 - Flaaffy
Route 225 - Mankey / Primeape
Route 226 - Mankey / Primeape
Route 227 - Torkoal
Stark Mountain - Torkoal
Route 229 - Venonat / Venomoth
Route 230 - Togepi
Lake Verity - Wobbuffet
Lake Valor - Wobbuffet
Fuego Ironworks - Aron
Valley Windworks - Mareep
Eterna Forest - Nincada
Mt. Coronet - Loudred

Now let's look at the GBA slot Pokémon from Platinum:

Seedot / Nuzleaf
Mawile
Zangoose
Solrock
Lotad / Lombre
Sableye
Seviper
Lunatone
Pineco
Shuckle
Teddiursa / Ursaring
Shuckle
Caterpie / Metapod
Ekans / Arbok
Growlithe
Weedle / Kakuna
Sandshrew / Sandslash
Vulpix
Gengar

Now let's create a sample list for what BDSP's Radar pool could look like:

Route 201 - Nidoran F/M
Route 202 - Sentret
Route 204 - Sunkern
Route 205 (South) - Hoppip
Route 205 (North) - Slowpoke
Route 206 - Baltoy
Route 207 - Stantler
Route 208 - Smeargle
Route 209 - Kirlia Seedot / Nuzleaf in BD, Lotad / Lombre in SP (Why not make some of them version-exclusive, just to trim down on overlap. Removing Kirlia from the pool makes sense because Platinum added it to the proper Sinnoh Dex.)
Route 210 (South) - Tauros / Miltank
Route 210 (North) - Bagon
Route 211 - Tyrogue
Route 212 (South) - Grimer
Route 212 (North) - Smeargle
Route 213 - Swellow
Route 214 - Poochyena
Route 217 - Piloswine Teddiursa / Ursaring (Piloswine was added to the Sinnoh Dex.)
Route 221 - Nidorina / Nidorino Ekans / Arbok in BD, Sandshrew / Sandslash in SP (The Nidoran lines are already available through the Radar on Route 201.)
Route 222 - Flaaffy Zangoose / Seviper (While putting Flaaffy in proximity to a lighthouse is cute, Mareep can already be found at the Valley Windworks.)
Route 225 - Mankey / Primeape
Route 226 - Mankey / Primeape Pineco (We don't need a duplicate location for the Mankey line.)
Route 227 - Torkoal
Stark Mountain - Torkoal Lunatone / Solrock (Don't need a duplicate for Torkoal, either.)
Route 229 - Venonat / Venomoth
Route 230 - Togepi (Togepi was added to the Sinnoh Dex in Platinum, but I'm keeping it here since otherwise, you can only receive the one as an Egg, or by breeding. But it's a potentially replaceable slot.)
Lake Verity - Wobbuffet Caterpie / Weedle (Replacing another dupe.)
Lake Valor - Wobbuffet
Fuego Ironworks - Aron
Valley Windworks - Mareep
Eterna Forest - Nincada
Mt. Coronet - Loudred

Shuckle can be turned into a Rock Smash or Great Marsh encounter. Gengar doesn't really need to be retained since Gastly can be found elsewhere. And Mawile and Sableye can just be added to Route 228 or Stark Mountain's normal encounter table (or the post-game section of Victory Road). Not every route has an outbreak Pokémon, either, which could also bear some of the weight.

 

[Kallyle]

And I'd like to note that "Dexit was controversial" isn't an argument for the full 'dex being in these games. Internet outrage clearly did not translate to anything that could have had a meaningful impact on internal decisions like that: SwSh was the most successful Pokémon games since Gold and Silver despite having the cut. Sure, the developers probably took note of the backlash, but since there wasn't any sort of real punishment by fans I don't think we will see the National Pokédex in the near future.

Another thing to consider is that if ILCA included all the Pokemon, they'd be setting a precedent and Game Freak would come under fire for not doing the same in their future releases. If they want the controversy to die down, they need to be consistent and stick with their decision.

I agree with this. This is why I was not bothered by Dexit. I saw it coming since the number of Pokemon grew. I fail to see the point of all the backlash. Why don't people see that it takes time and effort to code in Pokemon. While the Switch COULD hold them all, the amount of time and effort needed to do so would mean that other things would not get enough time to be worked on.

I'd also like to add something to these quotes as well and also address the elephant in the room: Dexit itself was only part of the reason people were mad. The reasoning behind it was to focus on better graphics and game balance, which for many SwSh didn’t seem to meet that reasoning (especially since the Crown Tundra re-introduced every single legendary as opposed to certain Pokémon more appropriate for the region), leading people to believe that it was just PR talk to excuse cutting corners and/or milking the HOME app. People expected bigger trade off with SwSh, and instead it was more like business as usual with other unpopular decisions started in LGPE (codes to connect to others instead of directly connecting to friends, the always-on EXP. Share, and the reduced battle timer that some claim ruined 6-v-6 Single Battles) carrying over and possibly being the norm from now on. Thankfully, Legends: Arceus seems to be actually trying to live up to the reasonings initially given for Dexit in terms of quality over quantity and actually listening to fan feedback somewhat (though to what extent remains to be seen).

For BDSP and future remakes to do as well as past remakes had despite the new policy and the inevitable lack of compatibility between other games that results from it, they need to do more than the bare minimum for the Sinnoh region. That should include an expanded regional Pokédex as well as more than just the roster that was available for DPPt originally, though that probably won’t be by a lot unless other pre-release info gives us an indication otherwise. BDSP by no means will end up failing, but it might not do as well as previous remakes if they don’t have more than what DPPt offered. Otherwise, the only older players will be the very nostalgic crowd will will only play once and never touch the game again, let alone finish it.

On a side note, if TPCi ever did go back on Dexit, they would likely only patch SwSh (as the main competitive game with Dynamax). And even then, that would only be done at the end of the generation as a stall tactic rather than being an indication of going back on that policy due to fan outrage. That way, Game Freak would have more time to finish the next generation.

 

[RileyXY1]

I don't think it would be that hard to edit or streamline. Let's take a look at Platinum's Poké Radar roster, just for example:

Route 201 - Nidoran F/M
Route 202 - Sentret
Route 204 - Sunkern
Route 205 (South) - Hoppip
Route 205 (North) - Slowpoke
Route 206 - Baltoy
Route 207 - Stantler
Route 208 - Smeargle
Route 209 - Kirlia
Route 210 (South) - Tauros / Miltank
Route 210 (North) - Bagon
Route 211 - Tyrogue
Route 212 (South) - Grimer
Route 212 (North) - Smeargle
Route 213 - Swellow
Route 214 - Poochyena
Route 217 - Piloswine
Route 221 - Nidorina / Nidorino
Route 222 - Flaaffy
Route 225 - Mankey / Primeape
Route 226 - Mankey / Primeape
Route 227 - Torkoal
Stark Mountain - Torkoal
Route 229 - Venonat / Venomoth
Route 230 - Togepi
Lake Verity - Wobbuffet
Lake Valor - Wobbuffet
Fuego Ironworks - Aron
Valley Windworks - Mareep
Eterna Forest - Nincada
Mt. Coronet - Loudred

Now let's look at the GBA slot Pokémon from Platinum:

Seedot / Nuzleaf
Mawile
Zangoose
Solrock
Lotad / Lombre
Sableye
Seviper
Lunatone
Pineco
Shuckle
Teddiursa / Ursaring
Shuckle
Caterpie / Metapod
Ekans / Arbok
Growlithe
Weedle / Kakuna
Sandshrew / Sandslash
Vulpix
Gengar

Now let's create a sample list for what BDSP's Radar pool could look like:

Route 201 - Nidoran F/M
Route 202 - Sentret
Route 204 - Sunkern
Route 205 (South) - Hoppip
Route 205 (North) - Slowpoke
Route 206 - Baltoy
Route 207 - Stantler
Route 208 - Smeargle
Route 209 - Kirlia Seedot / Nuzleaf in BD, Lotad / Lombre in SP (Why not make some of them version-exclusive, just to trim down on overlap. Removing Kirlia from the pool makes sense because Platinum added it to the proper Sinnoh Dex.)
Route 210 (South) - Tauros / Miltank
Route 210 (North) - Bagon
Route 211 - Tyrogue
Route 212 (South) - Grimer
Route 212 (North) - Smeargle
Route 213 - Swellow
Route 214 - Poochyena
Route 217 - Piloswine Teddiursa / Ursaring (Piloswine was added to the Sinnoh Dex.)
Route 221 - Nidorina / Nidorino Ekans / Arbok in BD, Sandshrew / Sandslash in SP (The Nidoran lines are already available through the Radar on Route 201.)
Route 222 - Flaaffy Zangoose / Seviper (While putting Flaaffy in proximity to a lighthouse is cute, Mareep can already be found at the Valley Windworks.)
Route 225 - Mankey / Primeape
Route 226 - Mankey / Primeape Pineco (We don't need a duplicate location for the Mankey line.)
Route 227 - Torkoal
Stark Mountain - Torkoal Lunatone / Solrock (Don't need a duplicate for Torkoal, either.)
Route 229 - Venonat / Venomoth
Route 230 - Togepi (Togepi was added to the Sinnoh Dex in Platinum, but I'm keeping it here since otherwise, you can only receive the one as an Egg, or by breeding. But it's a potentially replaceable slot.)
Lake Verity - Wobbuffet Caterpie / Weedle (Replacing another dupe.)
Lake Valor - Wobbuffet
Fuego Ironworks - Aron
Valley Windworks - Mareep
Eterna Forest - Nincada
Mt. Coronet - Loudred

Shuckle can be turned into a Rock Smash or Great Marsh encounter. Gengar doesn't really need to be retained since Gastly can be found elsewhere. And Mawile and Sableye can just be added to Route 228 or Stark Mountain's normal encounter table (or the post-game section of Victory Road). Not every route has an outbreak Pokémon, either, which could also bear some of the weight.

I would much prefer it if they added the formerly dual slot Pokemon to the normal rotation of wild encounters and the Sinnoh Pokedex.

 

[SeanWheeler]

I don't think it would be that hard to edit or streamline. Let's take a look at Platinum's Poké Radar roster, just for example:

Route 201 - Nidoran F/M
Route 202 - Sentret
Route 204 - Sunkern
Route 205 (South) - Hoppip
Route 205 (North) - Slowpoke
Route 206 - Baltoy
Route 207 - Stantler
Route 208 - Smeargle
Route 209 - Kirlia
Route 210 (South) - Tauros / Miltank
Route 210 (North) - Bagon
Route 211 - Tyrogue
Route 212 (South) - Grimer
Route 212 (North) - Smeargle
Route 213 - Swellow
Route 214 - Poochyena
Route 217 - Piloswine
Route 221 - Nidorina / Nidorino
Route 222 - Flaaffy
Route 225 - Mankey / Primeape
Route 226 - Mankey / Primeape
Route 227 - Torkoal
Stark Mountain - Torkoal
Route 229 - Venonat / Venomoth
Route 230 - Togepi
Lake Verity - Wobbuffet
Lake Valor - Wobbuffet
Fuego Ironworks - Aron
Valley Windworks - Mareep
Eterna Forest - Nincada
Mt. Coronet - Loudred

Now let's look at the GBA slot Pokémon from Platinum:

Seedot / Nuzleaf
Mawile
Zangoose
Solrock
Lotad / Lombre
Sableye
Seviper
Lunatone
Pineco
Shuckle
Teddiursa / Ursaring
Shuckle
Caterpie / Metapod
Ekans / Arbok
Growlithe
Weedle / Kakuna
Sandshrew / Sandslash
Vulpix
Gengar

Now let's create a sample list for what BDSP's Radar pool could look like:

Route 201 - Nidoran F/M
Route 202 - Sentret
Route 204 - Sunkern
Route 205 (South) - Hoppip
Route 205 (North) - Slowpoke
Route 206 - Baltoy
Route 207 - Stantler
Route 208 - Smeargle
Route 209 - Kirlia Seedot / Nuzleaf in BD, Lotad / Lombre in SP (Why not make some of them version-exclusive, just to trim down on overlap. Removing Kirlia from the pool makes sense because Platinum added it to the proper Sinnoh Dex.)
Route 210 (South) - Tauros / Miltank
Route 210 (North) - Bagon
Route 211 - Tyrogue
Route 212 (South) - Grimer
Route 212 (North) - Smeargle
Route 213 - Swellow
Route 214 - Poochyena
Route 217 - Piloswine Teddiursa / Ursaring (Piloswine was added to the Sinnoh Dex.)
Route 221 - Nidorina / Nidorino Ekans / Arbok in BD, Sandshrew / Sandslash in SP (The Nidoran lines are already available through the Radar on Route 201.)
Route 222 - Flaaffy Zangoose / Seviper (While putting Flaaffy in proximity to a lighthouse is cute, Mareep can already be found at the Valley Windworks.)
Route 225 - Mankey / Primeape
Route 226 - Mankey / Primeape Pineco (We don't need a duplicate location for the Mankey line.)
Route 227 - Torkoal
Stark Mountain - Torkoal Lunatone / Solrock (Don't need a duplicate for Torkoal, either.)
Route 229 - Venonat / Venomoth
Route 230 - Togepi (Togepi was added to the Sinnoh Dex in Platinum, but I'm keeping it here since otherwise, you can only receive the one as an Egg, or by breeding. But it's a potentially replaceable slot.)
Lake Verity - Wobbuffet Caterpie / Weedle (Replacing another dupe.)
Lake Valor - Wobbuffet
Fuego Ironworks - Aron
Valley Windworks - Mareep
Eterna Forest - Nincada
Mt. Coronet - Loudred

Shuckle can be turned into a Rock Smash or Great Marsh encounter. Gengar doesn't really need to be retained since Gastly can be found elsewhere. And Mawile and Sableye can just be added to Route 228 or Stark Mountain's normal encounter table (or the post-game section of Victory Road). Not every route has an outbreak Pokémon, either, which could also bear some of the weight.

You probably should replace Togepi since Cynthia would give you an Egg anyway, assuming we're getting the Platinum Dex. And if we're getting a full 898 National Pokédex, which is still possible even if many think it's unlikely, I think some Gens 5-8 Pokémon should be the rarer Pokémon in each Poké Radar location instead of the evolutions, while the Gens 1-3 Pokémon we have here are the more common ones. The ones already with two Pokémon can be version exclusives. And where's Growlithe and Vulpix?

 

[Puddle]

You probably should replace Togepi since Cynthia would give you an Egg anyway, assuming we're getting the Platinum Dex.

Perhaps Togepi could appear in the Trophy Garden instead, so that there's still a way to obtain more of them without breeding.

 

[Esserise]

And where's Growlithe and Vulpix?

Did I forget them? Whoops, I suppose I did. Well, it was just an example list, at any rate. Either way, fitting them in is not too big a problem; you could always put something into Togepi's slot and put Togepi in the Trophy Garden as Puddle suggests, and/or simply find another place for Growlithe and Vulpix. Like I mentioned, there's also some free Pokémon outbreak slots.

Part of me likes the idea of having Vulpix and Sandshrew be version-exclusive counterparts, with their Kantonian forms being found at Stark Mountain while their Alolan Forms are found at Mt. Coronet, but obviously that cuts pretty hard against the basic lore of those being Alola forms. I just think it would be neat to show more in-region examples of the Shellos phenomenon.

 

[Puddle]

Part of me likes the idea of having Vulpix and Sandshrew be version-exclusive counterparts, with their Kantonian forms being found at Stark Mountain while their Alolan Forms are found at Mt. Coronet, but obviously that cuts pretty hard against the basic lore of those being Alola forms. I just think it would be neat to show more in-region examples of the Shellos phenomenon.

I haven't played New Pokemon Snap yet, but it appears that...

Spoiler: New Pokemon Snap

...the Alolan forms of Raichu, Sandslash and Vulpix appear in the Lentil region, while Rattata, Sandshrew, Meowth, Geodude, Graveler and Exeggutor appear in their Kantonian forms instead. I have no idea what's going on there, but maybe it means regional variants can appear in other regions too, sometimes alongside their original counterparts?

 

[SeanWheeler]

I haven't played New Pokemon Snap yet, but it appears that...

Spoiler: New Pokemon Snap

...the Alolan forms of Raichu, Sandslash and Vulpix appear in the Lentil region, while Rattata, Sandshrew, Meowth, Geodude, Graveler and Exeggutor appear in their Kantonian forms instead. I have no idea what's going on there, but maybe it means regional variants can appear in other regions too, sometimes alongside their original counterparts?

Of course, since Alolan Pokémon don't transform into the default varients, it is possible for Alolan Pokémon to be brought to another region. Maybe even released into the wild by a trainer who visited Alola. Or smuggled from Alola to another region. Or just got lost. They could definitely end up in Sinnoh in some way. Though a wild encounter would be unlikely.

 

[RileyXY1]

Of course, since Alolan Pokémon don't transform into the default varients, it is possible for Alolan Pokémon to be brought to another region. Maybe even released into the wild by a trainer who visited Alola. Or smuggled from Alola to another region. Or just got lost. They could definitely end up in Sinnoh in some way. Though a wild encounter would be unlikely.

They are available in LGPE through trades and IOA through a sidequest.

 

[SeanWheeler]

The most recent Pokémon presentation showed a lot of Platinum Dex Pokémon. And a screenshot of Bidoof's summary showed the National Dex number #399, and Numel and Slugma have been spotted in the underground map and they weren't in any Sinnoh Dex. That must mean the National Dex is returning!

 

[Phosphene]

I'm also hesitant about all gen 1-4 Pokémon being available; I don't think this will be the case.

Well, this aged like milk. After seeing the screenshot with Bidoof's national 'dex number showing, I think it's all but guaranteed that we will get all gen 1-4 Pokémon returning. I don't see why they'd include national 'dex numbers if they weren't going that route, otherwise you'd have noticeable gaps in the 'dex. However, I don't think we will see much, if any, gen 5+ or regional form representation outside of maybe Pokémon with a connection to previous generations, e.g. Sylveon. And I highly, highly doubt we will see the return of the complete National 'dex as I said in a previous comment.

 

[BlueWaves]

Well, this aged like milk. After seeing the screenshot with Bidoof's national 'dex number showing, I think it's all but guaranteed that we will get all gen 1-4 Pokémon returning. I don't see why they'd include national 'dex numbers if they weren't going that route, otherwise you'd have noticeable gaps in the 'dex. However, I don't think we will see much, if any, gen 5+ or regional form representation outside of maybe Pokémon with a connection to previous generations, e.g. Sylveon. And I highly, highly doubt we will see the return of the complete National 'dex as I said in a previous comment.

They could be using BDSP to patch in the missing Pokémon to SwSh the same way FRLG patched the missing Pokémon in RS.

 

[Phosphene]

They could be using BDSP to patch in the missing Pokémon to SwSh the same way FRLG patched the missing Pokémon in RS.

RS already had those Pokémon in their code while SwSh doesn’t, so I don’t think that’s going to happen, especially considering SwSh and BDSP are developed by two different studios.

Unless you mean that they’re just trying to make all Pokémon available across gen 8, which I still don’t think will happen. The voiceover during the first presents said that you can use all the Pokémon available in the original Diamond and Pearl. With the confirmation of the National Pokédex, I think that line referred to all the possible Pokémon in the original's code. So anything gen 5 and above has a slim chance of being in BDSP in my opinion.

 

[Puddle]

The use of National Dex numbers confirms that all 493 Pokemon from Diamond and Pearl will be in the game, but it also casts some doubt on whether any Pokemon from later games will appear. Because if, say, Sylveon was in the game, what would its number be? 494? That would just be weird. They could make it one of those special extra Pokemon that lacks a Dex entry, like the starters and legendaries in Sword and Shield, but that would also be kind of weird in Sylveon's case because its evolutionary relatives are in the Dex.

If they stuck rigidly to the original roster of 493, what would happen if you transferred in a regional form? Would Galarian Linoone be unable to evolve? Or might they prevent regional forms from being transferred into the game altogether? Will Hisuian Pokemon be transferrable? There are still so many questions!

 

[Johnny Boy]

The use of National Dex numbers confirms that all 493 Pokemon from Diamond and Pearl will be in the game, but it also casts some doubt on whether any Pokemon from later games will appear. Because if, say, Sylveon was in the game, what would its number be? 494? That would just be weird. They could make it one of those special extra Pokemon that lacks a Dex entry, like the starters and legendaries in Sword and Shield, but that would also be kind of weird in Sylveon's case because its evolutionary relatives are in the Dex.

If they stuck rigidly to the original roster of 493, what would happen if you transferred in a regional form? Would Galarian Linoone be unable to evolve? Or might they prevent regional forms from being transferred into the game altogether? Will Hisuian Pokemon be transferrable? There are still so many questions!

Pokemon like Gallade and Probopass were available in the Hoenn remakes. I see nothing stopping them from adding Sylveon. Not to mention she was also available in the remakes for the first Pokemon mystery dungeon games.

 

[Silktree]

If they stuck rigidly to the original roster of 493, what would happen if you transferred in a regional form? Would Galarian Linoone be unable to evolve? Or might they prevent regional forms from being transferred into the game altogether? Will Hisuian Pokemon be transferrable? There are still so many questions!

The many thrills of Dexit.

 

[Norzan]

The many thrills of Dexit.

Gotta love the fact that it now causes people to have to make a ton of questions about several things when it comes to the roster of a new pokemon game, even for a remake.