Where do YOU locate the chances for Dawn/Hikari to stay for Gen 5

[Trainer'sInsomnia]

None of the main characters are sidekicks, thats just stupid.

I guess Max could be seen as one since he was younger and didnt have Pokemon, but he was learning (and smarter than both Ash and May at times)

Brock=Breeder. Misty=Water Pokemon Trainer/Gym Leader. Tracey=Watcher (Its stupid, but at least he has something...)

Just because they have goals does not make them protagonists. A protagonist is one whose goals advance the plot, one whose goals we follow throughout the show, and are responsible for causing the the story to unfold.

Brock has breeder episodes and times where he puts his breeder skills to full use, but those episodes aren't what advance the plot. It's Ash, as he takes us through every region while collecting badges for the league; and May/Dawn to a degree, as they do the same with Contests to a lesser degree. This is the very reason they always ask to "go with" Ash every region, why he's been the fixated character throughout them each, and why it's his journey that the show fixates itself on. And thus, the plot of Pokemon advances for us in doing so.

Brock, Misty, Tracey, and Max, were all support characters. They're major characters, yes, and they're stars, yes, but not the protagonists of the show.
------------

What is so hard about accepting that Satoshi and Hikari are equals in Diamond and Pearl?

Again, when you have to *add* "In Diamond and Pearl" after every time you say it, that doesn't really imply true equality in the characters. So it's really a rather annoying term to be thrown around between the two. She's his costar.

 

[Neko Godot]

It might happen but it's also possible Dawn will stay no matter how much you like your made up patterns and rules...

And why in the heck would the writers keep a relic of the past on the show when they can replace her with a fresh new female face?

 

[Piplup]

Again, when you have to *add* "In Diamond and Pearl" after every time you say it, that doesn't really imply true equality in the characters. So it's really a rather annoying term to be thrown around between the two. She's his costar.

But DP is officially considered a new series so what's the problem? No one says that because she's an equal in DP she will stay for sure but it does make her at least a little more likely to stay than previous characters

And why in the heck would the writers keep a relic of the past on the show when they can replace her with a fresh new female face?

You can say that about Brock too... and it can be nice to see the boy character join rather than the girl once again (or in case of 4 in the group to have 2 girls and 2 boys)

 

[Trainer'sInsomnia]

But DP is officially considered a new series so what's the problem? No one says that because she's an equal in DP she will stay for sure but it does make her at least a little more likely to stay than previous characters

Series? No no, DP is a season of the same Pokemon series. If you've been going around treating it like it was an entirely new "series" then I think that just explained so many things. DP is a season, and therefore it's merely looked at as a piece or saga of the whole show that is Pokemon, just as Kanto, Johto, OI, Hoenn, and BF all are. Unless she stays, she can still be labeled as the gen 4 co star.

And yeah, a little more likely, but that's not much at all.

As Scott said, in an effort to promote the games and such, it's much more likely that there will be a new girl with a new starter, because it's highly unlikely that Dawn would drop Piplup or that they'd let it overshadow the Pokemon of Gen 5. You try to argue how Pikachu is brought through each reason, but that's because he's the icon of Pokemon period. He's pretty much the mascot for the entire show. And before you claim that Piplup is the same, I guarentee you universally, that tons more people would/could recognize Pikachu before that, from different generations at that.

 

[Zeta]

I just thought of something. There is only one chance of Dawn staying on the show, if the fifth Generation finally gives players the option to customize their own character like in Battle Revolution. Then there would be no girl main character, and thus Dawn could feasibly stay. If not, she's out on her ass. It's a feature that a lot of fans have been wanting for quite some while, so we'll see, I guess.

 

[Cybersai]

I just thought of something. There is only one chance of Dawn staying on the show, if the fifth Generation finally gives players the option to customize their own character like in Battle Revolution. Then there would be no girl main character, and thus Dawn could feasibly stay. If not, she's out on her ass. It's a feature that a lot of fans have been wanting for quite some while, so we'll see, I guess.

I just see it as unlikely. If Dawn stays for two gens, that would give her around 400 episodes of screentime in the anime.

The only reason Misty wasn't around that long is because Kanto was so short, and Orange as well, that she only got a little more than 250 eps.

However with how long the gaps between gens are now, we're looking at, at least 200-230 eps for DP, and another 200+ for Gen 5 region...I just don't see it. That would also make 4 Grand Festivals and around 30 Contests for Dawn (assuming), and that is just way too unrealistic for me to believe the writers would do.

I also don't see why Zoey and Kenny deserve to be in the show that long, given they'll likely last as long as Dawn does.

Sure, Brock's been around for 500 episodes, but since he's just a support character, it doesn't matter as much given in most of the eps he's in he gets less than 5 minutes of screentime.

 

[Sleet]

I just thought of something. There is only one chance of Dawn staying on the show, if the fifth Generation finally gives players the option to customize their own character like in Battle Revolution. Then there would be no girl main character, and thus Dawn could feasibly stay.

That is definitely a possibility, but it should be made clear that it wouldn't guarantee Dawn's continuation. They very easily could just make a unique girl with no direct ties to the game, not unlike Tracy, to be the contest girl, or even give her some other purpose.

 

[pikachu200]

I think Haruka should have been the only cooridnator if Hikari decided to be a trainer then she might have a better chance on continuation

 

[pokemon fan 132]

Just because they have goals does not make them protagonists. A protagonist is one whose goals advance the plot, one whose goals we follow throughout the show, and are responsible for causing the the story to unfold.

This isnt always necessarily true,and goals from other characters advance the plot aswell.
It seems that some people still dont understand that anime=/=games.

Brock has breeder episodes and times where he puts his breeder skills to full use, but those episodes aren't what advance the plot.

Except that Brock like any other past main characters advance the plot.Not always but he does.
Ash is just advancing it more compared to Brock,thats all,and even he has a good chunk of episodes which doesnt in any way "advance the plot".

Brock, Misty, Tracey, and Max, were all support characters. They're major characters, yes, and they're stars, yes, but not the protagonists of the show.

So your basically saying how every website(including officiall ones),which listed them as protagonists is wrong and your right?Wow!

You do know they listed them under this section for a reason?I know this is hard for some people to accept but the fact is that Brock,Misty,Tracey and even Max are all protagonists aswell.Just because they had smaller roles than Ash or Dawn doesnt mean anything,especially when we take into consideration what were the circumstances for some of the mentioned above characters having smaller role.

Yes not every website is official source,but they are for sure(like bulbapedia for example) more legit in their informations than someone presumptions without any proof to back them up.

 

[peno]

Series? No no, DP is a season of the same Pokemon series. If you've been going around treating it like it was an entirely new "series" then I think that just explained so many things. DP is a season, and therefore it's merely looked at as a piece or saga of the whole show that is Pokemon, just as Kanto, Johto, OI, Hoenn, and BF all are. Unless she stays, she can still be labeled as the gen 4 co star.

Sorry, but you are wrong here. Like it or not, Pokémon is Japanese anime, therefore only Japanese partings matters. And in Japan, Pocket Monsters anime was parted into three series. Original Pocket Monsters series covers up Kanto, Orange Islands and Johto sagas, Pocket Monsters Advanced Generation covers up Hoenn and Kanto Battle Frontier sagas and the actual and new Pocket Monsters Diamond and Pearl series starts in Japan in September 2006 and still airs. 4Kids's/PUSA's seasons are not relevant here.

And yeah, a little more likely, but that's not much at all.

As Scott said, in an effort to promote the games and such, it's much more likely that there will be a new girl with a new starter, because it's highly unlikely that Dawn would drop Piplup or that they'd let it overshadow the Pokemon of Gen 5. You try to argue how Pikachu is brought through each reason, but that's because he's the icon of Pokemon period. He's pretty much the mascot for the entire show. And before you claim that Piplup is the same, I guarentee you universally, that tons more people would/could recognize Pikachu before that, from different generations at that.

Not to mention how many Pokémon fans actually hate Dawn's Piplup. Gee, sometimes, I think Piplup is probabely the only Pokémon fan who loves Piplup :lol:

 

[PockyAddict]

Not to mention how many Pokémon fans actually hate Dawn's Piplup. Gee, sometimes, I think Piplup is probabely the only Pokémon fan who loves Piplup :lol:

Eh, I love Piplup.

And I never get the hate, maybe cause it has something to due with some forced mascot thing, or that it gets the most attention out of Dawn's pokemon.

 

[Cybersai]

Piplup as a Pokemon isn't that bad, the only reason people have problems with it is how overshowcased it is. It almost brings back memories of how much Ash used to be obsessed with Pikachu in the early seasons.

 

[LightningKimba]

Sorry, but you are wrong here. Like it or not, Pokémon is Japanese anime, therefore only Japanese partings matters. And in Japan, Pocket Monsters anime was parted into three series. Original Pocket Monsters series covers up Kanto, Orange Islands and Johto sagas, Pocket Monsters Advanced Generation covers up Hoenn and Kanto Battle Frontier sagas and the actual and new Pocket Monsters Diamond and Pearl series starts in Japan in September 2006 and still airs. 4Kids's/PUSA's seasons are not relevant here.

In order words... People who watch dubs are 'wrong' about their take on the series? I mean, Dragon Ball Z doesn't still go under the Dragon Ball series?

 

[Sleet]

And I never get the hate, maybe cause it has something to due with some forced mascot thing, or that it gets the most attention out of Dawn's pokemon.

That's exactly it.

Otherwise I love it. It's so cute! ^.^

 

[peno]

In order words... People who watch dubs are 'wrong' about their take on the series? I mean, Dragon Ball Z doesn't still go under the Dragon Ball series?

Wait a minute, what are you babbling about? I don't really understand you here.

Piplup as a Pokemon isn't that bad, the only reason people have problems with it is how overshowcased it is. It almost brings back memories of how much Ash used to be obsessed with Pikachu in the early seasons.

That and the fact how overpowered Piplup is. Not to mention writers don't know how to handle Piplup right and changing its character to be more simmilar to Pikachu. That's wrong. I see this character change even more now, when DP (surprisingly) started in my country, so I rewatch these old DP episodes again, along with new Japanese and English episodes. To be honest, I liked Piplup in the begining, but started to change my opinion on it somewhere around Dawn's second Contest.

 

[Cybersai]

Piplup's alright, I hope we get to see Dawn use more of Mamoswine and Ambipom now.

From the looks of things the next Contest is about Pachirisu though.

 

[Trainer'sInsomnia]

This isnt always necessarily true,and goals from other characters advance the plot aswell.
It seems that some people still dont understand that anime=/=games.

Uh, no, it seems you still don't understand simple terminology and still can't comprehend points or statements well. I'm laughing at your idiotic assumption here. The fact that you think I was even referencing the games shows your general lack of knowledge pertaining to character archetypes or what an actual protagonist is. My definition was that of the protagonist, not a description of what you do in the games or some kind of analogy as to how that translates over to the show. So you're technically making an argument over nothing with that "anime=/=games" nonsense. More like you=/=comprehension.

Yes, that is always true. The protagonist has and always will be the central character whose quest and/or goals progress the plot. There is no exception to this in any literary work or plot possessing anything.

Except that Brock like any other past main characters advance the plot.Not always but he does.
Ash is just advancing it more compared to Brock,thats all,and even he has a good chunk of episodes which doesnt in any way "advance the plot".

Except that, uh, you're wrong. Brock's featured Breeder's episodes are not what advances the plot, and I'm speaking as a fan of his. People could watch the Pokemon series, not watch any of the featured episodes on Brock, and still follow the storyline perfectly. Whereas if you didn't watch any of the gym episodes for Ash or anything pertaining to the league, you'd wonder what the hell the point of the show is. Ash's story and his journeys are what make up the plot. We're following his journey through each league, and his quest to become "A Pokemon Master". Brock's goals, while important for the aspects of his character, do not make up the plot flow.

So your basically saying how every website(including officiall ones),which listed them as protagonists is wrong and your right?Wow!

You do know they listed them under this section for a reason?I know this is hard for some people to accept but the fact is that Brock,Misty,Tracey and even Max are all protagonists aswell.Just because they had smaller roles than Ash or Dawn doesnt mean anything,especially when we take into consideration what were the circumstances for some of the mentioned above characters having smaller role.

Yes not every website is official source,but they are for sure(like bulbapedia for example) more legit in their informations than someone presumptions without any proof to back them up.

Uh, no, me, as well as the actual definition, screen writers, Literature teachers, drama teachers, directors, authors, script writers, and any other figures in charge of some kind of progressive script dating back to ancient Greece or old Europe is correct. In fact, it's because of said sources that I know I'm right. No kind of "proof"? Presumptions? How so?

http://fictionwriting.about.com/od/glossary/g/protagonist.htm
http://edittorrent.blogspot.com/2008/03/what-is-protagonist.html
http://www.yourdictionary.com/protagonist
http://toddalcott.livejournal.com/163210.html
http://www.babylon.com/definition/protagonist/English

Take seventh grade English again if you have to, and don't get upset with me just because you confuse a "major role" with a "protagonist".

 

[Sato]

... Dear god, I actually read all of that?

... Anyway, my stance on things. Dawn has about a 50-50 chance of staying. (I was a little generous with my vote though and said 51-59%... But yeah, 50-50 is probably more accurate.)

Anyway, first a few basic points:

--Ash, Misty, Brock, Tracey, May, Max and Dawn are all 'main characters'.

--Ash, May and Dawn are protagonists.

--Misty, Brock, Tracey and Max are sidekicks. This does not mean they are not main characters.

--Ash/Satoshi was the star (singular) of 'Pocket Monsters' and 'Pocket Monsters: Advanced Generation'.

--Ash/Satoshi and Dawn/Hikari are the stars (plural) of 'Pocket Monsters: Diamond & Pearl'.

--'Pocket Monsters', 'Pocket Monsters: Advanced Generation' and 'Pocket Monsters: Diamond & Pearl' are all different series. Related, yes. But still distinct. (A similar case would be 'Dragon Ball', 'Dragon Ball Z' and 'Dragon Ball GT'.) What the 'Pokémon' dub has to say about this is irrelevant, this is originally a Japanese show.

Ok, my ground points are laid. Time to get building around them.

The original Pocket Monsters series was all about our protagonist Ash as he journeyed to become a Pokémon Master with his sidekicks Misty, Brock and Tracey.

The Pocket Monsters: Advanced Generation series is about the continued adventures of our hero Ash trying to become a Pokémon Master, with an additional plot with a secondary protagonist, May, aiming to become a Top Coordinator. Ash and May are accompanied by their sidekicks Brock and Max.

In Pocket Monsters: Diamond & Pearl, our hero Ash's journey is continued, as he is joined by another primary protagonist, Dawn. Brock is a sidekick as always. In this series, the writers eventually decide to establish Piplup as a mascot similar to Pikachu, and actively involve the Elite Four and Champion in Ash's plot. After 10 years finally explaining their purpose.

Now, it could be that this change in approach is all leading nowhere... But in the off chance it leads somewhere, the cards have effectively been lined up for Ash to take on the Elite Four and Champion, having been established, and potentially retire from the series. Leaving the show's other lead to take over from him. This being Dawn.

As I said, it's highly possible this may go nowhere, just like the GS Ball. But the introduction and explanation of the Elite Four and establishment of Dawn and Piplup as equals to Ash and Pikachu could potentially be leading somewhere...

And as I close out this post, I reiterate again, this is only a mere possibility. This scenario is just as likely as the writers dropping Dawn like a sack of potatoes as Ash continues to the next region with gen V girl.

(... Oh hey! I built a wall of text!)

 

[Xhandin]

I really hope that the Generation V may stay only with the games, and the anime ends, because, the quality will really go down, and down if they make another several episodes of DP series.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

I'm laughing at your idiotic assumption here.

Insulting will get you nowhere.

The fact that you think I was even referencing the games shows your general lack of knowledge pertaining to character archetypes or what an actual protagonist is.

It wasnt that i thought you were referring to the games.I was just pointing something with this,which you obviously didnt understood.

Except that, uh, you're wrong.
Brock's featured Breeder's episodes are not what advances the plot, and I'm speaking as a fan of his.

The same thing i could say about you.It depends what someone consider being advancing the plot and what not.So your basically saying how Misty,Brock,Max or Tracey during their run never advanced the plot and were never in any way being involved in plot?You might want to reconsider this statement.

Just to let you know you kinda contradict yourself with this because Brock has quest aswell,to become top pokemon breeder and we follow his journey of becoming best breeder aswell just in smaller amount compared to Ash.
So by your definition if for example Brock is participating in somekind of sidelong breeding contets(this is just hipothetically),going with Ash in every region receiving smaller amount of screentime than Ash or Dawn does,we would still not follow his journey???

Just for the record someone who receives smaller amount of screentime compared to others is protagonist aswell.Take for example May,she received smaller amount of screentime compare to Dawn or Ash but is without a doubt protagonist.

Uh, no, me, as well as the actual definition, screen writers, Literature teachers, drama teachers, directors, authors, script writers, and any other figures in charge of some kind of progressive script dating back to ancient Greece or old Europe is correct. In fact, it's because of said sources that I know I'm right. No kind of "proof"? Presumptions? How so?

http://fictionwriting.about.com/od/glossary/g/protagonist.htm
http://edittorrent.blogspot.com/2008/03/what-is-protagonist.html
http://www.yourdictionary.com/protagonist
http://toddalcott.livejournal.com/163210.html
http://www.babylon.com/definition/protagonist/English

And your point is?This still doesnt explain the fact why on every pokemon website whether is oficiall or not the said characters are listed under protagonist section,and they are put there for a reason.The fact is that writers and those who are responsible for websites for some reason consider this characters being rather protagonists than sidekicks.Misty,Brock,Max and even Tracey are no matter how strange this seems to you protagonists,and until we receive confirmation from writers or from someone working for the show(which we wont,because we all know what is valid and what not),you basically cant prove why are they considered being protagonists instead of "sidekicks".Deal with it.