American Politics Thread

[Volphied]

I just came back to the US to vote for the first time in seven years, because voting overseas is... terrible. Governor Abbott should thankfully cruise to a victory here in Texas, but it was still nice to get to vote.

From the looks of RCP, the Republicans are looking to capture up to 3 or 4 seats in the Senate, 14 to 48 in the House, and 3 Governorships.

Nice to see you back. Since you were away from Texas for the last seven years, you've missed out on Abbott letting the state freeze during winter due to massive power outages. That was a lot of fun. /s

I remember you mentioning years ago that you liked Trump's views on the immigration issue. Has your opinion changed about Trump, after he got swamped in a gigantic vortex of his own corruption and incompetence? Or when he tried to stage a violent coup because he couldn't handle losing the election?

Since you're voting for Abbott, I'd like to ask a few questions:

What is your opinion about Abbott's transphobic policy of investigating parents of children transitioning genders?

What is your opinion about Abbott telling rape victims to take Plan B instead of having an abortion?

What is your opinion about Abbott calling mass shootings a mental health issues a month after cutting $211 million from mental health commission?

What is your opinion about Abbott asking public for assistance in paying to bus migrants to Washington D.C., and later using Covid funds to pay for them?

What is your opinion about Abbott saying that marijuana pardons will not be happening in Texas?

 

[Big Lutz]

Edit: Final Gallup Poll has a R+6 advantage among the public sentiment, among candidate polls usually the Republicans are tied with Democrats or with the Democrats having the advantage among the public breakdown.

https://twitter.com/IAPolls2022/status/1589263953376706561

Nice to see you back. Since you were away from Texas for the last seven years, you've missed out on Abbott letting the state freeze during winter due to massive power outages. That was a lot of fun. /s

Yes I saw that, my family and friends struggled through that, may I ask, you say Abbott let it happen, was there a certain plan in place before this once in a life time storm that Abbott blocked?

I remember you mentioning years ago that you liked Trump's views on the immigration issue. Has your opinion changed about Trump, after he got swamped in a gigantic vortex of his own corruption and incompetence? Or when he tried to stage a violent coup because he couldn't handle losing the election?

I very much liked Trump's Immigration policies, and I liked much of his presidency. Three years of it was however marred by Democrats engaging in a process to destroy a Presidency because they could not handle losing an election. January 6th turned me against him, and I would rather not see him run again, but I do not believe that he "staged a violent coup"

Since you're voting for Abbott, I'd like to ask a few questions:

What is your opinion about Abbott's transphobic policy of investigating parents of children transitioning genders?

Abbott should be doing more in this, including banning surgeries and hormone blockers for minors, such as what we saw in Florida. There was alot of pressure brought upon Abbott a year or so ago to go further, and he did not. Hopefully after the election he will.

What is your opinion about Abbott telling rape victims to take Plan B instead of having an abortion?

I go back and forth on this, I do not want the rape victim to continue to be traumatized, however I also do not want to punish the child.

What is your opinion about Abbott calling mass shootings a mental health issues a month after cutting $211 million from mental health commission?

That hopefully is a wakeup call that we need more money in mental health services

What is your opinion about Abbott asking public for assistance in paying to bus migrants to Washington D.C., and later using Covid funds to pay for them?

I am fully in support of the Bus Migrants program, it is a great way of showing the rest of the country what the south has to deal with, and in many ways exposes alot of hypocrisy as we saw with some of these mayors.

What is your opinion about Abbott saying that marijuana pardons will not be happening in Texas?

I honestly have no opinion on marijuana either way.

I hope that answered your questions!

 

[Volphied]

Yes I saw that, my family and friends struggled through that, may I ask, you say Abbott let it happen, was there a certain plan in place before this once in a life time storm that Abbott blocked?

Ukraine is quicker to restore its power supply than Texas. That's embarrassing and an indictment of how badly mismanaged things are in Texas. Weatherization standards, something that countries in much colder climates figured out many decades ago, are severely lagging in Texas.

I very much liked Trump's Immigration policies, and I liked much of his presidency.

No comment.

Three years of it was however marred by Democrats engaging in a process to destroy a Presidency because they could not handle losing an election.

How did Democrats "destroy" Trump's presidency? From what I've seen, Trump did a lot of self-destruction on his own.

January 6th turned me against him, and I would rather not see him run again, but I do not believe that he "staged a violent coup"

Right, so January 6th wasn't an attempted coup in your view. So then what was your problem with 1/6 that it made you "turn against him"?

Abbott should be doing more in this, including banning surgeries and hormone blockers for minors, such as what we saw in Florida. There was alot of pressure brought upon Abbott a year or so ago to go further, and he did not. Hopefully after the election he will.

No comment.

I go back and forth on this, I do not want the rape victim to continue to be traumatized, however I also do not want to punish the child.

So what do you then want rape victims to do?

That hopefully is a wakeup call that we need more money in mental health services

Again, Abbott is slashing down mental health services. Republicans in general are against funding mental health services. They will never get a "wakeup call".

I am fully in support of the Bus Migrants program, it is a great way of showing the rest of the country what the south has to deal with, and in many ways exposes alot of hypocrisy as we saw with some of these mayors.

So far the only difference I saw was that blue states seem to treat these people humanely, whereas Abbott only sees them as paws for his political posturing.
For example, Chicago even set up a websites to better coordinate help:

Home

Chicago's Response to New Arrivals Bussed from Texas

www.chicago.gov

Since Wednesday, August 31st, the City of Chicago has welcomed hundreds of migrants bused from Texas to Chicago. Our has city greeted them with dignity and respect, and the City government, in collaboration with local, state, federal, and community partners, continues to take action to ensure they have access to shelter, food, and other resources. We anticipate that the state of Texas will continue to bus migrants to Chicago and we remain committed to providing support and resources to our newly arrived neighbors during this transition period.

I honestly have no opinion on marijuana either way.

Let me reformulate my question. I'm asking what is your opinion on people being thrown into prison for recreational use of it. Shouldn't cops in Texas spent their resources on more pressing issues than chasing weed smokers? Shouldn't Abbott pardon all the Texans who are right now filling prison space for smoking a joint?

 

[Big Lutz]

Ukraine is quicker to restore its power supply than Texas. That's embarrassing and an indictment of how badly mismanaged things are in Texas. Weatherization standards, something that countries in much colder climates figured out many decades ago, are severely lagging in Texas.

That is great, Texas was in the middle of an ice storm, no one, neither Democrat nor Republican expected something as terrible as the ice storm to happen. Nor were their any plans previously to my knowledge to prepare for it.

How did Democrats "destroy" Trump's presidency? From what I've seen, Trump did a lot of self-destruction on his own.

Shall we start the continuously long investigations into what we knew was false information of Russian Interference driven by Democrats and the Clinton campaign acting as sore losers?

Right, so January 6th wasn't an attempted coup in your view. So then what exactly 6/1 was it to make you "turn against him"?

I believe he could have acted quicker and done more to quiet the crowd and pull them back.

So what do you then want?

It is a complex question and one I am still working on myself.

Again, Abbott is slashing down mental health services. Republicans in general are against funding mental health services. They will never get a "wakeup call".

We shall see after the next Texas legislative session.

So far the only difference I saw was that blue states seem to treat these people humanely, whereas Abbott only sees them as paws for his political posturing.
For example, Chicago even set up a websites to better coordinate help:

Home

Chicago's Response to New Arrivals Bussed from Texas

www.chicago.gov

The Blue States have been asking for the national guard to come in with only a fraction of what a Texas border town sees in a day.

Calling busing of migrants from Texas a “humanitarian crisis,” Washington mayor asks for help from National Guard

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott and Arizona Gov. Doug Ducey are sending migrants to the nation’s capital to prove a point about President Joe Biden’s immigration policies.

www.texastribune.org

Let me reformulate my question. I'm asking what is your opinion on people being thrown into prison for recreational use of it. Shouldn't cops in Texas spent their resources on more pressing issues than chasing weed smokers? Shouldn't Abbott pardon all the Texans who are right now filling prison space for smoking a joint?

I would have no problem with that, but it is no a pressing concern for me.

 

[Volphied]

That is great, Texas was in the middle of an ice storm, no one, neither Democrat nor Republican expected something as terrible as the ice storm to happen. Nor were their any plans previously to my knowledge to prepare for it.

Incorrect. This "once in a lifetime" ice storm also happened in 2011, and Texas was warned to fix its grid back then. But the GOP did nothing.

Texas Was Warned a Decade Ago Its Grid Was Unready for Cold

Federal regulators warned Texas that its power plants couldn’t be counted on to reliably churn out electricity in bitterly cold conditions a decade ago, when the last deep freeze plunged 4 million people into the dark.

www.bloomberg.com

Shall we start the continuously long investigations into what we knew was false information of Russian Interference driven by Democrats and the Clinton campaign acting as sore losers?

Of course, let's start with that. If I remember correctly Russian interference was investigated by James Comey, the FBI director, until he was fired by Trump in a fit of rage. Unfortunately for Trump, Comey had created a "paper trail" of memos to document Trump's efforts to influence a continuing investigation. I think that was the first huge scandal that showed how deeply corrupt Trump is.

I believe he could have acted quicker and done more to quiet the crowd and pull them back.

Trump was in the West Wing of the White House at the time of the attack. Staffers said that he was "initially pleased" and refused to intercede when his supporters breached the Capitol. As the riot was ongoing and after senators had been evacuated, Trump placed calls to Republican senators (first Mike Lee of Utah, then Tommy Tuberville of Alabama), asking them to make more objections to the counting of the electoral votes to try to overturn the election. After the June 9 hearing, Republican congressman Tom Rice said: "He watched it happen. He reveled in it. And he took no action to stop it. I think he had a duty to try to stop it, and he failed in that duty."

It is a complex question and one I am still working on myself.

The GOP doesn't see it as a complex question. Do you know why?

We shall see after the next Texas legislative session.

I've seen enough the past decade.

The Blue States have been asking for the national guard to come in with only a fraction of what a Texas border town sees in a day.

From the article you linked:
U.S. Customs and Border Protection Commissioner Chris Magnus has also criticized Abbott’s plan, saying it’s making immigration authorities’ jobs harder. “Governor Abbott is taking actions to move migrants without adequately coordinating with the federal government and local border communities. CBP has always worked closely with and supported border communities in Texas, many of which CBP personnel call home,” he said in a statement in April. “We all have a shared interest in maintaining safe, orderly, and humane immigration processes, and assistance from the state should be carefully coordinated with us.”

I would have no problem with that, but it is no a pressing concern for me.

But abortion is a pressing concern for you? If ordinary Texans having their life ruined after being thrown to prison for smoking weed is no concern to you because it doesn't affect you personally, then why care about abortion when that doesn't concern you, as a male, either.

 

[Big Lutz]

Incorrect. This "once in a lifetime" ice storm also happened in 2011, and Texas was warned to fix its grid back then. But the GOP did nothing.

Texas Was Warned a Decade Ago Its Grid Was Unready for Cold

Federal regulators warned Texas that its power plants couldn’t be counted on to reliably churn out electricity in bitterly cold conditions a decade ago, when the last deep freeze plunged 4 million people into the dark.

www.bloomberg.com

I lived through the Texas snowstorm in 2011, while I was not here for the one last year from everything I have seen, it was no where close to what happened in the previous year. While there was alot of snow, it was no where close to what Texas saw and went through.

Of course, let's start with that. If I remember correctly Russian interference was investigated by James Comey, the FBI director, until he was fired by Trump in a fit of rage. Unfortunately for Trump, Comey had created a "paper trail" of memos to document Trump's efforts to influence a continuing investigation. I think that was the first huge scandal that showed how deeply corrupt Trump is.

Lets go further back then that. Lets go to the decision the day after the election by the Clinton Campaign to push Democrats and the Media to say Russia stole the election as documented in the book "Shattered". Lets go further and look into how the FBI acted incredibly poorly in this situation, from partisan agents, sting operations, to knowingly using false documents in the Steele Dossier

Trump was in the West Wing of the White House at the time of the attack. Staffers said that he was "initially pleased" and refused to intercede when his supporters breached the Capitol. As the riot was ongoing and after senators had been evacuated, Trump placed calls to Republican senators (first Mike Lee of Utah, then Tommy Tuberville of Alabama), asking them to make more objections to the counting of the electoral votes to try to overturn the election. After the June 9 hearing, Republican congressman Tom Rice said: "He watched it happen. He reveled in it. And he took no action to stop it. I think he had a duty to try to stop it, and he failed in that duty."

Yes, all of which turned me against him.

The GOP doesn't see it as a complex question. Do you know why?

As it involves the life of a baby

From the article you linked:
U.S. Customs and Border Protection Commissioner Chris Magnus has also criticized Abbott’s plan, saying it’s making immigration authorities’ jobs harder. “Governor Abbott is taking actions to move migrants without adequately coordinating with the federal government and local border communities. CBP has always worked closely with and supported border communities in Texas, many of which CBP personnel call home,” he said in a statement in April. “We all have a shared interest in maintaining safe, orderly, and humane immigration processes, and assistance from the state should be carefully coordinated with us.”

And? The overall point is still getting through, I understand CBP wants to maintain a safe and orderly process, but the open border is not a safe and orderly process, and the plan is to have the sanctuary cities feel the pain the border towns are going through, meaning they experience the uncertainty, danger, and randomness of the migrants showing up.

But abortion is a pressing concern for you? If ordinary Texans having their life ruined after being thrown to prison for smoking weed is no concern to you because it doesn't affect you personally, then why care about abortion when that doesn't concern you, as a male, either.

Where did I ever say abortion was a pressing concern to me?

 

[Volphied]

I lived through the Texas snowstorm in 2011, while I was not here for the one last year from everything I have seen, it was no where close to what happened in the previous year. While there was alot of snow, it was no where close to what Texas saw and went through.

From the article I linked: 4 million Texans were left in the dark in 2011. In the 1989 storm (another "once in a lifetime" snowstorm), wind chills reached 14 degrees below zero in Texas, forcing power plants to operate below capacity or fail to start altogether. And after that storm, as with the 2011 episode, regulators issued a slate of recommendations aimed at improving winterization. “These recommendations were not mandatory, and over the course of time implementation lapsed,” FERC and NERC said in their 357-page report in 2011. “Many of the generators that experienced outages in 1989 failed again in 2011.” So to summarize: there were three (3) "once in a lifetime" snowstorms, each time the power grid catastrophically failed, and the recommendations to winterize the same generators that failed in 1989 and again in 2011 were completely ignored by a callous GOP, leading to the disaster in 2021.

Lets go further back then that. Lets go to the decision the day after the election by the Clinton Campaign to push Democrats and the Media to say Russia stole the election as documented in the book "Shattered". Lets go further and look into how the FBI acted incredibly poorly in this situation, from partisan agents, sting operations, to knowingly using false documents in the Steele Dossier

Lets go forward in time. On December 9, 2019, U.S. Inspector General Michael Horowitz testified to the House Judiciary Committee that the FBI showed no political bias during the investigation of Trump and the Russian government. In a December 2021 interview on FOX News, Trump admitted that he fired Comey because the FBI was investigating his administration’s ties to Russia. This is obstruction of justice, regardless of whether Trump believes that the FBI is biased against him.

Yes, all of which turned me against him.

You mean Trump's coup attempt?

As it involves the life of a baby

A zygote is not a baby.

And? The overall point is still getting through, I understand CBP wants to maintain a safe and orderly process, but the open border is not a safe and orderly process, and the plan is to have the sanctuary cities feel the pain the border towns are going through, meaning they experience the uncertainty, danger, and randomness of the migrants showing up.

What danger?

Where did I ever say abortion was a pressing concern to me?

When you labeled it a complex problem. You said yourself that you go "back and forth on this", despite it not affecting you at all. Why not treat it with the same indifference you show to people imprisoned for smoking a joint?

 

[Big Lutz]

From the article I linked: 4 million Texans were left in the dark in 2011. In the 1989 storm (another "once in a lifetime" snowstorm), wind chills reached 14 degrees below zero in Texas, forcing power plants to operate below capacity or fail to start altogether. And after that storm, as with the 2011 episode, regulators issued a slate of recommendations aimed at improving winterization. “These recommendations were not mandatory, and over the course of time implementation lapsed,” FERC and NERC said in their 357-page report in 2011. “Many of the generators that experienced outages in 1989 failed again in 2011.” So to summarize: there were three (3) "once in a lifetime" snowstorms, each time the power grid catastrophically failed, and the recommendations to winterize the same generators that failed in 1989 and again in 2011 were completely ignored by a callous GOP, leading to the disaster in 2021.

Again I was not here in 2021 so I cannot compare but if you wish to do a deep dive I have a feeling the 2021 and 2011 storms were not comparable.

Lets go forward in time. On December 9, 2019, U.S. Inspector General Michael Horowitz testified to the House Judiciary Committee that the FBI showed no political bias during the investigation of Trump and the Russian government. In a December 2021 interview on FOX News, Trump admitted that he fired Comey because the FBI was investigating his administration’s ties to Russia. This is obstruction of justice, regardless of whether Trump believes that the FBI is biased against him.

This is the same FBI that danced around the Steele dossier and had Peter Strzok leading an investigation correct?

You mean Trump's coup attempt?

I would not call it a coup attempt on Trump's part.

A zygote is not a baby

That is a matter of opinion.

What danger?

You do not see any danger in having millions of unfettered people be able to enter the country with out any documentation, idea where they are going, any potential criminal associations, etc etc etc?

When you labeled it a complex problem. You said yourself that you go "back and forth on this", despite it not affecting you at all. Why not treat it with the same indifference you show to people imprisoned for smoking a joint?

Maybe we are caught up here on word choices, and if that is my fault I apologize.

Complex Problem: Something that has numerous sides to an issue that have valid points and should be debated, studied, and understood.

Pressing Issue: Something that must be done immediately.

Just because something is a pressing issue does not make it a complex problem, similarly just because something is a complex problem does not make it a pressing issue. I do not see marijuana amnesty or abortion as pressing issues, as it seems the vast majority if America believes similarly. If I have any anyway led you to believe that I do, I apologize.

 

[Volphied]

Again I was not here in 2021 so I cannot compare but if you wish to do a deep dive I have a feeling the 2021 and 2011 storms were not comparable.

The power generators that failed in 1989, failed again in 2011 and then in 2021. You'd think the GOP would winterize them after the second time they failed, but no. The recommendations by FERC and NERC to winterize them were completely ignored. So in summary, you were incorrect to say that nobody warned Abbott.

This is the same FBI that danced around the Steele dossier and had Peter Strzok leading an investigation correct?

Let's move to November 7th, 2022. This news just dropped:

Putin ally Yevgeny Prigozhin admits interfering in US elections

Russian businessman and founder of Wagner Group, says interference will continue as midterms loom

www.theguardian.com

"The Internet Research Agency (IRA) is a Russian company based in St. Peterburg which is engaged in online influence operations on behalf of Russian business and political interests. It is sometimes described as a “troll farm” and is linked to Russian oligarch Yevgeny Prigozhin, a wealthy associate of Russian President Vladimir Putin. In February 2018, a United States grand jury indicted 13 Russian nationals and 3 Russian entities, including the Internet Research Agency and Prigozhin, on charges of violating criminal laws with the intent to interfere with U.S. elections and political processes in support of the presidential candidacy of Donald Trump. The indictment said that the IRA sought to wage “information warfare” against the United States and to “sow discord” in the American political system by using fictitious American personas and social media platforms and other Internet-based media."

I would not call it a coup attempt on Trump's part.

The same time senators were being evacuated due to an ongoing attack by a frenzied MAGA mob, Trump was calling GOP senators and asking them to make more objections to the counting of the electoral votes to try to overturn the election. After the June 9 hearing, Republican congressman Tom Rice said: "He watched it happen. He reveled in it. And he took no action to stop it. I think he had a duty to try to stop it, and he failed in that duty." If this isn't an attempted coup, then nothing is.

That is a matter of opinion.

Fact's don't care about opinions. And the scientific fact is that a zygote is not a baby.

You do not see any danger in having millions of unfettered people be able to enter the country with out any documentation, idea where they are going, any potential criminal associations, etc etc etc?

I had it happen to me when millions of Ukrainians crossed the border into my country. Even housed three Ukrainians in my house. I'm still alive.

I do not see marijuana amnesty or abortion as pressing issues, as it seems the vast majority if America believes similarly.

About six-in-ten Americans say abortion should be legal in all or most cases

A majority of U.S. adults say abortion should be legal in all or most cases; 37% think abortion should be illegal in all or most cases.

www.pewresearch.org

Support for Legal Marijuana Holds at Record High of 68%

More than two in three Americans (68%) support legalizing marijuana, matching the record high reached a year ago.

news.gallup.com

 

[Big Lutz]

Let's move to November 7th, 2022. This news just dropped:

Putin ally Yevgeny Prigozhin admits interfering in US elections

Russian businessman and founder of Wagner Group, says interference will continue as midterms loom

www.theguardian.com

"The Internet Research Agency (IRA) is a Russian company based in St. Peterburg which is engaged in online influence operations on behalf of Russian business and political interests. It is sometimes described as a “troll farm” and is linked to Russian oligarch Yevgeny Prigozhin, a wealthy associate of Russian President Vladimir Putin. In February 2018, a United States grand jury indicted 13 Russian nationals and 3 Russian entities, including the Internet Research Agency and Prigozhin, on charges of violating criminal laws with the intent to interfere with U.S. elections and political processes in support of the presidential candidacy of Donald Trump. The indictment said that the IRA sought to wage “information warfare” against the United States and to “sow discord” in the American political system by using fictitious American personas and social media platforms and other Internet-based media."

So using fictious American personas on social media accounts via a troll farm is now worth three years of investigation in calling a Presidency illegitimate in an attempt to undermine it?

The same time senators were being evacuated due to an ongoing attack by a frenzied MAGA mob, Trump was calling GOP senators and asking them to make more objections to the counting of the electoral votes to try to overturn the election. After the June 9 hearing, Republican congressman Tom Rice said: "He watched it happen. He reveled in it. And he took no action to stop it. I think he had a duty to try to stop it, and he failed in that duty." If this isn't an attempted coup, then nothing is.

I have no doubt he took glee in it, but I would say a coup attempt would require planning and actual forethought on his part. The prior rally he told those that he wanted the public to march down peacefully and patriotically to have their voices heard. There was no attempt by Trump to say to storm the Capital, especially since the actual attack was happening while Trump was still speaking.

Fact's don't care about opinions. And the scientific fact is that a zygote is not a baby.

And yet, I said it is a matter of opinion.

I had it happen to me when millions of Ukrainians crossed the border into my country. Even housed three Ukrainians in my house. I'm still alive.

That is great, and a very kind thing for you to do. Now imagine millions crossing your border not because of a war but because of economic reasons, now stretch it out for years, decades. The southern Border received 2 million migrants this year alone, it is a constant unending stream.

Those coming from Ukraine had documentation and were coming from what can be largely considered a first world country, in that it has a proper record keeping system of its civilians and accessible to other countries. The same cannot be said for many Central and South American countries

About six-in-ten Americans say abortion should be legal in all or most cases

A majority of U.S. adults say abortion should be legal in all or most cases; 37% think abortion should be illegal in all or most cases.

www.pewresearch.org

Support for Legal Marijuana Holds at Record High of 68%

More than two in three Americans (68%) support legalizing marijuana, matching the record high reached a year ago.

news.gallup.com

In the top ten issues American voters are facing right now, abortion barely ranks within the top 10. Marijuana does not even make the list.

Key facts about U.S. voter priorities ahead of the 2022 midterm elections

As Election Day approaches, here’s a look at voters’ issue priorities, based mainly on a Pew Research Center survey conducted Oct. 10-16.

www.pewresearch.org

In the latest CNN poll only 15 percent of Americans ranked Abortion as their top issue right now.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/05/politics/voters-issues-economy-midterms-2022

 

[Volphied]

So using fictious American personas on social media accounts via a troll farm is now worth three years of investigation in calling a Presidency illegitimate?

How long has been Trump pushing birtherism in order to call Obama an illegitimate President? How many years did the GOP spent investigating Benghazi only for it to go nowhere? Never mind. The fact remains that a hostile foreign country worked to undermine the US election, and Trump tried to obstruct investigation of it by sacking Comey.

I have no doubt he took glee in it, but I would say a coup attempt would require planning and actual forethought on his part.

"Trump is too incompetent to pull off a successful coup".... doesn't really disprove the fact that he intended to overthrow the government. Again, he was ringing senators and demanding they cease the certifications, even as a violent MAGA mob was attacking the Capitol

There was no attempt by Trump to say to storm the Capital, especially since the actual attack was happening while Trump was still speaking.

According to testimony from Cassidy Hutchinson, a Secret Service official had warned Trump that protestors were carrying weapons, but Trump wanted the magnetometers used to detect metallic weapons removed so armed supporters could enter the rally. According to Hutchinson, when warned, Trump said: I don't fucking care that they have weapons, they're not here to hurt me. They're not here to hurt me. Take the fucking mags away. Let my people in. They can march to the Capitol from here, let the people in and take the mags away.

And yet, I said it is a matter of opinion.

And yet, facts don't have opinions. That a zygote is not a baby is a scientific fact.

Now imagine millions crossing your border not because of a war but because of economic reasons,

Poor people. Life in their homelands must be horrible if they're willing to risk such a dangerous trek to the US. They need help. They don't need vilification.

Those coming from Ukraine had documentation and were coming from what can be largely considered a first world country, in that it has a proper record keeping system of its civilians and accessible to other countries. The same cannot be said for many Central and South American countries

Can you tell me more about the record keeping system of Central and Southern American countries? Name the specific countries too, please.

Also, I find it really funny that you say that Ukraine is "largely considered a first world country". You have no idea how many truly vicious stereotypes there exist about Ukraine (and the rest of Eastern Europe). "Drunk, illiterate, squatting thugs", is only the start. It gets really racist afterwards. Many people called Ukrainians "dangerous" too, you know?

I've sheltered Ukrainian migrants, and I would do the same to Southern American migrants.

In the top ten issues American voters are facing right now, abortion barely ranks within the top 10. Marijuana does not even make the list.

Key facts about U.S. voter priorities ahead of the 2022 midterm elections

As Election Day approaches, here’s a look at voters’ issue priorities, based mainly on a Pew Research Center survey conducted Oct. 10-16.

www.pewresearch.org

Thanks for linking PewResearch. Gonna quote this part from it:
The issue of abortion rose sharply in perceived importance after the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade in June. Between March and August, the percentage of registered voters who rated abortion as a very important election issue spiked 13 percentage points, from 43% to 56%. That share held steady through the fall: As of October, 56% of registered voters say abortion will be very important to their midterm vote.

 

[Big Lutz]

How long has been Trump pushing birtherism in order to call Obama an illegitimate President? How many years did the GOP spent investigating Benghazi only for it to go nowhere? Never mind. The fact remains that a hostile foreign country worked to undermine the US election, and Trump tried to obstruct investigation of it by sacking Comey.

And you have no problem that the Clinton Campaign set out to set the stage for all of this after losing? Or that the FBI purposely used false information and withheld facts to keep this going?

"Trump is too incompetent to pull off a successful coup".... doesn't really disprove the fact that he intended to overthrow the government. Again, he was ringing senators and demanding they cease the certifications, even as a violent MAGA mob was attacking the Capitol

According to testimony from Cassidy Hutchinson, a Secret Service official had warned Trump that protestors were carrying weapons, but Trump wanted the magnetometers used to detect metallic weapons removed so armed supporters could enter the rally. According to Hutchinson, when warned, Trump said: I don't fucking care that they have weapons, they're not here to hurt me. They're not here to hurt me. Take the fucking mags away. Let my people in. They can march to the Capitol from here, let the people in and take the mags away.

I am merely looking at his words from his speech to his supporters and the timing of the first break in of the Capital.

And yet, facts don't have opinions. That a zygote is not a baby is a scientific fact.

Yet we are not discussing scientific fact we are discussing the opinions that make up the political reality of the situation.

Poor people. Life in their homelands must be horrible if they're willing to risk such a dangerous trek to the US. They need help. They don't need vilification.

And they should get help in their own country or in the one closest to provide aid, instead they continue to come into the US and overwhelm these towns, which is why Abbott is bussing them to sanctuary cities. Living in poverty should not be an excuse to break another country's laws.

Can you tell me more about the record keeping system of Central and Southern American countries? Name the specific countries too, please.

Most of the illegal immigration right now is coming from the countries that make up the "Northern Triangle" El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras specifically, although with the destruction of Venezuela from the socialist policies and corruption placed on that country we are seeing a greater uptick there as well.

Thanks for linking PewResearch. Gonna quote this part from it:
The issue of abortion rose sharply in perceived importance after the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade in June. Between March and August, the percentage of registered voters who rated abortion as a very important election issue spiked 13 percentage points, from 43% to 56%. That share held steady through the fall: As of October, 56% of registered voters say abortion will be very important to their midterm vote.

Note, even at that percentage it ranks only 9th in terms of top issues of Americans

 

[Volphied]

And you have no problem that the Clinton Campaign set out to set the stage for all of this after losing? Or that the FBI purposely used false information and withheld facts to keep this going?

Let's go back to my previous response. On December 9, 2019, U.S. Inspector General Michael Horowitz testified to the House Judiciary Committee that the FBI showed no political bias during the investigation of Trump and the Russian government. In a December 2021 interview on FOX News, Trump admitted that he fired Comey because the FBI was investigating his administration’s ties to Russia. This is obstruction of justice, regardless of whether Trump believes that the FBI is biased against him.

I am merely looking at his words from his speech to his supporters and the timing of the first break in of the Capital.

And I am looking at his intentions, such as him demanding to let armed people to march on the Capitol, and then , once senators were hiding from the mob, he began ringing them demanding to stop the certification.

Yet we are not discussing scientific fact we are discussing the opinions that make up the political reality of the situation.

We're discussing the observed scientific fact that a zygote is not a baby.

And they should get help in their own country or in the one closest to provide aid,

What if their own country is unable to help them? What if the closest country to them is unable to provide aid?

instead they continue to come into the US and overwhelm these towns,

How exactly do they "overwhelm" these towns?

Most of the illegal immigration right now is coming from the countries that make up the "Northern Triangle" El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras specifically, although with the destruction of Venezuela from the socialist policies and corruption placed on that country we are seeing a greater uptick there as well.

Alright, can you now tell me about the record keeping system of El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras? Venezuela too, I guess.

Note, even at that percentage it ranks only 9th in terms of top issues of Americans

56% of registered voters saying abortion will be very important to their midterm vote is still a lot.

 

[Big Lutz]

Let's go back to my previous response. On December 9, 2019, U.S. Inspector General Michael Horowitz testified to the House Judiciary Committee that the FBI showed no political bias during the investigation of Trump and the Russian government. In a December 2021 interview on FOX News, Trump admitted that he fired Comey because the FBI was investigating his administration’s ties to Russia. This is obstruction of justice, regardless of whether Trump believes that the FBI is biased against him.

And again I note that does not match reality with how the FBI acted later tonight I will provide a more detailed list on the FBI malfeasance

And I am looking at his intentions, such as him demanding to let armed people to march on the Capitol, and then , once senators were hiding from the mob, he began ringing them demanding to stop the certification.

And again that does not suggest directing people to engage in a coup or having foreknowledge that they would engage in a coup. I would be more inclined to agree with you if the break ins were not happening while Trump was speaking.

We're discussing the observed scientific fact that a zygote is not a baby.

No, I believe the original quote was.

The GOP doesn't see it as a complex question. Do you know why?

Thus I was talking about the opinions of the political situation.

What if their own country is unable to help them? What if the closest country to them is unable to provide aid?

Then I would suggest working within their own country to fixing it, or appealing to the UN for help.

How exactly do they "overwhelm" these towns?

In large part it is taking away resources, land, shelter, etc away from the towns and being used to feed and take care of the migrants. It is not hard to imagine that a small town is unable to take in a sudden influx of 20,000 people a day.

Alright, can you now tell me about the record keeping system of El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras? Venezuela too, I guess.

I would guess the police and military corruption of those countries would be self evident. Just doing a quick glance at the article it seems the Atlantic Council's opening few paragraphs lay the groundwork for this. Combatting corruption in the Northern Triangle: Prioritizing a whole-of-society approach

56% of registered voters saying abortion will be very important to their midterm vote is still a lot.

It is, but there are many more issues driving Americans to the polls right now, the economy being the top one in poll after poll.

 

[Volphied]

And again I note that does not match reality with how the FBI acted later tonight I will provide a more detailed list on the FBI malfeasance

Cool, I hope the House Judiciary Committee will get to see your list too, since you seem to know more than the U.S. Inspector General.

And again that does not suggest directing people to engage in a coup or having foreknowledge that they would engage in a coup. I would be more inclined to agree with you if the break ins were not happening while Trump was speaking.

According to testimony from Cassidy Hutchinson, a Secret Service official had warned Trump that protestors were carrying weapons, but Trump wanted the magnetometers used to detect metallic weapons removed so armed supporters could enter the rally. According to Hutchinson, when warned, Trump said: I don't fucking care that they have weapons, they're not here to hurt me. They're not here to hurt me. Take the fucking mags away. Let my people in. They can march to the Capitol from here, let the people in and take the mags away.

Then I would suggest working within their own country to fixing it,

Wow, it's so simple. We should tell Biden to work on it. And the Atlantic Council should report about it.

or appealing to the UN for help.

The same UN conservatives love to accuse of being useless?

In large part it is taking away resources, land, shelter, etc away from the towns and being used to feed and take care of the migrants.

Wait, are you implying that migrants are forcing Americans from their shelters? As in their houses? Can you post any examples of American towns losing their land, resources and shelter to migrants? Over a million Ukrainians moved trough my country and I've never heard of any loses of land, resources or shelter to them in my country or anywhere else in Europe.

It is not hard to imagine that a small town is unable to take in a sudden influx of 20,000 people a day.

I don't think those 20,000 people want to stay in that small town. Nevertheless, towns in my country had to manage many more Ukrainian refugees. Why can't the state of Texas handle something a much smaller European country can?

I would guess the police and military corruption of those countries would be self evident. Just doing a quick glance at the article it seems the Atlantic Council's opening few paragraphs lay the groundwork for this. Combatting corruption in the Northern Triangle: Prioritizing a whole-of-society approach

From your Atlantic Council article:
Breaking the vicious cycle of corruption in the region will require a holistic, long-term approach that brings together governments, civil society, and businesses under a common anti-corruption agenda with bold, innovative, and locally driven policy solutions. As the situation at the US southern border worsens, the Joseph R. Biden Jr. administration is devoting resources and strategic focus to addressing the drivers of migration (the previous brief in this series focused on the role of the private sector in unlocking economic growth in the Northern Triangle), placing a special emphasis on building capacities, strengthening existing cooperation with local partners, and finding new spaces for collaboration to combat corruption over the long term in Central America.

Good guy Biden. Working hard to fix their countries.

It is, but there are many more issues driving Americans to the polls right now, the economy being the top one in poll after poll.

So then why did the GOP decided to humiliate themselves by losing a referendum on abortion in Kansas of all places?

 

[Volphied]

 

[Big Lutz]

Cool, I hope the House Judiciary Committee will get to see your list too, since you seem to know more than the U.S. Inspector General.

Looks like the House Republicans are already on it, I would not be surprised if we saw something in the next session once Republicans take control of the house.

Republicans Release 1,000 Page Report on FBI & DOJ Politicization - House Judiciary Committee Republicans

Today, House Judiciary Republicans released a new report, “FBI Whistleblowers: What Their Disclosures Indicate About the Politicization of the FBI And Justice Department,” detailing a rampant culture of unaccountability, manipulation, and abuse at the highest level. The thousand-page report...

republicans-judiciary.house.gov

According to testimony from Cassidy Hutchinson, a Secret Service official had warned Trump that protestors were carrying weapons, but Trump wanted the magnetometers used to detect metallic weapons removed so armed supporters could enter the rally. According to Hutchinson, when warned, Trump said: I don't fucking care that they have weapons, they're not here to hurt me. They're not here to hurt me. Take the fucking mags away. Let my people in. They can march to the Capitol from here, let the people in and take the mags away.

Yes, Trump was not afraid the crowd was going to hurt him, he wanted the people in there as fast as possible so that the speech could get started, that does not suggest he actively encouraged or was trying to get those people to go to the capital to use their weapons. Not to mention, again, I reiterate, the attack on the capital happened, while Trump was speaking.

The same UN conservatives love to accuse of being useless?

Then this would be a great time to "own the cons" and have the UN step up and work on fixing the situation in these countries!

Wait, are you implying that migrants are forcing Americans from their shelters? As in their houses? Can you post any examples of American towns losing their land, resources and shelter to migrants? Over a million Ukrainians moved trough my country and I've never heard of any loses of land, resources or shelter to them in my country or anywhere else in Europe.

I don't think those 20,000 people want to stay in that small town. Nevertheless, towns in my country had to manage many more Ukrainian refugees. Why can't the state of Texas handle something a much smaller European country can?

That is great, I am sure for a short stable period of time your town and country would be doing fine. Texas has been dealing with the an open border for decades and it has only gotten worse and worse. I do not really think it is comparable to say your town or country did okay, when the Southern Border deals with a million to two million every year, constantly, with no stop for several decades. The two are no where near comparable.

Something closer would be the refugee crisis that Europe went through a few years back from the Middle East, Europe could not withstand a year or two of that before they began to harshly crack down on their borders.

From your Atlantic Council article:
Breaking the vicious cycle of corruption in the region will require a holistic, long-term approach that brings together governments, civil society, and businesses under a common anti-corruption agenda with bold, innovative, and locally driven policy solutions. As the situation at the US southern border worsens, the Joseph R. Biden Jr. administration is devoting resources and strategic focus to addressing the drivers of migration (the previous brief in this series focused on the role of the private sector in unlocking economic growth in the Northern Triangle), placing a special emphasis on building capacities, strengthening existing cooperation with local partners, and finding new spaces for collaboration to combat corruption over the long term in Central America.

Good guy Biden. Working hard to fix their countries.

That is great, he can also implement the procedures Trump had in place the previous few years during COVID which drove the numbers down, instead of resending them and leading to one of the worst border years in history.

So then why did the GOP decided to get humiliated by losing a referendum on abortion in Kansas of all places?

No clue, most likely it was a state trigger law built in. I did not write the bill.

 

[zoroarctic]

the attack on the capital happened, while Trump was speaking.

This is not a compelling argument, and it gets much less so when you look at what was said both at the rally and in the weeks leading up to the attack.

 

[RileyXY1]

So then why did the GOP decided to humiliate themselves by losing a referendum on abortion in Kansas of all places?

And not only that, a top tier GOP candidate in a swing NY district lost a special election when all the forecasters had them win. And now, five states will directly have abortion on the ballot, those being Vermont, Michigan, California, Kentucky, and Montana. California, Vermont, and Michigan have ballot proposals that if passed would guarantee the right to an abortion in those states, and I believe that all three of those will pass. Kentucky has a ballot proposal that is mostly identical to the one in Kansas, and Montana has one that will make it a crime for doctors to fail to save the life of a fetus born alive, even after an attempted abortion. If Kansas is anything to go by these might not pass either, considering that these two states are just as red as Kansas. These ballot proposals could also help Democratic candidates like Rudy Salas, Christy Smith, Jay Chen, Will Rollins, Hillary Scholten, and Carl Marlinga win their respective elections, along with boosting downballot candidates that could lead to Michigan having a Democratic trifecta for the first time in decades.

 

[Big Lutz]

This is not a compelling argument, and it gets much less so when you look at what was said both at the rally and in the weeks leading up to the attack.

Could you please expand on that?

Trump is many things, but at his heart he seems to be a showman. Planning the capital attack while he is speaking takes the attention away from him, something that he loathes to happen. It also cancels out his plans to march down to the capital and speak in front of it, something he repeatedly said he was planning to do.

It just seems more plausible it was a spontaneous event pushed by the fervor of the crowd already down there, combined with the lack of security to push back against the crowd.