Ash's future after Journeys

[Die-Hard Dragon Devotee]

If Ash wins the PWC, I absolutely can't see him going back to being a rookie and collecting good old badges. Either he'll leave the show or they'll have to come up with a totally new concept like time travels or different dimensions, a sit was indicated in SM and Journeys.

Exactly, thank you. That's how I feel. And this is coming from someone who loved the Gym Badge quest, mind you. Seeing Ash and his friends out on the open road, on a grand adventure.......nothing like it. That being said, it just feels like......Ash is past Gym Badges now. Like you said, it would it just make him look like a rookie again, and I'm very much done with them resetting Ash's skill level (and appearance, hah! ) In all seriousness, though, if they want to keep Ash as a main character, they'll have to introduce something grander, like the time-travel thing or different dimensions as you stated. Either that, or this really is Ash's swan song as the main character and he'll be replaced by someone else, or more likely, kept as a recurring character of sorts, perhaps. And ngl, after more than 17 years of my life spent following this guy's adventures, I would be sad to see him go as the (main) character. But, I also want to see him progress in his goals and his life, instead of stagnating doing the same old "travel around, get Gym Badges, weeee," thing he's done for 3/4 of my life.

 

[Beatsy Ray]

I still do not understand why some fans think gyms are out of the question for Ash's future. He will always want to challenge strong trainers to test his skills, and that can include gym leaders in a gym setting. It all comes down to how the lore is managed and what the leader's strength is relative to other trainers in the series (like in Sword and Shield, where gym leaders are meant to be extremely challenging and on the level of the Elite 4 in some regions). My point is that it is not impossible to see Ash challenging gyms again just because of his current and past accomplishments.

I'm looking at it the other way. If the writers intended to maintain the status quo of Gym circuit + league, they wouldn't have introduced the PWC, or they wouldn't have made it as stacked as they did. That was the only reason for Ash's 20-year long losing streak. World Champion isn't something they can slide under the rug as easily as Orange League Champion. They won't be able to have Ash lose to a random Gym Leader willy-nilly, or that person will be considered a legend for beating the World Champion. I also believe they're well aware at this point that they won't get away with another BW-style reset. This signals to me that they desire to, and have now committed to mixing up the status quo and drastically changing up the formula.

The only problem is it seems kind of impossible to raise the stakes at this point. Leon and Cynthia basically represent the skill ceiling of this universe, and it would be unrealistic to portray the SV region as a race of super-human Pokemon gods that conveniently sat the PWC out. I personally don't see them introducing any crazy sci-fi concepts like alternate universes/time travel as a main premise, because it wouldn't really fit the spirit of the series. For that reason, I still haven't ruled out Ash being replaced, even if it's hard to imagine and I don't want that personally. It's not impossible though, say Rica Matsumoto voiced her desire to leave the series or retire from voice acting.

I'm operating under the assumption that Ash wins the PWC, because he always wins against rivals with actual build-up (except Alain, but hold that thought). Leon finally losing is also arguably the most important part of his story arc, so it would be awkward for him to remain world champion despite everything. Worst case scenario, Ash still beats Cynthia, so the situation wouldn't be much different anyway.

 

[Sai]

Gyms as a concept are over for Ash, but he could still battle Gym leaders. For example he battled Bea and Raihan in the PWC (as well as Korrina, Volkner, Iris, Marnie, etc), who were all Gym leaders at points. So he could still battle the characters themselves, just not for a badge quest

 

[Emmy]

They won't be able to have Ash lose to a random Gym Leader willy-nilly, or that person will be considered a legend for beating the World Champion.

I don’t see this as being an issue since they already had Champion-Level Ash lose to a Gym Leader (Bea) and no one in universe made a fuss over it, plus when Ash returns to Alola he is still hailed as their undisputed Champion.

The Title might be larger but the concept of the writers only remembering continuity when it’s convenient.

 

[Sai]

I don’t see this as being an issue since they already had Champion-Level Ash lose to a Gym Leader (Bea) and no one in universe made a fuss over it, plus when Ash returns to Alola he is still hailed as their undisputed Champion.

The Title might be larger but the concept of the writers only remembering continuity when it’s convenient.

He was using a baby Riolu at the time and Pikachu had trouble dealing with Grapploct's tentacles. Basically Ash losing is ok, it just depends what pokemon he uses.

 

[SlyGecko]

If Ash does the gym quest, that would be 100% fine with me. Remember, Ash does use a new team every series, and just because he is a champion, doesn't mean every new pokemon he catches is going to automatically be champion leveled.

 

[Beatsy Ray]

I don’t see this as being an issue since they already had Champion-Level Ash lose to a Gym Leader (Bea) and no one in universe made a fuss over it, plus when Ash returns to Alola he is still hailed as their undisputed Champion.

Just because Ash was the Alola Champion doesn't mean he was on the same level as the other Champions. Both Ash's and Bea's power level at the time was probably comparable to a traditional Elite 4 member. Compared to being Champion of a niche region like Alola, Ash will most likely be a worldwide celebrity by the end of this series, and be held to a different standard.

 

[Kurolegacy]

While I respect your opinion, remember that no matter how strong a gym leader may be, they're still weaker than the level of trainers Ash is currently going up against. I don't think Ash would want to fight weaker opponents than what he's currently aiming for. Besides, Ash is more than likely beyond the E4 in terms of strength now anyway. They (or anyone as strong as them,) wouldn't pose much of a challenge anymore.

Gotta hard disagree on that. Ash has never been the type of person who had an elitist mentality. Even when he defeated the Battle Frontier, in which it was even stated that the Frontier Brains were above Gym Leaders, including Brandon, someone who literally has Legendary Pokémon as half of his team, he still went on to challenge Sinnoh’s League simply because his battle with Gary gave him a preview of what Sinnoh held. So long as there’s another challenge out there for him to face, Ash is all about it because he enjoys seeing what the world holds for him and chases that.

 

[Die-Hard Dragon Devotee]

Gotta hard disagree on that. Ash has never been the type of person who had an elitist mentality. Even when he defeated the Battle Frontier, in which it was even stated that the Frontier Brains were above Gym Leaders, including Brandon, someone who literally has Legendary Pokémon as half of his team, he still went on to challenge Sinnoh’s League simply because his battle with Gary gave him a preview of what Sinnoh held. So long as there’s another challenge out there for him to face, Ash is all about it because he enjoys seeing what the world holds for him and chases that.

Yeah, I hear you, you're probably right. Perhaps I worded that poorly. I didn't mean to make it sound like Ash has an elitist mentality, I wasn't going for that at all. I'm just wondering, if he becomes World Champion, (which is starting to look more and more likely,) how motivated will he be to go to this new region-only to trounce everyone there? It'd be like early Johto with Casey vs Charizard, only all the time.

 

[Lightning Flame Blast]

Yeah, I hear you, you're probably right. Perhaps I worded that poorly. I didn't mean to make it sound like Ash has an elitist mentality, I wasn't going for that at all. I'm just wondering, if he becomes World Champion, (which is starting to look more and more likely,) how motivated will he be to go to this new region-only to trounce everyone there? It'd be like early Johto with Casey vs Charizard, only all the time.

Not necessarily, he would still be catching untrained pokemon he would raise from the ground up. Sure, there’s the Pikachu issue, but that could be averted by simply… not spamming him in every early route battle pretending he’s even remotely challenged by them.

 

[Shadao]

Ash always like a challenge, that's for certain. Always like a battle.

But it's clear the anime team is not keen on repeating the same old formula given they ditched it for Alola's more relaxed atmosphere and island trials, followed by a World Tour where Ash is fighting a variety of trainers from different regions to reach to the top of the world tournament. It's something that Pokémon itself seems to have realized given the emphasis on an open world and more "Gotta Catch 'Em All" marketing.

Leagues are fun, but lately the appeal of modern Pokémon games are the worlds where people can any Pokémon they like. Wild Areas, Sinnoh Underground, Pokemon Legends Arceus...

The Gyms do not have the same impact it once did in the past. And Pokémon is more than just 8 Gyms plus a League.

 

[Emmy]

Not necessarily, he would still be catching untrained pokemon he would raise from the ground up. Sure, there’s the Pikachu issue, but that could be averted by simply… not spamming him in every early route battle pretending he’s even remotely challenged by them.

Not to mention that you would also (presumably) have at least one companion who can take care of the "struggling" in early Route battles as Ash doesn't need to be the one who battles every single opponent the party comes across.

 

[Die-Hard Dragon Devotee]

Not necessarily, he would still be catching untrained pokemon he would raise from the ground up. Sure, there’s the Pikachu issue, but that could be averted by simply… not spamming him in every early route battle pretending he’s even remotely challenged by them.

You gotta wonder, though.......what if Ash is such an elite trainer at this point that he could take a weak, untrained Pokemon and make it powerful in no time flat?

Not to mention that you would also (presumably) have at least one companion who can take care of the "struggling" in early Route battles as Ash doesn't need to be the one who battles every single opponent the party comes across.

Makes me wonder if Ash might become more of a mentor character as people have been saying he might, a la the way he was with May.

 

[Kurolegacy]

Ash always like a challenge, that's for certain. Always like a battle.

But it's clear the anime team is not keen on repeating the same old formula given they ditched it for Alola's more relaxed atmosphere and island trials, followed by a World Tour where Ash is fighting a variety of trainers from different regions to reach to the top of the world tournament. It's something that Pokémon itself seems to have realized given the emphasis on an open world and more "Gotta Catch 'Em All" marketing.

Leagues are fun, but lately the appeal of modern Pokémon games are the worlds where people can any Pokémon they like. Wild Areas, Sinnoh Underground, Pokemon Legends Arceus...

The Gyms do not have the same impact it once did in the past. And Pokémon is more than just 8 Gyms plus a League.

Thing is though, it can’t even be said they ditched gyms in Alola given that they just followed the games in replacing the gyms with the Trials. And as for the shift in atmosphere, that comes from them delving into Alola’s culture as a themes. Plus, given how Alola as a region is so much smaller than any other region, only being composed of 4 islands, there’s really not much that can be done with traveling due to its small size. Even without travel, the anime showed Alola’s size with how they just casually could move between trlhe islands. And even with that change, they still ended up finishing the series with a Pokémon League, even if it was more casual than previous ones.

And as for them not using gyms with this series, people have got to remember that this was meant to be an anniversary seri for the franchise’s 25th anniversary and as such they involved all the regions. With that, I can imagine that they wanted a competition that wasn’t just limited to a single region and thus created the PWC rather than use gym battles since such a thing would create a limitation for what was a celebration of the entire franchise. A Scarlet and Violet series wouldn’t be held to such a standard due to no longer being an anniversary series. As such, they could very easily go for a ‘back to basics’ type of formula for that. Remember, the series is one that’s made with a refreshing audience in mind in which they get a new batch of children introduced to the series with each generation.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Gyms as a concept are over for Ash, but he could still battle Gym leaders. For example he battled Bea and Raihan in the PWC (as well as Korrina, Volkner, Iris, Marnie, etc), who were all Gym leaders at points. So he could still battle the characters themselves, just not for a badge quest

Considering that they didn't make use of the PWC to have Ash battle more than two Galar Gym Leaders, I'm really not confident that they could have Ash battle future Gym Leaders without the badge quest involved. It's not impossible, but the PWC was an easy way to incorporate established trainers from around the world, which they didn't consistently start doing until the Hyper Class, and Ash only battled two new Gym Leaders, I don't think it's particularly likely that they'd have Ash battle against Gym Leaders in the future like that. At this point, we won't even see all of the Galar Gym Leaders in Journeys, unless they just make silent cameos during the Masters Class battles, so I don't have faith that the writers would allow Ash to battle Gym Leaders in different ways if the PWC is any indication.

Yeah, I hear you, you're probably right. Perhaps I worded that poorly. I didn't mean to make it sound like Ash has an elitist mentality, I wasn't going for that at all. I'm just wondering, if he becomes World Champion, (which is starting to look more and more likely,) how motivated will he be to go to this new region-only to trounce everyone there? It'd be like early Johto with Casey vs Charizard, only all the time.

Not necessarily. He would still be using a new team of Pokemon. Being the Alola Champion didn't make him unbeatable and I imagine that would be the case even if he does win the PWC. He wouldn't be defeating everyone with ease, especially when they would be using new Pokemon that he isn't familiar with. Ash had no problem going to the Sinnoh League after winning the Battle Frontier or to Alola after getting to the Kalos League finals. Yeah, I know that those accomplishments aren't the same thing as getting to the PWC, but my point is that Ash can make noteworthy accomplishments and still want to start fresh in a new region and a new team. He loves finding new Pokemon and trainers to battle. It's a big reason why Ash having little interest in the Galar region besides Leon seems so out of character to me. It also seems a bit weird to think of Ash being so unbeatable, especially when I still don't think his current team is anything to really write home about.

It's honestly kind of funny to me that people are claiming that Gyms are so beneath Ash at this point when Bea is arguably the strongest opponent Ash faced in the PWC. I distinctly remember thinking to myself "Why are we wasting time with the PWC when the third Galar Gym Leader is that strong?" after watching their first battle. It took Ash three times to finally defeat her. I don't think that they handled their so-called rivalry well, but a Gym Leader was the only person to actually give Ash a challenge to overcome in the PWC.

 

[Die-Hard Dragon Devotee]

It's honestly kind of funny to me that people are claiming that Gyms are so beneath Ash at this point when Bea is arguably the strongest opponent Ash faced in the PWC. I distinctly remember thinking to myself "Why are we wasting time with the PWC when the third Galar Gym Leader is that strong?" after watching their first battle. It took Ash three times to finally defeat her. I don't think that they handled their so-called rivalry well, but a Gym Leader was the only person to actually give Ash a challenge to overcome in the PWC.

I think a lot of had to with the questionable at best writing in early Journeys, plus it seems to me like they were trying to give Ash a strong female rival, which unfortunately didn't work out so great.

 

[isrrael120]

I think a lot of had to with the questionable at best writing in early Journeys, plus it seems to me like they were trying to give Ash a strong female rival, which unfortunately didn't work out so great.

I had no problem with that mishandling with Bea!

 

[Die-Hard Dragon Devotee]

I had no problem with that mishandling with Bea!

Ehhh.......she was okay, I guess. It's just my personal opinion.

 

[isrrael120]

Ehhh.......she was okay, I guess. It's just my personal opinion.

I thought it was good in general it could have been better but I'm not complaining!

 

[Shadao]

It's honestly kind of funny to me that people are claiming that Gyms are so beneath Ash at this point when Bea is arguably the strongest opponent Ash faced in the PWC. I distinctly remember thinking to myself "Why are we wasting time with the PWC when the third Galar Gym Leader is that strong?" after watching their first battle. It took Ash three times to finally defeat her. I don't think that they handled their so-called rivalry well, but a Gym Leader was the only person to actually give Ash a challenge to overcome in the PWC.

Actually, Bea is the fourth Gym Leader on the Sword version.

But Bea being stronger than Ash in the PWC didn't tell me that the Galar Gym Leaders are miles above regular Gym Leaders. It's just that some Gym Leaders are more powerful than others, like Volkner and Raihan. What makes Bea unique is that her game position as fourth Gym Leader has no bearing on her true strength in anime. She's sort of like Misty in that Misty is actually more powerful in anime than her game position as second Gym Leader lets own. It actually makes Bea feel like an actual character is doing her own thing rather than playing to the rules of the Gym.

Now you could make the Galar Gym Leaders the ultimate badass Gym Leaders with Leon being the localized Galar Champion, but this runs the risk of escalation disbelief. Like why would the Galar Gym Leaders more powerful than everyone else combined? What would happen if Ash wins and defeats Leon? Is there another region that is even more powerful than Galar? It's only putting a band-aid wound to the problem of Gyms which is they get repetitive in both games and anime. The solution to this should not make the Gym Leaders more powerful than rest. Rather it should be, what we do to make it interesting and fresh?

This is why Ash's journey in SV should be a far different adventure with new kinds of challenges rather than doing old ones with new paint.

And as for them not using gyms with this series, people have got to remember that this was meant to be an anniversary seri for the franchise’s 25th anniversary and as such they involved all the regions. With that, I can imagine that they wanted a competition that wasn’t just limited to a single region and thus created the PWC rather than use gym battles since such a thing would create a limitation for what was a celebration of the entire franchise. A Scarlet and Violet series wouldn’t be held to such a standard due to no longer being an anniversary series. As such, they could very easily go for a ‘back to basics’ type of formula for that. Remember, the series is one that’s made with a refreshing audience in mind in which they get a new batch of children introduced to the series with each generation.

A refreshing audience that has access to the internet and all the Pokémon episodes that came before it. And an anime team that grew up with the Pokémon anime and all the characters in it. Suffice to say, it's not that simple as you make it and they could have made Galar into a three year adventure with the third year being 25th celebration that will be done with Ash bringing in the reserves to the League (plus several friends).

Honestly, the reason why Ash is still around is because the generational audience wants Ash to become better and succeed. They want all new kinds of adventures for him to take on. Otherwise, he might as well be replaced by a new protagonist. Who cares what the old fans have to say? The refreshing audience wouldn't know the difference.

And the last time they went "back to the basics" was BW, which was the worst-received Pokémon anime series because nobody liked the fact Ash and Pikachu reset literally. And so negative was the reception that it is the catalyst for Ash to be portrayed as the uber badass since XY.