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Do you think after DP the writer should retire Ash?

Should Ash leave the show?

  • Total voters
    144
Dropping Ash from the series, in my opinion, would be the worst possible move they could make.

Think about it, Pokemon is not going to be around forever. I mean a 5th gen is looking like a scratchy idea as it is. With that being said, would it honestly make sense to have this on-going journey end, only to be replaced by some random new story that'd only carry out for a region or (doubtfully) 2?

For plot line purposes it'd be much better to keep Ash and give his story a proper conclusion. I realize that this doesn't include the newer generation, but we as the long time fans have grown up with Ash. Even the kids in Japan get to see his early adventures from Kanto etc... on tv. We've got to see the plot unfold through Ash's journey towards "Pokemon Master". Along the way, a lot of things have been revealed, and it'd only be proper for them to conclude it all with him. I'd rather see his development go through each step than see an unknown get the surface of his breached.

From a financial standpoint it'd be bad too. Ash and Pikachu sell the anime. They're the most recognizable characters of the entire series, to the point where even those who dislike the show could identify them. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if someone were to look at a poster advertisement of a new character by himself/herself and easily mistake it for any other mainstream anime of it's kind. Ash and Pikachu mean marketing for the show.

As I discussed in the thread I made a long while ago, a trip back to Kanto would be great for Ash's conclusion. He doesn't have to revisit any of the old badges, as his are still active, and therefore they could get right down to business in the plot. From my understanding Kanto would be the proper place for Ash to become the Champion of, as he's from that region. As such, he could do so by winning @ Indigo and taking on Kanto's E4. The Indigo League could be the culmination of rivals, Gary returning, Harrison there (assuming he didn't win when he told us he'd go there), maybe Richie and Morrison and Tyson, Paul, Jun, etc... With all the chemistry, possibilities, and coverage there, the league could easily extend over the course of a healthy amount of episodes. Yu Yu Hakusho and other series push their tournaments over like 40-50. Additionally, the Silph Co building is in Kanto, so Team Rocket could be ended there.

All in all, I just don't think DP would be the proper ending for Ash. It just seems like it'd be rushed if so, or sort of poorly done given the circumstances.
 
Hidden Mew said:
It's like the old saying: If it isn't broke, don't fix it. While I'm sure that some people would argue that the show is broken, I don't think that Nintendo or anyone else a part of the franchise would agree since it continues to make them a lot of money.
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The franchise would probably make the same amount of money without Ash in it. You people are assuming that the lack of Ash would suddenly "screw up" the series somehow. I can understand Pikachu, however, and for that they could give the new female character her own Pikachu just so the mascot is still represented.

The new kids getting into Pokemon would easily adjust to a new hero. The Raikou special and the hoso specials both did not have Ash in it and people did not refuse to watch them.

My problem with the show continuing year after year is it feels like every older season gets retconned once it ends. Its gotten to the point where entire arcs feel skippable, and that's a bad thing IMO. The only proof that older seasons still matter in terms of continuity is when an old character re-appears, like May and Gary in DP, or when Ash uses his older Pokemon at Oak's lab. Otherwise it honestly feels like you could start watching with DP, never having seen the older seasons, and it honestly doesn't matter. The writers do this for the kids of today obviously, but its still bothersome.
 
Scott85 said:
The franchise would probably make the same amount of money without Ash in it. You people are assuming that the lack of Ash would suddenly "screw up" the series somehow. I can understand Pikachu, however, and for that they could give the new female character her own Pikachu just so the mascot is still represented.
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I'm not sure I understand how you can come to that conclusion without any real facts to back it up, no offense. Well, Ash is part of the Ash and Pikachu formula so I kind of think that it would mess something that the series has established. I also don't see the point of replacing Ash with a new character, who would be doing the same thing and having his or her own Pikachu. It honestly wouldn't make the change worth it in my eyes since it would seem like they would be doing the exact same thing that the writers have done with Ash.

Scott85 said:
The new kids getting into Pokemon would easily adjust to a new hero. The Raikou special and the hoso specials both did not have Ash in it and people did not refuse to watch them.
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While you do have a point there, all of the characters, the ones that were centered on at least, did have some kind of connection to Ash, either by meeting him before or by seeing someone else who met him. They also weren't replacing Ash either. The writers wanted to focus on the other trainers, like Brock, Misty, Team Rocket, Gary, Prof. Oak, ect. while Ash was on his journey. The only new characters were in the Raikou special and even that had a character that Ash had met during the Johto League.

Scott85 said:
My problem with the show continuing year after year is it feels like every older season gets retconned once it ends. Its gotten to the point where entire arcs feel skippable, and that's a bad thing IMO. The only proof that older seasons still matter in terms of continuity is when an old character re-appears, like May and Gary in DP, or when Ash uses his older Pokemon at Oak's lab. Otherwise it honestly feels like you could start watching with DP, never having seen the older seasons, and it honestly doesn't matter. The writers do this for the kids of today obviously, but its still bothersome.
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I'm not so sure if that's such a bad thing. It would be kind of hard for kids today to have to get into Pokemon by watching it from the start. It would be easier, in many ways, for them to be able to get into it with some of the more current seasons. Just because some the older arcs feel skippable doesn't make it a bad thing. With having a good chuck of the series so far out on DVD, it gives kids who are just getting into Pokemon a chance to see older episodes. The audience for Pokemon always changes over time, which is why the writers give kids the chance to get into the more recent sagas, as you mentioned. But it's only bothersome if you put a lot of importance on continuity. I love how the series does have continuity, but I don't get too upset about older seasons becoming skippable either.

Besides that, Ash has mentioned some of the events from the older seasons, like when he first saw Oh-Ho, his first Pokemon catch and his achievements as a trainer were mentioned during one of his matches against a Frontier Brain.
 
Scott85 said:
My problem with the show continuing year after year is it feels like every older season gets retconned once it ends.
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An example of retconning is when the writers decided to change when and where Musashi and Kojiro first met. Starting fresh every region isn't even close to the same thing.

If the writers really were retconning things left and right I'd understand your point, but just because you don't need to see every single episode in order to follow the story doesn't change the fact that they happened unless the writers say otherwise.

Scott85 said:
Otherwise it honestly feels like you could start watching with DP, never having seen the older seasons, and it honestly doesn't matter. The writers do this for the kids of today obviously, but its still bothersome.
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You're right, it pretty much didn't matter that I hadn't seen a single Pokemon episode when I tuned in for the first three episodes of Diamond and Pearl. But like I said above, it doesn't mean they didn't happen, and it shouldn't make older episodes any less enjoyable.
 
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Rocket Girl said:
An example of retconning is when the writers decided to change when and where Musashi and Kojiro first met. Starting fresh every region isn't even close to the same thing.
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? To my understanding, for something to be retconned, the continuity or facts are usually kept the same, and interpretations or concepts being the only things to change due to something that's revealed or expanded on later. For Musashi and Kojiro's meeting to be changed to be considered retconned, it would mean that their established meeting remains a fact, but it's revealed (somehow) that they met earlier than they'd remembered (like as small children somewhere).

Either way, you're right in that Pokemon never really undergoes retcon. The only real example of something being retconned in Pokemon was the transition between Kanto and Johto, when the original established number of Pokemon was expanded on by another region (and so on and so forth). Even then, that didn't so much happen in the anime, as they never declared an exact number, and often times said that there were many Pokemon that may be undiscovered, etc... So the statement made by Scott is bunk either way.
 
I suppose I'll sound similar to some of the people that already posted, but I might as well anyway.

In a direct sort of response to the OP... yes. I think we should have Ash's journey end soon, and start focusing on other characters. Is it really so terrible to have some new leads for a change? I mean, Ash could easily make appearances during the new character's journey as some kind of mentor (like Red does) or at the very least as someone for the new trainer to look up to or battle. If Pikachu really is as necessary as it seems, they could have each new trainer have their own Pikachu....
 
Retcon may not have been the right word, but it really does feel like once a saga ends, the majority of stuff that was accomplished in that saga doesn't make much of an impact on whatever arc comes after.

Especially with the "fresh starts" they did with Hoenn and Sinnoh, and having Ash/Brock leave most of their Pokemon behind and introducing a new female character to make it seem like a new series.

As said I realize the writers do this so new kids can get into the show without feeling lost, so the show essentially resets itself for a new generation of kids, but it really makes it feel like previous stuff is irrelevant now. It'll happen to DP as well when we're in Gen 5.

Now it doesn't make me enjoy older episodes any less when I go back and rewatch them, but considering Ash has almost 40 badges now with all the regions combined, you really wonder if it all mattered in the end.
 
Scott85 said:
Retcon may not have been the right word, but it really does feel like once a saga ends, the majority of stuff that was accomplished in that saga doesn't make much of an impact on whatever arc comes after.

Especially with the "fresh starts" they did with Hoenn and Sinnoh, and having Ash/Brock leave most of their Pokemon behind and introducing a new female character to make it seem like a new series.

As said I realize the writers do this so new kids can get into the show without feeling lost, so the show essentially resets itself for a new generation of kids, but it really makes it feel like previous stuff is irrelevant now. It'll happen to DP as well when we're in Gen 5.

Now it doesn't make me enjoy older episodes any less when I go back and rewatch them, but considering Ash has almost 40 badges now with all the regions combined, you really wonder if it all mattered in the end.
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Weren't you the one who pointed out how DP has more references to past sagas than any other?

And in Johto it never seemed like Ash stfu about his "Orange Island victory" and "top 16 at the Indigo" status for a while.
 
I believe that in order to have a retcon a series needs to have some semblance of a canon, which pokemon mostly lacks.

I think that it would be nice to see Ash actually experience success - i.e. he actually wins.

Another option would to just split off so that Ash isn't the sole focus. So there might be two groups that the series covers and it jumps back and forth. They could both have a connection to fighting the regional team(s), and meet up occasionally.

@Trainer'sInsomnia: The thing is Kanto, Orange Islands, and Johto shared the same general feel. Meanwhile, Hoenn had a fresh start, replacing May with Misty and Ash just kept Pikachu in his party. Kanto-Orange-Johto was sort of the same because there was still the same fanbase and everything as well.
 
I think the idea of the show focusing on two groups is too chaotic. I mean it won`t be cool if you have to wait to see the conclusion of something. IMO they should start a spin-off like the chronicles with a new character different from Ash, to wait and see if it`ll become the Donald Duck/Mickey Mouse type of a show and then make the spin-off the main anime and give Ash his Master title.
 
maybe it should skip a few years be good see ash older hes gone through 4 reigons and hasent growen an inch stupid anime time laws
 
In any case, I'm kinda done after Gen 4 for the most part. I hope this saga gets a good ending, because after DP I'm not sure if I'm going to follow the 5th gen.

650 episodes is enough, which is what the show will have by the end of DP.
 
Scott85 said:
In any case, I'm kinda done after Gen 4 for the most part. I hope this saga gets a good ending, because after DP I'm not sure if I'm going to follow the 5th gen.

650 episodes is enough, which is what the show will have by the end of DP.
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Meh, it would depend on what the 5th Gen does. If it has the same old "Contests, Gyms, and Brock Wallpaper, then no thanks. But if they do something to shake up the gym format, have the new girl not be overly girly with interesting rivals, and have Brock participate in more things, then I'll give it a shot.
 
That is true, but it'll still be a few years until we know. If it is the same thing though, I'll likely take a break from the series. Even I can only watch the series for so long, I'd much rather DP wrap up the series.
 
Please note: The thread is from 15 years ago.
Please take the age of this thread into consideration in writing your reply. Depending on what exactly you wanted to say, you may want to consider if it would be better to post a new thread instead.
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