Gen VI Pokemon Discussion

[Joshawott]

Re: Revealed Gen VI Pokemon Discussion/Speculation Thread

@Silkree; "It was created by scientists after years of horrific gene-splicing and DNA-engineering experiments[/quote]
That makes it sound pretty clear the splicing and engineering done to Mewtwo was done before it was born. So it could be possible that it was an artificial insemination - that Mewtwo's DNA and genes were tampered with when it was still nothing more than cells, then implanted into a Mew so that it could then develop like a normal pregnancy. I imagine this new Pokémon could have been a second attempt at that experiment, which seems likely considering how it resembles Mew more than Mewtwo did (while it clearly has aspects of Mewtwo, its overall frame is more akin to Mew's, with the large head yet slim body, the shape of the legs and such).

As TPCi are explicitly referring to this Pokémon as a "New Pokémon", I'd say that's the line we should go with until we hear otherwise. People keep on using the Black Kyurem/White Kyurem argument to try and say it's simply a new forme, but Black Kyurem and White Kyurem were something quite special - they were fusions. The only thing seeming to even hint towards the otherwise was when I asked the team that handles TPCi's PR whether it was Mewtwo or a new forme, they simply replied that TPCi aren't revealing more information about it at this time, but that's not definite proof of either side.

One thing that is worth thinking about it - how will this affect a possible story of XY with Xerneas and Yveltal? Looking at the Bulbapedia page for Xerneas, it does suggest that it is based on Cernunnos, which is said to be a God of Fertility. Yveltal is harder to draw a link to, but the Quetzalcoatl was seen as a God of knowledge. If we are to believe Mewnew is connected to the XY story in some way, then the only theme I can pull out so far is Nature vs Nurture - with Xerneas representing nature (fertility) and Yveltol nurture (knowledge). Maybe the villain team in XY are trying to capture Xerneas/Yveltol to use their respective powers to complete the previously incomplete formula - to create this new Pokémon as their end-game?

 

[Silktree]

Re: Revealed Gen VI Pokemon Discussion/Speculation Thread

That makes it sound pretty clear the splicing and engineering done to Mewtwo was done before it was born. So it could be possible that it was an artificial insemination - that Mewtwo's DNA and genes were tampered with when it was still nothing more than cells, then implanted into a Mew so that it could then develop like a normal pregnancy.

It wouldn't have been referred to as horrific gene splicing if it had been done on cells, which have no way of feeling pain. Creation does not have to mean literal birth.

As TPCi are explicitly referring to this Pokémon as a "New Pokémon", I'd say that's the line we should go with until we hear otherwise. People keep on using the Black Kyurem/White Kyurem argument to try and say it's simply a new forme, but Black Kyurem and White Kyurem were something quite special - they were fusions. The only thing seeming to even hint towards the otherwise was when I asked the team that handles TPCi's PR whether it was Mewtwo or a new forme, they simply replied that TPCi aren't revealing more information about it at this time, but that's not definite proof of either side.

TPCi want us to speculate about it, so their phrasing is obviously ambiguous. The source of the movie poster says that we're dealing with a Forme called Éclair Forme. Why would they lie about that considering that the poster is obviously real? They revealed the name days ago, but few people noticed it.

 

[Joshawott]

Re: Revealed Gen VI Pokemon Discussion/Speculation Thread

That makes it sound pretty clear the splicing and engineering done to Mewtwo was done before it was born. So it could be possible that it was an artificial insemination - that Mewtwo's DNA and genes were tampered with when it was still nothing more than cells, then implanted into a Mew so that it could then develop like a normal pregnancy.

It wouldn't have been referred to as horrific gene splicing if it had been done on cells, which have no way of feeling pain. Creation does not have to mean literal birth.

"Horrific" also doesn't mean that it inflicted pain. Gene splicing and DNA engineering as a whole is really morally ambiguous practice anyway, so it could have been referencing that.

As TPCi are explicitly referring to this Pokémon as a "New Pokémon", I'd say that's the line we should go with until we hear otherwise. People keep on using the Black Kyurem/White Kyurem argument to try and say it's simply a new forme, but Black Kyurem and White Kyurem were something quite special - they were fusions. The only thing seeming to even hint towards the otherwise was when I asked the team that handles TPCi's PR whether it was Mewtwo or a new forme, they simply replied that TPCi aren't revealing more information about it at this time, but that's not definite proof of either side.

TPCi want us to speculate about it, so their phrasing is obviously ambiguous. The source of the movie poster says that we're dealing with a Forme called Éclair Forme. Why would they lie about that considering that the poster is obviously real? They revealed the name a few days ago, but few people noticed it.

...I'm willing to doubt it based on the name right now...

Looking it up on Wikipedia, there is no other meaning.
Do you have a link to the source of the name "Delicious Yet Very Fattening Pastry Mewtwo"? As tbh, until you referenced it, it was the first I heard about it.

Also, it's not ambiguous at all. This is an extract of the PR email I received from TCPi:

Today, the mysteries of the newest Pokémon titles continue to grow with the unveiling of a Pokémon that is strangely familiar to Legendary Pokémon Mewtwo! This special reveal was made just moments ago on the “Pokémon Smash” television show in Japan.

This new Pokémon shares many traits with Mewtwo and it’s suspected that the newly discovered Pokémon has a connection with Mewtwo—a powerful Pokémon that debuted in Pokémon Red and Pokémon Blue.

What is this new Pokémon? How will you encounter it in Pokémon X and Pokémon Y? When will you know more? One thing is clear, your readers will certainly want to debate the meaning of this new Pokémon!

The following link features video footage, screenshots, and official art of this new Pokémon:

Also, sure, their statement about Sylveon's type makes it seem like they love seeing us speculate, but why would they hide the fact that it's merely a new forme for a Pokémon we've known for over 17 years?

 

[Silktree]

Re: Revealed Gen VI Pokemon Discussion/Speculation Thread

"Horrific" also doesn't mean that it inflicted pain. Gene splicing and DNA engineering as a whole is really morally ambiguous practice anyway, so it could have been referencing that.

The horrific splicing is the stated reason for Mewtwo's vicious behavior. Do you think that the cells remembered the engineering?

Looking it up on Wikipedia, there is no other meaning.
Do you have a link to the source of the name "Delicious Yet Very Fattening Pastry Mewtwo"? As tbh, until you referenced it, it was the first I heard about it.

Serebii mentioned it. You could ask him for the direct source if you doubt it so much. Just remember that you were also adamant about the poster being fake.

Éclair means flash of lightning. The verb éclairer means to brighten, but also to enlighten or shed light.

Also, sure, their statement about Sylveon's type makes it seem like they love seeing us speculate, but why would they hide the fact that it's merely a new forme for a Pokémon we've known for over 17 years?

They don't consider it to be "merely" a Forme; only some of the fans think of Formes in such terms. As far as legendaries are concerned, Formes are essentially akin to evolutions, or at least alternate ones.

 

[SUP3RN0VA]

Re: Revealed Gen VI Pokemon Discussion/Speculation Thread

It also says that the newly discovered Pokemon is connected to Mewtwo. An alternate forme of mewtwo wouldn't be connected to mewtwo, because it IS Mewtwo. It is the same Pokemon taking on a different forme. That part references a new Pokemon better than it references an alternate forme, however, seeing as the same person who posted the leak movie poster also posted the eclaire forme title, that is evidence suggesting it is a forme. We can speculate as much as we want, but in the end all we can do is sit and speculate until a new announcement arrives telling us what this New Mewtwo is.

 

[Joshawott]

Re: Revealed Gen VI Pokemon Discussion/Speculation Thread

"Horrific" also doesn't mean that it inflicted pain. Gene splicing and DNA engineering as a whole is really morally ambiguous practice anyway, so it could have been referencing that.

The horrific splicing is the stated reason for Mewtwo's vicious behavior. Do you think that the cells remembered the engineering?

The only reference to its disposition in the Pokédex is from FireRed:

A Pokémon whose genetic code was repeatedly recombined for research. It turned vicious as a result.

However, every other entry that refers to its disposition as being the researchers unable to instil it with a compassionate heart. There is no reference to the trauma from experiments leading to Mewtwo being a big can of rage.

Looking it up on Wikipedia, there is no other meaning.
Do you have a link to the source of the name "Delicious Yet Very Fattening Pastry Mewtwo"? As tbh, until you referenced it, it was the first I heard about it.

Serebii mentioned it. You could ask him for the direct source if you doubt it so much. Just remember that you were also adamant about the poster being fake.

It was 2 days after April Fools Day from a random person on 2ch and from an un-stated source; you can't really blame me for doubting its legitimacy at the time.

Éclair means flash of lightning. The verb éclairer means to enlighten or shed light.

Fair enough. I'm guessing with the more agile look of Mewnew, it could have a higher speed stat than Mewtwo? How the hell did Éclair become the name of a super fattening treat anyway then? :S

Also, sure, their statement about Sylveon's type makes it seem like they love seeing us speculate, but why would they hide the fact that it's merely a new forme for a Pokémon we've known for over 17 years?

They don't consider it to be "merely" a Forme; only some of the fans think of Formes in such terms. As far as legendaries are concerned, Formes are essentially akin to evolutions, or at least alternate ones.

That's not an answer. Why would they have hidden the identity of a new forme of a Pokémon we've known for 17 years, especially when the physical resemblance is so obvious?

 

[Silktree]

Re: Revealed Gen VI Pokemon Discussion/Speculation Thread

However, every other entry that refers to its disposition as being the researchers unable to instil it with a compassionate heart.

Only the RSE entry says that. Each entry says something different, but everything fits together; I fail to see the problem. What do you think "failed to give it a compassionate heart" means?

That's not an answer. Why would they have hidden the identity of a new forme of a Pokémon we've known for 17 years, especially when the physical resemblance is so obvious?

So that CoroCoro and the movie trailer have something to reveal later. The Smash announcement was basically a teaser.

 

[Joshawott]

Re: Revealed Gen VI Pokemon Discussion/Speculation Thread

However, every other entry that refers to its disposition as being the researchers unable to instil it with a compassionate heart.

Only the RSE entry says that. Each entry says something different, but everything fits together; I fail to see the problem. What do you think "failed to give it a compassionate heart" means?

And this ties into my Nature vs Nurture theory - what gave Mewtwo the savage heart? With its enhanced intelligence, it might have realised that it was a mere laboratory experiment thus making it grow very resentful, like in the anime. The engineering could have affected the development of its brain (as part of it was to enhance its psychic capabilities), thus leading Mewtwo to lack any empathy from birth, the scientists might not have paid attention to it as it grew up thus leading it to not learn any morals and merely go by its instincts. It could mean many things.

Conversely, only the FR entry states that the genetic splicing had anything to do with it, each entry says something different. The problem is, FireRed and Emerald's entries clash with each other - FireRed makes it sound more like it was a result of nature, while Emerald makes it sound more like nurture. Which leads me to believe that not even people in the Pokémon universe truly know what really went on with Mewtwo and its psychology. I am getting serious Nature vs Nurture vibes from XY now though.

That's not an answer. Why would they have hidden the identity of a new forme of a Pokémon we've known for 17 years, especially when the physical resemblance is so obvious?

So that CoroCoro and the movie trailer have something to reveal later. The Smash announcement was basically a teaser.

[/quote]
Still seems really flimsy. They could have easily told us its name now, then made us wait to know about its connection to Mew/Mewtwo, how it is obtained etc.

 

[Silktree]

Re: Revealed Gen VI Pokemon Discussion/Speculation Thread

And this ties into my Nature vs Nurture theory - what gave Mewtwo the savage heart? With its enhanced intelligence, it might have realised that it was a mere laboratory experiment thus making it grow very resentful, like in the anime. The engineering could have affected the development of its brain (as part of it was to enhance its psychic capabilities), thus leading Mewtwo to lack any empathy from birth, the scientists might not have paid attention to it as it grew up thus leading it to not learn any morals and merely go by its instincts. It could mean many things.

Obviously, we can't be sure what it means since the story has yet to be told, but I don't know you're ignoring the FireRed entry and bringing the anime into this.

The problem is, FireRed and Emerald's entries clash with each other - FireRed makes it sound more like it was a result of nature, while Emerald makes it sound more like nurture.

It's only contradicting when you hold onto your interpretation that the splicing was done before birth.

Still seems really flimsy. They could have easily told us its name now, then made us wait to know about its connection to Mew/Mewtwo, how it is obtained etc.

What are you getting at? You argued that they had a reason to be misleading in Kyurem's case since fusion was involved, but that's a pretty weak excuse, too. Especially considering that they hadn't confirmed the fusion part until June.

 

[Joshawott]

Re: Revealed Gen VI Pokemon Discussion/Speculation Thread

And this ties into my Nature vs Nurture theory - what gave Mewtwo the savage heart? With its enhanced intelligence, it might have realised that it was a mere laboratory experiment thus making it grow very resentful, like in the anime. The engineering could have affected the development of its brain (as part of it was to enhance its psychic capabilities), thus leading Mewtwo to lack any empathy from birth, the scientists might not have paid attention to it as it grew up thus leading it to not learn any morals and merely go by its instincts. It could mean many things.

Obviously, we can't be sure what it means since the story has yet to be told, but I don't know you're ignoring the FireRed entry and bringing the anime into this.

I didn't "bring the anime into this", I just casually mentioned it as a possibility along with a longer list of other possibilities. As for FireRed's entry, it's the only entry that ties Mewtwo's behaviour to its engineering and testing - every other one that mentions it separates the two. Even with FireRed and LeafGreen's, it doesn't say what about the experiments caused the savage behaviour. Personally, my opinion is that due to part of the procedure involving enhancing Mewtwo's psychic abilities, part of the experiments damaged its brain, leading it to lack any empathy, thus resulting in its more aggressive, savage behaviour. This could also tie into the possible "Éclair Forme", due to the "Enlightening" meaning - that maybe this Newtwo is a version of Mewtwo with its empathy intact (After all, if it is a new forme, it hasn't been confirmed that it and the original Mewtwo can change between each other. It could be like Unown or Wormadam, or Gen III Deoxys in that respect). That would also still fit if it was a new Pokémon, like a "Mewthree" or something.

Still seems really flimsy. They could have easily told us its name now, then made us wait to know about its connection to Mew/Mewtwo, how it is obtained etc.

What are you getting at? You argued that they had a reason to be misleading in Kyurem's case since fusion was involved, but that's a pretty weak excuse, too.

At least we knew it was Kyurem when it was announced and the appearance of the two formes made it obvious.

 

[Lugiafanatic]

Re: Revealed Gen VI Pokemon Discussion/Speculation Thread

The design of the Mewtwo form or whatever it's supposed to be is the only complaint I have with this generation so far. I like all of the other revealed Pokemon. Maybe I'll grow to be content with it (I don't think I'll ever actually like it), but right now, I'm not a fan.

Also, apparently, the official Japanese site changed the "???", which is in place of Sylveon's type, to pink. I wonder what that could mean.

No, it's always been that way...

 

[Silktree]

Re: Revealed Gen VI Pokemon Discussion/Speculation Thread

I didn't "bring the anime into this", I just casually mentioned it as a possibility along with a longer list of other possibilities. As for FireRed's entry, it's the only entry that ties Mewtwo's behaviour to its engineering and testing - every other one that mentions it separates the two. Even with FireRed and LeafGreen's, it doesn't say what about the experiments caused the savage behaviour. Personally, my opinion is that due to part of the procedure involving enhancing Mewtwo's psychic abilities, part of the experiments damaged its brain, leading it to lack any empathy, thus resulting in its more aggressive, savage behaviour.

Which brain? Aren't you arguing that the experiments were done when it hadn't even been born?

This could also tie into the possible "Éclair Forme", due to the "Enlightening" meaning - that maybe this Newtwo is a version of Mewtwo with its empathy intact (After all, if it is a new forme, it hasn't been confirmed that it and the original Mewtwo can change between each other. It could be like Unown or Wormadam, or Gen III Deoxys in that respect).

Yes, but that has nothing to do with the reason for its lack of empathy. Whatever the reason is, it could be undone.

(After all, if it is a new forme, it hasn't been confirmed that it and the original Mewtwo can change between each other. It could be like Unown or Wormadam, or Gen III Deoxys in that respect).

That is really out there. If you want to be technical, the term "Forme" or "Form" only applies to Pokémon that can actually transform. It should be obvious from the updated movie poster and the previous trailer that the original Mewtwo will transform. There won't be two Mewtwo in the movie.

At least we knew it was Kyurem when it was announced and the appearance of the two formes made it obvious.

Let's sue TPCi.

 

[Joshawott]

Re: Revealed Gen VI Pokemon Discussion/Speculation Thread

I didn't "bring the anime into this", I just casually mentioned it as a possibility along with a longer list of other possibilities. As for FireRed's entry, it's the only entry that ties Mewtwo's behaviour to its engineering and testing - every other one that mentions it separates the two. Even with FireRed and LeafGreen's, it doesn't say what about the experiments caused the savage behaviour. Personally, my opinion is that due to part of the procedure involving enhancing Mewtwo's psychic abilities, part of the experiments damaged its brain, leading it to lack any empathy, thus resulting in its more aggressive, savage behaviour.

Which brain? Aren't you arguing that the experiments were done when it hadn't even been born?

The genes of any life-form are essentially their blueprints. When the scientists were messing around with Mewtwo's genes to try and enhance its psychic powers, that new mapping could have led to problems with the later development of Mewtwo's brain while it was in Mew's womb. It makes more sense that this could have been an unintended side affect, as I'm pretty sure they would have at least wanted to make it so Mewtwo could be controlled.

If Mew gave birth and that offspring was spliced post-birth, then how come Mewtwo was named "Mewtwo" right away and not simply "Mew"? It was clearly a different species at birth.

This could also tie into the possible "Éclair Forme", due to the "Enlightening" meaning - that maybe this Newtwo is a version of Mewtwo with its empathy intact (After all, if it is a new forme, it hasn't been confirmed that it and the original Mewtwo can change between each other. It could be like Unown or Wormadam, or Gen III Deoxys in that respect).

Yes, but that has nothing to do with the reason for its lack of empathy. Whatever the reason is, it could be undone.

What I was getting at is, the original Mewtwo was incomplete - a failure because it could not be controlled and was savage, which was likely at least partly due to a lack of empathy. This Mewnew, whether it simply be an irreversible form difference of a new species altogether, could have that empathy or emotions that the original Mewtwo lacked - thus, a more complete version.

That is really out there. If you want to be technical, the term "Forme" or "Form" only applies to Pokémon that can actually transform. It should be obvious from the updated movie poster and the previous trailer that the original Mewtwo will transform. There won't be two Mewtwo in the movie.

We have five Genesect don't we? Anyways, we know that we'll find out more about Mewnew's role in the movie on the 18th - they could very easily have it alongside the original Mewtwo at this stage.

Also, where are you getting the irreversible forms not counting as forms? They're all listed together.

 

[99unownoak]

Re: Revealed Gen VI Pokemon Discussion/Speculation Thread

I don't like this new Mewtwo thing. Mewtwo to me has always been "the most powerful Pokemon" of them all, he's such a classic and immortal and I'm afraid they're going to tarnish him by extending or mucking around with his line. If this thing turns out to be Mewthree then I don't want to live on this planet anymore.
I am saddened

 

[Silktree]

Re: Revealed Gen VI Pokemon Discussion/Speculation Thread

If Mew gave birth and that offspring was spliced post-birth, then how come Mewtwo was named "Mewtwo" right away and not simply "Mew"? It was clearly a different species at birth.

You say that as if "Mewtwo" were inherently different than "Mew". It could easily be a nickname to denote a second Mew, especially if Fuji had plans to alter its DNA.

July 5: Guyana, South America. A new Pokémon was discovered deep in the jungle.

July 10: We christened the newly discovered Pokémon Mew.

February 6: Mew gave birth. We named the newborn Mewtwo.

As you can see, Fuji made of saying that Mew was a newly discovered species, but he just referred to Mewtwo as a newborn. Game Freak also provided a very useful addition to the journal in Emerald:

...6th day If any human…sets foot here…again…et it be a kindhearted pers… …ith that hope, I depar…ji

Chances are that "6th day" means February 6, which is to say the date of Mewtwo's birth. If this is the case, Mewtwo was born on Faraway Island and was immediately taken to Cinnabar for research.

What I was getting at is, the original Mewtwo was incomplete - a failure because it could not be controlled and was savage, which was likely at least partly due to a lack of empathy. This Mewnew, whether it simply be an irreversible form difference of a new species altogether, could have that empathy or emotions that the original Mewtwo lacked - thus, a more complete version.

Again, the likely possibility of the Forme being a complete version has little to do with the reason for Mewtwo lacking empathy in the first place.

We have five Genesect don't we?

The four Genesect are side characters, so only the Red Genesect is featured in the poster. Since the title includes "Mewtwo Awakens", it should be clear that the original Mewtwo won't play second fiddle to anyone.

Anyways, we know that we'll find out more about Mewnew's role in the movie on the 18th - they could very easily have it alongside the original Mewtwo at this stage.

I see no reason why Mewtwo would be replaced by its Forme if they weren't one and the same. I also see no reason why there would even be a Forme instead of a brand new species if that were essentially their intention.

Also, where are you getting the irreversible forms not counting as forms? They're all listed together.

Since when is Bulbapedia an official source? Anyway, even the page says that the term Form/Forme only applies to Castform, Cherrim, Deerling, Sawsbuck, Giratina, Deoxys, Shaymin, Giratina, Meloetta, Keldeo and the Kami trio.

 

[Chronos]

Re: Revealed Gen VI Pokemon Discussion/Speculation Thread

The design of the Mewtwo form or whatever it's supposed to be is the only complaint I have with this generation so far. I like all of the other revealed Pokemon. Maybe I'll grow to be content with it (I don't think I'll ever actually like it), but right now, I'm not a fan.

Also, apparently, the official Japanese site changed the "???", which is in place of Sylveon's type, to pink. I wonder what that could mean.

No, it's always been that way...

Oh, well, the Bulbagarden Twitter page posted it like it was something new.

 

[Joshawott]

Re: Revealed Gen VI Pokemon Discussion/Speculation Thread

If Mew gave birth and that offspring was spliced post-birth, then how come Mewtwo was named "Mewtwo" right away and not simply "Mew"? It was clearly a different species at birth.

You say that as if Mewtwo were inherently different than "Mew". It could easily be a nickname to denote a second Mew, especially if Fuji had to plan to alter its DNA.

There's no logical reason why he couldn't have just referred to it as a Mew, even if it was only intended to be an experimental subject. Unless the original designation was "Mew #1" and "Mew #2", but that doesn't explain why the Pokédex refers to it as "Mewtwo" as opposed to "Mew 2", like how "Porygon 2" isn't called "Porygontwo".

Since when is Bulbapedia an official source? Anyway, even the page says that the term Form/Forme only applies to Castform, Cherrim, Deerling, Sawsbuck, Giratina, Deoxys, Shaymin, Giratina, Meloetta, Keldeo and the Kami trio.

To be fair, I've been using the term "Forme" personally. As we don't even know if Mewnew is a new form/forme, obviously there has been no official correspondence on the matter.

Again, the likely possibility of the Forme being a complete version has little to do with the reason for Mewtwo not having empathy in the first place.

I've explained this many times: Through the process of Mewtwo being created it's possible that it either suffered from a developmental abnormality (my theory) or shock from severe physical trauma (your theory), both of these possibly leading to Mewtwo being incapable of feeling any empathy, thus coming across as more instinctive or savage. So thus, the creation of this Newmew could have been done in a way that gets around that process, thus meaning Newmew doesn't have the emotional crutches that Mewtwo has.

In regards to the movie, it's odd that you bring it up as you previously remarked on me simply alluding to the reason Mewtwo became so hate-filled in the anime. As we've seen, notably from even Mewtwo's origin story, the two mediums can differ greatly. A recent example would be the Keldeo movie with how it treated White Kyurem and Black Kyurem - there was no DNA Splicer in that movie (or even Reshiram or Zekrom). Kyurem transformed into both White Kyurem and Black Kyurem, but all three were shown on the poster as well. It's very likely that whatever mythos the movie gives us could be different to the game canon. It would also be very odd for The Pokémon Company and GameFreak to use an old Pokémon (albeit in a new form/forme) to promote new games.

In regard to the journal entries, it's worth noting that in the English versions of the games, there is a noted "...ber" on one of the signs. Sure, that isn't there in the Japanese original, but it does seem odd that it was put there in the English one, especially when you consider that only 4 months actually end in "ber", when Mewtwo was born on 6th February. However, it's worth noting that according to the journal, it was on 1st September when the entry was written about Mewtwo being too powerful. It's possible that it could have been a translator trying to add in another reference and getting it wrong (after all, FRLG did get Janine's name wrong). It would be weird for them to try and add another reference in though, as they actually removed the Fuji reference.

 

[Silktree]

Re: Revealed Gen VI Pokemon Discussion/Speculation Thread

There's no logical reason why he couldn't have just referred to it as a Mew, even if it was only intended to be an experimental subject. Unless the original designation was "Mew #1" and "Mew #2", but that doesn't explain why the Pokédex refers to it as "Mewtwo" as opposed to "Mew 2", like how "Porygon 2" isn't called "Porygontwo".

This is grasping at straws. Dr. Fuji probably didn't even give Professor Oak any data.

To be fair, I've been using the term "Forme" personally. As we don't even know if Mewnew is a new form/forme, obviously there has been no official correspondence on the matter.

So you still think that the source of the movie pamphlet is lying? Okay then.

I've explained this many times: Through the process of Mewtwo being created it's possible that it either suffered from a developmental abnormality (my theory) or shock from severe physical trauma (your theory), both of these possibly leading to Mewtwo being incapable of feeling any empathy, thus coming across as more instinctive or savage. So thus, the creation of this Newmew could have been done in a way that gets around that process, thus meaning Newmew doesn't have the emotional crutches that Mewtwo has.

I got it the first the time. The solution to Mewtwo's lack of empathy is irrelevant to the underlying reason for it, so I don't know why you keep bringing it up in the context of this particular discussion. Whatever the reason is, there could be a solution that would introduce the Forme.

A recent example would be the Keldeo movie with how it treated White Kyurem and Black Kyurem - there was no DNA Splicer in that movie (or even Reshiram or Zekrom). Kyurem transformed into both White Kyurem and Black Kyurem, but all three were shown on the poster as well. It's very likely that whatever mythos the movie gives us could be different to the game canon.

If the movie features Mewtwo transforming into something that Game Freak themselves decided to designate as a Forme, then it is more likely than not that a similar transformation will take place in the games. There is a difference between a missing plot element and a basic fact like a Pokémon's ability to switch its form.

It would also be very odd for The Pokémon Company and GameFreak to use an old Pokémon (albeit in a new form/forme) to promote new games.

They are promoting Mewtwo right now. You do remember that there is an event Mewtwo that is going to be distributed soon, right? What do you think it will be used for?

In regard to the journal entries, it's worth noting that in the English versions of the games, there is a noted "...ber" on one of the signs. Sure, that isn't there in the Japanese original, but it does seem odd that it was put there in the English one, especially when you consider that only 4 months actually end in "ber", when Mewtwo was born on 6th February. However, it's worth noting that according to the journal, it was on 1st September when the entry was written about Mewtwo being too powerful. It's possible that it could have been a translator trying to add in another reference and getting it wrong (after all, FRLG did get Janine's name wrong). It would be weird for them to try and add another reference in though, as they actually removed the Fuji reference.

The mere fact that they removed the Fuji reference goes to show that they can't be trusted. If Game Freak had wanted to hint at September or another month, they would have done it themselves.

 

[Infinity Edge]

Re: Revealed Gen VI Pokemon Discussion/Speculation Thread

I'm little bit sad that we had only one pokemon reveal. The Masuda teaser has led me into thinking that there will be at least two reveals. It's also very firmly confirmed that Gamefreak is having fun about this secrecy, and not gonna end it anytime soon.
Again the new creation is based on an older pokemon like Sylveon is based on Eevolutions. I'm sure there is no chance of many leaks about this newest one, since it's highly likely a legendary pokemon - meaning it will get less appearance in the game/movies generally. About it's appearance, I don't mind all but it's arms and especially legs, those look bad to me. It's head is also disproportionate to the size of the body, making it look....painful to me ._.
I think it's been strongly implied by now that generation 6 will deal about genetic modification of the pokemon from previous generations. I am opposite to that idea, since I think that it's going far ahead of "disturbing the pokemon nature" like the people of pokemon world do sometimes. I thought the idea of such interference is already bashed by those people, since they didn't obviously enjoy the reception of Mewtwo and Genesect..

I beg to differ. In my opinion, Mewtwo becoming tamer and closer to Mew would be more interesting than anything involving a Mewthree. I would also think that Mewthree would have a more unique design to set it apart from both Mew and Mewtwo.

The updated movie poster leaves little doubt in mind that this is a Forme. If it were a different species, it would be shown alongside Mewtwo rather than taking its place. The movie title "Mewtwo Awakens" and the trailer saying that "we haven't seen the real Mewtwo yet" further imply that Mewtwo will transform.

On the official sites it writes "New Pokémon", "Pokémon that is strangely familiar!" and "It is suspected that the newly discovered Pokémon has some sort of connection with the Legendary Mewtwo..."

All of these imply that the pokemon we discuss is a separate species, I think.

 

[Joshawott]

Re: Revealed Gen VI Pokemon Discussion/Speculation Thread

There's no logical reason why he couldn't have just referred to it as a Mew, even if it was only intended to be an experimental subject. Unless the original designation was "Mew #1" and "Mew #2", but that doesn't explain why the Pokédex refers to it as "Mewtwo" as opposed to "Mew 2", like how "Porygon 2" isn't called "Porygontwo".

This is grasping at straws. Dr. Fuji probably didn't even give Professor Oak any data.

I never said he did.

To be fair, I've been using the term "Forme" personally. As we don't even know if Mewnew is a new form/forme, obviously there has been no official correspondence on the matter.

So you still think that the source of the movie pamphlet is lying? Okay then.

Until I actually see some text from the pamphlet that says "Éclair Forme" I'm not going to jump at everything an anonymous person on 2ch says all because they supplied one image.

I've explained this many times: Through the process of Mewtwo being created it's possible that it either suffered from a developmental abnormality (my theory) or shock from severe physical trauma (your theory), both of these possibly leading to Mewtwo being incapable of feeling any empathy, thus coming across as more instinctive or savage. So thus, the creation of this Newmew could have been done in a way that gets around that process, thus meaning Newmew doesn't have the emotional crutches that Mewtwo has.

I got it the first the time. The solution to Mewtwo's lack of empathy is irrelevant to the underlying reason for it, so I don't know why you keep bringing it up in the context of this particular discussion. Whatever the reason is, there could be a solution that would introduce the Forme.

It's relevant because it could be the difference between a new creation being made to correct the mistakes of the last creation (Mewtwo), or Mewtwo realising that life is pretty and full of flowers and magically transforming.

A recent example would be the Keldeo movie with how it treated White Kyurem and Black Kyurem - there was no DNA Splicer in that movie (or even Reshiram or Zekrom). Kyurem transformed into both White Kyurem and Black Kyurem, but all three were shown on the poster as well. It's very likely that whatever mythos the movie gives us could be different to the game canon.

If the movie features Mewtwo transforming into something that Game Freak themselves decided to designate as a Forme, then it is more likely than not that a similar transformation will take place in the games. There is a difference between a missing plot element and a basic fact like a Pokémon's ability to switch its form.

Except that in Black 2/White 2, Black Kyurem and White Kyurem are a result of Kyurem merging with Zekrom and Reshiram respectively, the movie completely sidestepped that one. Then there's Destiny Deoxys, which featured Deoxys being able to transform into its various formes, which it wasn't able to do until Generation IV.

It would also be very odd for The Pokémon Company and GameFreak to use an old Pokémon (albeit in a new form/forme) to promote new games.

They are promoting Mewtwo right now. You do remember that there is an event Mewtwo that is going to be distributed soon, right? What do you think it will be used for?

I'm talking about it being odd that they're using Mewnew as the main movie promotion for the games. Prior to then, it was more likely that Mewtwo was just there to promote the movie, with Genesect being used to promote B2W2. Using a Gen I Pokémon to promote a Gen VI game, even if that Pokémon does receive a new forme, is odd.

In regard to the journal entries, it's worth noting that in the English versions of the games, there is a noted "...ber" on one of the signs. Sure, that isn't there in the Japanese original, but it does seem odd that it was put there in the English one, especially when you consider that only 4 months actually end in "ber", when Mewtwo was born on 6th February. However, it's worth noting that according to the journal, it was on 1st September when the entry was written about Mewtwo being too powerful. It's possible that it could have been a translator trying to add in another reference and getting it wrong (after all, FRLG did get Janine's name wrong). It would be weird for them to try and add another reference in though, as they actually removed the Fuji reference.

The mere fact that they removed the Fuji reference goes to show that they can't be trusted. If Game Freak had wanted to hint at September or another month, they would have done it themselves.

So you'll put full trust in a random Japanese person on a message board, but not the people who actually officially translate the game?

If this does turn out to be yet another damn gimmick form though...urgh...GameFreak are really starting to annoy me with them. As if Shaymin and Giratina weren't enough, then they gave us the Therian formes and the absolutely useless Keldeo Resolute form...