Review JN007: The Hoenn Region, Site of Fierce Fights! The Battle Frontier Challenge!!

[Almonds]

I can't remember if Dawn was advertised as a duo protagonist with Ash like they advertised Gou. Did they use the same phrasing and everything? Or is it just people considering her and Ash to be a duo protagonist when it was never officially stated by the anime team or promotional material?

 

[P_S_B]

The world building in this show continues to be laughably bad. Would any of us have been able to gather that this episode takes place in the Houen Region if we hadn't explicitly been told so? The wild Pokémon all being Houen creatures barely counts since we've been seeing groups of wild Pokémon living outside their native regions since Gen 2.

The tournament could have taken place in any random town in any random region and literally nothing would have been different.

To be fair the establishing shot does actually look like the Battle Frontier from Emerald, although the number of modern viewers who would recognize that location from one establishing shot is probably not that high given that the Frontier itself hasn't been in a game since 2005. The setting throughout the rest of the episode was also largely recognizable as the Emerald Battle Frontier, even without seeing all the facilities. The lack of wild Hoenn Pokémon didn't bother me as much as it might have since the Frontier didn't exactly have a wide variety of wild Pokémon in the game to begin with. That being said the Wyndon episode had a similar establishing shot as the only real indication of where it was and I complained about that, so it's still a fair comment, especially when Hoenn itself is one of the more scenic regions, something the actual Hoenn anime also neglected to do justice to.

With this in mind I do think that perhaps another location might have better served as an introduction to the Hoenn region as a whole with the Battle Frontier being the setting of another episode in the future after the region had been established and adequately shown off.

 

[Nicolas721]

The episode wasn't bad, but it isn't certainly something I'd recommend for someone who wants to get into the series again. I think the concept of the episode was just to show how Ash & Go approach battles, which is cool, but for this point of the series it should have taken place in a smaller setting. For example, this guy Houji just watches the duo doing some mission in Fortree City and challenges them to battle. That way we wouldn't have had all the rounds being skipped or the Battle Frontier being an in-name-only situation besides some backgrounds and it would have had the same effect.

It's unexpected to see Go lose that way, I'm intrigued about what it will really mean. Ash's battle was cool but I don't know if Mr. Mime was really a justifiable choice as it came from nowhere.

 

[Almonds]

Also, yeah.. getting knocked out when you are trying to set up (Swords Dance in this case). Happens all the time. I was rather impressed that they showcased that in the anime.

 

[BugCatcherinVF]

I don't think Satoshi ever got defeated so completely bad in one of his firsts battles, which I think it shoes he was more talented for battling than average (or pikachu is)

 

[Moe]

Was a bit tempted to just switch the episode off when Ash revealed Mr Mime as his other Pokemon - it is really going to get annoying if Ash both doesn't catch anything new and also doesn't use any of his past Pokemon - Pikachu is way over battled already this series and using his Mom's Pokemon over his own just rubs salt into the lack of his reserves getting screen time.

Mr Mime being good at battling also runs counter to the lesson that Go should have learnt here - not that battles can be fun - but that you have to actually train for them and work with Pokemon - not just take wild Pokemon that were in the most part weak enough to be caught without weakening them and them instantly being battle ready.

In episode this was explained away with the kung-fu, but that explains the dodges, not Ash being able to battle with a Pokemon who spends more time cleaning up after him than training with him.

I'm really not enjoying the direction the series is taking right now.

 

[Silktree]

@Kyriaki The professor thought the rock was Metapod because he was too worried to notice. The only problem with that scene was Scorbunny not being scolded for being reckless.

The world building in this show continues to be laughably bad. Would any of us have been able to gather that this episode takes place in the Houen Region if we hadn't explicitly been told so? The wild Pokémon all being Houen creatures barely counts since we've been seeing groups of wild Pokémon living outside their native regions since Gen 2.

As P_S_B said, you could tell that it was the Battle Frontier island. It's also clear that they're going to stick to showcasing Pokemon in their native regions as much as possible, which only makes sense in this particular series. All of the Pokemon they showcased in the tournament were from Hoenn.

Still, they could have said more about the other facilities, but that would have been hard to do without giving Ash a reason to stay there.

 

[BigDocFan]

Looking at this shot of Mimey

Spoiler

Whilst a nice reference to Detective Pikachu, its so good yet creepy at the same time

 

[Panky..]

I can't remember if Dawn was advertised as a duo protagonist with Ash like they advertised Gou. Did they use the same phrasing and everything? Or is it just people considering her and Ash to be a duo protagonist when it was never officially stated by the anime team or promotional material?

She wasn't explicitly announced to be a protagonist alongside Ash as in the same "dual protagonist" manner they're doing now, but the way she grew throughout DP without Ash ever feeling like a sidekick pretty much made her one half of a "dual protagonist" premise. The same cannot be said for PM2019 where Ash so far has been relegated to being background, the butt of jokes, getting attacked unprovoked and what not, and just having the spotlight being taken off him instead of sharing it.

Spoiler

 

[Jaye]

I have two issues with this episode:

1) There's this pervasive disconnect between events in this show because stuff happens for no real reason other than just because. The only reason Ash and Gou went to Hoenn for the Battle Frontier was because Ash just randomly decided he wanted to go to Hoenn. There's no problem with him wanting to participate in tournaments, but where did he learn about the tournament in the first place? A simple scene of him seeing a poster or TV ad either at the start of this episode or the end of the previous one would have sufficed, but without it this felt like a random plot development. Gou just agrees; there's no dilemma involved for him despite later displaying reservations about battling. He experiences this quick and dirty character development, but to what end? To this point, he had yet to display any dislike for battling. Now that he has, it's suddenly no longer a problem. So the expectation now is that he'll participate in more battles, but battling trainers isn't what he wants to do in the first place. Maybe this is an issue with the episodic nature of the show, but I felt this was something that could have done with more time in the oven, instead of being introduced and then resolved within the same episode. As it was, I was left questioning why Gou needed to this development in the first place.

Then there's Mr. Mime. We know it's a domestic Pokemon that's never been fond of battling unless absolutely necessary, but now it's happy to battle for Ash? The final shot of the episode implied it really wanted the flutes, but where did it see the flutes in the first place? I can buy it being a stronger battler than we expect, but there really needed to be a scene or two to at least foreshadow its new role on Ash's team.

This is related to what I was saying in the impressions thread, too. The Battle Frontier is an old concept returning for this episode, except they do absolutely nothing with it. It might as well have been any other random tournament. It's entire purpose seemed to be to make people go "Battle Frontier? I remember that!" which is blatantly cynical. I'm not expecting a parade of cameos or references, but how hard would it have been to have Ash explain what it is to Gou, and maybe mention he participated once before? They could even reference the symbols they showed us in Ash's room in the second episode. Without these small touches, the whole thing feels hollow. I'd much rather a brand new location than these husks of old locations they're currently giving us.

2) It was touched upon already, but the world-building remains lacking. If I'm a new viewer to the show, I would not be able to tell you the difference between Vermillion City in Kanto, Wyndon in Galar and Battle Frontier in Hoenn, other than the buildings looking a bit different. If they're going to spend such a short amount of time in each location, they really need to make sure each place looks distinctive; just a couple more establishing shots would go a long way towards improving this.

Maybe it's unfair to dump on this episode specifically because these are the two biggest issues I have with the show in general at the moment. There were good things. I liked them giving some personality to the Pokemon Gou caught before because that goes a long way to alleviating my concerns with his goal. Even if it's only a shallow look, at least it's something. Houji was a decent character of the day; his design was strong and personality just memorable enough. The battles were solid. Gou got creamed, as he should do against an opponent clearly above his level, and it was the catalyst for some character development, even I'm sceptical about where it's going. Ash pulling a Lana and trolling Gou at the end was funny; I always like these small moments of character interaction. So compared to last week's, I thought this episode had more going for it.

 

[Konja7]

She wasn't explicitly announced to be a protagonist alongside Ash as in the same "dual protagonist" manner they're doing now, but the way she grew throughout DP without Ash ever feeling like a sidekick pretty much made her one half of a "dual protagonist" premise. The same cannot be said for PM2019 where Ash so far has been relegated to being background, the butt of jokes, getting attacked unprovoked and what not, and just having the spotlight being taken off him instead of sharing it.

In a "dual protagonist" premise, that happens some episodes. In some episodes, one of the protagonists have focus, while the other is relegated. Then there are other episodes where the situation is reversed between these protagonists

Now, I don't think it is so bad that there are 3 episodes that focus mainly on Go, since they needed to establish their relationship with Scorbunny and Go's goal. I am sure there will be 3 episodes where the main focus is Ash, while Go is relegated.


However, if only Dawn lost the spotlight (as she was more relegated at the end) while Ash always mantain it, that isn't a "dual protagonist" premise.



PS: "The butt of jokes" or "getting attacked unprovoked" are things that main protagonists in anime suffer all the time. So, that is not really an intention to relegate the character.

 

[Silktree]

Maybe this is an issue with the episodic nature of the show, but I felt this was something that could have done with more time in the oven, instead of being introduced and then resolved within the same episode. As it was, I was left questioning why Gou needed to this development in the first place.

Go wasn't interested in battles before the end of this episode. Ash dragged him to Hoenn and asked him to watch his battles despite his own loss, and Go didn't even agree to do it until he changed his mind without Ash knowing. Remember that his sole interest in his debut was to catch Mew, so they're gradually expanding his viewpoint.

I can buy it being a stronger battler than we expect, but there really needed to be a scene or two to at least foreshadow its new role on Ash's team.

Agreed. They haven't clarified if Mimey is going to be used later on.

Without these small touches, the whole thing feels hollow. I'd much rather a brand new location than these husks of old locations they're currently giving us.

It is a new location as far as the anime is concerned. There was never much of a reason to expect the Kanto Battle Frontier to be referenced.

2) It was touched upon already, but the world-building remains lacking. If I'm a new viewer to the show, I would not be able to tell you the difference between Vermillion City in Kanto, Wyndon in Galar and Battle Frontier in Hoenn, other than the buildings looking a bit different. If they're going to spend such a short amount of time in each location, they really need to make sure each place looks distinctive; just a couple more establishing shots would go a long way towards improving this.

I disagree and if your standards are that high, I'd like to see how you distinguish most of the cities in OS, AG and DP before the more drastic animation changes.

I am not saying that the designs are perfect, but it's easy to tell them apart.

 

[Jaye]

Go wasn't interested in battles before the end of this episode. Ash dragged him to Hoenn and asked him to watch his battles despite his own loss, and Go didn't even agree to do it until he changed his mind without Ash knowing. Remember that his sole interest in his debut was to catch Mew, so they're gradually expanding his viewpoint.

Which would be fine, but IIRC, the bold part was never established as a specific part of his character. The episode just before had him battling with few reservations, and in this episode he shows zero reservations about going to the Battle Frontier, nor puts up any resistance about entering the tournament. I had zero reason to believe he had a problem with battling until he lost.

There was never much of a reason to expect the Kanto Battle Frontier to be referenced.

The mere fact they're at a Battle Frontier is reason enough, if only to highlight the difference between this one and the one Ash participated in before.

I disagree and if your standards are that high, I'd like to see how you distinguish most of the cities in OS, AG and DP before the more drastic animation changes.

You've shown me a bunch of buildings, which I've already acknowledged as being different. What you'll notice in each of those shots is a lack of fine detail that communicate what those locations are about and what the way of life there might be like.

The Wyndon example is the most egregious here. Galar has a heavy sports culture and Wyndon is supposed to be the centre of that, but there's no reference to that at all. The streets and the train station are barren. You don't even get a glimpse of the stadium.

If they can't communicate these details through aesthetics due to technical reasons, the alternative is to have the characters interact with a specific, unique aspect of the city. This was how they handled the world building in the older seasons. For example, in OS, you had gyms that served other purposes than just hosting battles. Cerulean City's gym was an aquarium and place people could go for entertainment; Celadon City's gym was a social club for people who liked perfume and other fragrances; Saffron City's gym was a school for psychics; and Fuschia City's gym was a school for ninjas. This gave you a small glimpse into the way of life in these cities, what sorts of people might be living there, and what they do for fun. It's nothing deep but it made those locations more memorable.

I don't think my standards are too high at all. Back in the day, you even had completely original locations that had more life than what's been shown in Pokemon 2019, to say nothing of the movie locations. It's disappointing now because they can have more things going on in any shot they than used to, and they can pack far more detail into any scene than they used to, but they're not doing so. This is an adventure series with an emphasis on hopping from one location to the next, so this stuff should be important.

 

[Konja7]

Which would be fine, but IIRC, the bold part was never established as a specific part of his character. The episode just before had him battling with few reservations, and in this episode he shows zero reservations about going to the Battle Frontier, nor puts up any resistance about entering the tournament. I had zero reason to believe he had a problem with battling until he lost.

In this Episode, Go has no problem to battle (until he lost), but he has little interest to battle in a tournament at first.

It is implied the main reason why Go goes to Hoenn is because he wants to catch Pokemon.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

In this Episode, Go has no problem to battle (until he lost), but he has little interest to battle in a tournament at first.

It is implied the main reason why Go goes to Hoenn is because he wants to catch Pokemon.

He went there because Ash signed him up for this tournament.

 

[Daren]

Maybe so, but not the way they're doing it in this series. Just watch the last episode and tell me if Ash deserved to get attacked for no reason or not.

It's a bit jarring the new series is portraying Pikachu as consistently strong in battle but is unable to successfully zap Scorbunny for randomly assaulting his trainer.

It's a bit odd since usually Pokémon attacked their own trainers (Croagunk, James' various Pokémon, Pikachu, Snorunt) for these gags, but Gou's being spared that.
Edit: I'm not going to call him a Stu since he got demolished in this episode but he does seem to get off easy compared to Ash so far.

 

[Konja7]

Compare the first seven episodes of DP to this series. No seriously, do it. Feels different? Feels far better?

Yes it does. That's because, unlike this series, DP writers took care of developing both characters simultaneously without making the other feel irrelevant... to the point they intertwined both character's arcs often.

I really like the Episodes of Pocket Monsters so far. So, I don't think it will feel better.

I understand that you don't like how they handle it, but I don't think there's anything wrong with focusing mainly on one of the main protagonists for three episodes (although Ash still do some relevant things in Episodes 4 and 5).

I'm sure they also plan episodes focused almost exclusively on Ash.

Maybe so, but not the way they're doing it in this series. Just watch the last episode and tell me if Ash deserved to get attacked for no reason or not.

It's pretty common that a protagonist is attacked as a joke in an anime, he deserve it or not.

This doesn't mean the protagonist is relegated.

 

[nickdt]

Based on the ending, it seems Mimey has gotten a taste of battling now. Will it be that one Pokemon with the perfect winning streak.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

I'm sure they also plan episodes focused almost exclusively on Ash.

Episode 9 seems like a good candidate to be such an episode.

 

[Kurolegacy]

Saw the sub and I see the writers never even bothered to explain both why Ash didn’t consider using his reserves or why he was using Mimey in the first place. That just feels like lazy writing at it’s finest considering the questions it raises.

Also does this episode imply that at some point, Ash’s mom caught Mimey with a pokeball cuz it having a pokeball was never a thing before.