Kanto Gym Battles; Ash wasn't THAT bad was he?

[Srebak]

Frankly I still believe that the first season was being needlessly cruel, critical and judgmental towards Ash and his behavior didn’t really make all that much sense at times at least not to me. Also, I still do not think that ‘pity’ is the right word to describe how he got certain badges, it just doesn’t fit with what really happened

 

[Antiyonder]

Also, I still do not think that ‘pity’ is the right word to describe how he got certain badges, it just doesn’t fit with what really happened

Isn't it? I mean by just giving him the badges even though he didn't defeat the Gym Leaders it does have that implication that he didn't/doesn't have what it takes to win them the more traditional way (despite the fact that he was close to a legit win with Misty and how Erika despite being tough wasn't exactly up there with Brock's Onix, Sabrina's Kadabra or Mewtwo).

Heck even if he developed more as a trainer early on (i.e. The Boulder and Cascade badges being the only two pity badges he obtained), would he really have had a chance to defeat Mewtwo had Giovanni not needing to take leave for business purposes.

Frankly I still believe that the first season was being needlessly cruel, critical and judgmental towards Ash

To a point sure, but I sometimes see it as maybe the production team suggesting that he had what it takes to get by because he has a good heart, only to realize by say the time of getting up to say the Volcano Badge (which Blaine takes a poke at the premise of Ash getting his badges as he mostly did) and understanding that said approach gives the problematic message of how you can get by on kindness alone with or without talent.

 

[MarshiyanMisutaa]

The Rainbow Badge also I can't see why it had to be handle as a pity badge. Erika's no slouch, but her Pokémon aren't necessarily up there with Onix or say Kadabra, plus Ash had more type advantages to exploit like Pidgeotto being a flyer, plus it could blow the Gloom stench away easily. Not really something implausible for him to consider at that point in the show.

Erika was destroying his team, though.

 

[Srebak]

Isn't it? I mean by just giving him the badges even though he didn't defeat the Gym Leaders it does have that implication that he didn't/doesn't have what it takes to win them the more traditional way (despite the fact that he was close to a legit win with Misty and how Erika despite being tough wasn't exactly up there with Brock's Onix, Sabrina's Kadabra or Mewtwo).

Heck even if he developed more as a trainer early on (i.e. The Boulder and Cascade badges being the only two pity badges he obtained), would he really have had a chance to defeat Mewtwo had Giovanni not needing to take leave for business purposes.

Not really, seeing as giving him a badge out of pity implies that they gave them to him because he kept on moping about and/or they just gave him what he wanted to make him clam up and stop bothering them or something along those lines.

However, with Brock; he lost the first battle and then came back for another after being given a chance to make his Pokémon more powerful, and then, when a technicality (i.e. the sprinkler system) could have granted Ash the perfect opportunity to end it all right then and there, he chose not to go for it in the end and was willing to just leave Pewter City all together. Brock’s badge didn’t come from pity, it came from him being impressed with the type of person that Ash was at his core, the same thing could arguably be said about the events with Erika as well.

With Misty’s gym, as the OP already said, to be fair; Ash came there with the intention of battling for the Cascade badge, and he was only going to take it without battling with a great deal of hesitation to him. Plus, if given time, Ash could have been able battle hard against Misty and Pikachu apparently wasn’t entirely with him on that occasion in any event. Anyway, though, Ash was given that badge not out of pity but for helping to defend the gym itself against Team Rocket’s attack, once more, it was through an act of character that showed just what type of person that Ash really was.

As for the Viridian City gym battle; well, when you think about, that battle was going to be unfair either way. I mean think about it; if Ash was battling against the TRio and their nasty tricks, he would have been battling against Giovanni and his captured Mewtwo, a Pokémon that practically nobody outside of the Team Rocket organization knew even existed.

Some of Ash’s badges might not have been won in the traditional sense, but calling them pity badges just doesn’t really sound accurate to me at all

To a point sure, but I sometimes see it as maybe the production team suggesting that he had what it takes to get by because he has a good heart, only to realize by say the time of getting up to say the Volcano Badge (which Blaine takes a poke at the premise of Ash getting his badges as he mostly did) and understanding that said approach gives the problematic message of how you can get by on kindness alone with or without talent.

I think Ash’s core character trait was supposed to be determination, the will to never give up no matter what. Although, I still don’t understand why they made Ash’s knowledge of the Pokémon world so lacking at first, I mean he clearly had some previous experiences with Pokémon prior to the series itself and his family was clearly friends with one of the world’s leading Pokémon experts, how could the basic information about being a Pokémon trainer have passed him by? He can be stubborn at times sure, but he’s not stupid or obstinate

 

[Antiyonder]

Erika was destroying his team, though.

Maybe. I mean in the first place he did defeat her Tangela, and again if recalls count against the Gym Leader, that means she's also down to Gloom since she pulled back with Weepinbell.

Not to mention that with Onix, Ash lacked any Pokémon that had even a remote chance to deal with it and was even more inexperienced. Kadabra beside being a powerhouse was a Psychic type which again was a gamebreaker at the time.

Erika's Gloom while no slouch definitely not in the same boat. Besides Ash having a chance of type advantage with Pidgeotto, said Pokémon could easily deflect Gloom's stench back with one of it's moves.

I think Ash’s core character trait was supposed to be determination, the will to never give up no matter what. Although, I still don’t understand why they made Ash’s knowledge of the Pokémon world so lacking at first, I mean he clearly had some previous experiences with Pokémon prior to the series itself and his family was clearly friends with one of the world’s leading Pokémon experts, how could the basic information about being a Pokémon trainer have passed him by? He can be stubborn at times sure, but he’s not stupid or obstinate

I see it being part of how Ash is suppose to be the underdog trainers for the viewers to root for without realizing at first how it makes him look inadequate. I mean there already was some awareness as it was brought up several times that his first two badges were basically handed to him and it prompted him to work harder for the Lightning Badge.

I guess the writers figured a few legit badges would offset the fact that the other ones weren't obtained through talent/skill.

 

[NeoMiniTails]

All I can say is that if Butterfree was like Charizard, it would've showed up to Sabrina's gym like a boss with its babies and wife in tow.

In the words of Drake, "Butterfree's ain't loyal." Lol.

Seriously, though, Butterfree would've been highly effective in that battle. Gen 1 didn't make ghost types all that effective if I remember correctly.