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Norman says in B2W2 that he moved from Olivine City to Petalburg City and became stronger. If anything, he used to be the Olivine Gym Leader, but even that isn't really implied by his dialogue. He would definitely not consider himself stronger as a Gym Leader had he used to be the Champion.Kanto/Johto share the same league and we know Norman is from Johto.
I think he was a bit of a celebrity as you would expect the Champion to be.
After the humiliation of losing to a greenhorn trainer, who was then beat himself, Norman just couldn't handle the shame, hence why he moved him and his family off to Hoenn.
But he did come to Indigo Plateau to congratulate the player (even in the Johto games), so the E-mail doesn't really hint at a dropped element. Also, he wouldn't have needed an invitation had he been the Champion. I think it's more likely that Professor Oak was the Champion long ago when he was still a trainer.DasManiac said:I believe Professor Oak was originally intended to be Champion. His PC has an email from the Elite Four issuing a challenge to all trainers and specifically asking Oak to come to the Pokemon League. I guess the idea was dropped though and ultimately the Indigo League has no Champion until Blue.
But he did come to Indigo Plateau to congratulate the player (even in the Johto games), so the E-mail doesn't really hint at a dropped element. Also, he wouldn't have needed an invitation had he been the Champion. I think it's more likely that Professor Oak was the Champion long ago when he was still a trainer.DasManiac said:I believe Professor Oak was originally intended to be Champion. His PC has an email from the Elite Four issuing a challenge to all trainers and specifically asking Oak to come to the Pokemon League. I guess the idea was dropped though and ultimately the Indigo League has no Champion until Blue.
The E-mail merely said "PROF.OAK, please visit us!". They didn't actually expect him to come for a particular event; it was Oak who decided to wait until Blue and Red entered the Hall of Fame. Do you really think that a Champion would be asked to fulfill his job in such a roundabout way? The Champions may have enough free time to pursue other interests, but they shouldn't have to be asked to visit the league.But Prof. Oak receives that email before the start of the game, and doesn't arrive there until the end so I doubt its linked. Also how would the League know that 2 trainers he hadn't even given Pokemon too yet would soon become the Champs?
As we've seen in every game, the Champion is free to roam and do whatever they like as much as possible. So it makes sense that the League have to message them every once in a while to get them to come back to tend to whatever business.
That trainer data doesn't refer to him as a Champion and it only includes five Pokémon. Anyway, I don't think it matters what Game Freak's original plan might have been. In the story we actually got, Professor Oak obviously didn't lose to his grandson in Indigo Plateau.There's programmed data for an OAK fight with a similar yet different team to the one Gary uses, so I believe the original idea might of been that your final challenge is to beat the guy that set you off on your journey, who gave you your first Pokemon, rather than just your rival.
The E-mail merely said "PROF.OAK, please visit us!". They didn't actually expect him to come for a particular event; it was Oak who decided to wait until Blue and Red entered the Hall of Fame. Do you really think that a Champion would be asked to fulfill his job in such a roundabout way? The Champions may have enough free time to pursue other interests, but they shouldn't have to be asked to visit the league.
That trainer data doesn't refer to him as a Champion and it only includes five Pokémon. Anyway, I don't think it matters what Game Freak's original plan might have been. In the story we actually got, Professor Oak obviously didn't lose to his grandson in Indigo Plateau.There's programmed data for an OAK fight with a similar yet different team to the one Gary uses, so I believe the original idea might of been that your final challenge is to beat the guy that set you off on your journey, who gave you your first Pokemon, rather than just your rival.
I never caught this - that's really cool! I like the idea of the Elite Four being teased from the beginning. As it stands, you usually sort of face them as strangers. It's a bit of a wasted reveal; you play the game, beat the team, eight gyms down, and your reward is... four strangers! And someone you met a few times! Nobody really mentions them, they should be a bit more "present." Or at least make their absence into a plot point - maybe everyone's concerned because the Pokémon League is in shutdown, nobody's seen them, something's up? Gather the badges and investigate, find out what's going on. Not that, but something like that. Make them enigmatic or make them reclusive, make them difficult to trust - just make them characters!I believe Professor Oak was originally intended to be Champion. His PC has an email from the Elite Four issuing a challenge to all trainers and specifically asking Oak to come to the Pokemon League. I guess the idea was dropped though and ultimately the Indigo League has no Champion until Blue. Either that or Lance was some sort of pseudo Champion.
Simple enough, and makes sense. I'll go with that!Silktree said:Origins shows multiple Hall of Fame records, although the pictures are too blurry for the trainers to be seen. Of course, not everyone who enters the Hall of Fame has to function as the active Champion (it's pretty obvious that Red never did). It's quite possible that the person who entered the Hall of Fame before Blue didn't want to stick around, and so Blue didn't need to face anyone after Lance. That would explain Lance's dialogue.
I never caught this - that's really cool! I like the idea of the Elite Four being teased from the beginning. As it stands, you usually sort of face them as strangers. It's a bit of a wasted reveal; you play the game, beat the team, eight gyms down, and your reward is... four strangers! And someone you met a few times! Nobody really mentions them, they should be a bit more "present." Or at least make their absence into a plot point - maybe everyone's concerned because the Pokémon League is in shutdown, nobody's seen them, something's up? Gather the badges and investigate, find out what's going on. Not that, but something like that. Make them enigmatic or make them reclusive, make them difficult to trust - just make them characters!
Simple enough, and makes sense. I'll go with that!Silktree said:Origins shows multiple Hall of Fame records, although the pictures are too blurry for the trainers to be seen. Of course, not everyone who enters the Hall of Fame has to function as the active Champion (it's pretty obvious that Red never did). It's quite possible that the person who entered the Hall of Fame before Blue didn't want to stick around, and so Blue didn't need to face anyone after Lance. That would explain Lance's dialogue.
I'd like to think that, as others have said, Prof. Oak was the previous Champion. However, after Oak stepped down, there was no one strong enough to defeat the Elite Four and take his place until Blue. In fact, this line of thinking actually still works with or without Prof. Oak. If no one was strong enough to beat the Elite Four after the champ retired, then the Elite Four would obviously be lacking a champion. It just makes too much sense!