Review PG05: The Legacy

[ii kanji]

He isn't exactly your typical kid. Mafia children tend to be precocious.

There's precocious and then there's that.

 

[Silktree]

There's precocious and then there's that.

Paul's mannerism was obviously based on Silver and he was presumably 10. At least Silver is probably around 13 in present time.

 

[GurahkWeavile]

I enjoyed this episode, and I hope to see Silver more in any Pokemon animation.

 

[Syrinaris]

I really like these episodes where I'm seeing events play out that I didn't know had supposedly happened at some point in the games.
It was nice to see the flashbacks to the radio tower takeover, too, and the argument between Giovanni & Silver when Giovanni left.
I thought the voice actor for Silver did a really good job.
It's a shame the Indigo Plateau didn't have that lovely balcony in the design in the games. I'd totally waste time out there having a look-see at things.

 

[The Outrage]

I was hoping we'd see the aftermath of the HGSS event (Giovanni's second defeat). Oh well.

That definitely would have been a better story given the controversy of whether it was a splash vs radio static at the end. Maybe the Japanese fandom didn't care as much about that particular detail?

You could argue he didn't die because of Giovanni's inclusion in the Kanto Leader's Tournament in B2W2, but I doubt we're really expected to think each of those tournaments were 100% canon and not pandering to the fandom.

I'm glad we got Silver/Giovanni stuff but the dialogue was a bit heavy-handed for me. I assumed Silver was 10 (or so) during GSC, so how come his conversation 3 years earlier is so complex! Why isn't it just like "Daddy don't leave me!"?!

A rocket grunt mistook the player character for Giovanni's child, which would put Silver at around 10 - 12 at that time. They seem to have likely seen Silver since they knew he had red hair and made that comment rather than saying something along the lines of "his child is much younger"

 

[Silktree]

Maybe the Japanese fandom didn't care as much about that particular detail?

It doesn't seem that the shorts were made for the Japanese fandom... They're available in several languages, but not Japanese. They'll probably get them eventually, but still.

 

[Almonds]

I've never seen the Celebi event in HGSS (where you time travel and see Silver's past) but I assume the dialogue presented in this episode is pretty much what happens?

Anyways, finally Silver gets some speaking lines as an animated character!

 

[PinkIceFox]

I loved Silver getting attention.

ALso Booker's hair was very distracting.

Dude's got some kind of ultra fuzzy pokemon sucking out his brain juices or something.

 

[ii kanji]

Paul's mannerism was obviously based on Silver and he was presumably 10. At least Silver is probably around 13 in present time.

It's not the mannerisms I'm bothered about, or anything in the present time bit. I just found the flashback dialogue clunky and unrealistic, that's all.

 

[The Outrage]

You know, I just realized the one question re:Silver that nobody ever asks, but would have actually been good to address is this:

What exactly did he do those three years between when Giovanni disbanded the team, and when he set out to steal a Pokemon from Professor Elm?* Why did it take him so long to become a trainer? The video shows Silver saying that he's no longer interested in getting involved with his father...so maybe he only started his journey when he heard rumors that Team Rocket was reforming?

They could have shown him walking to Cherrygrove after stealing a starter, and reminiscing about the HgSs event, and ending with a flashback of him stealing the starter and explaining why he did it (presumably to beat Team Rocket and show his father that he's stronger alone). It would have been the same plot line in terms of flashbacks, but the present-day scenario would have explained why he didn't become a trainer until that point. It could have ended with his very first battle with Ethan (since he's what the previous short used)

I mean, its still good, but they could have made better use of those 4 minutes and 20 seconds rather than showing us that Looker still can't catch criminals without the help of children.

*maybe its two years because if the journey takes ~1 year, Giovanni disbanded the team at the end of Year 1, and Silver stole his Pokemon at the beginning of Year 3 (counting years since Red and Blue start their journeys)

-----

EDIT:
I just realized that Generations created a continuity snarl with ORAS. The Hoenn story is supposed to take place before HgSs (and likely around FrLg's events) but we have Looker who clearly doesn't have amnesia.

Unless of course, Looker somehow managed to track Giovanni and he got away while wiping Looker's memories (Looker's line, "I feel...as though I have some duty that I should be accomplishing... But of it, I can remember nothing," could refer to his tracking Giovanni)...which he got back by the time PG05 occurred.

Or there's interdimensional Hoopa antics.

And all this could have been avoided if they took a different angle at telling this story...I mean I get putting Looker in everything since he's popular but Generations kind of removed the only reason Looker was popular--his quirky personality.

 

[Silktree]

What exactly did he do those three years between when Giovanni disbanded the team, and when he set out to steal a Pokemon from Professor Elm?* Why did it take him so long to become a trainer? The video shows Silver saying that he's no longer interested in getting involved with his father...so maybe he only started his journey when he heard rumors that Team Rocket was reforming?

I'd like to think that Silver was with his mom (not Ariana) for those three years and that she wanted him to keep a low profile, so eventually he ended up rebelling against her and resorting to stealing.

As for Looker, while I agree that we didn't need to see him here, I don't think there is any continuity snarl. Even if you disregard Generations, the ORAS cameo implies that he was already a detective, so he obviously regained at least some of his memories at some point by Generation IV (which coincides with HGSS). Amnesia is rarely permanent.

 

[Esserise]

EDIT:
I just realized that Generations created a continuity snarl with ORAS. The Hoenn story is supposed to take place before HgSs (and likely around FrLg's events) but we have Looker who clearly doesn't have amnesia.

Unless of course, Looker somehow managed to track Giovanni and he got away while wiping Looker's memories (Looker's line, "I feel...as though I have some duty that I should be accomplishing... But of it, I can remember nothing," could refer to his tracking Giovanni)...which he got back by the time PG05 occurred.

Or there's interdimensional Hoopa antics.

In addition to what Silktree said, there is also the possibility which I've proposed before, which is that the timing of ORAS has been shifted so as not to concur with the Kanto story. Pushing it closer to XY would also make sense of the Team Flare reference and the Genesect guy in ORAS, which are otherwise completely anachronistic. Besides, there was never much that necessitated that the Kanto and Hoenn stories occur simultaneously (just the Sevii Islands machine, I think), and arguably this would also "fix" Steven's cameo in HGSS as well (it's not strictly a problem, since he only calls himself "the Champion from the Hoenn region" which is true as long as he has held the Championship at some point, but pushing ORAS further down the timeline conveniently removes the question altogether).

Generally I estimate ORAS to be 5 years before XY. We know that Team Plasma was active for at least 3 years before BW, and then 2 years after. A total of 5 years, which provides some precedent for Team Flare to follow. Team Flare existing for 5 years prior to XY rather than a whole decade or more (which is what you get by keeping ORAS in the same position as RSE) seems, to me, to be easier to swallow. On top of that, there's the Genesect Drives - the Genesect project could have been started 3 years before BW, around the same time that I think ORAS would have been taking place. And as it pertains to Looker, that gives him 3 years to recover from his amnesia before going to investigate Team Plasma in BW's postgame.

 

[Silktree]

I don't see the point of shifting the timeline while still making a point of ORAS being set prior to XY. They probably didn't give much thought to the Genesect or Team Flare references, especially as they never bothered to establish the gap between Generation IV and BW.

 

[Esserise]

I don't see the point of shifting the timeline while still making a point of ORAS being set prior to XY. They probably didn't give much thought to the Genesect or Team Flare references, especially as they never bothered to establish the gap between Generation IV and BW.

I doubt they put much thought into the references either, but nevertheless, they're in there now, and I think are worth accounting for. There's really no reason why ORAS has to take place next to the Kanto story; the two don't interconnect like HGSS and Platinum do, and One Island's Network Center is inconsequential because the argument of FRLG and RSE being contemporaneous revolved largely around the nature of their intergenerational connectivity via the Network Center, but obviously, FRLG cannot interact with ORAS in that way.

 

[The Outrage]

As for Looker, while I agree that we didn't need to see him here, I don't think there is any continuity snarl. Even if you disregard Generations, the ORAS cameo implies that he was already a detective, so he obviously regained at least some of his memories at some point by Generation IV (which coincides with HGSS). Amnesia is rarely permanent.

There are more episodes in Generations, and given how much Generations seems to like Looker, they might actually explain his amnesia through a back story. It could be like what I mentioned earlier and he lost his memory pursuing Giovanni, and got it back by the time he met Silver at the Indigo Plateau.

I doubt they put much thought into the references either, but nevertheless, they're in there now, and I think are worth accounting for. There's really no reason why ORAS has to take place next to the Kanto story; the two don't interconnect like HGSS and Platinum do, and One Island's Network Center is inconsequential because the argument of FRLG and RSE being contemporaneous revolved largely around the nature of their intergenerational connectivity via the Network Center, but obviously, FRLG cannot interact with ORAS in that way.

Team Plasma's existed since N was a young child, so who knows how long Genesect was in production. For all we know Ghetsis had the scientist work on Genesect for years, and the drives would be prototypes. I don't have the exact quote, but the Drive page on Bulbapedia states "He says that he received the plans for the Drives from an acquaintance of his in Unova and made the Drives from them himself." It doesn't even indicate that the original drives had been created yet.

As for Team Flare, again, we don't know how long Lysandre has been working in the background. His entire company could have been created to obfuscate Team Flare from the start until they needed to become more public with their actions. It takes a long time to create loyalty among team mates to the point that you don't expect any traitors, especially when one of your subordinates is ostensibly more powerful than you (i.e., Malva).

There's no reason to assume Plasma and Flare were recent creations in-universe, especially since Plasma should at least be as old as N. Saying ORAS is ahead in the timeline by 5 years begs the question as to why none of the characters are 5 years older (at the very least, the main characters) or why every other event takes place five years later (e.g., Vito challenging the league). There's more parsimonious ways to reconcile these references without assuming a timeline shift.

 

[Esserise]

Team Plasma's existed since N was a young child, so who knows how long Genesect was in production. For all we know Ghetsis had the scientist work on Genesect for years, and the drives would be prototypes. I don't have the exact quote, but the Drive page on Bulbapedia states "He says that he received the plans for the Drives from an acquaintance of his in Unova and made the Drives from them himself." It doesn't even indicate that the original drives had been created yet.

That's a good point, although you're thinking of the wrong Drives guy. The one in ORAS got them through the black market. It was the one in XY who received the plans from an "acquaintance" and constructed his own.

As for Team Flare, again, we don't know how long Lysandre has been working in the background. His entire company could have been created to obfuscate Team Flare from the start until they needed to become more public with their actions. It takes a long time to create loyalty among team mates to the point that you don't expect any traitors, especially when one of your subordinates is ostensibly more powerful than you (i.e., Malva).

What loyalty? The Scientists were personal friends of Lysandre's, and I'd wager Malva may have been too, but the grunts were all shallow rich folk whom Lysandre scared up and instructed to pay him if they wanted in on the new world order. They were just idiots who wanted to join the secret club, much like the Galactic grunts. Which speaking of, Cyrus basically went through Lysandre's whole journey by the age of 27. When did Cyrus find all of this time to not only establish a hugely successful corporate chain but also to ingrain assured loyalty into his followers? He didn't really need to, he just recruited selfish morons and rejects whom he knew he could handle if they didn't do as they were told.

Of course, that doesn't necessarily go against your point. I just don't think it's absolutely necessary that he needed a over ten years to form the group.

Saying ORAS is ahead in the timeline by 5 years begs the question as to why none of the characters are 5 years older (at the very least, the main characters) or why every other event takes place five years later (e.g., Vito challenging the league). There's more parsimonious ways to reconcile these references without assuming a timeline shift.

We already know it's an alternative universe, so in this timeline, those characters would have just been born five years later then in the original universe. Plus, that only really matters for the younger characters - five years wouldn't make Steven look particularly older (Looker being a prime example of this), so for the adult characters it could simply be that other things drew them along other paths for some duration of their lifetimes. Like Steven journeying to Kalos to look for Mega Stones and the Shiny Beldum - that would have never occurred in the timeline without Mega Evolution. Same for his supposed encounter with Alain and Rayquaza, if you take that to be canonical. Regardless, things like the discovery of the Fairy type, the presence of Mega Evolution, the invention of the PSS and Infinity Energy, the S.S. Cactus never crashing, and so on all could have had drastic effects on the decisions people made throughout their lives and even on what people existed when.

I mean if we get into it, there's already some timeline jiggery going on. Emerald was the canonical story in the original timeline. If that were happening concurrently with FRLG, then that means that there were "Emerald conditions" around that time, e.g. Juan being the Champion, and the Battle Frontier finishing completion. This is not the case in ORAS's version of history, where, if we figure that ORAS is concurrent with the events of Kanto, Steven is still the Champion, except one who uses Mega Evolution, and the Battle Frontier has only just entered development. The "Emerald conditions" won't be cemented in the timeline until later on than they were in the original version of history.