Review S25 EP51: Ash and Latios

[BigDocFan]

Ash's penultimate adventure has aired on Cartoon Network in Canada. Please keep all spoilers in spoiler tags

 

[RetroPokeFan]

Voice Characterization -

Sarah Natochenny
Michele Knotz
James Carter Cathcart
Rodger Parsons

Additional Voices -

Edward Bosco
Lex Lang
Haven Paschall
Bill Rogers
Erica Schroeder
Mick Wingert

 

[skynerel]

This storyline could’ve been rapt up in three episodes or less.

 

[BigDocFan]

It was interesting to note that Latias was dubbed but Latios wasn't

 

[snowmint]

Was the ending ruined, music wise?

 

[AgedVeteranofShow]

It was interesting to note that Latias was dubbed but Latios wasn't

Didn't 4Kids keep Latias' Japanese voice in the M05 dub, Megumi Hayashibara (aka Japanese Jessie/Musashi for the majority of the run)? An odd decision, but not surprising, Lisa Ortiz (?, as the VO director) apparently likes English dub voices for Pokémon?

Latias (M05) - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net

TPCi has so far redubbed over three Pokémon now that kept their Japanese voices in the entirety of the 4Kids dubbed run of OS to late AG, in the Journeys dub: Jessie's Arbok (kept from EP031 through AG006 in English, Koichi Sakaguchi's), Ash's Bayleef (kept its Japanese seiyu's voice Mika Kanai from EP199 through the remainder of the 4Kids dub and in the TPCi DP dub, but was redubbed over for a majority of the JN dub before it went back to its original voice in JN143), and Latias from M05 now (it kept its Japanese seiyu's voice in the English film apparently!).

 

[snowmint]

I thought Dogasu said the movie 5 laties were dubbed over...

 

[AgedVeteranofShow]

I thought Dogasu said the movie 5 laties were dubbed over...

Latios was not actually dubbed over apparently, nor Latias, back then. Basically 4Kids gave both the Laties to Megumi Hayashibara (replacing one Japanese voice with another for Latios, originally it is Masashi Ebara for the former but they opted to have the Laties with a synonymous English portrayal), so that's what happened.

So this is the first time Latias has been dubbed over into English, apparently? Interesting.

 

[Poke Trey]

OK, this was definitely the more story heavy episode of the miniseries. The build-up with Latias across the season, Ash showing why he's a friend to everyone and defeating hunters with no remorse towards them. Also, Latios Is 1 of my fave legendaries, so I'm glad that the plot was essentially M05 the episode. Alright, 1 last episode, it's all over next week boys. Still not sure if I'm ready for it

 

[BigDocFan]

Latios was not actually dubbed over apparently, nor Latias, back then. Basically 4Kids gave both the Laties to Megumi Hayashibara (replacing one Japanese voice with another for Latios, originally it is Masashi Ebara for the former but they opted to have the Laties with a synonymous English portrayal), so that's what happened.

So this is the first time Latias has been dubbed over into English, apparently? Interesting.

Latias and Latios were both dubbed during the Hoopa movie

 

[AgedVeteranofShow]

Latias and Latios were both dubbed during the Hoopa movie

Thanks for that trivia! It seems to be the case that once Theresa Buchheister became the VO director, some Pokémon got dubbed over that weren't prior huh? Odd stuff.

 

[BigDocFan]

There are reasons why some get dubbed, Togepi was dubbed in M21 as the team couldn't seperate its Japanese voice among the other Pokemon

 

[AgedVeteranofShow]

There are reasons why some get dubbed, Togepi was dubbed in M21 as the team couldn't seperate its Japanese voice among the other Pokemon

Interesting stuff: I recall back in early Season 1 they didn't have audio for Otani's Pikachu so that's why Lillis filled in, in some instances (vividly recall the end of EP001 w/her audio there and some scenes in EP009 as some examples), until mid Kanto-ish on to the remainder of the 4Kids Era to the end it was the same throughout as in Japanese & remains that way to this day.

 

[Insanish Danish]

Was the ending ruined, music wise?

This is what I'm curious about. The usage of Search for the Girl in this episode was perfect (may or may not have teared up due to the nostalgia gut punch) and I'm holding on to an extremely small shred of hope that maaaaaybe the dub left it alone.

 

[AgedVeteranofShow]

This is what I'm curious about. The usage of Search for the Girl in this episode was perfect (may or may not have teared up due to the nostalgia gut punch) and I'm holding on to an extremely small shred of hope that maaaaaybe the dub left it alone.

According to pocketmonsters.net, nope (we also don't know who the new Professor Oak is either, he's got a total of 7 dub VAs in total across various media in all to date though- he had just 1 VA consistently in the 4Kids Era over the first 8 years and that person naturally is the fan favorite as per the norm in English, post-it JCC was the first TPCi Prof. Oak in the MoMP dub and whoever it is now is the most recent after Silverstein Oak in Evolutions-- snoring, who was generically bland-- confirmed nu-Meowth is Mick Wingert and nu-James is Edward Bosco post-JCC through per that source evidently).

4/15 kept in this one of the tracks in the actual episode (26.6%, believe it or not that's better than the norm these days & not even a joke).

Search for the Girl apparently was a track not kept in the dub (it was kept back in the dub of M05 though obviously, but that was 4Kids/TAJ in 2003 in charge of that dubbed film & their last joint collaboration before the two parted ways until both lost the Series' rights just a handful of years later respectively post-M08/S08 & S10/M09 respectively via PUSA/TPCi changing studios twice over during that period), but on the flip side, they kept Route 38 (1999-2001, M35) and that shocks me given it's Goldfarb, as it was only heard in the 4Kids dub of Seasons 3 & 4 in Early-Mid Johto in the Anime dub prior to this, so there's that?

 

[snowmint]

Im dreading if the last ep is completely rescored...

 

[AgedVeteranofShow]

Im dreading if the last ep is completely rescored...

So much of it is comprised of Japanese OST tracks 4Kids kept in especially the Johto portion of the Anime dub, ironically, we'll see what Farb, Gopal, and co. do...

Anyway I like to torture myself by sitting through the dub (kidding), so glancing at it in all seriousness, they had the main three read the title card and it has a very disjointed feeling, to say the least (incredibly lame TPCi has had Goldfarb rescoring it all through JN, in the 4Kids run outside of EP001 at least they put some Japanese OST cue in place of it at worst to the end of AG145). Also, a TPCi dub era episode title without an exclamation mark at the end of it in the title card? Pinch me, I'm dreaming!

Voice Acting Comments (Scroll below if uninterested):

Re: Lex Lang, he sounded REALLY awkward at first as the hunter, and the voice is honestly deeper than I had imagined...but it's a cooler villain-esque voice than his Maxie, I suppose, it got a bit better as it went on but he still has moments of sounding a bit too forced to me.

Brock still feels totally miscast, more than ever in this one, far too deep & gruffy as has been the norm to me for Mr. Rogers in this role to me.

Misty is hit or miss as the norm with a nasal affliction and still has moments of sounding too old and womanly, than like a little girl, so it's all over the place as usual from Mrs. Knotz & par for the course.

Ash to round off is the "best"/least bad of the recast roles I suppose after 17 years, and I guess he sounds decent/okay when he's happy or excited nowadays, but his screaming around the 11 min mark is absolutely ear-shattering in the cave and the voice gets very grown woman-esque whenever he either has to yell or has to raise his voice in anger, and the performance feels completely unbelievable to me in any moments of high emotion of seriousness from Mrs. Natochenny (it's also notable at the 17 min mark, when she says "Use Aura Sphere" Ash sounds like a very angry grown woman in her late 20s-early 30s instead of a little boy as well as "Use psychic," just an unnatural and stilted delivery after all this time). Also, when he said, "We have to rescue Latios" he sounds a bit like a teenage girl, um?!

Now on to TRio, Edward Bosco is pretty much still on DP dub James tier with the nasal & goofy timbre, which means I hate it less than I do JCC's XY onward take, but more than anything from Lewis or Stuart ever, and meanwhile, Michele Knotz's Jessie is still super high pitched and valley girl-esque at times to me, though I think her Misty take is worse of the two roles she took over though FWIW. Mick Wingert is just impersonating JCC as Meowth, and it still sounds overly forced, gruffy, and deep, but that's because who he is impersonating in the first place took the dub incarnation in the exact wrong direction to me around mid DP onward (at first, Cathcart was imitating Blaustein in the TAJ BF/e.DP era, but around the time DuArt took over and the alliteration show began in the DP dub is when it dramatically nosedived to me, and never recovered).

(Note: Brock at the 15 min mark is absolutely atrocious, he sounds like an old man 100% when he yells there, as it is I find the voice outright unfitting even normally but whenever he gets emotional, it is at its very worst IMO)

Script oddity I noticed, didn't watch it in depth, but this stuck out:

"Let's all recharge our batteries" - Misty (This sounds fine...until you realize no little girl would say things like this, typical Cathcart, it's his "Pikachu's just about to hit the wall" from BW era Ash in the dub moment for Misty in the JN era dub, yuck: in Japanese, she just said, "Gotta make sure you're fully recharged.")

Side note: Glad Ash didn't say "Kay" at least, happy he has said "Okay" for a full dub episode for the first time post-4Kids without the former, but that it took this long is sad.

Music comment:

At the 14:45 mark, when Lex Lang's character in the Hunter says, "Get out of my way," I actually broke out in tears laughing, re: the music Goldfarb & co. could not have picked a more unfitting theme for that moment- it's supposed to be dramatic and serious, but his score made me laugh at how comedic it sounded when the shot hit Steelix.

 

[Die-Hard Dragon Devotee]

So much of it is comprised of Japanese OST tracks 4Kids kept in the Johto Anime dub, ironically, we'll see what Farb, Gopal, and co. do...

They butchered it. I don't think a single track from Pokemon Heroes was kept. Just more Goldfarb garbage, as usual.

 

[AgedVeteranofShow]

They butchered it. I don't think a single track from Pokemon Heroes was kept. Just more Goldfarb garbage, as usual.

Actually referring to the final episode coming next, but pretty much in this one, only 4 tracks that were kept are:

劇場版ポケットモンスター2002タイトルテーマ
Japanese (Romanized): Gekijouban Pocket Monsters 2002 Title Theme
Japanese (Trans): Theatrical Edition Pocket Monsters 2002 Title Theme

1999-2001-M35 38ばんどうろ
Japanese (Romanized): 38-ban dōro
Japanese (Trans): Route 38

SM M50 戦闘! ぬしポケモン
Japanese (Trans): Battle! Totem Pokémon

「戦闘!野生ポケモン2」～TV Anime Ver.
Japanese (Romanized): Sentō! Yasei Pokémon 2' ～TV Anime Ver.
Japanese (Trans): 'Battle! Wild Pokémon 2' ～TV Anime Ver.

That's it, it's above average for a Goldfarb era dub episode musically, but when the range is 1-6 pieces kept, a low bar to clear.

 

[Poke Trey]

Just need to praise this episode again on the following: voice acting, especially from Lex Lang was not expecting him, score which I still say it's the best we've gotten period and just good storytelling as we're just closing in on the last episode. I'll give this an 9/10.