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So is Journeys the Worst Series Ever?

Is JN the Worst

  • Yes

    Votes: 42 36.5%

  • No

    Votes: 44 38.3%

  • To early to tell

    Votes: 29 25.2%
  • Total voters
    115
FelipePR said:
These days ago I came across a video representing exactly that.

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Really goes to show that while Ash took something of a mentor role in Advanced, he still had a bit more growing to do with bits of his OS flair coming through especially now that he had a companion with her own goal that was just as big as his badge collection. It helped him to finally hit the point he was at in DP.
 
Well, now that it's been over a year since the end of Journeys proper and almost a year since the end of Aim to be mid, I can safely say that in my opinion, yes, Pokemon Journeys was the worst series of them all, overall. Sure, it had its moments, like Ash and Leon's final battle and Ash subsequently becoming the very best, like no one ever was, yada yada yada, Ash's old traveling companions returning, etc. But overall, there were just too many problems hindering this series for it to have been good. Terrible writing (including some of the worst episodes in the series, Marshtomp anyone?) awful music and animation, Ash's worst/most one-dimensional and boring traveling companion ever, and his most poorly-written team of them all made watching this series for me an utter drag. And how sad, that instead of getting a "grand finale" for what would ultimately end up being Ash's final series as a main protagonist, the writers choked instead, and we ended up getting the laziest, most soulless, and weakest Pokemon anime series of all time. Truly a pity. :cry:
 
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It's my second least favourite series for wasting such a grand opportunity (going through all regions) with boring/terrible filler episodes, the most dull one-note companions Ash has had, animation that aside from a few episodes didn't really match up to Sun & Moon's quality, the PWC being rather mediocre with only a few battles actually being great and a team that while still pretty cool was incredibly uneven in the writing department. It really should have been much better for Ash and Pikachu's final send-off (I personally think that the next time we see them it'll be via a full-on reboot similar to the I Choose You movie and not the same characters as we know them but hey, they could always surprise me).

But despite all this it was still nice to get to see a lot of old characters returning again (many for what will be the last ever time) and it does have some generally great episodes where when they deliver, they truly do deliver (Volkner's battle, the Alola visits, Paul's return and of course Ash vs Leon). You just kinda have to go through the crap to get there.
 
RetroPokeFan said:
Black and White.
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Yeeeeeah..........I can respect that. The one (two?) things(s) I will say BW had over JN was superior animation (art style?) and much better music (courtesy of Miyazaki,) not to mention Ash's Pokemon actually still felt like characters instead of mindless battle automatons like they did in JN. (Oh, and Krookodile being probably the coolest thing about that whole series, plus Charizard came back. :D) Buuuuut that's about it for praise for BW from me. Everything else was (mostly) really bad, I can totally see why you would have that opinion.


Elesa's gym battle.......(shivers.) :oops:
 
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I’d say it’s definitely in the top three worsts series. Whoever was in charge didn’t take advantage of the potential it had. This was the series to close loose threads, develop the characters further that ever before, give proper closure to Ash’s friends and to Ash himself etc. It feels extremely flat for it be a goodbye series to a character who had been on the show for decades.
 
I'd say BW is still worse than JN, SM is in it's own tier by itself. I could not get into that series, already went into detail about how much of a mess the Alola League was.

When it comes to BW there's little to nothing likable about the series, Ash just got done defeating his toughest rival at the time and then beat a trainer's undefeated Darkrai/tied with his Latios finishing in the Top 4 of the Sinnoh League.

He did all of that just to go to another region, get nerfed, talked down to by a lousy Dragon trainer and humiliated multiple times by a discount Paul.

JN had a lot of fanservice throughout the series by bringing back old characters from different regions, my biggest problem was the ridiculous powerscaling. Ash rotated and used a lot of his reserves, too bad he didn't do this until AFTER the Masters 8 Tournament.
 
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skynerel said:
I’d say it’s definitely in the top three worsts series. Whoever was in charge didn’t take advantage of the potential it had. This was the series to close loose threads, develop the characters further that ever before, give proper closure to Ash’s friends and to Ash himself etc. It feels extremely flat for it be a goodbye series to a character who had been on the show for decades.
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That's one of the reasons why I still don't think that they initially planned for Journeys to be Ash's sendoff series. It really doesn't feel like it was building up to some big sendoff for him, even with the PWC in mind. The first year of Journeys felt aimless and the PWC was practically a joke compared to what they eventually did with it. Aside from Iris and Serena, it doesn't feel like most of the characters who returned got much closure either. Despite Dawn appearing so much in Journeys, she pretty much did nothing off-screen and didn't really do much in her return episodes either. Not to mention Team Rocket got absolutely nothing to do for what turned out to be their sendoff series too. Granted, having Ash and Team Rocket continue their adventures off-screen is pretty fitting for how the anime tends to handle characters' departures. Most traveling companions have some sense of closure, but they're still working towards their goals in off-screen land too. So on one hand, Ash and Team Rocket just continuing on their adventures is fitting for the anime and their personalities, but at the same time, I can't blame fans for expecting something more for iconic characters.

To be fair, I don't think that the writers could have made Ash's sendoff feel natural after being the lead protagonist for over two decades. At the very least, I think pulling that off well would have been difficult even in the best of circumstances, so trying to make it work in a series like Journeys didn't help matters, especially when it definitely feel like Ash's departure was decided on halfway through the series.

I would still say that BW is the worst series. It was more frustrating, had some infamously bad moments for Ash and I hate pretty much everything about Iris. But I do think that Journeys being Ash's sendoff series makes it worse than it would have been otherwise, at least for me. I still had my fair share of issues with Journeys even before the news about Horizons came out, but it still had plenty of good moments and most episodes were usually pretty enjoyable. A good chuck of my issues with Journeys were about how Ash's team and storyline were handled, so making this his sendoff series made those probelms even worse. I still haven't finished watching Journeys for a couple of reasons, but that is one of them. As cool as Ash vs. Leon looks, I'm not sure if that is enough to make up for all of the other issues I had with his storyline. If the PWC was handled well from the start or if I felt differently abou it, maybe it would feel more satisfying.
 
Back when Journeys was announced, they mentioned the theme would be a "world tour" focusing on Ash and Pikachu visiting the regions introduced as of SwSh, yet ~60% of all episodes were set in Kanto. Goh, at first, had mainly catching as many Pokémon as possible as his goal, and the first half of the series had him catch a Pokémon in almost every episode. The fact that he received a Dynamax Band (that he only used once) and caught all three Galar staters also suggested there was a different arc planned instead of Project Mew.

I don't really know why the writers decided to randomly change the direction and squander the potential of a "world tour". The occasional arc had been rushed with unsatisfying endings (with one outright DEM during Dawn's second return), they didn't allow Ash to have a proper rematch with Alain in a blatant ratings bait, Chloe's arc was pointless, Rose never reappeared, and at several points in the second half of 2022, the anime completely stalled with breaks and clip episodes (something that was likely intended before the sudden deaths of Abe Shinzo and Queen Elizabeth II), something that was abutted to "production issues".

And then we get the send-off of Ash, Pikachu, and Team Rocket... an open-ended, fail-safe one with no real change to the status quo, in case they need to be brought back in Horizons (or Generation X's series). The so-called "grand finale" didn't really feel like one, as it was just random episodes that don't have Ash reuniting with his previous companions asides Misty, Brock, and Cilan, and having the villain be yet another smug a**hole who's no different to half of the villains from the movies, reinforcing the "black-and-white morality" this anime is known for. At least they finally brought back Pidgeot.

Wasted potential, I think this series ended up becoming known for.
 
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Never warmed up to Journeys from the start and my opinion of it hasn't changed. What bothered me the most was that some character returns seemed like quick nostalgia pandering rather than genuine attempts to give characters closure. If you're not going to develop your legacy characters, then just keep them off screen and don't bother bringing them back for a soulless ratings grab.
 
Everclear said:
Never warmed up to Journeys from the start and my opinion of it hasn't changed. What bothered me the most was that some character returns seemed like quick nostalgia pandering rather than genuine attempts to give characters closure. If you're not going to develop your legacy characters, then just keep them off screen and don't bother bringing them back for a soulless ratings grab.
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I will still never get over how Dawn was just so utterly wasted in Journeys, especially for a massively beloved companion.

Look, her appearance during Ash vs Leon I can get behind with her cheering on Ash with Chloe which was sweet but her proper major return which just immediately shifted her to the foreside in favour of generic Legendary situation #1375 twice was just so disappointing.
 
The English dub was one of the poorest ever save the last episode (TPCi censoring stuff even 4Kids never did in Hoenn makes me super smug though, unbelievable later TPCi censored stuff even later 4Kids didn't in Brock's maracas and Ash's head freezing-- even 4Kids literally retained those in Hoenn throughout: embarrassing stuff, truly), and the saga itself was pretty mediocre, but I can't say I hated it or loved it all that much (at least JN did give Ash a decent ending, but TR's was lousy and predictable- Brock, see TR, but Misty's was okay).
 
RetroPokeFan said:
I will still never get over how Dawn was just so utterly wasted in Journeys, especially for a massively beloved companion.

Look, her appearance during Ash vs Leon I can get behind with her cheering on Ash with Chloe which was sweet but her proper major return which just immediately shifted her to the foreside in favour of generic Legendary situation #1375 twice was just so disappointing.
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Add to that, for Dawn being a clear favorite amongst Ash’s companions, she had zero updates in either status or team since we last saw her in Best Wishes. At least give her an evolution or something.
 
I liked Dawn's relationship with Chloe, especially in her first return episode. She came off as a seasoned traveler, just enjoying the ride, which was a nice contrast to Chloe. That being said, it is still such a disappointment that despite appearing so much in Journeys, she made no progress off-screen. They gave Tracey a new Pokemon when he finally got a speaking role, but they couldn't do that with Dawn. It also felt pretty unbelievable that she went through multiple regions without catching any new Pokemon. They could have easily given her either a regular Typhlosion or the then new Hisuian Typhlosion during the Arceus special. It truly baffles me that they didn't do even that much when it would have been the easiest way to update her team, something that they were able to do with most other traveling companions when they return.
 
It's just so funny because Misty got a new Pokémon towards the end, some of Serena and Clemont's Pokémon (Braixen and Bunnelby) were shown to have evolved, Nihilego joined Lillie and Gladion's family alongside Mohn, Sophocles also had an Ampharos to keep him company with Togedemaru and Vikavolt with his work but apparently time must have completely frozen for Dawn since he last saw her.
 
RetroPokeFan said:
It's just so funny because Misty got a new Pokémon towards the end, some of Serena and Clemont's Pokémon (Braixen and Bunnelby) were shown to have evolved, Nihilego joined Lillie and Gladion's family alongside Mohn, Sophocles also had an Ampharos to keep him company with Togedemaru and Vikavolt with his work but apparently time must have completely frozen for Dawn since he last saw her.
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In my opinion, Dawn was mostly used as nostalgia bait (especially nostalgia bait since like you guys said, they didn't even update her team/give her anything new, so they were really heavily leaning into the DP nostalgia,) and advertising for BDSP and and Legends: Arceus, nothing more.
 
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Hidden Mew said:
It also felt pretty unbelievable that she went through multiple regions without catching any new Pokemon. They could have easily given her either a regular Typhlosion or the then new Hisuian Typhlosion during the Arceus special. It truly baffles me that they didn't do even that much when it would have been the easiest way to update her team, something that they were able to do with most other traveling companions when they return.
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I was also surprised that Dawn didn't get any new Pokémon. Her Quilava seemed tailor-made to have evolved into an Hisuian Typhlosion once Pokémon Legends: Arceus was revealed and Dawn was revealed to have returned. It would have been the perfect way to advertise Pokémon Legends: Arceus in the animé as well. I did like that she came to cheer for Ash during his Championship battle with Leon, though.

As for the whole series, itself, I can't say it was the worst. While it did have some of the worst episodes of the series, I'm looking at some of those two-in-one episodes early on in the series, especially the Slowking episode, it also had some of the best episodes in the series with Lillie and her family reuniting with her father Mohn and adopting the Nihilego as a part of her family.
 
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