[SPOILERS] Alola Pokemon and Alola Variant Competitive Viability (Story Free Spoilers)

[Alola]

Hello friendly friends. This thread is for Alola Pokemon competitive viability discussion. Since the games have been datamined, all stats and move-sets have been released for all of the Alolan Pokemon. What are your thoughts on how they will do competitively? Feel free to talk about how you think they will do in VGC or in Smogon's tier system (OU, UU, Ubers, etc).

Are there any combinations you are waiting to test out? Anywhere you feel Gamefreak dropped the ball?

I do ask that we refrain from discussing Ultra Beasts though. I feel like those are very story attached and can wait until the games are actually released. But if you feel as though you must absolutely make a reference, please use spoiler tags.

 

[Matleo]

in double battles could see Primarina and Alolan Ninetales together.

 

[AmphBoss]

A lack of speed across the board is a shame. A lot of mons with great promise who have been hurt by that.

However, Marshadow looks damn incredible, I'd love for it to stay in OU for a while but it will be shoved to Ubers very quickly.

 

[Envoy]

Lack of speed across the board is truly mind-boggling. Like, what the hell were the developers thinking? Like, for real though.

Biggest offender is probably Decidueye. In any other Generation, its speed would have easily hit the 100 mark, possibly surpassed it too. And yet it's stuck at Base 70, utterly crippling any offensive potential it may have had (and based on its movepool and respectable offenses, it could have had plenty.)

As is, Decidueye now works better as a support/utility Pokemon. Specifically a pivot, what with access to U-Turn and Spirit Shackle to control the flow of battle. It also works as a really good Baton Passer since it has access to both Swords Dance and Nasty Plot, Spirit Shackle shenanigans, and can heal off Substitute damage with Roost.

Speaking of Roost, a specially defensive set is....there. There are certainly worse things that it could be doing (like offense.) Something like Leaf Blade/Spirit Shackle/Roost/other wouldn't be terrible. Too bad it misses out on Leech Seed and Will-o-Wisp, which would have made this set actually viable.

Speaking of moves it would have liked, despite the priority nerf, Shadow Sneak would have been a pretty good way of getting around its speed issues. And yet...

Deci will probably make RU its home, but it will have some viability in UU and maybe even a niche or two in OU. Still....what could have been.

Of the three Starters, I feel that Primarina will go the furthest. However she has the issue of having to contend with Tapu Fini for a team slot. Prima does get a good exclusive Z-Move and Sparkling Aria at least has the same BP as Surf, but she's going to need more than that to set herself apart from Tapu Fini. Will STAB Hyper Voice be enough? I don't think so, but we'll see how the metagame plays out.

Incineroar, my least favorite of the three, is the one who has the least trouble standing out. Its stats aren't exactly innovative, but they are useful, and it doesn't really compete with Houndoom (the only other Pokemon to share its type) because its primarily physical while Houndy is special. Intimidate is a supremely boring ability, but I'll be damned if it isn't useful. Still, I see this performing about as well as Emboar. Which is to say, not very in the higher tiers, but it'll be pretty solid in lower tiers like RU and NU. I don't see it going past RU.

Speaking of the Tapus, Tapu Bulu is a monster. A choice banded Wood Hammer can put a dent on even Skarmory. It's pretty much OHKO'ing everything that doesn't resist Grass. The Tapus in general are all pretty awesome but Bulu is my personal favorite. Shame it doesn't get Play Rough, but between the insane power of Wood Hammer and the absolutely ridiculous amount of health recovery it has access to (STAB Horn Leech coming off 130 Base Attack while boosted by Grassy Terrain is crazy,) up to and including a ton of passive recovery with things like Lefties, G-Terrain, and Leech Seed, this thing will be sticking around the battlefield for awhile. And yet, it's Grassy Terrain's utility that really has me intrigued. Effectively removing Ground type moves from the battlefield can give Steels and Fires opening to unleash their onslaughts, the boosts to Grass Type moves (Giga Drain, Horn Leech, and Leaf Blade are of particular note, as is Solar beam under heavy sunlight) give Grass types and Grass move abusers in general a much needed unf, and the passive healing helps bulkier more defensive Pokemon stay alive. Not to mention Grassy Terrain can synergyze well with weather conditions such as Sun (Chlorophyll + boosted Solar Beam + no Ground weakness for Fires.) Bulu may not be the most obviously useful Pokemon, but think a little outside the box and you'll find a whole world of possibilities with this guy.

 

[AmphBoss]

Speaking of the Tapus, Tapu Bulu is a monster.

Pair it with Heatran you have a some excellent synergy going on with grass terrains effect on Earthquake.

Get sun up as well... Could be a great niche

 

[winstein]

Given that Dhelmise is the Pokemon that I am most interested in, I think I will talk about this one first. One disadvantage of this Pokemon is that it is very hard to find normally, so it will likely be a popular Pokemon that people will ask for. As for me, I will attempt to see if I can get this one. Another disadvantage is that this Pokemon is genderless, so it cannot have Egg Moves (its Egg Group is Mineral, by the way).

What makes this Pokemon the most interesting to me, is the fact that it learns Rapid Spin, and it's a Ghost-type! This is very significant because one way to stop Rapid Spin from working is to use a Ghost-type, so this Pokemon can take advantage of that by hitting them with STAB Shadow Claw (its strongest Ghost STAB, as Phantom Force can be taken advantage of). It is also backed by having high Attack, and have a good assortment of attacks to use, namely Power Whip, Earthquake, Rock Slide and Anchor Shot. It's odd to list a Steel attack as a good move, but its Steelworker powers such moves by 33%, which makes them decently powerful. Plus, Anchor Shot is a trapping move, so the opponent cannot double switch. Its Special Attack is not terrible (and has more Special coverage than Decidueye), but given that its Attack is clearly the higher stat, it doesn't make sense to not use it.

I can see that this Pokemon could utilise an Assault Vest well, making it a tank that can Rapid Spin. Its Attack is high enough to threaten a lot of spinners, so allowing it to take hits is appreciated. A Choice Band is another option, since like Tapu Bulu, it has a high Attack. Perhaps Phantom Force works well with this, given the lack of types that resist Ghost. I feel that Choice Band works even better if it could get Superpower, which I predict it will get if the move tutor will become available.

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Speaking of that, there's another fellow Grass/Ghost-type I would like to talk about. Although many would see Decidueye's flaws, mainly its below-average Speed and the lack of use with its good Special Attack, I tend to look at its merits. Of course, the flaws are still there, but I like to think that it is a unique Pokemon, since it is a better Ghost-type with Defog. Even better for Decidueye is that it is a hazard remover with recovery, which is great since it is not weak to Rock. Perhaps an interesting thing that Decidueye can only do is use Ghost Curse and recover, which is an interesting tool against stall, I predict. Certainly could be better, but I am interested to find out how it can be used with what's available right now.

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In fact, the most interesting thing this time around is how five of the Grass-type families have hazard removal. I previously mentioned Decidueye and Dhelmise, but we have Tsareena, who can Rapid Spin and has nice Physical coverage. Another is Lurantis, who is another Contrary attacker, so if Defog is reflected, at least it gets an evasion boost. There's also Kartana, who is quite powerful that it can perform a surprise hazard removal.

The only two that didn't get are Tapu Bulu, who performs support in a different way, and another is Shiinotic, who seems to be best used in Doubles with the rare Spotlight, only learned by Clefairy/Clefable and Starmie (and Spinda, but that's negligible).

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Palossand is looking to be a bit hard to use since it has some common weaknesses, but the fact that it gets recovery makes it good. It's also interesting that it is a Special attacker, as opposed to Golurk's physical. At least both Pokemon don't do the same thing, because that would be redundant.

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One thing that intrigues me about Alolan Marowak is, not only does it carry over the Thick Club bonus, it has Lightning Rod to give it 10 resistances/immunities, which is the most for a non-Steel-type. Of course it's weak to many types, but that amount of resistances is no slouch (and besides, it's another Pokemon immune to Tynamo). The fact that it gets great Physical STABs is something I like, so I feel that if you can make Alolan Marowak work, it will be very rewarding.

Thanks for reading.

 

[Envoy]

To be honest, at least at first glance, it appears that Dhelmise outclasses Decidueye in almost every way. It has usable Attack and bulk, strong offensive moves in Power Whip and Gyro Ball, and even a Steel Type version of Deci's signature move. Both get rid of hazards (R-Spin for Dhelmi and Defog for Deci) while blocking spinners themselves, but honestly R-Spin >>> Defog because the former won't get rid of the hazards you yourself have setup while the latter does. In fact, spinblocker + Defog is kinda dumb now that I think about it. Deci does have reliable recovery and U-Turn going for it though, so that's something. Spirit Shackle's typing is also a small distinguishing factor, if nothing else. While Dhelmi does hit a lot harder than Deci, Deci can at least set up a sweep. Plus it can Baton Pass. And as mentioned, Spirit Shackle + Curse + Roost guarantees a 4-turn KO on any non-normal type opponent, provided Deci can survive long enough to heal.

Deci isn't useless as a Pokemon, it has plenty of tools that it can take advantage of, but with a poor Speed stat and the existence of Dhelmise, it's going to have trouble carving a niche for itself.

Grass types in general have gone full on support this generation, with tons of them getting hazard-removal moves and Tapu Bulu with Grassy Surge. This is good because Grass is a more support-oriented type to begin with, so we may as well get all of the support options. Now if only Dhelmi and Deci had access to Will-o-Wisp...

Tsareena looks like a fun Pokemon too. I suspect she'll see a ton of use in mid and low tiers. She has surprisingly decent 72/98/98 bulk and a pretty good attack stat to abuse all of those kicking moves she has access to (no Blaze Kick though. ) Throw in Rapid Spin and a fantastic ability in Queenly Majesty and I suspect this mon will have no trouble standing out.

 

[Alola]

I think it's hilarious that Tapu Lele outclasses base form Gardevoir in literally every way.

 

[Silktree]

I think it's hilarious that Tapu Lele outclasses base form Gardevoir in literally every way.

Hilarious? It's a legendary for all intents and purposes.

 

[Alola]

Hilarious? It's a legendary for all intents and purposes.

And? Competitively speaking, comparing Pokemon involves their stats, move-sets, typing, niches, the current meta game and overall viability rather than simply being legendary/non-legendary.

 

[godiego]

why would vanilla Gardevoir even be relevant? it's Mega or Bust with Gardevoir.

 

[Envoy]

why would vanilla Gardevoir even be relevant? it's Mega or Bust with Gardevoir.

This is true. Gardy is going to be useful in whatever tier is below Tapu Lele and its own Mega form. Regular Gardevoir hasn't really been relevant in OU for a long time anyway.

 

[Alola]

That guy who won the VGC with Pachirisu made Gardevoir work for doubles during that time.

But you're all right. I just made the comment because I thought it was interesting Tapu Lele has Gardevoir's stat spread but better.

 

[Matleo]

Speaking of moves it would have liked, despite the priority nerf, Shadow Sneak would have been a pretty good way of getting around its speed issues. And yet...

In the past we had the same with Chespin, Chimchar and others if I remember corectly.
If it would have been faster then Blaziken and Venusaur people would also complain.

It probably wil get buffed in gen IV remakes. Then I could see Bounce,Fly,Phantom Force, Shadow Sneak and many other added to the moveset.

They will need to give it Shadow Sneak taking that Dazzling, Queen Majesty and Psychic terrain all work on it, becuse Decidueye is on the ground officialy.

Rememeber that Trevenant & Gourgeist are there.
Trevenant has dig, poison jab.
And Gourgeist learns some fire moves.
Both got type changing moves, maybe thats why new grass/ghost got trapping moves?
Dhelmise learns even water type moves I know, but all other are Slower then Decidueye that can beat them easy with Brave Bird.
if Tailwind will be given then Deciduey speed doubles.
Useless in a Trick Room with that stats?

Plus Deciduey learns "Curse". We also dont know maybe even it wil get the new Pecking move that can cause a burn?

 

[Envoy]

In the past we had the same with Chespin, Chimchar and others if I remember corectly.
If it would have been faster then Blaziken and Venusaur people would also complain.

It probably wil get buffed in gen IV remakes. Then I could see Bounce,Fly,Phantom Force, Shadow Sneak and many other added to the moveset.

They will need to give it Shadow Sneak taking that Dazzling, Queen Majesty and Psychic terrain all work on it, becuse Decidueye is on the ground officialy.

Rememeber that Trevenant & Gourgeist are there.
Trevenant has dig, poison jab.
And Gourgeist learns some fire moves.
Both got type changing moves, maybe thats why new grass/ghost got trapping moves?
Dhelmise learns even water type moves I know, but all other are Slower then Decidueye that can beat them easy with Brave Bird.
if Tailwind will be given then Deciduey speed doubles.
Useless in a Trick Room with that stats?

Plus Deciduey learns "Curse". We also dont know maybe even it wil get the new Pecking move that can cause a burn?

Deci's not tanky enough to reliably use Toucannon's signature move.

Deci also has no business trying to beat the other Grass/Ghosts. That would just be a bonus. What it needs to do is try to set itself apart from them, particularly Dhelmise.

Despite the nerf to priority, Shadow Sneak would still be appreciated.

Why would people have complained if Deci got a better Speed stat than Venu and Blaze? That's what we all wanted.

 

[Velvet]

Do you mind me asking how Toxapex's line and Aquanerid's line are? I'm debating between the two (Prety sure I spelt the water/bug Pokemon's name wrong)

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

Toxapex will be viable on stall teams. Araquanid is very much a wild card - its stats are mediocre except like SpDef but it's ability is really good (doubles the power of water moves, prevents burn)

 

[Velvet]

@UB-01 Kenobi; Oh? Hmmm I am missing a water type for both versions, so I'm debating about whom I want to put on my team. Might use Toxapex for one and Araquanid for another; but it also depends on what's available and when they are too.

 

[Envoy]

@UB-01 Kenobi; Oh? Hmmm I am missing a water type for both versions, so I'm debating about whom I want to put on my team. Might use Toxapex for one and Araquanid for another; but it also depends on what's available and when they are too.

View: https://youtu.be/PMEjNrG7qbw
relevant to your interests.

Back on topic, I really don't see that many of the new mons having too big of an impact on the current meta game. Most of them have either unfavorable stats or unfavorable movepools to stand up to some of the OU staples. I really don't see Scizor, Tyranitar, or the Mega Latis quaking in their boots. If anything, the Tapus will probably be the most metagame defining mons. At least in OU. Lower tiers are far more questionable.

No, if anything, it's the mechanic changes that will really shake up the meta game. The priority nerf, the new abilities for old Pokémon, the revamped mechanics for certain abilities, etc. that's where the biggest changes will occur.

That's not to say there won't be any new Pokémon good enough for OU, but I haven't really found that many that have left that impression.

UU and below will be far more interesting though.

 

[Master Cyrus]

Toxapex looks like this generation's ferrothorn.