Team Rocket: Goofy Villians, or Dangerous Villians?

[Darkraiii]

I prefer neither. Team Rocket are the worse villains in any video game or anime. In the manga they are pretty badass. But in the anime, they get stopped by a "10" year old kid who can't even beat a level 5 Snivy with a level 100 Pikachu.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

It's not being arrogant, rarely do TR get many contributions from the fandom anymore. It's literally as if rarely any people care for them, how often do you run into up-to-date Rocket art for what they are today? Fanfictions, as well? Photosets? Analysis? All around just love for the Rockets from casual fans, no matter the site, just in-general. Before BW, there was one active hub of TR focus mainly. A shipping thread and that was it really. A lot ignored them or complained about them. If you ever felt mad about BW's TR incarnation, this sounds extreme, but their fandom was horribly dead before BW. BW comes, fans come in bunches claiming to be huge fanatic of lovely charming villains. But what did they do to show their interest before then? It's like a rush of success that comes with being famous. Perception is everything.

No offense but fanarts, fanfictions etc don't seem to me like valid indication through which someone popularity can be adequatelly measured. Many people which like some character aren't even interested in such things, lot of them don't even use internet to express their interest toward their favorites only getting their daily dose of appeal and entertainment by following TV or simply aren't part of any forum because of not having time or not being interested in being part of some community. Even so perhaps we looked at different places but to my knowledge Jessie, James and Meowth based on what i saw still have respectably big following.

My point is how there doesn't exist conclusive evidence through which TR popularity can be reliably measured, especially in pokemon fandom which on global basis can be counted in millions. With small sample of fans which complain about something or someone not being able to sufficiently reflect what is general consensus as far as someone appeal and worth for show storyline goes. Drawing another parallel of some of those which do complain not necessarily being uninterested in characters, but simply being disappointed with way those they care about are handled currently.

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On side note:
Either way i don't pay attention to what other say about someone or whether writers seemingly "care" or don't about its creations, deciding to fom my own opinion and judgment about whether ill like or dislike someone based on whether i manage to experience entertainment, humor and sympathy developed for them.

Generally i was never much bothered with TR because i accepted long time ago how Jessie, James and Meowth were never intended to be serious threat persay, someone who will jeopardize Ash and other protagonist to the point of becoming groundbreaking characters which completely change course of storyline.

But more of being constant in form of sloppy, not meant to be taken seriously antagonists which pose obstacle on protagonist journey, spice things up by bringing comedy, potential clash and tension accompanied with silly tantrums and humorous scenes their presence brings,. Because without any hurdles, opposition and competition protagonist would encounter on its jopurney storyline would be severely lacking and scarce losing much of its substance.
Alongside having anime dive into their pasts, previous events and changes in life which affected them as persons, explore on their characterization and provide insight in their own hidden interests and motives they dont directly shiw in front of others. Thanks to lot of references to past, James and Jessie are probably most fleshed out characters in pokemon in that aspect with many things being revealed having rich backstories.

Portraying them as insecure and unsure of where they see themselves individuals with negative and tragic experiences in life drawing them into bad organization clearly not being malicious having caring and sincere heart deep down, but also becoming too much identified within TR organization viewing it as purpose in their life and place where they belong lacking strength and determination to differentiate themselves from it .
For some people that can be frustrating and annoying after awhhile based on their attention span and for how long they can remain interested in someone or something, but personally im still able to enjoy in JJM trio presence appreciating identity and appeal they are capable of delivering to this show.

At very least i appreciate writers attempt to freshen up and energize current limbo TR has been stucked into by offering alternatives through which their characters can be more fleshed out and developed on individual basis making us learn new things about them like it was case with Jessie contest role or exploration of James hobbies such as bottle caps, interests in events like pokeringer and unselfish, motherly side of his when being willing to help his friend in every possible way and secure to his pokemon opportunity for better life if chance arises. Making me like them more because of this on first glance small, but significant and emdearing things to follow building on realism and charm of their characters.

Or staff trying to find some balance between their quirky, squirelly behavior and never ending attempt to catch Pikachu by embellishing their role and mission through other assignments delivered by Giovanni and upper hands from Team Roicket hierarchy like its case now in XY. Strengthening somewhat their position in this show and making them look less of a joke in process regardless of ungrateful what appears to be position they are placed within. Given how none of villains will ever truly succeed and endanger others, because in order to keep show running and promote its moral values protagonists are bound to trumph and win in end.

 

[garrison-san]

In response to some of the more recent posts in this thread, I'm going to have to request that users tone down some of the general hostility toward one another. F&B infractions will be handed out if necessary.

 

[Dogasu]

I just can't take Da! Team Rocket serious at all

If Team Rocket is supposed to be so damn badass as a team, then why should the TRio be such morons?

Team Rocket are the worse villains in any video game or anime.

You all are exhibiting what I see as a fundamental misinterpretation of what the Rocket trio's role in the show is. They were never, ever meant to be taken as serious villains who serve a real threat to our heroes. Musashi, Kojirou, and Nyasu are not meant to be looked at the same way as the rest of the Rocket-Dan is.

Their role is to be funny. Their role is to provide conflict for our heroes to overcome. Their role is to entertain. They're comedic relief villains along the same lines of the antagonists in shows like Anpanman and the Time Bokan series. They're "villains" only in the loosest sense of the word.

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

 

[Team Gaara]

You all are exhibiting what I see as a fundamental misinterpretation of what the Rocket trio's role in the show is. They were never, ever meant to be taken as serious villains who serve a real threat to our heroes. Musashi, Kojirou, and Nyasu are not meant to be looked at the same way as the rest of the Rocket-Dan is.

Their role is to be funny. Their role is to provide conflict for our heroes to overcome. Their role is to entertain. They're comedic relief villains along the same lines of the antagonists in shows like Anpanman and the Time Bokan series. They're "villains" only in the loosest sense of the word.

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Regardless of what they were intended to be or are supposed to be, I prefer them when they are serious. When I think of villains, I think of them as doing villainous things not being stupid. Them being humorous at the same time is fine (ex. Team Flare or Team Galactic in the games), but when they are next to nothing but comic relief, like in the DP Saga, then that is where I have a problem.

 

[Dogasu]

I dunno, it just seems like you don't like them because they're not fulfilling a role that you seem to have headcanoned them into being.

 

[Team Gaara]

I dunno, it just seems like you don't like them because they're not fulfilling a role that you seem to have headcanoned them into being.

Not at all. I simply preferred when they were serious and doing useful stuff for the team over when they weren't.

 

[Magma Bomb]

Their role is to be funny. Their role is to provide conflict for our heroes to overcome. Their role is to entertain. They're comedic relief villains along the same lines of the antagonists in shows like Anpanman and the Time Bokan series. They're "villains" only in the loosest sense of the word.

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

We are aware of that. The real problem is in how funny some fans considers their antics, they've been doing that for so long many of us think they just got old.
A comedic villain is usually good to balance things, but these guys are the primary "threat" (for the lack of a better word) in a long runner show, their quirks are doomed to become tiresome after a few years and they've been doing that for decades. For many they are just an overplayed gag that just won't go away.

 

[G50]

After seeing some of the XY episodes so far, my opinion has changed a bit on Team Rocket's Goofiness vs being dangerous. An Equal mix of both Goofy and dangerous, while not appearing every single episode is perfect for them. Even having their own arc-plots still from time to time would be great.

 

[Dogasu]

I dunno, it just seems like you don't like them because they're not fulfilling a role that you seem to have headcanoned them into being.

Not at all. I simply preferred when they were serious and doing useful stuff for the team over when they weren't.

That's kind of the same thing. Saying that you prefer them "when they were serious and doing useful stuff for the team" is the same thing as saying that you prefer the Rocket trio when they're not acting anything like the Rocket trio.

but these guys are the primary "threat"

No they aren't.

 

[Magma Bomb]

but these guys are the primary "threat"

No they aren't.

I said primary threat for the lack of a better word, you were not supposed to interpret this sentence in a literal sense.
By that I meant they are the guys that antagonize Ash's group for 99% of the series, even if they are not meant to be taken seriously. There are bigger threats way more dangerous than the TRio, but it is a rare occurrence and these guys are so recurring they can be considered the primary bad guys in a sense.

 

[Team Gaara]

I dunno, it just seems like you don't like them because they're not fulfilling a role that you seem to have headcanoned them into being.

Not at all. I simply preferred when they were serious and doing useful stuff for the team over when they weren't.

That's kind of the same thing. Saying that you prefer them "when they were serious and doing useful stuff for the team" is the same thing as saying that you prefer the Rocket trio when they're not acting anything like the Rocket trio.

The main reason I said "no" was because you brought up headcannons, which has nothing to do with my opinion in this case. I haven't headcannoned Team Rocket into any role.

My opinion was that I preferred the Rocket Trio when they, in your words, "are not acting anything like the Rocket Trio". Which is true. I was just answering the OP's question that asked which Team Rocket I preferred. It has nothing to do with any kind of headcannon or anything, it's just that I like them more when they are acting serious. I personally don't think there's a problem with me liking that attitude of Team Rocket, even though those aren't their intended personalities.

It seems to me that you're saying that I can't like Team Rocket's serious personalities because those aren't the personalities they are intended to have.

 

[Soniman]

If BW TR were seen as not acting TR in anyway, then I personally find it kind of sad that I preferred them the most when the acted nothing like their previous selves.

 

[gritty stunfisk]

I really dislike the either/or, 100% goofy or 100% villainous distinction. Ultimately my issue with them doesn't lie in serious or goofy, it lies in how they are characterised. XY's done it better than BW did so far, but even then it's not hard to open up a random OS / Johto / even Hoenn episode and see that they actually have personalities - Jessie's bossy, James is submissive/'feminine', etc. Their mottos were way more personalised too instead of having the same dumb stock footage repeated over and over. Scenes with them on their own weren't just limited to 'hatch a plan, stare evilly at the screen' - they argued with each other, talked, they were actually people. So I don't mind if they aren't totally goofy or if they aren't totally villainous - in fact it'd be cool to see them with goals other than pathetic antagonists, which they used to have, like bottlecaps and contests and stuff - what I do mind is them being extremely one dimensional either way.

 

[Dogasu]

I personally don't think there's a problem with me liking that attitude of Team Rocket, even though those aren't their intended personalities.

As long as you can recognize that BW Rockets are different from the regular Rocket trio - something I hadn't seen you acknowledge up until this post - then I agree that no, there isn't a problem.

But I also don't see a problem with calling people out on the very basic misinterpretations of these characters that seems to be so rampant around these parts.

 

[Team Gaara]

As long as you can recognize that BW Rockets are different from the regular Rocket trio - something I hadn't seen you acknowledge up until this post - then I agree that no, there isn't a problem.

But I also don't see a problem with calling people out on the very basic misinterpretations of these characters that seems to be so rampant around these parts.

I honestly don't understand the reason I had to "acknowledge" something so obvious. Was the fact that this thread exists not evidence enough that Team Rocket from BW are not the same than the original ones? I know very well that they are different, hence why I answered stating that I preferred one to the other. I have been watching this show since it began, and I am quite aware of these things.

I didn't misinterpret anything. You only saw something in my posts, apparently, as a misinterpretation. All I did was give my opinion, which is what the OP was asking. I didn't say Team Rocket should act one way over another, just that I liked them better when they were "not acting in the way they were intended to act". Because I, personally, like them better that way.

 

[Dogasu]

"I didn't misinterpret anything."

If Team Rocket is supposed to be so damn badass as a team, then why should the TRio be such morons?

You all are exhibiting what I see as a fundamental misinterpretation of what the Rocket trio's role in the show is. They were never, ever meant to be taken as serious villains who serve a real threat to our heroes. Musashi, Kojirou, and Nyasu are not meant to be looked at the same way as the rest of the Rocket-Dan is.

Their role is to be funny. Their role is to provide conflict for our heroes to overcome. Their role is to entertain. They're comedic relief villains along the same lines of the antagonists in shows like Anpanman and the Time Bokan series. They're "villains" only in the loosest sense of the word.

And now I feel like we're going in circles.

 

[Team Gaara]

"I didn't misinterpret anything."

You all are exhibiting what I see as a fundamental misinterpretation of what the Rocket trio's role in the show is. They were never, ever meant to be taken as serious villains who serve a real threat to our heroes. Musashi, Kojirou, and Nyasu are not meant to be looked at the same way as the rest of the Rocket-Dan is.

Their role is to be funny. Their role is to provide conflict for our heroes to overcome. Their role is to entertain. They're comedic relief villains along the same lines of the antagonists in shows like Anpanman and the Time Bokan series. They're "villains" only in the loosest sense of the word.

And now I feel like we're going in circles.

Again, I did not misinterpret anything. Team Rocket themselves as a whole make themselves out to be that way. They talk about how they have branches in every region and whatnot. They diss other teams and boost themselves up. Well if they say they're so legit, why not be portrayed that way? Why just be comic relief? So when they are backing up thier talk, that's what I like to see. That's all I'm saying.